Dulfy - SWTOR Celebration Cantina Q&A on Group Content

[AlrikFassbauer]

Funny how someone like Blizzard are/were so open about their new expansion and revealed 200% more than Bioware did last year.

 

Bruahaha.

 

Message board explosions are quickly forgotten.

 

Well, there are still today posts about a certain Slot Machine ...

Edited July 19, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[rklontz]

Bruahaha.

 

 

 

Well, there are still today posts about a certain Slot Machine ...

 

pretty sure he is referencing wow. they even have subforums that devs participate in and a test server dedicated the their xpac. Not saying wow is a superior game but it is managed better than swtor has ever been

[Exly]

I do not blame them.

Way to go players.

 

I touched a stove once, and it was hot. Does that mean that I should never touch a stove again, or does that mean that I should learn for the experience and use proper caution before touching one again.

 

Just because they got burned once does not mean that they will always get burned in the future. The truth is that they failed to deliver on what they said they would do, and that failure lead to them taking some heat.

 

Since then they have given us several dates. They gave us the dates for the release of KotFE, and for all of the chapter releases, and when they met their release dates they received no grief for that.

 

On the other hand, they gave us multiple release dates for EC, and though they took some heat for being wrong the first couple of times, they managed to deal with the negative feedback.

 

To suggest now that they can't even give us an answer on any question relating to operations because they got burned once because they missed a deadline is just silly. It is the kind of lie that people tell themselves and learn to believe even though they know that it is not true, but still they take it on faith that they are right.

 

The problem is that when they tell us that lie, we see it for what it is, and we let them know that we see it. If that makes them uncomfortable, then so be it.

 

So, with that said, maybe it's time for them to stop lying to themselves, and to us, and start letting us know what is going on, and stop telling us truths that are only true from their point of view, but are true for everyone, players and devs alike.

[AlienEyeTX]

I touched a stove once, and it was hot. Does that mean that I should never touch a stove again, or does that mean that I should learn for the experience and use proper caution before touching one again.

 

Just because they got burned once does not mean that they will always get burned in the future. The truth is that they failed to deliver on what they said they would do, and that failure lead to them taking some heat.

 

Since then they have given us several dates. They gave us the dates for the release of KotFE, and for all of the chapter releases, and when they met their release dates they received no grief for that.

 

On the other hand, they gave us multiple release dates for EC, and though they took some heat for being wrong the first couple of times, they managed to deal with the negative feedback.

 

To suggest now that they can't even give us an answer on any question relating to operations because they got burned once because they missed a deadline is just silly. It is the kind of lie that people tell themselves and learn to believe even though they know that it is not true, but still they take it on faith that they are right.

 

The problem is that when they tell us that lie, we see it for what it is, and we let them know that we see it. If that makes them uncomfortable, then so be it.

 

So, with that said, maybe it's time for them to stop lying to themselves, and to us, and start letting us know what is going on, and stop telling us truths that are only true from their point of view, but are true for everyone, players and devs alike.

 

I think the excuse is pretty flimsy. It is up to them to manage their image. Sticking their head in the sand because of a few butthurt individuals is just bad form. If they can't figure that out, they need to hire a PR firm to help them get back on track.

 

But, to address one of your main points: Yes, they have announced dates for updates and expansions. What was stated in the Q&A is that they will not pre-announce content. Again, this is a big fail, but I just wanted to clear that up.

[Lenlo]

A simple yes or no answer would do wonders. Are we getting new substantial group content in the next six months?

[Exly]

I think the excuse is pretty flimsy. It is up to them to manage their image. Sticking their head in the sand because of a few butthurt individuals is just bad form. If they can't figure that out, they need to hire a PR firm to help them get back on track.

 

But, to address one of your main points: Yes, they have announced dates for updates and expansions. What was stated in the Q&A is that they will not pre-announce content. Again, this is a big fail, but I just wanted to clear that up.

 

So you don't think that the monthly chapters or EC count as content then. How interesting.

[IanArgent]

So you don't think that the monthly chapters or EC count as content then. How interesting.

 

I was about to say something sarcastic, but AlienEyeTX is a pretty fair guy - I don't think I've seen him argue that KotFE chapters are not content.

 

And for that matter, they tease content all the time - witness the recent fan-dance around KotET, and before that KotFE's release schedule was known well in advance. What they don't do is give implementation details out - we had no knowledge of what the Star Fortresses would be prior to KotFE launch, and until it popped up on the PTS, we didn't knwo much about how TEC was tructured.

 

Speaking of TEC, while the response was muted to the multiple-month slippage, it was there. On the other hand, they solicited community feedback for the rewards, and apparently took them into consideration, given the relative uselessness of the gear obtainable.

 

Just because it's not content you like, doesn't mean it's not content.

[ArenCordial]

So you don't think that the monthly chapters or EC count as content then. How interesting.

 

Can we please stop the round robin of 'this is content/not content' ? Or if some one uses 'we' can we just interpret that the speaker means 'myself and like minded people.' Too many threads have been pointlessly derailed by this sort of thing.

 

Yes KotFE chapters are content as is TEC but for the purposes of this thread people are clearly talking about traditional group content such as Flashpoints, Operations, and Warzones.

Edited July 19, 2016 by ArenCordial

[Rrusalka]

Can we please stop the round robin of 'this is content/not content' ? Or if some one uses 'we' can we just interpret that the speaker means 'myself and like minded people.' Too many threads have been pointlessly derailed by this sort of thing.

 

Yes KotFE chapters are content as is TEC but for the purposes of this thread people are clearly talking about traditional group content such as Flashpoints, Operations, and Warzones.

 

 

It is content it reminds me a lot of GW2's Living Story. I've enjoyed some and really hope at some point I can see where my choice mattered.

[IanArgent]

Can we please stop the round robin of 'this is content/not content' ? Or if some one uses 'we' can we just interpret that the speaker means 'myself and like minded people.' Too many threads have been pointlessly derailed by this sort of thing.

 

Yes KotFE chapters are content as is TEC but for the purposes of this thread people are clearly talking about traditional group content such as Flashpoints, Operations, and Warzones.

 

Since the thread title says Group Content, I'd agree. There has been a dearth of group content. We got some PvP, but no group PvE but the HSF, and those are marginal, I'm OK with ruling them out.

 

The thing is, group PvE content is the hardest type of content to develop. and a lot of what mighthave gone to developing group content went into TEC instead. Now, I assert that TEC was built to lead into new group content, though probably not in the "classic" style. But that's all based on some pretty tenuous reading of tea leaves. So we have to wait. And see.

[MikeTheDuke]

All of this makes sense, to a point. Yes, I understand the community is screaming for things, they take their time and they deliver it. The issue I believe is around communications with the public. Remember "better than cross server", what have we received, 2 new PvP maps and PvP instances on servers, I am sure fans are curious if this is what they meant.

 

When I read the things they said about group content and it being asked multiple times and them saying the same thing. They are saying there are people working on it right now, and this reflects what was said in the producer live stream, they are working on more group content, but what does that mean. Does Star Fortress = Group Content? It is Heroic 2+ and can be played by 2 or more people but it can also be played by well geared players and decent companion when you have access to the little additions sprinkled through the mission. Eternal Championship has a Heroic component as well which can be grouped with.

 

Our last 2 operations were 2 December 2014, hard to believe it was that long ago. Yes, they changed the operations levels and removed some nightmare mode operations on 20 October 2015 but this isn't new operations, Prior to that, we receive operations on a fair regular cadence,

* Eternity Vault, Karagga's Palace (20 Dec 2011)

* Explosive Conflict (12 Apr 2012)

* Terror from Beyond (26 Sep 2012)

* Scum and Villainy (9 Apr 2013)

* Dread Fortress, Dread Palace (1 Oct 2013)

* The Ravagers, Temple of Sacrifice (2 Dec 2014)

 

Between those we have also received additional Flahpoints and introductions with Nightmare modes and Hard Modes. Prior to now, we have had 14 months, we are now approaching 20 months since our last operation, I think it is a valid question we ask. We received an operation boss on Ziost, even having an operation boss on Odessen or Zakuul would be have scratched our ops itch, briefly but it would still help.

 

Their answers were typical of them saying we are working on lots of things operations are just a small area which we are working on. People don't want dates, we don't need specifics to know the operation, but a simple, Yes, we are working on 2 new operations which we will be looking at releasing after Eternal Throne release, or anything. Even if they said we are planning on releasing some reworked EV and KP nightmare modes to replace the ones we removed, people would be happier with that. These are evasive answers, and blaming the backlash on the release of Shadow of Revan on why we don't get details any more, as has been said, poor excuse considering they have been giving release dates for things and rolling changing them since the release of Fallen Empire, like Eternal Championship, Guss recruitment and the last chapter to name a few.

 

People ask for different things yes, but if we say, right now we are adding more story content, we will work on operations and end game after we have completed this, or we are looking at PvP. Since the release of Ziost we have had very vague communication, all of this is within Bioware's power to correct and they still don't need to spoil it, give away too much information in telling us something to, 1) get us excited about what is coming, 2) keep our curiosity satisfied.

 

New Classes, don't speak of balance issue and us not liking it because there is a lack of balance with new classes. New classes aren't coming because they have made their bed and much lie in it as they have given each class a unique voice, and therefore any new class would need that, to they also prevent the new class from going back to older planets and older group content which too is full voiced and would need the new voice actor's voice to be recorded for all the old content. The one area of the game that drew many people in, is also its Achilles heal when it comes to new classes. There are ways, you release a new class that is good and fun and has their own origin story Level 1 through 60, I think the fans would love it. But this will NOT be happening, EVER. And I will humbly eat my own words if I am wrong.

 

[merovejec]

the game could be so good. But usually ends up disappointing or stringing you along with a promise of a carrot you actually want but never get.

 

This ^^

[merovejec]

People don't want dates, we don't need specifics to know the operation, but a simple, Yes, we are working on 2 new operations which we will be looking at releasing after Eternal Throne release, or anything. Even if they said we are planning on releasing some reworked EV and KP nightmare modes to replace the ones we removed, people would be happier with that.

 

Yup, these are exactly my thoughts. BIOWARE dont be afraid to tell us what is in works. People are now so hopeless that if you do say YES we are making an ops, we wont care about the date! (well we do but we waited so long a few months more is fine for us).

 

Just say, yes or no and not **** like, people MAY be working on it, here and there, what kind of statements are those??

[DarthDymond]

Thing is, sometimes stuff that's "in the works" end up getting dropped altogether if it doesn't work out or higher-level plans change - the Infiltrator ship in GSF comes to mind. And officially announcing "we're working on [X] right now" is going be interpreted as them promising [X].

 

Seems like they're avoiding "promising" anything until it crosses the line of "yes, we are definitely implementing this" even before we get to the question of giving a release date.

[AlienEyeTX]

So you don't think that the monthly chapters or EC count as content then. How interesting.

 

Of course they are. But, while they may have announced the content itself, you might recall that they really didn't give any details until it was ready to go.

 

I'm just going by what I read. Getting insight into their communications "policy" was not very helpful. It makes them seem very amateurish.

[TUXs]

Utter nonsense.

That entire Q&A was utter nonsense. Blaming the customers?! Making faces? Seriously? These are the "professionals" working on this game? Gimme a break lol. I have faith in them being FAR better than this "interview" makes them appear...there's no chance this interview is authentic. Not only is this not directly from Bioware, it's not even being posted by the source of the interview...it's the same as "my friends dad says..."...no credibility, especially given how childish the replies were.

[DarthDymond]

That entire Q&A was utter nonsense. Blaming the customers?! Making faces? Seriously? These are the "professionals" working on this game? Gimme a break lol. I have faith in them being FAR better than this "interview" makes them appear...there's no chance this interview is authentic. Not only is this not directly from Bioware, it's not even being posted by the source of the interview...it's the same as "my friends dad says..."...no credibility, especially given how childish the replies were.

Based on my experience going to a couple of the NYC Cantina Tours, I suspect these were the conversations the devs were having over drinks with the attendees - just sitting around tables socializing and chatting after the prepared remarks and presentations were over. Which was fun in person, don't get me wrong, but they're not going to be giving out polished responses or earth-shattering news.

[TUXs]

Based on my experience going to a couple of the NYC Cantina Tours, I suspect these were the conversations the devs were having over drinks with the attendees - just sitting around tables socializing and chatting after the prepared remarks and presentations were over. Which was fun in person, don't get me wrong, but they're not going to be giving out polished responses or earth-shattering news.

Good to know! I think it's great that they "hang out" with the elites like you...explains a lot actually. Maybe they should consider listening to feedback from us 'normal' folk too though...

[casirabit]

So you don't think that the monthly chapters or EC count as content then. How interesting.

 

Solo content yea. Group content no. Even if EC has "a group one" there is nothing in rewards for them. BW has essentially taken all the content and made it solo and therefore for people who like to group up they either have to run the content twice or do it solo and for a lot of my guild that just isn't going to work. Before hand they had other missions you could group up and do while doing your story so people could do stuff together. Now no.

 

Do not say it heroics. Please how many times do you have to keep running a heroic and if that is the only group content they can do better but will they? I doubt it.

 

I get it that a lot of players only play to solo but there are also a lot of players that play with their friends, significant others and guilds that were used to doing things together and BW essentially yank the group activities out from under them.

 

For some people not a big deal, but for my guild yes. We used to log on daily when we started playing now it has come down to maybe once or twice a month and some of them have dropped their subs because of it.

Edited July 20, 2016 by casirabit

[UberSamoyed]

There's got to be some sort of cost/benefit analysis break point where the need to retain subs overrides the potential negativity and stress of releasing news about an Op. I would think that we have long passed it, but that's just my subjective opinion. Edited July 20, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[Mowermanx]

Thing is, sometimes stuff that's "in the works" end up getting dropped altogether if it doesn't work out or higher-level plans change - the Infiltrator ship in GSF comes to mind. And officially announcing "we're working on [X] right now" is going be interpreted as them promising [X].

 

Seems like they're avoiding "promising" anything until it crosses the line of "yes, we are definitely implementing this" even before we get to the question of giving a release date.

 

That's a bit of a stretch, if its on the board or maybe even an idea in an advanced stage, I could go along with that theory, but I see no harm in letting some of their plans, ones that are actually being worked on being made public.

Personally, i'm with someone who said earlier that there is no set plan in place, probably ideas and maybe even a mud-map, but they are not going to come out and say that for any number of reasons.

They mapped out this story stuff for x amount of time and nothing else substantial is going to happen till at least that is done with... This is pretty well the only official answer they did give late last year, or was it early this year? Either way, thats what was said and its up to people to make their decision based on that.

Unless something big happens at the studio, I can't see them being forthcoming with any other info anytime soon.

[Celise]

Apparently, this was a private Q&A that someone sent to Dulfy.

 

 

Let the hate flow through you.

 

Apparently? Confirm it is authentic first.