PVP is now dead in swtor

[TrixxieTriss]

I hoped never to say this. I've seen so many predictions since launch about the game dying. The game as such is still alive, at least the FP story mode is. But PVP is dead, It's in its death throws.

Everyone started to transfer to harbinger because of low PVP population on other servers. Now Harbinger is experiencing the same thing.

Sure there are times that it seems fine, but there are huge queue times now at other times that used to only have 2-5min wait times only three months ago.

If that's not dying I don't know what is. Other servers are dead even at prime time, now old Harbinger is heading that way. I thought we might see a slow decline before it happened, but it seems to be accelerating really fast, must faster than I ever expected.

Even these PVP forums are dead. Some threads are still on the front page from a few days ago. That is not normal for this highly vocal group.

I don't know what Bio can do to fix it, if anything. But they should at least merge the servers into region blocks. ie, merge all of the west coast to Harbinger

[Nickodemous]

To be honest, I have noticed the same thing.

 

I created a new legacy on Harbinger about 3 yrs ago and have been playing there ever since. Originally, I did this because it was one of the few servers that was faction balanced. At the time, most servers were heavily swayed towards the imps and I wanted to experience the game from the pub side while still being able to competetively compete in the pvp venues. I found that on harb and truely enjoyed my experience.

 

Now, pub side pvp is nearly dead which, as a result, has forced me to back to my roots and play an imp toon. As an imp, I have seen the numbers starting to dwindle at an alarming rate also. There are several reasons, in my opinion, as to why this has happened. I will not get into those, but i will say that this entire situation has forced me to reevaluate my time with Swtor.

 

So here I sit at the crossroads, yet again, do i stay or do i go. Do I participate in the LvsD event, create another legacy on another server, and pray that the devs will get the ship righted. Or......do I just pack it up, thank everyone for the good times, and ride off into the swtor sunset.

 

I really dont want to create an entire new legacy and, for the first time, I AM NOT enjoying myself anymore in the pvp realm. I have not made up my mind, but I am leaning in one direction at the moment.

[benficakungfu]

Isnt 8vs8 ranked coming back? That should spicd things quite a bt.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Isnt 8vs8 ranked coming back? That should spicd things quite a bt.

 

REAL balancing should be enough alone to spice things up a bit ...

[Hirchart]

Find a new game to play. Bioware does not and will not care about PvP - especially not ranked.

[Floplag]

i havent seen anything yet to suggest its dead at least on Harb, i have no problem getting matches whenever i want them ... but im concerned how the DvL event will affect the queues thats for certain.

We definitely need some mergers or consolidations IMO for the smaller servers

Edited June 28, 2016 by Floplag

[TrixxieTriss]

Isnt 8vs8 ranked coming back? That should spicd things quite a bt.

 

Eric categorically said this wasn't going to happen

[TrixxieTriss]

Find a new game to play. Bioware does not and will not care about PvP - especially not ranked.

 

But everything else is child like with goofy cartoon looking toons. And has stupid dwarves and stuff. I went back to check out wow after a 5 year absence and I couldn't believe how childlike and dated it looks.

 

Its such a shame Bio are killing this game. I don't want to play anything else.

[Kai-Del_Serromis]

Most of my PVP friends and guildies have moved to Overwatch for our pvp. TOR no longer offers what we enjoyed most; and we slowly making the transition to Archeage for everything else we could want Edited June 28, 2016 by Kai-Del_Serromis

[TrixxieTriss]

i havent seen anything yet to suggest its dead at least on Harb, i have no problem getting matches whenever i want them ... but im concerned how the DvL event will affect the queues thats for certain.

We definitely need some mergers or consolidations IMO for the smaller servers

 

It's mainly APAC prime times we are having issues with. We've gone from 2 min pops to over an hour in some cases. I even changed the time I play, to about 5 hours pre APAC prime time. Which makes it about 7pm west coast time.

As soon as it hits 8pm west coast time there is an exodus within 20mins. Pops go from 2mins to 15mins, then to 30mins, when it hits 9pm the pops start to get longer really fast. If you're in mids at this time it can jump to 2hours. Even at 65s it's up to 30-45mins. So when you get to APAC prime time, the PVP pop is extremely long, that's if it pops at all.

What really annoys me is there can be enough people queued to get 4 man pops, but it doesn't pop. Instead we sit there for 45mins, then pop an 8 man with 6 on one team and 5 on another. Someone ends up rage quiting and the game ends. Or after an hour wait it plops you into Proving Grounds and everyone wonders why they have even bothered waiting an hour to PVP.

 

They really need to do something. I'm not sure what will work, but I have some suggestions they could try, even if they fail, at least it is better than not trying.

 

1. Merge servers (1 west coast, 1 east coast, and what ever they need for Europe)

2. Fix the queue algorithm so that if there are enough people for 4 man arena and not enough for 8 man, that they start popping us into those instead of making us wait.

3. Introduce 6 man algorithm for quiet times. When pops times extend past 20mins the algorithm kicks in and only puts a maximum of 6 per side into 8 man. But when the amount of people queuing increases the algorithm changes it back to 8 per side. This process really shouldn't be that hard. It's only a mathematical equation that says if X = Z then do this and if X = Y do this.

4. Take the above step even further. If there aren't even enough people to make two 4man teams, change it so that the algorithm makes it only pop 3 per side or even 2 per side.

5. Fix the cheating happening in the game. It's the worst I've ever seen since launch. People walking through walls, non stealths using stealth, people teleporting whose classes can't or even before the ability is available at their lvl. I'm seeing such weird stuff happening at the moment that in some cases it looks like the classes have all been mashed together and you can custom choose what abilities you want. I know the cheating "is" driving people away. I also know that people who would never have considered doing it, are now doing it just to make it a level playing field.

 

Edit : I started this thread in the gen forum section about PVP earlier this week. Got one or two good posts, then it died fast when some negative people posted. I tried to keep it alive, but I didn't want to look like I'm the only pvper interested in havin them in pvp. If anyone else wants to join in and post to get a positive PVP discussion happening in the gen/PVE section of the forums happening, that would be great.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=887841

 

There were also some negative threads about PVP and posts in others. I can't seem to find them now as any PVP threads disappear. So if your in the forums and posting in the PVP section. Jump across and answer any PVP related post or threads you find. Be positive, get these guys onboard .

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=887841

 

Oops posted it in the wrong post. Haha. I'll leave it here anyway because it's relevant.

___________

Edited July 7, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[Floplag]

It's mainly APAC prime times we are having issues with. We've gone from 2 min pops to over an hour in some cases. I even changed the time I play, to about 5 hours pre APAC prime time. Which makes it about 7pm west coast time.

As soon as it hits 8pm west coast time there is an exodus within 20mins. Pops go from 2mins to 15mins, then to 30mins, when it hits 9pm the pops start to get longer really fast. If you're in mids at this time it can jump to 2hours. Even at 65s it's up to 30-45mins. So when you get to APAC prime time, the PVP pop is extremely long, that's if it pops at all.

What really annoys me is there can be enough people queued to get 4 man pops, but it doesn't pop. Instead we sit there for 45mins, then pop an 8 man with 6 on one team and 5 on another. Someone ends up rage quiting and the game ends. Or after an hour wait it plops you into Proving Grounds and everyone wonders why they have even bothered waiting an hour to PVP.

 

They really need to do something. I'm not sure what will, but I have some suggestions they could try, even if they fail, at least it is better than not trying.

 

1. Merge servers (1 west coast, 1 east coast, and what ever they need for Europe)

2. Fix the queue algorithm so that if there are enough people for 4 man arena and not enough for 8 man, that they start popping us into those instead of making us wait.

3. Introduce 6 man algorithm for quiet times. When pops times extend past 20mins the algorithm kicks in and only puts a maximum of 6 per side into 8 man. But when the amount of people queuing increases the algorithm changes it back to 8 per side. This process really shouldn't be that hard. It's only a mathematical equation that says if X = Z then do this and if X = Y do this.

4. Take the above step even further. If there aren't even enough people to make two 4man teams, change it so that the algorithm makes it only pop 3 per side or even 2 per side.

5. Fix the cheating happening in the game. It's the worst I've ever seen since launch. People walking through walls, non stealths using stealth, people teleporting whose classes can't or even before the ability is available at their lvl. I'm seeing such weird stuff happening at the moment that in some cases it looks like the classes have all been mashed together and you can custom choose what abilities you want. I know the cheating "is" driving people away. I also know that people who would never have considered doing it, are now doing it just to make it a level playing field.

 

All good ideas but they arent going to do so till they have milked the last out of the cow in terms of transfers and such.

At this point IMO there are only 2 viable server in US, the rest are just hanging on till BW is forced to do something and they arent there yet.

I suspect we will see some large sweeping changes between season 1 and 2 in that regard, but thats still some months out.

[TrixxieTriss]

All good ideas but they arent going to do so till they have milked the last out of the cow in terms of transfers and such.

At this point IMO there are only 2 viable server in US, the rest are just hanging on till BW is forced to do something and they arent there yet.

I suspect we will see some large sweeping changes between season 1 and 2 in that regard, but thats still some months out.

 

You're right about them milking it. But we as a player base are letting them milk it. While ever people are willing to pay money to keep transferring all over the place, Bioware will keep the servers going. People should just do what I've done, roll on another server. Speed through the first 2 chapters of each base class to get buffs. It took me 2 weeks to do that now that the PVE story is stupidly easy.

Once Bio see no one will pay and that they are just burning money keeping dead servers online, they will merge them.

Edited June 28, 2016 by TrixxieTriss

[Savej]

On TeH it's basically "be in a premade or get completely wrecked by one". Most people, even many diehards, aren't going to go way out of their way to line up a premade every time they want to bang out dlyies on a few characters, so q times have gone up there too lately. Even mids has a couple guilds camping it often enough. I don't really want to play Overwatch but I'm starting to feel like I'm missing my window there to get decent before that game's "meta" gets hammered out by most regulars without me (and I'm going to end up there anyways). Edited June 28, 2016 by Savej

[thetooty]

Well, I switched from Harb to Bergeren Colony and noticed MUCH faster que times as well as better pvp quality. I think in terms of pvp, Berg is actually BETTER than Harbinger at least right now. If you want good fast que times, just join berg for pvp in the afternoon and badda-bing badda-boom. Edited June 28, 2016 by thetooty

[Ruhun]

Well, I switched from Harb to Bergeren Colony and noticed MUCH faster que times as well as better pvp quality. I think in terms of pvp, Berg is actually BETTER than Harbinger at least right now. If you want good fast que times, just join berg for pvp in the afternoon and badda-bing badda-boom.

 

BC has been my main server for a long time now, and people keep pushing me to go to The or Harb because of the population.

All I found were packs of stacked premades and a ton of trash talking.

People that roll a Jugg shank and queue with a sorc healer, then call peple who can't take both of them on solo sh*tters.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Ruhun

[mfourcustom]

Hey you guys remember patch 2.4 the PVP patch you know the one where they removed PVP content

 

Remove 8v8 rateds... drive off what was left of your elite player base/guilds that payed 20$$$ PER toon to move servers for 8v8 rateds add 4v4's degrade your pvp community even more.

 

Well Played BW.

 

This game never had and or gave itself a chance its a solo player "story" mode game now packaged as an MMO.

 

Move on plenty of other games.

Edited June 28, 2016 by mfourcustom

[DerSchneider]

Hey you guys remember patch 2.4 the PVP patch you know the one where they removed PVP content

 

Remove 8v8 rateds... drive off what was left of your elite player base/guilds that payed 20$$$ PER toon to move servers for 8v8 rateds add 4v4's degrade your pvp community even more.

 

Well Played BW.

 

This game never had and or gave itself a chance its a solo player "story" mode game now packaged as an MMO.

 

Move on plenty of other games.

 

4v4 rateds saved the pvp from dying really quick. 8v8s hadn't nearly enough people that play 4v4 even now. It just needs a LITTLE of attention.

[foxmob]

4v4 rateds saved the pvp from dying really quick. 8v8s hadn't nearly enough people that play 4v4 even now. It just needs a LITTLE of attention.

 

it was pretty active on the destination servers. there were 8-10 regular guilds in the queue right up until BW announced the death of 8v8.

 

that said, neither grp ranked format has been sustainable. and solo ranked is broken b/c class balance cannot be maintained in a system that doesn't even require tanks & heals.

[Ansultares]

On TeH it's basically "be in a premade or get completely wrecked by one".

This gets really annoying as queue populations fall. It's made worse then the premades are stacked sages/sorcs, all cross-healing each other.

[Ansultares]

This game never had and or gave itself a chance its a solo player "story" mode game

And it doesn't even do that right.

[KumbayaGOD]

8 v 8 rank wont happen , why would the 8 v 8 would be more succesful now compare than before ?, i mean if 8 v 8 would be implemented , it would alive maybe for couple weeks and then would die soon

 

even rank 4 v 4 is not popular ( due to balance maybe etc)

[TrixxieTriss]

Well, I switched from Harb to Bergeren Colony and noticed MUCH faster que times as well as better pvp quality. I think in terms of pvp, Berg is actually BETTER than Harbinger at least right now. If you want good fast que times, just join berg for pvp in the afternoon and badda-bing badda-boom.

 

But what times is that and also what factions?

[TrixxieTriss]

BC has been my main server for a long time now, and people keep pushing me to go to The or Harb because of the population.

All I found were packs of stacked premades and a ton of trash talking.

People that roll a Jugg shank and queue with a sorc healer, then call peple who can't take both of them on solo sh*tters.

 

Trash talking idiots are there and premades are there only in the middle of US prime times.

Mine and other people's issue is there are zero pops in our prime time. We don't have enough for Premades and people don't trash talk because we don't want anyone to leave the match.

The low pops are actually snow balling the effect. You have to be pretty patient to sit around for 45mins for a WZ pop. I don't even PVE, so it's boring as hell. After a while I get impatient and leave too. Which just extends the pops for others waiting.

Only 3 months ago we had 2 min pops in our prime time, now we have an hour.

I know this is relatively late in the US, but most of the people I used to play with at those times were North American. What's really perplexing me is what happens at 8-9pm on the west coast that creates this max exodus. I can nearly time it to the minute. All of a sudden queue pops start getting longer. I look at the server time and sure enough it's 8-9pm.

What I am finding is most people still playing at our prime time are stealths. Usually operatives, but some sins. It's rare to even see a Sorc. I'm usually on my Merc at the moment or my Mara.

But what really pisses me off the most is there are 3-5 people in the queue at these times that are cheating. It's so obvious because you're in every match with them, usually not even with full teams. When you see Juggs or Sorcs stealth, it's a dead give away. Watching Maras and Mercs teleport, what looks like phase walk is even more astounding. Seeing snipers quickly stealth and unstealth during a roll so that you lose lock is damn annoying. People walking through walls, etc. I know these cheats are having a major impact. People I'm queuing with a lot PM each other, we know when the cheats are happening and most stop pvping in disgust. These people cheating at these times are probably one of the biggest contributors to people leaving. They aren't super good players, I'm yet to see one of them beat me 1v1, it usually takes 2-3 to beat me, depending on how much health I had at the beginning of the fight. So the cheats you're using don't help you. Better to play with out them and get good by learning your class.

So I implore any of those people to stop cheating, at least during low queue pops. You're just driving more people from PVP.

[TrixxieTriss]

4v4 rateds saved the pvp from dying really quick. 8v8s hadn't nearly enough people that play 4v4 even now. It just needs a LITTLE of attention.

 

It would have been better to keep both formats. Not everyone wants to play arena. Lots of us prefer objective PVP over death match. The whole thing was poorly thought out. It drove good players away from the game because they didn't want to rofl stomp people in regs just so they could get to play objective PVP.

This also had a flow on effect. The good players who stayed, dominated regs. This drove new pvpers or mid skilled players away from PVP because they got Globaled constantly. But also the art of objective PVP died when the arena death match people brought full on death matching into objective PVP and pretty much killed it.

Plus adding 4 man regs was poorly done too. Most objective orientated players really hated 4man and would leave matches or they ended up leaving this swtor. They should have also added a solo queue for regs so those who wanted to practice could and those who didn't want to play arena didn't have to.

Have you noticed the pattern the Devs follow with PVP? When ever they try something new they don't give you a choice. They force feed it too you till you hate it. Odessen is an example, they forced it down our throats till the outrage was so high that people stopped queuing or even playing till it stopped being the only pop. The Devs don't care what the population wants, they never listen, they just decide and give us what they want. This is not how you Develop a healthy game and satisfy your customer base.

Also sometimes 4man arena hardly popped in those early days and people were finding it difficult to learn maps and tactics or even get good at death matching. I actually lvl'd one toon from 10-55 and literally had 3 arena pops.

Everyone always says that 8man ranked failed because you couldn't get teams together. But how is that different to getting 4man ranked teams together at the moment.

The only thing Bio did right with 4man ranked was adding a solo queue. If they had implimented this with 8man ranked, I think it would have been successfull. better players would have had a place to go and do 8man objectives instead of being force to play 8man regs. This would have had a positive affect on regs too because the good players wouldn't be in that queue as much. Reg players would have gotten better and made a progression into 8man ranked. All in all this "should or would" have had positive affect on pvp and probably grown the PVP population instead of destroying it.

Since 4man was introduced, PVP has been slowly dying. It's not 4man that caused it, it's the way it was implimented.

The Devs and only the Devs are to blame for the death of PVP. Wether it's not listen, bad implementations, bad balance, force feeding us what they want us to have and not what we want, not merging dead servers and lastly having a down right incompetent attitude to the cheating in the game.

[KingKalbo]

I did not realize I still had a recurring subscription going to this game; but I just cancelled it. Dead game is dead game. I've been playing Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade for a few months now( It's in Alpha so there are imbalances and it's still missing Ork faction; but they will be coming out soon). Despite that it's shaping into a really good game.

 

I suggest if you can get behind a Third person shooter/melee/ vehicle combat with many MMO elements; to jump in and give it a try. Here you will get what you have always gotten from the beginning...Mediocrity. Later folks.