SW:Rebels Season III

[Wolfninjajedi]

Technically it's George Lucas/Old canon.

 

All the lightsaber Kyber crystal stuff from the Clone Wars and Star Wars Rebels was from George Lucas' original ideas. Filoni and crew have just been implementing them.

 

It's also been brought up in interviews recently that Kyber crystals might be playing a part in Rogue One as well due to the Death Star and the jedi planet Jeddha.

 

I personally prefer the old expanded universe version, but the discussion of the current lightsaber crystals is being attributed to Disney and the new Lucasfilm, but it's based on George Lucas' original ideas according to them.

 

Ya I know, but the way it's being implemented...eh...but I'm sure I'll get over it.

 

I'm mostly gonna stick with Legends anyway, since I have a ton of Sourcebooks/novels/comics and the like.

[t-darko]

Seems like Saw gonna join us when season 3 picks up again!! Edited December 22, 2016 by t-darko

[fishpeople]

Seems like Saw gonna join us when season 3 picks up again!!

 

Saw that, It looks like it'll be a good episode.

[phalczen]

So, after watching the episode from dec 10 (S3E11 "Visions and Voices"), I was thinking ...

we know from Rogue One that the alliance doesn't really get any help from Obi Wan Kenobi prior to Senator Organa sending Princess Leia on the mission to retrieve him. Heck the alliance doesn't even know his name. Yet the episode seems to imply the Ghost crew (specifically Kanan/Ezra) must reach him before Maul. It seems like a final confrontation between Obi Wan and Maul is inevitable, and yet it also seems doubtful that Kanan and Ezra would encounter Obi Wan prior to the events of ANH. Otherwise Kenobi would have alerted Luke to their presence or alerted them to Luke's presence. Which then makes me wonder, either their mission to stop Maul from finding Obi Wan first fails, or my assumption about a final confrontation between Kenobi and Maul is wrong.

 

 

Thoughts?

[MadDutchman]

So, after watching the episode from dec 10 (S3E11 "Visions and Voices"), I was thinking ...

we know from Rogue One that the alliance doesn't really get any help from Obi Wan Kenobi prior to Senator Organa sending Princess Leia on the mission to retrieve him. Heck the alliance doesn't even know his name. Yet the episode seems to imply the Ghost crew (specifically Kanan/Ezra) must reach him before Maul. It seems like a final confrontation between Obi Wan and Maul is inevitable, and yet it also seems doubtful that Kanan and Ezra would encounter Obi Wan prior to the events of ANH. Otherwise Kenobi would have alerted Luke to their presence or alerted them to Luke's presence. Which then makes me wonder, either their mission to stop Maul from finding Obi Wan first fails, or my assumption about a final confrontation between Kenobi and Maul is wrong.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

There are other possibilities. For example, Kanan and Ezra aren't a part of the Rebellion anymore.

 

I think a showdown between Maul and Obi-wan is inevitable, however I don't think Kanan will survive it, and Im guessing Ezra might come a little unglued as a result.

 

My wild theory anyway.

[phalczen]

There are other possibilities. For example, Kanan and Ezra aren't a part of the Rebellion anymore.

 

I think a showdown between Maul and Obi-wan is inevitable, however I don't think Kanan will survive it, and Im guessing Ezra might come a little unglued as a result.

 

My wild theory anyway.

 

It does seem like a foregone conclusion that Ezra, Kanan, and Maul will not survive past the end of Rebels. But how, if at all, does Kenobi fit into that ending? I must admit, I expected that Maul's end would come at the hand of Vader, and that his holocronic vision was supposed to be about Vader not Kenobi... his line at the end of that episode, "He is still alive" I believed to be referring to Vader surviving the destruction of the sith temple on Malachor. Kenobi defeated Maul, yes, but Vader is at Sidious' side rather than him, so he stands more to gain by defeating Vader. Are they all killed in that final confrontation? Killed by Maul on their way to find Kenobi, and then Kenobi defeats Maul, ensuring that Yoda and Bail Organa are the only ones who know his whereabouts and Vader doesn't sense Kenobi's presence again until ANH? Does that mean Rebels is over after this season, or simply goes on without Force Users?

Edited December 23, 2016 by phalczen

[MadDutchman]

It does seem like a foregone conclusion that Ezra, Kanan, and Maul will not survive past the end of Rebels. But how, if at all, does Kenobi fit into that ending? I must admit, I expected that Maul's end would come at the hand of Vader, and that his holocronic vision was supposed to be about Vader not Kenobi... his line at the end of that episode, "He is still alive" I believed to be referring to Vader surviving the destruction of the sith temple on Malachor. Kenobi defeated Maul, yes, but Vader is at Sidious' side rather than him, so he stands more to gain by defeating Vader. Are they all killed in that final confrontation? Killed by Maul on their way to find Kenobi, and then Kenobi defeats Maul, ensuring that Yoda and Bail Organa are the only ones who know his whereabouts and Vader doesn't sense Kenobi's presence again until ANH? Does that mean Rebels is over after this season, or simply goes on without Force Users?

 

I doubt they'll kill off Ezra, this being Disney and all. They'll most like find some way to make him disappear so they can bring him back later like Ahsoka

[jovianus]

I doubt they'll kill off Ezra, this being Disney and all. They'll most like find some way to make him disappear so they can bring him back later like Ahsoka

 

I take it you haven't seen Rogue One.

 

Now yes, since Rebels is on their kids channel he probably won't die onscreen, that's not the same thing as him living in the OT though.

[MadDutchman]

I take it you haven't seen Rogue One.

 

Now yes, since Rebels is on their kids channel he probably won't die onscreen, that's not the same thing as him living in the OT though.

 

Considering the number of times Filoni has stated that there is room to keep Kanan, Ezra and Ahasoka alive for the OT, I suspect they'll keep atleast Ezra (and probably Ahsoka, based on Filoni's hints) around, one way or another.

 

I haven't seen rogue one yet, but as you noted, kids channel does make a difference. It's pretty obvious he isn't around in the Rebellion for the OT, but that's not the same as dead.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Which them even living, makes Leia's line.

 

"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."

 

Kind of contradicting.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[jovianus]

Which them even living, makes Leia's line.

 

"Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope."

 

Kind of contradicting.

 

Yes, it would be pretty much silly and nonsensical for all these Jedi and rebel heroes to still be around but just..apparently decided to retire right at the critical time in the fight against the Empire and the Sith.

 

And yeah people can handwave and make excuses and mumble about 'certain point of view...they weren't really Jedi then..something something.' but that's really only apt in the sense that Obi-Wans original speech about 'certain point of view' was in itself meant cover up the retcon from Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader being two completely seperate people in ANH to being one and the same in ESB script rewrites.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yes, it would be pretty much silly and nonsensical for all these Jedi and rebel heroes to still be around but just..apparently decided to retire right at the critical time in the fight against the Empire and the Sith.

 

And yeah people can handwave and make excuses and mumble about 'certain point of view...they weren't really Jedi then..something something.' but that's really only apt in the sense that Obi-Wans original speech about 'certain point of view' was in itself meant cover up the retcon from Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader being two completely seperate people in ANH to being one and the same in ESB script rewrites.

 

Yeah I don't really buy the whole "Oh they don't call themselves Jedi, so they aren't Jedi."

 

Yeah no....the Empire wouldn't care, the galaxy wouldn't care. If they wield lightsabers and use The Force and were apart of the Jedi Order...then they are Jedi.

 

They might not call themselves Jedi, they might say to others they aren't Jedi anymore...but guess what? No one would give a damn.

 

That BS about "Oh they can survive, because they don't call themselves Jedi!"

 

WHAT?....You really think the Empire or Vader would give a damn about what they call themselves? Hell no. That has to be the dumbest excuse ever.

Edited December 24, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[MadDutchman]

Yeah I don't really buy the whole "Oh they don't call themselves Jedi, so they aren't Jedi."

 

Yeah no....the Empire wouldn't care, the galaxy wouldn't care. If they wield lightsabers and use The Force and were apart of the Jedi Order...then they are Jedi.

 

They might not call themselves Jedi, they might say to others they aren't Jedi anymore...but guess what? No one would give a damn.

 

That BS about "Oh they can survive, because they don't call themselves Jedi!"

 

WHAT?....You really think the Empire or Vader would give a damn about what they call themselves? Hell no. That has to be the dumbest excuse ever.

 

They can survive, but not because of what they say, but what they do.

 

If they go into hiding, don't draw attention to themselves and otherwise don't act like Jedi, it is very possible that they will still be alive. Sure, the Empire would still happily kill them, but they'd have to find them first.

 

Where it becomes problematic is if they are still actively participating in the Rebellion, then Leia's line becomes weird. To the best of my knowledge, Hera is the only one confirmed to stil lbe active during ANH time frame.

 

As for the other often quoted last of the Jedi line by Yoda, this pretty much only means Kanan needs to die. Neither Ahsoka (assuming she is still alive somewhere) or Ezra are Jedi by Yoda's definition.

[Wolfninjajedi]

They can survive, but not because of what they say, but what they do.

 

If they go into hiding, don't draw attention to themselves and otherwise don't act like Jedi, it is very possible that they will still be alive. Sure, the Empire would still happily kill them, but they'd have to find them first.

 

Where it becomes problematic is if they are still actively participating in the Rebellion, then Leia's line becomes weird. To the best of my knowledge, Hera is the only one confirmed to stil lbe active during ANH time frame.

 

As for the other often quoted last of the Jedi line by Yoda, this pretty much only means Kanan needs to die. Neither Ahsoka (assuming she is still alive somewhere) or Ezra are Jedi by Yoda's definition.

 

By the Jedi Order, Ahsoka and Ezra would be classified as Jedi, Kanan was Knighted and he took on a Padawan in Ezra, so yes...he would be a Jedi Padawan, not officially apart of the Order since it's gone but he would still be one. Just like Luke was a Jedi, not officially apart of the Order since it wasn't around...but he was still a Jedi Knight at the end of ROTJ.

 

Ahsoka would be a former Jedi, but a Jedi none the less and I hate how they went with the vauge ********, just confirm one way or the other, don't be a copout idiot.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[MadDutchman]

By the Jedi Order, Ahsoka and Ezra would be classified as Jedi, Kanan was Knighted and he took on a Padawan in Ezra, so yes...he would be a Jedi Padawan, not officially apart of the Order since it's gone but he would still be one. Just like Luke was a Jedi, not officially apart of the Order since it wasn't around...but he was still a Jedi Knight at the end of ROTJ.

 

Ahsoka would be a former Jedi, but a Jedi none the less and I hate how they went with the vauge ********, just confirm one way or the other, don't be a copout idiot.

 

"A Jedi, you may yet be" Yoda to Ezra. In other words, as a Padawan, he is NOT a Jedi

 

"So I am a Jedi"

"Not yet, one thing remains, Vader" Luke and Yoda

 

 

You may not like it, but Kanan is the only one considered a full Jedi by Yoda. Thus, he is the only one who needs to die.

[Wolfninjajedi]

"A Jedi, you may yet be" Yoda to Ezra. In other words, as a Padawan, he is NOT a Jedi

 

"So I am a Jedi"

"Not yet, one thing remains, Vader" Luke and Yoda

 

 

You may not like it, but Kanan is the only one considered a full Jedi by Yoda. Thus, he is the only one who needs to die.

 

That was all the way in Season 1, we are up to Season 3 now, he's a Jedi Padawan at this point if not sooner. But yes, I guess so. We'll see what is what.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[jovianus]

"A Jedi, you may yet be" Yoda to Ezra. In other words, as a Padawan, he is NOT a Jedi

 

"So I am a Jedi"

"Not yet, one thing remains, Vader" Luke and Yoda

 

 

You may not like it, but Kanan is the only one considered a full Jedi by Yoda. Thus, he is the only one who needs to die.

 

And it's still just tiresome nonsense and arbitrary justification because people would rather trample all over the original story than accept that their pet characters bit the dust.

 

It's clear and unambiguous that Yoda meant that Luke and Leia were it, period, no more Jedi, no hope for anything without them.

 

But all these fanboys and people with their pet OC's want to find wiggle room and excuses to go, "Actally, there were tons of random *** Jedi and ex-Jedi and Padawans and Force Users and this that and the other running around, tons of which Yoda was perfectly well aware of...but they weren't calling themselves Jedi, or didn't have the secret decoder ring, or were behind on their dues, so therefore Yoda just sort of glossed over them when he said Luke and Leia were all that was left."

[FlavivsAetivs]

Yeah no....the Empire wouldn't care, the galaxy wouldn't care. If they wield lightsabers and use The Force and were apart of the Jedi Order...then they are Jedi.

 

Proof of point: the Jedi Shadows. Officially, they didn't exist, they weren't on the roster of the order and their existence was denied, but they were Jedi Sentinels who sought out dark side threats (originally they hunted Sith).

 

Expanded universe now, so non-canon, but gets my point across.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited December 26, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[DarthMetalJoey]

the ghost crew will be sent to alderaan where they will be waiting for leia to show up with obi-wan ... when all of a sudden ...BOOM

 

idk xD

[MadDutchman]

And it's still just tiresome nonsense and arbitrary justification because people would rather trample all over the original story than accept that their pet characters bit the dust.

 

It's clear and unambiguous that Yoda meant that Luke and Leia were it, period, no more Jedi, no hope for anything without them.

 

But all these fanboys and people with their pet OC's want to find wiggle room and excuses to go, "Actally, there were tons of random *** Jedi and ex-Jedi and Padawans and Force Users and this that and the other running around, tons of which Yoda was perfectly well aware of...but they weren't calling themselves Jedi, or didn't have the secret decoder ring, or were behind on their dues, so therefore Yoda just sort of glossed over them when he said Luke and Leia were all that was left."

 

To be fair, it was clear and unambiguous that Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader were 2 totally different people at one time too.

 

Things change, and this particular change has been ongoing for decades. The new canon seems to be following through with what the old EU was doing.

[psandak]

legit question: did Kanan and Ezra ever wield lightsabers in front of Leia during that episode of Rebels? I honestly do not recall. If not, then for all Leia knows Kanan and Ezra are just Alliance soldiers. Leia and Asohka never crossed paths in the show. So maybe Leia believed that Obi Wan was her only hope as being the last Jedi that could come to the Alliance's assistance.

[DarthDymond]

legit question: did Kanan and Ezra ever wield lightsabers in front of Leia during that episode of Rebels? I honestly do not recall. If not, then for all Leia knows Kanan and Ezra are just Alliance soldiers. Leia and Asohka never crossed paths in the show. So maybe Leia believed that Obi Wan was her only hope as being the last Jedi that could come to the Alliance's assistance.

I think Leia's line still works fine even if she did think there were other Jedi around - Obi-Wan was an accomplished war hero and someone her father trusted completely, "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope" doesn't necessarily mean "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're the last Jedi" in the context of her message, it just meant "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're the only person I believe has a shot at finishing this mission and saving our collective behinds".

 

Yoda, who we're positing should be infallible with respect to how many Jedi are left in the galaxy (a reasonable assumption given the narrative) is the one with the line that is hard to reconcile, when he says "the last of the Jedi, will you be" to Luke. Personally, I don't have a huge problem with the explanation that he sees Luke as the only one who can carry on the legacy of the Jedi Order, even if there are other Jedi-trained Force Users out there as long as there is a plausible reason why Yoda wouldn't consider them 'true Jedi' - but I can certainly understand someone calling it a big ol' a retcon if that is what ends up happening. If Ezra ends up becoming a student of the Bendu (with its philosophy of being the 'middle', between the Dark and the Light) or something like that, I would find that a fair reason why Yoda wouldn't 'count' him as a Jedi for purposes of his conversation with Luke.

 

But if it is a retcon that they go with ... I don't really see what the issue is - as others have said, there was never any sacrosanct 'pure' story at the heart of the Star Wars mythos, even as the original trilogy came out it was being retconned and revised repeatedly.

Edited December 27, 2016 by DarthDymond

[MadDutchman]

I think Leia's line still works fine even if she did think there were other Jedi around - Obi-Wan was an accomplished war hero and someone her father trusted completely, "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope" doesn't necessarily mean "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're the last Jedi" in the context of her message, it just meant "Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi, you're the only person I believe has a shot at finishing this mission and saving our collective behinds".

 

Yoda, who we're positing should be infallible with respect to how many Jedi are left in the galaxy (a reasonable assumption given the narrative) is the one with the line that is hard to reconcile, when he says "the last of the Jedi, will you be" to Luke. Personally, I don't have a huge problem with the explanation that he sees Luke as the only one who can carry on the legacy of the Jedi Order, even if there are other Jedi-trained Force Users out there as long as there is a plausible reason why Yoda wouldn't consider them 'true Jedi' - but I can certainly understand someone calling it a big ol' a retcon if that is what ends up happening. If Ezra ends up becoming a student of the Bendu (with its philosophy of being the 'middle', between the Dark and the Light) or something like that, I would find that a fair reason why Yoda wouldn't 'count' him as a Jedi for purposes of his conversation with Luke.

 

But if it is a retcon that they go with ... I don't really see what the issue is - as others have said, there was never any sacrosanct 'pure' story at the heart of the Star Wars mythos, even as the original trilogy came out it was being retconned and revised repeatedly.

 

Actually we have information that Yoda could not in fact sense all other Jedi

 

"sense you I can, before I could not. Changed, something has" Yoda to Kanan

 

The implication here is that if a Jedi turns away from the Force like Kanan did, Yoda won't be able to find them with the Force.

 

So it still boils down to Kanan has to die, but that's about it.

[t-darko]

For starters I'm not really clear on what we're discussing here, but; I also need to admit that some arguments to "discredit" the new canon as it emerges seems a bit overworked and far fetched, Also the following is entirely from my point of view;

 

I'm gonna focus on two things only; 1) Yoda calling Luke and Leia their only hope and 2)the plausibility of Kanan and Ezra's deaths.

 

1) Yoda calling Luke and Leia their only hope

We first need to ask ourselves "What is a Jedi, is any Jedi as powerful as the next Jedi"? The Jedi's we've been introduced to through TCW and the movies suggest that there indeed are different kinds of Jedi with different ability to educate in, practice and execute all from ordinary tasks to complicated and complex Force matters. Again, as Dymond suggest we need to put it all into context. Yoda states that Luke and Leia were their only hope and what does he mean by that? First we need to look at Yoda and ask us what kind of Jedi was he? well, 800 hundred years old and through that time he lived and breath the Jedi Order, Yoda believed that only the Jedi Order could defeat the Sith, that only the Jedi Order could save the galaxy.

So clearly establishing a new Jedi Order would be Yoda's solution to saving the galaxy. Now what was Yoda's view on the average Jedi? He is reluctant to take on Anakin to the Order, even admitting the strength the boy had in the Force. Through TCW and the movies it becomes quite clear that merely being a Jedi, in Yoda's point of view, doesn't constitute that the any Jedi in question is able to perform greater things, bottom line; Yoda does not believe that any Jedi can rebuild the Jedi Order. He believes that only a Skywalker can rebuild the Order, an Order that can rid the galaxy of the Sith and restore the Republic. Hence; he declares that Luke and Leia is their only hope as he believes that not any kind of Jedi can restore what he believes can save them all; The Jedi Order. the statement should not be viewed on whether there's any kind of Jedi's left in the galaxy as there would take more than any kind of Jedi to accomplish what Yoda deemed necessary. The only potential Jedi's that mattered to Yoda was Luke and Leia!

 

2)the plausibility of Kanan and Ezra's deaths.

We need to stop the notion of Reliability to newly introduced canon to hang on whether different storylines cross or interact! The Ghost crew is just one part of the Rebellion, which in turn is far greater than the Ghost crew. In fact I'll be more sceptical to the new canon if the Skywalker story line crossed and interacted with the ghost crew's story line. So where is Kanan and Ezra in the OTs storyline? Nowhere at all as far as we know. It would seem that Kenobi is the only connection they have to the OT story line. I'm fine with that, even a fictional world is a large place, so for them not being mentioned in the OTs wouldn't be a great conundrum(well if you're not hell bent on arguing that it must), it wouldn't either compromise the canon in any logical aspect. Kanan and Ezra's connection to and dealings with Kenobi will be revealed before this season end. So does Kanan and Ezra need to die as they are not mentioned in the OT, PT, TFA or R1? No not at all, as we know, Yoda's ability to sense Kanan and Ezra is an "on and off" thing, so there's no certainty that they are dead at all in the time of the OTs.They could've become Bluemilk farmers for all we know!!

 

So the Conclusion!?

I would argue that Yoda can sense Kanan and Ezra only when they have a part to play in Yoda's solution for the galaxy and the Jedi Orders salvation. Kanan and Ezra have only a small part to play in the greater Skywalker Saga, hence; are they only small "Jedi blips" on Yoda's radar, as for their over all significance is yet to be revealed. But does Kanan have to die for it all to "make sense"? I'd say that that is a far too easy way to set up conditions for a dismissal or recognition of the emerging canon.

Edited December 28, 2016 by t-darko

[psandak]

The Ghost crew is just one part of the Rebellion, which in turn is far greater than the Ghost crew

 

You have not seen Rogue One yet have you?

 

 

On the Yavin 4 base there is a call for "General Sindula" Unless that is a common name chances are they are asking for Hera Sindula from Rebels

In the final battle, a ship that looks like the Ghost is there. Now again it might not BE the Ghost, but the assumption is that it is the Ghost. We do not see if the ship in question survives.

 

 

So....

 

maybe that is how Rebels ends... with The Ghost and her crew being called to Yavin 4 for a "summit" of the rebellion leadership, they end up going into battle and...they don't make it.

 

Rather dark ending but it would be similar to what they did with TCW