PlagaNerezza Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 This is one part where as a designer I really would have put my money where my mouth is in terms of decisions having consequences. Have a LS decision there mean an automatic failure. You assume you can do it, and you just die and have to restart the whole chapter. Cheap? Perhaps, but I guarantee you a lot more people would stop and think a lot more carefully when... ...Lana is in trouble and Valkorion offers to save her. The first time I played the game I went in totally blind on early access, and was so afraid of losing her I took him up on the offer. Imagine if if it was someone's first time and now they know making the wrong decision can cause problems, it would make the scene even more tense. I'm not unrealistic in what I expect a game to be able to deliver in terms of choices, but there are definitely ways you can keep players on their toes without adding massive branching paths. I am on the same page as you on the plot armor having been abused in this story. The consequences for decisions are not severe in major pivotal story points. It costs you little and benefits you little either way you go with the decisions. Like the Dark Side choices are compelling? You still have the same financial and story outcomes. It's basically told as a narrative story with decisions that never help you and only punish you for choosing something. There is no seeming benefit to actions you take. You cannot benefit from any choice you make. Killing a companion or rejecting them? Having them? Having liberated worlds? Using powers or not? Saving or not saving a character? Its hard to tell what the implications are for this and because its incomplete I can only judge this on the first act. Its not impressed a lot of people yet on the whole "your story" front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinator Posted August 30, 2016 Author Share Posted August 30, 2016 Topic reminder that this is not a "Koth's character makes no sense" thread (even though it really doesn't... wait, let's NOT open that can of worms.) This is a "Let us do a thing that makes sense if we want to play our characters the way Bioware tells us how these characters-types behave" thread. Dark side players need to atleast have to option to kill Koth. This has nothing to do with Koth's motivations or morality . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 Topic reminder that this is not a "Koth's character makes no sense" thread (even though it really doesn't... wait, let's NOT open that can of worms.) This is a "Let us do a thing that makes sense if we want to play our characters the way Bioware tells us how these characters-types behave" thread. Dark side players need to atleast have to option to kill Koth. This has nothing to do with Koth's motivations or morality . Why is it a Dark Side Action to kill Koth? A dark side action may lead to Koth's decisions, but the option to kill him isn't necessary to be dark sided in nature. He's a thieving mutinous pirate who when he disagrees with his military commanders commits theft and mutiny of military property on the grounds of his own personal morality code of conduct. Under only the most idiotic and failed morality code is it ever reasonable to commit mutiny and theft and become a defector. I don't think anyone really views those actions heroically. We are in disagreement with the notion its a dark side action to kill him as a natural course of his overdue death. I support his execution and hanging and support it being a light side punishment for what the military does to thieves and mutineers. At the very least its the law of the land and no jedi really would stop a death sentence fairly imposed by a judicial process. You may have darker options to his death, but automatically making it reward you dark side points? You have to perform an action that runs counter to the dark side. Or are you someone who believes the death penalty is a bad no matter what? Thus anyone who performs it, aids in the prosecution/arrest of a dp case is automatically committing a dark side action. I rather like having them think Koth's death out for us. Let us enjoy a series of options to offing this character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediAkemi Posted August 30, 2016 Share Posted August 30, 2016 What bugs me about the Sun Reactor is there is no neutral option to say "What makes you think I could possibly know how to fix that thing?" Yeah, this has been done to death, but we've never seen a Sun Reactor before, we've only just been woken up from five years in carbonite where a fault in the process meant we were poisoned rather than perfectly safely suspended, the cure Lana injected us with hurt like hell, and we're being chased by droids, Knights, and the crazy ***** who broke the reactor in the first place... oh, and the people who are actually paid to keep the reactor working don't think there's any way to fix it in time after what Vaylin did. It's a miracle that we pull it off (if we're Light Side). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZanyaCross Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 What bugs me about the Sun Reactor is there is no neutral option to say "What makes you think I could possibly know how to fix that thing?" What a missed opportunity to have the success of that mission depend on having a high score in cybertech! Imagine if the choices you make aren't just something you decide on a whim, but your options actually depend on how you've built your character to that point and their relative strengths! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediAkemi Posted August 31, 2016 Share Posted August 31, 2016 What a missed opportunity to have the success of that mission depend on having a high score in cybertech! Imagine if the choices you make aren't just something you decide on a whim, but your options actually depend on how you've built your character to that point and their relative strengths! Kinda like how in Star Trek Online there are sometimes different options based on your career path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brinator Posted August 31, 2016 Author Share Posted August 31, 2016 Why is it a Dark Side Action to kill Koth? A dark side action may lead to Koth's decisions, but the option to kill him isn't necessary to be dark sided in nature. He's a thieving mutinous pirate who when he disagrees with his military commanders commits theft and mutiny of military property on the grounds of his own personal morality code of conduct. Under only the most idiotic and failed morality code is it ever reasonable to commit mutiny and theft and become a defector. I don't think anyone really views those actions heroically. We are in disagreement with the notion its a dark side action to kill him as a natural course of his overdue death. I support his execution and hanging and support it being a light side punishment for what the military does to thieves and mutineers. At the very least its the law of the land and no jedi really would stop a death sentence fairly imposed by a judicial process. You may have darker options to his death, but automatically making it reward you dark side points? You have to perform an action that runs counter to the dark side. Or are you someone who believes the death penalty is a bad no matter what? Thus anyone who performs it, aids in the prosecution/arrest of a dp case is automatically committing a dark side action. I rather like having them think Koth's death out for us. Let us enjoy a series of options to offing this character. The NEED to have the option to kill Koth is (in my opinion) dark side. In many scenarios, light side could possibly have the option to kill Koth... But by then he could have a whole slew of "I've redeemed myself!" actions that (in a narrative perspective) show Koth in an unarguably light view. Dark side characters need the option to kill him here anyway. I actually don't feel I disagree with you at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jusoon Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 (edited) God in heaven, yes please. I hate this character and it irks me to no end that I am forced to drag his sorry butt around in quests. I've force choked jedi and executed people who would put Mother Teresa to shame with their innate goodness, but I can't shut a loudmouthed, nothing happening idiot like Koth up? Ridiculous. I get it, he's supposed to be Han Solo. Guess would would have killed Han Solo in about 5 seconds if he had to quest with him. Yep, any member of the Dark Council. BW has been talking about how awesome it is that your decisions matter in this game lately, but you can't even decide to to walk around with anymore. Edited November 19, 2016 by Jusoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 19, 2016 Share Posted November 19, 2016 Koth – If Koth has upset you, he will not go unpunished. http://dulfy.net/2016/11/17/swtor-kotet-story-livestream-coverage/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Koth – If Koth has upset you, he will not go unpunished. http://dulfy.net/2016/11/17/swtor-kotet-story-livestream-coverage/ YES YES YES YES YES ! WOOHOO! I only wanna kill him cose he Interrupted a Smoochie with Lana ! That is sacred ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 What a missed opportunity to have the success of that mission depend on having a high score in cybertech! Imagine if the choices you make aren't just something you decide on a whim, but your options actually depend on how you've built your character to that point and their relative strengths! I thought slicing myself. And agreed on missed opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 I thought slicing myself. And agreed on missed opportunity. It's Mass effect all over again . Play Adept and use your rifle to break a window during Jack Mission..*facepalm*..why my adept couldn't do that ? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 It's Mass effect all over again . Play Adept and use your rifle to break a window during Jack Mission..*facepalm*..why my adept couldn't do that ? LOL Is that like how on Ziost, my awesome force user of awesomeness, had to use a rocket launcher to open the door, instead of ripping it apart with the force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted November 20, 2016 Share Posted November 20, 2016 Is that like how on Ziost, my awesome force user of awesomeness, had to use a rocket launcher to open the door, instead of ripping it apart with the force? Eh......O.o...you never played Mass effect ? Oh mah Gad! yeah! Yet in some flashpoint..well one flashpoint lol on Repb side , they made the animation for a force user to use the force . Why didn't they just use that ? They overlooked alot of stuff . And yet they have been spazzing about the awesomness of Kofte . It remind me of the saying ''The blind leading the blind'' .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Advent Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Honestly, my main character is Light Side and I still don't want Koth in my Alliance. Sadly, I don't suspect we'll be permitted to even put him on administrative leave without having been destructive enough to make him hijack the Gravestone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Honestly, my main character is Light Side and I still don't want Koth in my Alliance. Sadly, I don't suspect we'll be permitted to even put him on administrative leave without having been destructive enough to make him hijack the Gravestone. Check on Dulfy , I think they are gonna let us space him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 ''The blind leading the blind'' .... A little off topic but I always find that expression amusing, since it actually happens quite a bit in RL, and usually without incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Eh......O.o...you never played Mass effect ? Oh mah Gad! yeah! Yet in some flashpoint..well one flashpoint lol on Repb side , they made the animation for a force user to use the force . Why didn't they just use that ? They overlooked alot of stuff . And yet they have been spazzing about the awesomness of Kofte . It remind me of the saying ''The blind leading the blind'' .... I tried! My friends loved it. It sounded appealing. I couldn't get passed how ugly I thought my character looked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZibzRO Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Lel so many hate against poor Koth... everyone hate him just because he left you after you BOMBARD and kill alot of his people .... yeh.... How he DARE? damn evil Koth.... I finished the story on my LS jedi and he was a very nice person with funny lines especialy "Back in a Flash" . He is a very optimistic and spiritfull guy... who care alot not only for his people but for you and your alliance.... So yeh ... all this hate against him is missplaced. Anyone will left an "alliance" were your "leader" has no problem to bombard and kill inocence(civilians) people from your home planet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eshvara Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Lel so many hate against poor Koth... everyone hate him just because he left you after you BOMBARD and kill alot of his people .... yeh.... How he DARE? damn evil Koth.... I finished the story on my LS jedi and he was a very nice person with funny lines especialy "Back in a Flash" . He is a very optimistic and spiritfull guy... who care alot not only for his people but for you and your alliance.... So yeh ... all this hate against him is missplaced. Anyone will left an "alliance" were your "leader" has no problem to bombard and kill inocence(civilians) people from your home planet.... Yeah I think of it this way as well, he isn't a bad person, he only becomes annoying when you choose dark side options. So the immense hatred for him isn't exactly justified. It's like punching someone in the face for no reason and when that person punches back you think you have a right to be mad. Edited November 21, 2016 by Eshvara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celise Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 headcanon. my ds sith inquisitor has no place for silliness or foolishness, he still considers himself a dark council member. as such feeding off the exhilaration, revenge, shame and embarrassment, he is also so excited at the prospect of catching koth and cutting him down. 1. the principle, if no one respects a dark lord of the sith, then the sith needs to reestablish his presence with an example to everyone else. 2. he won't abide foolishness and koth has outlived his uselessness. my ds imperial agent hates traitors without any further justification, first chance Koths head shows up in his scope, the trigger is going to be pulled. if that doesn't happen he is going to torture koth, roflstomp him into a fine red paste and then wash him off the deck plate into space. of course not all my characters mind koth my ls heretic sith warrior likes koth very much, a solid teammate who he can trust under fire, enjoys his humor in a hopeless situation and doesn't mind his skills working with Tora. However, he does take issue with Koth's devotion to valkorion. the warrior still hopes to snap Koth out of the trance he is in before it is too late. my ls jedi knight also has no issue with Koth, in fact, the knight encourages diversity even if he doesn't agree with koth's devotion to Valkorion, even so, he has treated koth equally as any other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDutchman Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 (edited) Lel so many hate against poor Koth... everyone hate him just because he left you after you BOMBARD and kill alot of his people .... yeh.... How he DARE? damn evil Koth.... I finished the story on my LS jedi and he was a very nice person with funny lines especialy "Back in a Flash" . He is a very optimistic and spiritfull guy... who care alot not only for his people but for you and your alliance.... So yeh ... all this hate against him is missplaced. Anyone will left an "alliance" were your "leader" has no problem to bombard and kill inocence(civilians) people from your home planet.... The issue isn't with him getting angry about you killing his people, the issue is his utter hypocrisy. He doesn't really care when Arcann murders billions, maybe even trillions of your people, he just gets into a hissy fit when you kill perhaps a few hundred of his. He also worships a world devourering monster, with a flippant "he was always good to Zakuul" Really that one phrase sums up why most people hate him "he was always good to Zakuul" The trillions of other people around the galaxy just don't matter. Edited November 21, 2016 by MadDutchman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 Yeah I think of it this way as well, he isn't a bad person, he only becomes annoying when you choose dark side options. So the immense hatred for him isn't exactly justified. It's like punching someone in the face for no reason and when that person punches back you think you have a right to be mad. This. I have done it both ways and on my sorcerer yes she gets mad at him but then again she is dark V and she is the type that expects people to listen to her or else so yes she gets mad in character (but I understand why he is doing that) but she will punish him as that is how she deals with things. My light side smuggler sees a different side and he has had her back during all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 The issue isn't with him getting angry about you killing his people, the issue is his utter hypocrisy. He doesn't really care when Arcann murders billions, maybe even trillions of your people, he just gets into a hissy fit when you kill perhaps a few hundred of his. He also worships a world devourering monster, with a flippant "he was always good to Zakuul" Really that one phrase sums up why most people hate him "he was always good to Zakuul" The trillions of other people around the galaxy just don't matter. He reflects what a lot people say. Most people don't get involved with another country problems or situations as it doesn't affect them but when it affects your country, your town, your city then it is different. Second he only knows Valk as a good person as he never did what he did to the other planets. It is hard for him to see that Valk could do this even though the outlander, Lana and other people have told him. He reminds me of a type of person that until he has seen what everyone states about Valk he going to not believe them even if he wants to. He's the type that may need proof and unfortunately there is no way we can do that (unless there is a chance in the new chapters) to show him. I believe if there was a way to show him he would see things differently but just listening to the outlander and Lana is not going to help even if he wants to believe you. He the type that needs proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SerraShar Posted November 21, 2016 Share Posted November 21, 2016 He reflects what a lot people say. Most people don't get involved with another country problems or situations as it doesn't affect them but when it affects your country, your town, your city then it is different. Second he only knows Valk as a good person as he never did what he did to the other planets. It is hard for him to see that Valk could do this even though the outlander, Lana and other people have told him. He reminds me of a type of person that until he has seen what everyone states about Valk he going to not believe them even if he wants to. He's the type that may need proof and unfortunately there is no way we can do that (unless there is a chance in the new chapters) to show him. I believe if there was a way to show him he would see things differently but just listening to the outlander and Lana is not going to help even if he wants to believe you. He the type that needs proof. Poor writing plain and simple . Instead of saying ''He was always good to Zaakul!'' when asked , if he really was the kind needed proof his answer would be different . He would say ''You sure we are talking about the same guy ? valk was Good to Zaakul! he would never do something like that !' Doubt is always a Good thing , it is a step for a character to grow . To questions , and it open more door to change as the story advance . That would have been better ! That would fit with the whole ''Need proof kinda of guy'' . Because his ''He was always Good to Zaakul'' sound more like ''You guys pissed him off or something ? maybe you deserve it ? cose I can't complain here , he was good to us ! candy and rainbow !' . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts