Eternal Championship is a joke

[thebobmaster]

You keep waving that thing around, someone's likely to get hurt.

 

"You'll put your eye out, kid!"

[DieAlteHexe]

"You'll put your eye out, kid!"

 

Exactly.

[Vhaegrant]

I mean wasn't it supposed to be this arena with super hard fights that would even push the best players in the best gear to the limit.

Nope. It is meant to be a solo experience that introduces boss fight mechanics without needing to enter an Operation.

 

The last fights are there to give intermediate players a bit of a challenge.

 

Players that have characters geared up and have been running NiM (probably even Hm) Operations should breeze through EC.

 

If you want to see who EC was aimed at just look at the gear rewards.

 

But let's be honest, if you really wanted to demonstrate your elite skills you'd post a YouTube clip... or maybe show your name in the ranked PvP season lists.

[Liquor]

it was easy. and i too was in pvp gear.

 

Pre-4.0 Hard Mode Flashpoints were more of a challenge SOLO than the Eternal Championship...that was with better geared companions compared to these garbage companions we have currently Post-4.0

 

 

i just dont see where people would have issues...

[DieAlteHexe]

it was easy. and i too was in pvp gear.

 

Pre-4.0 Hard Mode Flashpoints were more of a challenge SOLO than the Eternal Championship...that was with better geared companions compared to these garbage companions we have currently Post-4.0

 

 

i just dont see where people would have issues...

 

Because we come in all levels of skill, experience, gear, abilities, reflexes etc.

 

Not sure why that's so hard for some people to understand.

[Vhaegrant]

Not sure why that's so hard for some people to understand.

 

Because they only think about themselves.

[DieAlteHexe]

Because they only think about themselves.

 

Good point.

[Jedi_riches]

I have yet to try EC since I only have my sorc available to do it with but I can't say I am looking forward to trying it based on this feedback.

 

One thing I have noted in this thread is one or 2 people commenting that this is comparative to HM ops, if that's the case should this not be comparative to SM ops? if the idea is to get new/casual people used to operations then who would be jumping into HM operations first should it not be in order or difficulty EC/SM ops < HM Ops?

 

My biggest fear was although EC was posted on the PTS was that the majority of the target audience never took part in testing, so any calls for nerfs may actually be more representative now that the target audience has tried it.

[BadHoneyBadger]

Glad you found the Eternal Championship so easy. Look around the forum, and you'll find plenty of people to disagree with you. I'm sorry that there still isn't anything challenging enough for you. Have you tried Dark Souls? Might be more your type of game.

 

 

OK, all snark aside, I don't agree with you at all about it being a joke, or easy. I still haven't been able to get past round 7, and I've heard plenty of people say the same, or even having problems getting that far. If you find it easy or a joke, that's fine. Just realize that there are plenty of people who would say otherwise.

The OP could be playing a Jugg as I have played it on every advance class and does serve some difficulty even with a 220/224 set bonus for most classes. However on Jugg I just blew through it and this is especially true on the last boss during the beam ability he does after the first phase. I popped saber reflect during the channel and the boss went down from 70% to about 35% pushing it into the last phase. Like I said of all classes Jugg (Vengence) was the easiest as I blew through it.

[Phyreblade]

I mean wasn't it supposed to be this arena with super hard fights that would even push the best players in the best gear to the limit.

 

***.

 

No. It wasn't.

 

It was originally described as an opportunity for newer players or players returning to the game, to have a space where they could "learn" Operations-mechanics in arena-style focused fights that could net them basic-level gear in preparation for Operations. As I understood it, the Eternal Championship was a valuable tool for players looking to stick their toes into Operations-style gameplay, without earning the ire of groups that often expect everyone to "already know" how to play their character and class before moving through the big, shiny doorway.

 

For me personally, I'm using the Eternal Championship as an arena to hone skills in classes I've leveled up but not really played regularly enough to be comfortable in a real competitive hard-mode Operation with; so I'm pretty happy with it. Mind you, I did venture in there with my favorite Scoundrel and cleared it pretty simply. But so what? THAT character was wearing my full Legacy set, complete with 224s and augments in every slot AND the experience to back it up. I don't imagine taking my brand new end-game Marauder through the Eternal Championship is going to be half so easy, on the other hand.

[light_senshi]

It's not a joke. I tried it with a primarily 190 speced lightning sorceress (with a level 47 influence Ashara) and pretty much got my butt kicked thoroughly once I got to round 4. I only managed to complete round 4 once and never round 5 in spite of spending about an hour trying.

 

So no, it's not a joke.

[Warlocc]

As a somewhat experienced Juggernaut in 208/216 gear with an influence 15 companion, I had trouble with it come fights 6 and 7. Died once on 6 and got it the second time, but gave up after 3 deaths on fight 7. The rewards just aren't worth it.

 

Going to get some 220 gear and a higher level companion to see if it makes a difference. I suspect it will.

 

Is it too hard right now? I'm not sure.

 

I will say this- I have friends that have trouble with Heroic content. One of them, she's the definition of a casual player. Slow reaction times, keyboard turner, the whole nine. She enjoys playing the game for the strongholds and outfit designer, though. I picture her in the EC, and I can say it's definitely not "too easy".

[Jedi_riches]

As a somewhat experienced Juggernaut in 208/216 gear with an influence 15 companion, I had trouble with it come fights 6 and 7. Died once on 6 and got it the second time, but gave up after 3 deaths on fight 7. The rewards just aren't worth it.

 

Going to get some 220 gear and a higher level companion to see if it makes a difference. I suspect it will.

 

Is it too hard right now? I'm not sure.

 

I will say this- I have friends that have trouble with Heroic content. One of them, she's the definition of a casual player. Slow reaction times, keyboard turner, the whole nine. She enjoys playing the game for the strongholds and outfit designer, though. I picture her in the EC, and I can say it's definitely not "too easy".

 

Pretty steep price just for strongholds and outfit designer

 

I would hazard a guess that those that can find EC a joke are the same as the raiding community only a part of the whole community where most are either like your friend or somewhere in between.

[Lil_Fusion]

I mean wasn't it supposed to be this arena with super hard fights that would even push the best players in the best gear to the limit.

 

My thoughts on this from Biowares Dev posts was that it was aimed to help players understand mechanics and how they work, not make some solo nightmare level content where you need full BiS gear to compete with. You can do it in less than your PvP gear item rating and people have stay out of stupid and your companion will keep you up through it all.

 

The elite are the ones competing for the fastest times to win free stuff.

 

It's not a joke. I tried it with a primarily 190 speced lightning sorceress (with a level 47 influence Ashara) and pretty much got my butt kicked thoroughly once I got to round 4. I only managed to complete round 4 once and never round 5 in spite of spending about an hour trying.

 

So no, it's not a joke.

 

This sounds like a L2P issue. Because the first 5 bosses are a joke. 6 Can be a hassle but that's it 7-10 are a joke as well, but all the fights except 10 are do-able with a DPS companion while you DPS as well. Wouldn't surprise me if 10 can be done without a heal companion too. I never tried it and got a 14:30 speed run with that setup.

 

As a somewhat experienced Juggernaut in 208/216 gear with an influence 15 companion, I had trouble with it come fights 6 and 7. Died once on 6 and got it the second time, but gave up after 3 deaths on fight 7. The rewards just aren't worth it.

 

7 Isn't even that hard.. The grenades that Drake throws stun Nocturno, use them to your advantage, and kill Drake once Drake is dead he drops the belt which you can use to throw out more grenades to stun Nocturno, after about 30 seconds Nocturno stuns himself after his wild rage ability and takes increased damage and does no damage. It's not that tough. You can do it with what gear you have. Again L2P issue. Can be done in less than the gear you have. It's not aimed for 220/224 BiS itemized.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Lil_Fusion

[Warlocc]

Pretty steep price just for strongholds and outfit designer

 

What can I say, she likes playing the interactive movie.

 

I would hazard a guess that those that can find EC a joke are the same as the raiding community only a part of the whole community where most are either like your friend or somewhere in between.

 

Right. I'm sure I can get it if I actually use some of my abilities and lay off the tunnel vision a little. I'm not concerned about players like myself or better, I'm more concerned about ones closer to the range of my friend.

 

My thoughts on this from Biowares Dev posts was that it was aimed to help players understand mechanics and how they work, not make some solo nightmare level content where you need full BiS gear to compete with. You can do it in less than your PvP gear item rating and people have stay out of stupid and your companion will keep you up through it all.

 

The elite are the ones competing for the fastest times to win free stuff.

 

This sounds like a L2P issue. Because the first 5 bosses are a joke. 6 Can be a hassle but that's it 7-10 are a joke as well, but all the fights except 10 are do-able with a DPS companion while you DPS as well. Wouldn't surprise me if 10 can be done without a heal companion too. I never tried it and got a 14:30 speed run with that setup.

 

7 Isn't even that hard.. The grenades that Drake throws stun Nocturno, use them to your advantage, and kill Drake once Drake is dead he drops the belt which you can use to throw out more grenades to stun Nocturno, after about 30 seconds Nocturno stuns himself after his wild rage ability and takes increased damage and does no damage. It's not that tough. You can do it with what gear you have. Again L2P issue. Can be done in less than the gear you have. It's not aimed for 220/224 BiS itemized.

 

Did you hear that woosh sound? That was the sound of you missing the point. For those of us paying attention to the mechanics, jumping on the adds, and having decent gear it's one thing. But most players are not at that level. Hell, many players keyboard turn, have no keybinds, and take 3-5 seconds to get out of the bad. Imagine one of those players trying it?

[Vhaegrant]

Pretty steep price just for strongholds and outfit designer

 

I would hazard a guess that those that can find EC a joke are the same as the raiding community only a part of the whole community where most are either like your friend or somewhere in between.

 

What's a steep price?

[Jedi_riches]

What's a steep price?

 

i.e. the sub but I was meaning it in jest anyway.

[Vhaegrant]

i.e. the sub but I was meaning it in jest anyway.

 

Sorry, bit sensitive to the 'Want all content for free' crowd that seem to litter the internet these days.

A days subscription to SWTOR comes in at about half the price of a chocolate bar here in the UK.

Hardly bank breaking

 

Considering how much some are willing to spend on vanity fluff from the cartel packs, the sub price pales into insignificance.

 

But, it was meant in jest so I won't bang on about it

[Nkya]

It's not a joke. I tried it with a primarily 190 speced lightning sorceress (with a level 47 influence Ashara) and pretty much got my butt kicked thoroughly once I got to round 4. I only managed to complete round 4 once and never round 5 in spite of spending about an hour trying.

 

So no, it's not a joke.

 

For round 5, you need to interrupt the adds in its back (with force push for instance) and optionally kill them (if you have survivability issue you should). You could use phase walk or force speed to run off the AOE.

If you have trouble to survive, use the Heroic moment and Unity. Kill reinforcements, unless you're very close to finish the boss.

 

This sounds like a L2P issue. Because the first 5 bosses are a joke. 6 Can be a hassle but that's it 7-10 are a joke as well, but all the fights except 10 are do-able with a DPS companion while you DPS as well. Wouldn't surprise me if 10 can be done without a heal companion too. I never tried it and got a 14:30 speed run with that setup..

 

People with 190 gear are likely not augmented and miss the 20k health the raider and PvPer have.

 

Anyway, all boss can be done as DPS with DPS companion, thanks to the proper use of the buffs, gear and kolto station. The trick is to do them all in a raw with such a layout. For boss 10 I'm using 1 or 2 kolto station depending of the spec: one for general healing, the second one to survive to the beam if the character has no strong cooldowns or can't burst before it ends. For Boss 6 (brawler is friend), you want to use a melee companion if you set it to DPS or tank.

[IanArgent]

The big problem with EC is WHERE what difficulty there is, is placed.

 

Nearly all of the mechanics have minimal penalties for failing them, and the majority of damage received is just unavoidable and has to be healed through. This makes gear the more important factor.

 

This goes against the idea of EC being to teach mechanics. It teaches people to go get better gear, and respec. You can take your time getting out of fire, not worry about getting knocked back into it, kill the wrong boss first, etc. This can encourage people to ignore mechanics, since you can do more damage then.

 

A perfect example of this is boss 10s focused laser. There's not really much to do about it for most classes. You can pop an ability to mitigate a small portion, but there's no mechanic. No interrupt, passing off to another person, cleansing, nothing. If you have the right class/spec, it's worthless. If you have the wrong ones, it's a nightmare. If your gear is good, it's trivialized. If your gear sucks, it's much worse.

 

They should reduce the base damage, then change mechanics to hit for a percentage of life and add more mechanics.

 

Additionally, this is teaching DPSers to burn as hard and fast as they can. In HMs and OPs this leads to a dead DPSer and failure.

 

Ideally, there would be 6 slight variations. ( Melee or ranged + Tank, Heal or DPS. ) Normal companions not allowed. Instead, you get a special bot that acts as your counterpoint. For example, if you are a Tank, it would be a high aggro DPSer, forcing you to handle aggro on the bosses. If you're DPSer, it would be a lower aggro tank, that you must avoid out-aggroing. If you're a healer, it's a low survivability pair of tanks that you must keep alive. Each mode would have minor tweaks to the HP and damage of enemies to account for the different classes.

 

THAT would actually teach mechanics and team work, while not clearly favoring specific classes/specs and minimizing the drastic difference of gear. ( While gear is important in FPs/OPs, people already know that. This should be just about teaching HOW to do them, not what is needed. )

 

That's a crying shame - that they didn't force people to respect the mechanics or take non-damage penalties and made it stat-dependent for survival. Admittedly, if it's prep for Ops, that's what Ops appear to be...

[IanArgent]

I mean wasn't it supposed to be this arena with super hard fights that would even push the best players in the best gear to the limit.

 

Nope - this was explicitly supposed to be an "on-ramp" to bring players inexperienced with group content and undergeared for same up to speed to be able to do Story Mode Ops. The last couple of bosses might be tuned a bit above that, but not by much.

[Rabenschwinge]

In my opinion the mechanics, as such, are more complicated to deal with than most hardmode bosses.

 

Fight 6 is somewhat reminiscent of the Beastmaster in Mandalorian Raiders, but more complicated: The beasts can be stunned (hard stuns only) and taunted, but they deal a lot more damage, especially when they group up. There are temporary invulnerability effects. This entire kiting the boss while simultaneously killing one of the beasts is a bit straining, whereas in Mandalorian Raiders it just a matter of the tank keeping the boss busy while the damage dealers need to focus on one beast first.

 

Lance Squadron Unit 1 in Battle of Rishi is one of the harder flashpoint bosses and somewhat reminiscent of fights 9 and ten. You have the little effect circles (always dodge them away from your team mates) you have the adds (but those can be pushed off if you get them at their spawn point), you have the floor patterns with increasing difficulty. There is also an instant death effect, but that's really more a relaxation phase. You run to the platform, click the terminal, have a sip from your drink and prepare yourself mentally for the next phase while being healed up. The difficulty increases by making the patterns of area effects larger and larger, leaving less and less space for the players.

 

It does not contain enemy effects you can use to your advantage if you anticipate them correctly. It does not usually contain a mindless companion who won't dodge any effect (many players react to slow, but the fewest of them are entirely ignorant), it does not contain exploding robot with serious damage yield, not death lasers. The add groups do not become larger if you take too long, nor can the walker repair when if you don't burn the pilot quick enough.

 

Most people would probably describe Lost Island, Hard Mode, as relatively difficult and the fact of the matter is that most groups from the group finder fail. But that's not due to diverse mechanics, but due to the enrage timers, raw baseline damage. Most groups with a member who hasn't done it before wipe at the bosses. Take the guy that jumps onto the pipes. Well you have to click the terminals, which is unusual, but hardly a sophisticated mechanic. Before the fight you say which of the tank and the damage dealers say which and it isn't a big deal or by any means difficult. When he charges that stomping thing you run into him. If you're not paying attention, you run into him when your team mates do.

 

The final boss in Lost Island is in fact a joke. The only mechanic that matters is the enrage timer and the rest is almost painfully obvious. I remember when I was there with a totally in-experienced group. It had taken us a long time to get there, it was 1am in my time zone (central europe) and mindnight in Britain. All members had shown a great team spirit, but we were simply exhausted. The tactics were literally laid out as: "Let's just hit him until he's dead." And it worked. He ran into the enrage, I was the last team member standing (because I had used Force Cloak to drop aggro a little before he enraged) and down to ten percent when I struck the final blow, but it worked. It's fairly obvious to not stand in the poison and hey, when the boss disappears and those containers open, you just continue hitting whatever is at hand.

 

So, while there is a lot less damage thrown around and the enemies burn faster, I am inclined to say the mechanics are at least par with the hardest HM flashpoint bosses. Maybe Lance Squadron Unit 1 in Battle of Rishi and Mentor in Directive 7, if you solo it as a tactical can keep up. But that's it.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Rabenschwinge

[rklontz]

I mean wasn't it supposed to be this arena with super hard fights that would even push the best players in the best gear to the limit.

 

I did it in pvp gear with a level 1 companion died once to the insta kill thing, I didnt know would happen.

 

Video or it didn't happen.

[Renata_Roselli]

Basically, the Eternal Championship is not for experienced and skilled players. It's way too easy for us. Completely destroying every round with ease and without dying was not meant for those players. The mechanics in the Eternal Championship from boss encounters rival a "Heroic" NPC on a starter planet. You can ignore 99% of the mechanics. To be honest, I rarely seen any mechanic to even follow in EC. It's embarrassing that BioWare announced that EC would test skilled players yet I haven't seen anything in EC that tested myself. It was literally a waste of time for crappy 208 drops.

[CrazyCT]

Basically, the Eternal Championship is not for experienced and skilled players. It's way too easy for us. Completely destroying every round with ease and without dying was not meant for those players. The mechanics in the Eternal Championship from boss encounters rival a "Heroic" NPC on a starter planet. You can ignore 99% of the mechanics. To be honest, I rarely seen any mechanic to even follow in EC. It's embarrassing that BioWare announced that EC would test skilled players yet I haven't seen anything in EC that tested myself. It was literally a waste of time for crappy 208 drops.

 

Yeah, it totally sucks when you're too 1337 for the content. Bioware pandering to the normal players again.