TX_Angel Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I agree. I do enjoy this game a lot. But I don't know what they need to do to get this game thriving again. I am not even sure if it is possible at this point. I know dead servers is a no no. But outside of that, I have no clue what is needed to stop this massive gushing wound from bleeding. I wish it would stop because if it doesn't, this game I enjoy so much will be a memory sooner than later I am afraid. Content... Lots of content, and fast... Group content... a new PvP map every 3 months, a new GSF map every 3 months, and a new FP every three months, on rotation (so one new one each month). 2-4 new ops per year, a new daily area at least once a year, if not twice... The ability to do all story content in a group would help... More class stories... Perhaps a whole new class... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Content... Lots of content, and fast... Group content... a new PvP map every 3 months, a new GSF map every 3 months, and a new FP every three months, on rotation (so one new one each month). 2-4 new ops per year, a new daily area at least once a year, if not twice... The ability to do all story content in a group would help... More class stories... Perhaps a whole new class... And a pony? That's a release cadence that's crazy busy. It'd be nice if they could do it, but that level of content generation is well beyond what is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm-Cutter Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) And a pony? That's a release cadence that's crazy busy. It'd be nice if they could do it, but that level of content generation is well beyond what is possible. This is possible, if they spend the time and money. - I have to agree with the OP . - It's a sure sign that things are on the wane, when I see that I'm the only one in my guild who made ANY conquest points by the weekend. - and this has been happening now for some time. - And just the 20K for the rewards isn't hard to achieve anyways. Conq points aren't mandatory in the guild as we're to small to compete with the big boys, but I thinks that's truly telling.... I hear the rest of the guild on mumble having great fun and laughs - and they've just started on Wildstar - Not saying it's a better game, but that's where they are and that's where they're having fun..... So I'm starting to wonder whether sticking with SWTOR is such a good idea.... Edited May 21, 2016 by Storm-Cutter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Content... Lots of content, and fast... Group content... a new PvP map every 3 months, a new GSF map every 3 months, and a new FP every three months, on rotation (so one new one each month). 2-4 new ops per year, a new daily area at least once a year, if not twice... The ability to do all story content in a group would help... More class stories... Perhaps a whole new class... While that sounds good how accurate can that be done and done correctly. Even now there are bugs (and I normally don't complain about bugs that much) and people come to the forums and fuss about that bug and this one. I know 1 or 2 couples that might come back if they could do story content in a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asheris Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I dunno. I don't have many friends outside the guild but from the "in-guild" friends...nope, not so many missing even when I went for a break for a month or four More than that - most of our "old squad" is coming back since 4.0 hit and they stay so...I guess it's good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlienEyeTX Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Content... Lots of content, and fast... Group content... a new PvP map every 3 months, a new GSF map every 3 months, and a new FP every three months, on rotation (so one new one each month). 2-4 new ops per year, a new daily area at least once a year, if not twice... The ability to do all story content in a group would help... More class stories... Perhaps a whole new class... So, you want them to do 2-3 years worth of development work every year? I mean, if we're including class stories along with the vast array of other content that you mention. The amount of stuff you're asking for is basically the same as developing a new game. Everybody wants new stuff, of course. But this request is just ludicrous. We have TONS of stuff to keep us occupied now. At least, depending on what you care to spend time doing. If you get bored that quickly, maybe play another game AND play this one, too. Or, you know, do something constructive with the time that you no longer need to spend here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKNORTH Posted May 21, 2016 Author Share Posted May 21, 2016 This is possible, if they spend the time and money. - I have to agree with the OP . - It's a sure sign that things are on the wane, when I see that I'm the only one in my guild who made ANY conquest points by the weekend. - and this has been happening now for some time. - And just the 20K for the rewards isn't hard to achieve anyways. Conq points aren't mandatory in the guild as we're to small to compete with the big boys, but I thinks that's truly telling.... I hear the rest of the guild on mumble having great fun and laughs - and they've just started on Wildstar - Not saying it's a better game, but that's where they are and that's where they're having fun..... So I'm starting to wonder whether sticking with SWTOR is such a good idea.... Didn't wildstar close its doors? I thought someone mentioned it went poof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 22, 2016 Share Posted May 22, 2016 This is possible, if they spend the time and money. Where are they going to get the time and money? If they had it, TEC would have been released on time, instead of 3 months late. Or they would have been doing this release cadence already. The amount of content available at launch was the result of a multi-year development cycle - we won't see that again. I do sort of expect their release cadence to step up, given the amount of effort that had to have gone into all the 4.0 game changes; assuming 5.0 isn't as drastic a change (and I don't see that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadCuzBad Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 We need more players in the game. And yes this game is good and should not die like this. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rklontz Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) So, you want them to do 2-3 years worth of development work every year?. If they spent less time trying to turn an mmo into an online single player rpg they could have easily released group content. They missed the opportunity to introduce at least 3 possible ops already. The design work and story was already done the just needed to enter in the mechanics and rewards. Edited May 23, 2016 by rklontz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 If they spent less time trying to turn an mmo into an online single player rpg they could have easily released group content. They missed the opportunity to introduce at least 3 possible ops already. The design work and story was already done the just needed to enter in the mechanics and rewards. I'm assuming you're referring to the Eternal Championship? Because that's the only thing comparable in difficulty and effort in creating Ops-equivalent content. Which they missed their announced ship date by 3 months for, and the level of balancing difficulty required is easier (since it's single player) than actual ops content would be. It also fills a much-needed role as a group-content "boot camp," so redirecting that effort would have the perverse effect of making group content less viable as it would be less available to newer players. Mechanics, fun, interested, challenging, and balanced; those are the hardest kind of content to develop. There's no "just enter in" to creating mechanics. Balanced rewards are almost as hard, because they have to interact with the entire rest of the game. Story is easy. Art assets are only slightly harder to develop, but they're write-once, and you recycle them. Rewriting the game at the base level of the 4.0 change was hard, because they touched nearly every aspect of the game but the engine itself. That the only major issues they had revolved around story/quest/companion flags; and that Level Sync didn't blow up in their faces, is a minor miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanbra Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I'm assuming you're referring to the Eternal Championship? Because that's the only thing comparable in difficulty and effort in creating Ops-equivalent content. Which they missed their announced ship date by 3 months for, and the level of balancing difficulty required is easier (since it's single player) than actual ops content would be. It also fills a much-needed role as a group-content "boot camp," so redirecting that effort would have the perverse effect of making group content less viable as it would be less available to newer players. The main reason why Eternal Championship was delayed is because it was made single player. They had to make it doable by every class and every spec and had to make it for different levels of companion influence giving far too many variables. If they had made it as a pair of ops it could have been balanced for a standard group. So instead of repeatable content that people would have been doing for a year, they threw it away to make a solo experience that many people will do for the achievements and then stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 (edited) Forget it Edited May 23, 2016 by Jedi_riches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 To answer your question, yes the game is in serious decline. I am in 4 different PVP guilds and have been in them each for over a year and all 4 of them are dead. They are all around the 500 memberish mark and they are all dead. The game itself has died. What you are witnessing now if the last remnant of players trying to find the highest point on the titanic as it takes its final plunge into the ocean. I would compare this game right now as the point in the movie titanic when the boat is getting ready to split into 2 and we are the people running all over the boat looking for the high ground. I would say that is a perfect comparison. Thats pretty dead on. For my experience during the initial release of conquest we were one of the top active guilds on JC. There was not a week of conquest that if we went after a planet that we didn't walked away with the number one slot. We didn't lose a single week. Got Galaxy Conquer the first week possible. We had multiple raid teams and PVP groups running multiple nights. Since KotFE to date, we have seen that activity, raid numbers and PVP steadily drop off to only a hand full of players, one raid team that may or may not run depending on who shows and random PVP individuals (rarely a group). Something is very "off" about SWTOR. It's no one particular thing but multiple. Everything from mediocre story, no new end game group content all the way to only recently (after 2 years) getting new PVP areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 The main reason why Eternal Championship was delayed is because it was made single player. They had to make it doable by every class and every spec and had to make it for different levels of companion influence giving far too many variables. If they had made it as a pair of ops it could have been balanced for a standard group. So instead of repeatable content that people would have been doing for a year, they threw it away to make a solo experience that many people will do for the achievements and then stop. [Citation Needed] As far as I know, TEC was always intended for single player; with the option for groups tacked on later. Several of the mechanics only challenge single-player+comp ground - in particular the Doombot's insta-death mechanic would be trivial for a 4-group, much less an 8+-group. The Breaktown Brawler's "keep them separated" mechanics are likewise trivial for a 4-group. There's no tank swap and no evidence that there were any such mechanic that were stripped out later. Going into details: Arlia Zayzen: Obviously designed for solo, and would require significant reworking to make it a challenge for multiple players. As it is, you probably don't need a companion at all. Daruulah Grah: At best a 4-group challenge, and that would require significant buffing of the adds to require the tank to pull them off the rest of the party. Gunga Boga: The adds are ignorable in solo mode, and the Zildrog's Judgement "special" would require massive rewriting to be appropriate for a group. Conraad and Chompers: The closest to a "swap" mechanic that exists. You could mess with the mechanics to require both of them to be tanked and kept apart while the DPS alternate burning one and then the other; but it would require mechanical changes. Lanos: I guess buffing the Reprogrammed Skytroopers to require that they be tanked would make it a viable group challenge, but it sure doesn't feel like they cut it down from a harder fight. Breaktown Brawler: You'd have to make notable changes in the mechanics - for one, you'd have to remove the "only melee range attacks are effective" or have to deal with all the salty tears from Gunslingers/Snipers, and to a lesser extent Commandos/Mercs and Sages/Sorcerers. First (only) fight that would benefit from 2 tanks, and even then it's not that hard to keep them separated. Nocturno and Drake Raven: Again, mechanically designed to challenge a solo+comp. Conversion to group challenge would require a top-to-bottom redesign of the mechanics. Little Gut: At best a 4-group tank and spank with the mechanics as-is and buffs applied. Would require mechanical changes to make it 8-group Doom Droid: Already mentioned. Since the developers have outright said they designed TEC to be a ramp into group content, rather than a repeatable by itself (though they did put some reasons to repeat in), all the way back shortly after 4.0 hit; I don't know why people would think that it was group content that was "cut down" to be single-player instead; especially given the somewhat sloppy way they cut down Flashpoints to be "tactical." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanbra Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Never said championship wasn't intended as solo, only pointing out the absurdity that they can make ten bosses for solo play that will have little repeat value but don't have the resources to make group content. And I base the balancing issue from their posts on the PTS where they were wanting the class and spec of the people doing it with what companion and the comp's influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Never said championship wasn't intended as solo, only pointing out the absurdity that they can make ten bosses for solo play that will have little repeat value but don't have the resources to make group content. And I base the balancing issue from their posts on the PTS where they were wanting the class and spec of the people doing it with what companion and the comp's influence. Bang for the buck. There's more solos than there are group players, and balancing for solo is easier than balancing for group.. And they rather need some way to ramp up people for group content. Let's see what they do now that TEC has shipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Bang for the buck. There's more solos than there are group players, and balancing for solo is easier than balancing for group.. And they rather need some way to ramp up people for group content. Let's see what they do now that TEC has shipped. It does not do a good job of preparing you for Ops content and I don't belive that is its purpose. If you want to learn how to be a tank/DPS/healer all in one, then it serves its purpose. You have a role to fill in a group, TEC wants you to do everything yourself and have a companion at a high enough influence or good enough gear to get you through. They are trying to find ways to satisfy those who want group content without alienating solo players. But group players want group content, not a slimmed down version to do alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grania Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I've never played any online game where the players weren't convinced it was dying. Swtor been dying since day one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 It does not do a good job of preparing you for Ops content and I don't belive that is its purpose. If you want to learn how to be a tank/DPS/healer all in one, then it serves its purpose. You have a role to fill in a group, TEC wants you to do everything yourself and have a companion at a high enough influence or good enough gear to get you through. They are trying to find ways to satisfy those who want group content without alienating solo players. But group players want group content, not a slimmed down version to do alone. I said group content; I did not say ops. The stated intent of the devs was that TEC is prep course for group content. I've run it as a tank and as a DPS, and they do play through it differently. One of these days I'll take a healer through it. I hope they've redirected the resources involved in TEC to development of some kind of group-PvE content; preferably available to large groups. I have my own doubts that it will be classic rigid-trinity format, given the conversion of FPs to tactical, which is why I carefully avoid the term Ops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I said group content; I did not say ops. The stated intent of the devs was that TEC is prep course for group content. I've run it as a tank and as a DPS, and they do play through it differently. One of these days I'll take a healer through it. I hope they've redirected the resources involved in TEC to development of some kind of group-PvE content; preferably available to large groups. I have my own doubts that it will be classic rigid-trinity format, given the conversion of FPs to tactical, which is why I carefully avoid the term Ops. And group players hate the tactical format. It is honestly the most boring experience in this game. In other games where you can control taking damage by avoiding abilities and use multiple health potions, you don't need a tank or healer. The combat in this game was designed to have a tank/healer/DPS. If you want to break the trinity, you have to redo the combat system or you'll keep having generic, easy fights with minimal mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I've never played any online game where the players weren't convinced it was dying. Swtor been dying since day one Swtor was DOA. The dead-saying started even before it launched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 And group players hate the tactical format. It is honestly the most boring experience in this game. In other games where you can control taking damage by avoiding abilities and use multiple health potions, you don't need a tank or healer. The combat in this game was designed to have a tank/healer/DPS. If you want to break the trinity, you have to redo the combat system or you'll keep having generic, easy fights with minimal mechanics. Speak for yourself as far as boring goes - I've had a blast in TFPs I'm not going to disagree that the trinity system needs to go, but I don't think that's what you wanted me to agree with The best evidence (and it's pretty poor, admittedly) is that players for whom Ops are primary/only reason they play is a small portion of the player base. BW certainly hasn't been behaving like they wish to cater to the Ops crowd in directing their (limited) resources. But I'm waiting to see what comes after TEC before making pronouncements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I've never played any online game where the players weren't convinced it was dying. Swtor been dying since day one I mean, technically speaking, it has literally been dying since launch. Other than expansion launches, population has declined at every point along the way. And I think 4.0 is the first expansion to have more players than the previous expansion. The expectation for SWTOR was millions of subscribers and now we don't even have that many players overall, much less subscribing. That isn't me saying that I think the game is dead, but it certainly isn't increasing in population regularly either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanArgent Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 I mean, technically speaking, it has literally been dying since launch. Other than expansion launches, population has declined at every point along the way. And I think 4.0 is the first expansion to have more players than the previous expansion. The expectation for SWTOR was millions of subscribers and now we don't even have that many players overall, much less subscribing. That isn't me saying that I think the game is dead, but it certainly isn't increasing in population regularly either. That's the normal trajectory of most games. They're born and start dying almost immediately, it's just a question of when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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