Class Changes Coming in Game Update 4.5

[FlavivsAetivs]

It's really only a nerf in PvP, where shadows are arguably one of the strongest classes right now. In PvE there are only a handful of fights where the nerf will show, and even those fights aren't really DPS checks.

 

Shadow Tanks wearing DPS gear are what make them strong. The actual DPS specs are underperforming in PvP and especially in PvE.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited May 13, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[T_T_P]

My only question regarding class balance is, when will Hatred/Serenity get their much needed dps buff? A squishy melee dps class should not have the lowest single target dps out of all classes.

[marekdusek]

The sage/sorc nerf shall balance the current spread in PvE healing classes - currently 57% of all healing parses done via StarParse are sages/sorcs.

 

Interestingly enough, although VG/PT DPS perform really great (and are a go-to class for the most difficult fights in the game), their share in DPS parses is somewhat subpar - roughly 8% (similar to guard/jugg, compared to 28% of mando/merc). I guess players just has not been appreciating their potentional enough, well too late now :-)

 

(Source: http://ixparse.com/stats )

[Loki_]

When are you going to address the fact that tanks do not need 3000 defense rating and fix the stats so gear has absorb mods again instead of too much defense ?

 

Why even create an enhancement with absorb and defense on it just for 4.0 it does not make sense what so ever Option 1 shield defense option 2 should have been shield absorb ..

[Superquarky]

Why did death field need a nerf exactly? It doesn't spread dots anymore, no designer notes either eh?

[Fixiooo]

I don't understand why Death Field / Force in Balance for Assassins / Shadows gets a nerf. It doesn't spread dots, so what is the reasoning for this change?

[Derzelaz]

Vanguard survivability currently surpasses the survivability of similar classes

 

Are you serious ? Are we even playing the same game ?

[Rollbacks]

I must say that I am a tab bit disappointed with the lack of changes or even a comment in regards to where Marksmanship/Sharpshooter (MM/SS) is heading following this balance patch. I think most of us can agree that MM/SS is trailing behind a bit to much in terms of DPS output and viability in bossfights. I have always held Sniper/Gunslinger high due to it's flexibility in terms of specc as the three are very different and shine in their own unique way. However, since 4.0 I have far from had the same feeling, early on MM/SS were far to high and made it the go-to specc for all bossfights, with the nerfs in the following patch (4.2?) Virulence became the favorite with Saboteur/Engineering being highly situational and MM/SS very rare.

 

If possible, I would love if the Combat Team would be able to take a look at MM/SS and give us a comment or even hint at possible changes in regards to how the specc performance currently, we have some discussions going on in this thread "Make Marksmanship Great Again", maybe take a look and give us some feedback?

 

Don't ignore this post or the link it redirects to, "Combat Team"

[GrandLordMenace]

Bioware.

 

Why.

 

Do not buff sage heal anything, just nerf the healing, nerf the coefficients across the board, just do it. Don't fiddle with the resource, don't do ANY of that, just hit them in the healing until it works right. If you have essentially BOTTOMLESS resource like a Sorc currently has, and it's extremely easy and has a low APM requirement to increase your resource, it's going to be very easy to play a Sorc healer.

 

PT tanks do not need a survivability nerf. PT tank survivability does not matter for PvP, and it's very shmeh for PvE, the tanks are relatively well balanced.

 

What they need for PvP is a nerf to their cleave damage, they have the most cleave out of all the tanks and Carbonize does very low resolve and is a hardstun, you can use 3 carbonizes on a single player, plus a PT tank is essentially an extra .75 DPS player on your team. Nerf. the living christ. out of PT cleave. Do not touch AP DPS, nerf carbonize. Nerf nerf nerf carbonize. IDC how you do it, but it either needs a giant resolve increase, or needs to be made a mezz like Awe.

 

Also, why no buffs for the classes woefully behind in ranked? What's up with the lowrollers like snipers, commandoes, Guardians, who are dealing with minuscule amounts of people in tier 1, especially guardians who have an insanely close amount of people to Sorcs in terms of player base, yet have the least amount of people at tier 1? What then?

[Savej]

Lol, I guess those 100 vanguards/pts with 1600+ solo rating are all tanks then.

 

Yea... PTs have the best average rating in the game by a wide margin - looking at the top rated characters or the top 1%, 5% or 50% of each AC. The majority of PTs are not tanks (I can't prove that but I would be very surprised if that wasn't true - they're a popular AC in solo ranked). If dps PTs were really in a bad place they would be bringing the average rating of the AC down but they aren't.

[Aeries_Holley]

Eric, possible talk to the team about holding off on the dot heals changes for a bit? (Parasitism for madness sorcs, Focused Insight for balance sages) Feels like a double hit w/ the reduced radius on dot spreading, already losing some survivability there as less targets will have the dots on them for healing purposes. I feel you might possibly swing the pendulum too far the other way introducing both changes at once.

[nwhaxyz]

I don't understand why Death Field / Force in Balance for Assassins / Shadows gets a nerf. It doesn't spread dots, so what is the reasoning for this change?

They swtor designers don't know that force in balance for shadows doesn't spread dots anymore (not that they are playing the game you know ), and has a 10m range as a bonus .

[CraigOnXD]

I think Deception Assassin needs a small dmg buff. Dot is fine.

[Consular_Bob]

Interesting post, in particular to this statement: "Powertechs are melee onslaught specialists ". If this is the case, please explain:

 

01 - 7068 - +6.90% --- Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman

02 - 6857 - +3.71% --- Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat

 

vs

 

08 - 6645 - +0.50% --- Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech

16 - 6439 - -2.61% --- Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics

 

Who are the melee onslaught specialists again?

 

Oh, and also, it seems sorc healers are getting a buff, not a nerf!

Edited May 13, 2016 by Consular_Bob

[LudhaninRolgge]

Bioware.

 

Why.

 

Do not buff sage heal anything, just nerf the healing, nerf the coefficients across the board, just do it. Don't fiddle with the resource, don't do ANY of that, just hit them in the healing until it works right. If you have essentially BOTTOMLESS resource like a Sorc currently has, and it's extremely easy and has a low APM requirement to increase your resource, it's going to be very easy to play a Sorc healer.

 

They're doing 3.3 all over again. The class will still be very powerful, just not fun to play because you'd have to spam vindicate every 3 GCD in order to keep your force somewhat under control.

[Savej]

Interesting post, in particular to this statement: "Powertechs are melee onslaught specialists ". If this is the case, please explain:

 

01 - 7068 - +6.90% --- Marauder - Annihilation || Sentinel - Watchman

02 - 6857 - +3.71% --- Marauder - Carnage || Sentinel - Combat

 

vs

 

08 - 6645 - +0.50% --- Powertech - Pyrotech || Vanguard - Plasmatech

16 - 6439 - -2.61% --- Powertech - Advanced Prototype || Vanguard - Tactics

 

Who are the melee onslaught specialists again?

 

Oh, and also, it seems sorc healers are getting a buff, not a nerf!

 

PTs have more cc and more aoe and more mobility than maras. The game isn't just about dps charts.

[Consular_Bob]

PTs have more cc and more aoe and more mobility than maras. The game isn't just about dps charts.

 

So, as I stated, melee onslaught specialists are marauders not PT's. Maybe the Dev's have got their classes mixed up? cc's really help in boss fights because they are not immune right? I am talking from a PVE point of view and not a pvp whiner. PT's got nerfed thanks to pvp rage quiters and this change is in my opinion is pvp based yet again.

[Diviciacus]

This right here is how patch notes SHOULD be done.

 

You give us a change, tell us why, and everyone is - if not happy - at least understanding of the why.

 

You done good today, Eric.

[FireFoxed]

Sith Inquisitor

Sorcerer

• Dark Heal now has a base cost of 70 Force (up from 55 Force) and heals for slightly more (.49%).
  
• Resurgence now has a base cost of 40 Force (up from 30 Force) and heals for a bit more (4.94% for the instant heal, and 3.70% for the heal over time.).
  
• Static Barrier now has a base cost of 45 Force (up from 35 Force) and absorbs slightly more damage (1.43%).
  

Corruption

• Dark Infusion now has a base cost of 45 Force (up from 37) and heals for a bit more (3.25%).
  
• Innervate now has a base cost of 60 Force (up from 48) and heals for a bit more (4.04%).
  
• Revivification now has a base cost of 75 Force (up from 60).
  
• Roaming Mend now has a base cost of 65 Force (up from 50) and heals for slightly more (1.28%).
  
• The healing done by Renewal has been increased (by 3.70%) to match the healing done by the heal over time portion of Resurgence.
  
• Penetrating Darkness now increases your bonus healing by 3% (down from 5%)
  

Designer Note: Corruption Sorcerers are presently exceptional healers who outperform the other healing disciplines in the game and create unbalanced PvE and PvP scenarios. By increasing the Force costs of heals—and counterbalancing the cost increase with a slight healing boost—we are leveling the healing potential of the Corruption Sorcerer to better fit alongside other healing disciplines and combat encounters witnessed in game.

 

Some may wonder why we did not just increase the healing capabilities of the other healing disciplines in the game to match that of the Corruption Sorcerer. In this instance, we could not do that because all of the combat math for the game (both PvE and PvP) is balanced around the current healing capabilities of the other healing disciplines. So if we were to increase the healing capabilities of the other healing disciplines to match the healing capabilities of the Corruption Sorcerer, then healing would be more effective than intended, which would cause problems in both PvE and PvP.

 

We decided to increase Force costs and slightly improve the strength of individual healing abilities in this balancing initiative to prevent Corruption Sorcerers from feeling impotent following these changes. Burst healing should feel like what is on Live, yet the sustained healing experience will be notably decreased. This design lowers the average healing output of the Corruption Sorcerer to better match other healing disciplines while still allowing the Sorcerer’s individual heals to make an impact.

 

This is a terrible idea. The reason Corruption is so powerful right now is the last round of class balance did exactly this, increase resource cost and "counterbalancing" with higher healing. Corruption has the easiest resource management of the healers so all that does is increase Corruption burst healing with minor impact on sustained.

 

if a class is too powerful you nerf it, you don't compensate with "counterbalancing." Do the right thing and just nerf corruption with higher resource costs - don't buff burst healing which is already in a good place compared to other healers.

Edited May 13, 2016 by FireFoxed

[Andryah]

So, as I stated, melee onslaught specialists are marauders not PT's. Maybe the Dev's have got their classes mixed up? cc's really help in boss fights because they are not immune right? I am talking from a PVE point of view and not a pvp whiner. PT's got nerfed thanks to pvp rage quiters and this change is in my opinion is pvp based yet again.

 

Well, I don't see this as a PvP vs PvE thing.

 

Maybe... it's not all that black and white where simple difference in raw DPS = the definition of melee onslaught.

 

I look at the term melee onslaught as a term that defines the primary intent of the class in terms of how it engages targets. NOT.... how it does it in terms of any raw stats/data nor what = best of the best.

 

A total difference in one particular aspect of a classes abilities.... in this case DPS... of 5-10% is not unreasonable, except maybe for min/max number crunchers. There is more to game play then just the excel spreadsheets though. Utility is valuable in PvE and PvP, and does not translate well into spreadsheets. Even group PvE is not balanced around a class, but rather a group and a range of classes.

Edited May 13, 2016 by Andryah

[Tsetso]

So, as I stated, melee onslaught specialists are marauders not PT's. Maybe the Dev's have got their classes mixed up? cc's really help in boss fights because they are not immune right? I am talking from a PVE point of view and not a pvp whiner. PT's got nerfed thanks to pvp rage quiters and this change is in my opinion is pvp based yet again.

 

The big difference is that in actual boss fight you have to add the damage from reflective armor and pyro shield

[llayles]

I wish I could say I'm surprised at more PT nerfs. I really honest to god do.

[Gwena]

The designer's notes are nice to read, thanks for including them. My personal takes:

 

Assassin: why, oh why, is my poor Assassin getting nerfed. I hate how he always seems to get nerfed and changed in irritating ways, usually because of "PvP issues". Grrr.

 

Sage: I don't care for PvP, but when I tried it on my Sage I died enough that resources didn't really matter. Of course, I am a terrible PvP'er, but the increased force costs probably wouldn't hurt me in short encounters (as PvP encounters often are) while the output increase would help. Seems like a good type of nerf for the Ops crowd though?

 

Vanguard: the range nerf solidifies my decision to not include my Vanguard in my small group of "mains". I'm not a big fan of straight up in your face melee characters, but I kinda liked the Vanguard as it felt like more of a mid-range fighter, which made sense with the rifle. Not a big deal to me at all, but I'd be annoyed if I'd been more invested in my Vanguard.

 

I'm a bit disappointed that there aren't any changes for Operatives/Scoundrels. My Op healer has utterly pitiful DPS compared to my Merc and Sage healers. And don't get me started on carbine burst!

[Durokon]

Wait wait wait....so you are actively making Powertechs useless outside of melee combat by reducing the range of Railshot?....good to know. Because now im F#$%'D if the jet charge is on cooldown and need to do damage to close the distance. Anyone who says that the basic attack/pistol fire should be enough, no its not...it does F$%K all for damage.

[sithBracer]

So, as I stated, melee onslaught specialists are marauders not PT's. Maybe the Dev's have got their classes mixed up? cc's really help in boss fights because they are not immune right? I am talking from a PVE point of view and not a pvp whiner. PT's got nerfed thanks to pvp rage quiters and this change is in my opinion is pvp based yet again.

 

These graphs tell a different story:

http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=2&mode=HM&type=DPS&class=Vanguard&order=rating&dir=d

http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=31&mode=HM&type=DPS&class=Vanguard&order=rating&dir=d

http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=25&mode=HM&type=DPS&class=Vanguard&order=rating&dir=d

http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=10&mode=HM&type=DPS&class=Vanguard&order=rating&dir=d

(I picked the hardest bosses on hm btw).

 

EDIT-I'll add styrak as well even though he is only hard during the burn phase: http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=20&mode=HM&type=DPS&class=Vanguard&order=rating&dir=d

 

I don't consider this a hard one but the dps check is real there to avoid 2 DDs so: http://ixparse.com/rating/?boss=40&mode=HM&type=DPS&class=Vanguard&order=rating&dir=d

Edited May 13, 2016 by sithBracer