Ruhun Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Again, 2 sides to this. DPS with a purpose is good, DPS for DPS sake alone, not so much. Spawn camping while the stealth classes gets behind you and caps, not good. As the one who usually ends up watching the actual objective while they go farm and tell me how bad i am for doing half their damage when i saved 4 caps they never knew even took place.... yeah, kind of hard to think that was anything more than garbage damage. I would rather play with people that do a mil and actually play the map, as opposed to 2 mil off in neverland far from anything that actually matters. Cant tell you how many people ive seen do 2, 3 mil in damage in a one sides loss and blame everyone but the mirror for it. I dont care about stats, i care about winning. i will vote for the guy that did his job way before ill ever vote for the stat padders. People aoe spawn for that very reason. Catch any stealthers in the aoe and if they pop an escape to go back into stealth try to follow them. If the entire team is getting spawn camped chances are that stealth player isn't that great. Even if he caps the node he will die under any kind of pressure and lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) I often see people criticize those who "farm kills", but when I watched them playing they not only did little damage but added little to the objectives in the game also.It's hard to read this from the scoreboard. People aoe spawn for that very reason.Spawn camping is really unhealthy for the game. That said, it used to be so much worse, in that spawn camping was practically the norm years back. Damn near killed PvP. Edited May 20, 2016 by Ansultares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 I often have died doing this, getting caught by a zerg of them running off the node to kill me. I don't consider it "douchey" at all, they are not trying to compete and I am bored so I will head to them to find a fight. good for you. most people (in the world) are not going to keep trying in a hopeless situation. and if you really need proof of this, have a look at the failure of the ranked format. I don't care if you're talking about 8v8, 4v4 or yolo. ppl play for a week. most of them find themselves getting face rolled by significantly higher levels of competition. so they stop queuing, and the queue dies aside from 2-4 elite teams. even yolo -- in every season -- just limps along because after a couple weeks, it's just the same 10-15 players hopping around on 8 different toons with a random 5 jawas coming and going to slaughter each day/week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) It's hard to read this from the scoreboard. Not really. If you did little damage, but called incs and have more objectives than others it's safe to assume you guarded the objective. If you did no damage, no heals, and have very little objective points then what did you do? Spawn camping is really unhealthy for the game. That said, it used to be so much worse, in that spawn camping was practically the norm years back. Damn near killed PvP. In any given map there are many openings to leave spawn. If you and your team consistently choose the one that has the most opposition you deserve to be camped. Edited May 20, 2016 by Ruhun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) If you did no damage, no heals, and have very little objective points then what did you do?Put myself in the right place at the right time. There are still some maps where harassing the enemy, producing little DPS and few or no objective points, is an appropriate tactic. Won a Novarre last night for doing little more than heading to the enemy off-node, drawing two players in addition to their defender, including their healer. Granted, I had plenty of DPS and objectives otherwise, but that one act was rather decisive. If you and your team consistently choose the one that has the most opposition you deserve to be camped.Sounds lovely. If you and your team consistently choose to spawn camp, enjoy the increasingly long queue times. At least, that's the lesson I took away from when spawn camping was a regular thing. Edited May 20, 2016 by Ansultares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 Put myself in the right place at the right time. There are still some maps where harassing the enemy, producing little DPS and few or no objective points, is an appropriate tactic. Won a Novarre last night for doing little more than heading to the enemy off-node, drawing two players in addition to their defender, including their healer. Granted, I had plenty of DPS and objectives otherwise, but that one act was rather decisive.. How does that contradict anything I said? If you were effective at killing them it would reflect on the score board. You weren't on the objective, but you chased down to people and harassed/dps'd. Sounds lovely. If you and your team consistently choose to spawn camp, enjoy the increasingly long queue times. At least, that's the lesson I took away from when spawn camping was a regular thing. Queues are fine, only dead servers have issues with them. I'm not going to gimp myself because people can't play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 It's hard to read this from the scoreboard. Spawn camping is really unhealthy for the game. That said, it used to be so much worse, in that spawn camping was practically the norm years back. Damn near killed PvP. No it really isnt. If i have half the damage as another guy but twice the medals, its not hard to see at all. A ton of damage with virtually no objectives = farmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 People aoe spawn for that very reason. Catch any stealthers in the aoe and if they pop an escape to go back into stealth try to follow them. If the entire team is getting spawn camped chances are that stealth player isn't that great. Even if he caps the node he will die under any kind of pressure and lose it. As the guy usually watching to door, this doesnt work Point though is that if they were doing it right he wouldnt get it in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) In any given map there are many openings to leave spawn. If you and your team consistently choose the one that has the most opposition you deserve to be camped. .... no. you can't do this. you can't have it both ways. if your goal is to slink out of spawn and hide in a corner until the WZ is over, then yes. you can almost always escape spawn. that doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the oppressive feel of being so overmatched that the other team is able to spawn camp you. so I really don't understand what you're trying to prove here? is it "ooh! someone said something that I can call erroneous on a technicality!"? Edited May 20, 2016 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruhun Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 (edited) As the guy usually watching to door, this doesnt work Point though is that if they were doing it right he wouldnt get it in the first place. Some people get lucky. You also would have to have tunnel vision for something like that to happen on most maps. If we're dominating that hard me and a few other dps push their node/try to cap it. When someone calls for east/south a part of the group breaks off to support it while another stays behind to continue harassing their node. .... no. you can't do this. you can't have it both ways. if your goal is to slink out of spawn and hide in a corner until the WZ is over, then yes. you can almost always escape spawn. that doesn't have any effect whatsoever on the oppressive feel of being so overmatched that the other team is able to spawn camp you. so I really don't understand what you're trying to prove here? is it "ooh! someone said something that I can call erroneous on a technicality!"? In every map there are at least two points where you can exit spawn. If your team is getting stomped then why would you continue to exit through the point with most opposition? Edited May 20, 2016 by Ruhun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 20, 2016 Share Posted May 20, 2016 good for you. most people (in the world) are not going to keep trying in a hopeless situation. and if you really need proof of this, have a look at the failure of the ranked format. I don't care if you're talking about 8v8, 4v4 or yolo. ppl play for a week. most of them find themselves getting face rolled by significantly higher levels of competition. so they stop queuing, and the queue dies aside from 2-4 elite teams. even yolo -- in every season -- just limps along because after a couple weeks, it's just the same 10-15 players hopping around on 8 different toons with a random 5 jawas coming and going to slaughter each day/week. And when they are tired, they go into regs. Or they go into it merely for "training". I often have the feeling that some even hop into Rep toons, ask for queuing in a certain bracket, hop back into Imp toons, and farm those innocent Newbies whi've naively followed this call ... At least I experienced such a thing a few times. So much stronger teams farming PUGs consisting of mere Newbies. Sometimes I believe that it might not always be pure competition ... I sometimes believe that in some players there is a component of sadism as well : Controlling and dominating weaker players. It would make the sadist feel good if he or she was wasming a helpless PUG with a so much stronger team. It would give the sadist a feeling of being good, a feeling of superiority, and of "I'm so much better than these scrubs". Especially bad if like-minded people find each other and form teams with the sole purpose of farming weaker players "because they deserve it" - maybe even under the guise of "competition", transparted to the outside world. It might even happen to hackers, that they hack only to have a feeling of superiority over everyone ele - trolling is a thing a sadist would love. Anticipating and then real knowing - through /say remarks - that the other team feels angered, frustrated etc. might produce a good feeling in a sadist. And, the worst thing is, sadists of this kind they might be very effective in hiding themselves among "real", competitive players. Thus making *all* PvP players look bad. Even those who want PvP "just for fun" or "for competition". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsfansix Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Mate, you're overthinking this. If the "helpless pugs", as you said, keep facing the same people over and over again and they continue to enter the queue, getting slaughtered each time, they deserve it. You need to know when to quit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Exactly why do they deserve it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsfansix Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Because from where I'm standing it looks as if the pugs are getting more and more frustrated with each warzone. Why will you continue to do something that gives you no satisfaction in a place where you're supposed to be spending your free time to have fun i.e. a videogame? Edited May 21, 2016 by starwarsfansix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Because from where I'm standing it looks as if the pugs are getting more and more frustrated with each warzone. Why will you continue to do something that gives you no satisfaction in a place where you're supposed to be spending your free time to have fun i.e. a videogame? You realize then you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy of doom for the game i assume right? You run the pugs out of PvP youll have noone left to farm or play but the other premades, ranked without the payoff. IE mental ************. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 You realize then you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy of doom for the game i assume right? You run the pugs out of PvP youll have noone left to farm or play but the other premades, ranked without the payoff. IE mental ************. Well, according to the premade apologists, its still the pugs' fault. If they don't like it, they should just go make premades of their own and stop the vicious cycle of losing. Usually, that sort of thinking goes on until there actually aren't any pugs left to play against, and finally PvP dies, as in no matches for days. Seen this happening in a lot of games during the two decades I've been playing online games. And guess what, even at that point, they still think its the pugs' fault ...as they just sit around in PvP chat and talk about good ol' days and why nobody PvPs any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsfansix Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 You realize then you are creating a self fulfilling prophecy of doom for the game i assume right? You run the pugs out of PvP youll have noone left to farm or play but the other premades, ranked without the payoff. IE mental ************. So? Maybe that's what's needed to end the premades here. I got farmed very hard for a couple of days on my main when he was still young and I told myself "F*ck it, I'll not queue then". And I stopped. For maybe more than an year. Did the queue times got longer for people on the server? Probably not. Did I save myself a lot of headaches? Probably yes. In the end, it's up to the person behind the keyboard. If you continue to hope that the next match will be different after 9 losses versus the same premade, then you're an idiot. If I keep facing the same people in more than 3 matches and they are all complete facestomps for my team, I'll take a 10 - 15 minute break. If the cycle continues after the break, then I'll either switch faction, do something completely different or log off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 So? Maybe that's what's needed to end the premades here. I got farmed very hard for a couple of days on my main when he was still young and I told myself "F*ck it, I'll not queue then". And I stopped. For maybe more than an year. Did the queue times got longer for people on the server? Probably not. Did I save myself a lot of headaches? Probably yes. In the end, it's up to the person behind the keyboard. If you continue to hope that the next match will be different after 9 losses versus the same premade, then you're an idiot. If I keep facing the same people in more than 3 matches and they are all complete facestomps for my team, I'll take a 10 - 15 minute break. If the cycle continues after the break, then I'll either switch faction, do something completely different or log off. I would prefer not to kill the game mode i enjoy personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icykill_ Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Because from where I'm standing it looks as if the pugs are getting more and more frustrated with each warzone. Why will you continue to do something that gives you no satisfaction in a place where you're supposed to be spending your free time to have fun i.e. a videogame? Not really a good way to keep a healthy population if people leave because they don't enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glower Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Well, according to the premade apologists, its still the pugs' fault. If they don't like it, they should just go make premades of their own and stop the vicious cycle of losing. Usually, that sort of thinking goes on until there actually aren't any pugs left to play against, and finally PvP dies, as in no matches for days. Seen this happening in a lot of games during the two decades I've been playing online games. And guess what, even at that point, they still think its the pugs' fault ...as they just sit around in PvP chat and talk about good ol' days and why nobody PvPs any more. Ignorance and elitism, how nice of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) the inability of all of you to acknowledge/accept the validity of the other side is comical. it's like listening to some political talk show on CNN where they get this Hillary supporter and this Donald supporter, and they both spew such blatant horse poo and paint their candidate as pure gold while the opponent is satan incarnate...I just don't understand what they're doing. does any sane person buy either one of these nutcases? (the ppl making the black and white arguments, not the candidates. hehe) Edited May 21, 2016 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starwarsfansix Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 I would prefer not to kill the game mode i enjoy personally. Then don't make fotm premades and don't leave matches with teammates that all share half a brain. I do that, but I have come to the realization that my choice isn't for everyone and if someone is not having fun in a place that's supposed to be all about fun, I can do nothing to stop them from leaving. Not really a good way to keep a healthy population if people leave because they don't enjoy it. I know, but I can only send whispers full of **** to the quitters at best, which may or may not further cement their decision to leave. Honestly, I've also tried explaining warzone tactics to blatant idiots, but they never listen so I gave up. the inability of all of you to acknowledge/accept the validity of the other side is comical. it's like listening to some political talk show on CNN where they get this Hillary supporter and this Donald supporter, and they both spew such blatant horse poo and paint their candidate as pure gold while the opponent is satan incarnate...I just don't understand what they're doing. does any sane person buy either one of these nutcases? (the ppl making the black and white arguments, not the candidates. hehe) Are you still talking about this thread, mate? Sounds like you went offtopic real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 Then don't make fotm premades and don't leave matches with teammates that all share half a brain. I do that, but I have come to the realization that my choice isn't for everyone and if someone is not having fun in a place that's supposed to be all about fun, I can do nothing to stop them from leaving. I know, but I can only send whispers full of **** to the quitters at best, which may or may not further cement their decision to leave. Honestly, I've also tried explaining warzone tactics to blatant idiots, but they never listen so I gave up. Are you still talking about this thread, mate? Sounds like you went offtopic real fast. i dont play fotm classes nor do i premade. I will on occasion group with friends and that rearely means anything resembling a rinity comp so... meh. i will leave matches if they are imbalanced, im not going to take a beating in the name of someone elses idea of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lhancelot Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 i will leave matches if they are imbalanced, im not going to take a beating in the name of someone elses idea of fun. wimp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floplag Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 wimp! Perhaps its the others that cant stand alone that have the problem with fortitude? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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