Shadow useless at warzones?

[megacandy]

Just getting into warzones here, and so far zero for three. Is it just me, or is the Jedi Shadow completely unsuited to warzones? Apparently, the opposing team can break my stealth at-will, stun me at-will and throw off stuns themselves at-will. Meanwhile, the action is too quick to position for a back-stab, and enemy stuns accumulate faster than my Force of Will refreshes.

[Volthammer]

Just getting into warzones here, and so far zero for three. Is it just me, or is the Jedi Shadow completely unsuited to warzones? Apparently, the opposing team can break my stealth at-will, stun me at-will and throw off stuns themselves at-will. Meanwhile, the action is too quick to position for a back-stab, and enemy stuns accumulate faster than my Force of Will refreshes.

 

What level is your character? If you're below level 20 then that's the whole problem. You need the utility that raises your stealth level. Shadows are extremely effective in WZ's.

[megacandy]

Thanks for the reply, but no: I'm at level 60 :-/

[Savej]

It's not a good time to learn to pvp in this game at the moment. You're going to run up against many very organized teams full of people that have played this game for hundreds if not thousands of hours. And the numerous aoe stuns, mezzes, roots, snares and knockbacks that a coordinated team can spam you and every other melee with are going to make sure your playtime is spent in limited control of your character. Dulfy.net has some guides and I recommend you Google "SWTOR pvp YouTube" and watch some videos before diving in. Good luck.

[LadyDarkkitten]

Thanks for the reply, but no: I'm at level 60 :-/

 

Sorry to say your doing it wrong. First off I don't know which spec you are in. Either way you shouldn't be finding not being able to maul a game breaker. Stealth wise you have to be aware of enemy aoe that might break you out. If your approaching a guard you should be using black out to increase your stealth abilty. To guard against stuns you have a utilty and Resilience. You should also be specced for force emersion.

 

For any more detailed advice I need more infomation. Can you tell me what spec you are and give some examples of where you are struggling? describe some encounters for us?

[teclado]

This should help: http://dulfy.net/2016/01/01/swtor-4-0-infiltration-shadow-pvp-guide-by-krea/

 

Another thing to note: republic side is generally not so good, depending on your server. On the harbinger, for example, Repubs get destroyed most of the time. If you want a better experience, you may have to switch over to an Assassin.

Edited April 28, 2016 by teclado

[Lhancelot]

I wondered this too, if hatred sin was viable in solo ranked. Do the dots get purged too much to do anything in a 4v4 ranked matches?

[blodvite]

Hatred is very viable in ranked.

[kweassa]

I wondered this too, if hatred sin was viable in solo ranked. Do the dots get purged too much to do anything in a 4v4 ranked matches?

 

I know its like a madness/balance sorc/sage on steroids, and plays out this really fun game of "anything it cannot kite it melees, and anything it cannot melee it kites".

 

Among the three disciplines for sin/shad hatred/balance is my favorite, almost perfect "middle-ground" hybrid between melee and range, although noticeably frail than compared to the other two, and requires really meticulous setting up and planning. When that works, it's awesome, when something goes wrong, everything comes crashing down.

 

It should do well in ranked as well, IMO, but probably dumped for other class/roles since the current meta is just dominatingly slanted towards to "outheal+outlast".

 

I think it's in one of those "it's not bad or anything, but why put one in the team when you can have other, clearly better class?" type of situation these days, along with a few other class/disciplines that are unpopular.

Edited April 29, 2016 by kweassa

[Lhancelot]

I know its like a madness/balance sorc/sage on steroids, and plays out this really fun game of "anything it cannot kite it melees, and anything it cannot melee it kites".

 

that's an interesting concept on the gameplay, never thought about it like that... Might be a good way to play the class I will try to keep that in mind.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lhancelot

[DarrelK]

Hatred sin destroys sages and juggs with ease. Yes, it is more than viable in this sage meta. The bad matchups usually are those with tank vgs. Your impact is much lower then, but it still is pretty high. The only drawback of hatred is that you are not a sage.

 

As for OP - use keybinds. If the action is too fast for you to use Maul, this means that you are 1) keyboard turning and 2) clicking. Fix those 2 major mechanical issues and you will find that shadow is actually pretty strong in reg warzones.

[Jedi_riches]

Don't know about that my 'best' performance in a warzone (and take that lightly I am still terrible) was with a very low level shadow (something in the level 15 range) it could just have been a bad opposition but it was the most fun I ever had in a warzone to date.

[megacandy]

It's not a good time to learn to pvp in this game at the moment.

 

Interesting. Would you say PvP is effectively closed to new players for the present time?

 

For any more detailed advice I need more infomation. Can you tell me what spec you are and give some examples of where you are struggling? describe some encounters for us?

 

Not that it seems to matter, but Serenity with Celerity, Misdirection, Snaring Strikes, Fade, Egress and Motion Control. As I said, stealth seems useless, Force Cloak does nothing, and if the Shadow isn't supposed to be backstabbing, isn't he just a third-rate spellcaster?

 

Another thing to note: republic side is generally not so good, depending on your server. On the harbinger, for example, Repubs get destroyed most of the time. If you want a better experience, you may have to switch over to an Assassin.

 

That might explain quite a lot. Would anyone care to share their experiences on other servers?

[Romeugues]

That might explain quite a lot. Would anyone care to share their experiences on other servers?

I tranfered from Shadowlands to Harb and pubs were just as bad if not worse ts pvp there without premades as they are in the harb

[LadyDarkkitten]

Interesting. Would you say PvP is effectively closed to new players for the present time?

 

no defintely not

 

Not that it seems to matter, but Serenity with Celerity, Misdirection, Snaring Strikes, Fade, Egress and Motion Control. As I said, stealth seems useless, Force Cloak does nothing, and if the Shadow isn't supposed to be backstabbing, isn't he just a third-rate spellcaster?

 

Your doing it wrong. Sorry but its true. If I could figure out how to stream I would make you a simple youtube guide. unfortuantely I can't. However theres quite a few people who linked guides and such. like this: http://dulfy.net/2016/01/02/swtor-4-0-serenity-shadow-pvp-guide-by-krea/ should be considered primer reading.

 

Force cloak isn't useless, but if your relying on it solely as an escape tool and your using it to escape fights your losing badly, yes your going to find people aoeing or using a stealthscan to immediately pull you back out of stealth and then kill you. either use it offensively or use a bit of cc and gain distance/ line of sight before you vanish. My favourite trick for this in a hutball is to drop into a pit THEN vanish. Your backstab comment shows how you really don't understand your spec and thats probably contributing to your frustration

 

 

That might explain quite a lot. Would anyone care to share their experiences on other servers?

 

On JC and red eclipse I found rep pvp while leveling soul destroying. At 65? its ok espec now we have the new WZ so we play with the imps. I got my shadow nearly full 208 now and its alot of fun. Only problem is queue times, that can suck abit on JC. TRE I don't play so much on any more.

[megacandy]

Your doing it wrong.

 

I'll stipulate to that,

 

My favourite trick for this in a hutball is to drop into a pit THEN vanish.

 

Sounds awfully terrain-dependent. What about open arenas?

 

Your backstab comment shows how you really don't understand your spec and thats probably contributing to your frustration

 

Agreed, but is it your contention that the backstab has no utility? If it's pure DoT, they might have called it a "Jedi Flower Arranger" instead of "Shadow".

[QuiveringPotato]

I'll stipulate to that,

 

 

 

Sounds awfully terrain-dependent. What about open arenas?

 

 

 

Agreed, but is it your contention that the backstab has no utility? If it's pure DoT, they might have called it a "Jedi Flower Arranger" instead of "Shadow".

 

Maul/Shadow Strike or w/e it's called for pubs shouldn't be used at all if you're playing Serenity.

[megacandy]

Maul/Shadow Strike or w/e it's called for pubs shouldn't be used at all if you're playing Serenity.

 

Good to know, thanks! Any other abilities that are basically useless?

[LadyDarkkitten]

 

 

 

Sounds awfully terrain-dependent. What about open arenas?

 

.

 

Theres always a way to break los in every map and use terrain to your advantage. Even voidstar which is the most open IMO. Good use of phase walk requires planning ahead but is extremely profitable if done right as you can vanish to break combat then heal to full.

[Savej]

Interesting. Would you say PvP is effectively closed to new players for the present time?

 

Not closed but you've got a lot of work to do and grief to endure. I wouldn't start fresh in this game myself and wouldn't invite friends unless I was planning on holding their hand for a few dozen hours.

[Teriaon]

that is pretty bleek, I think there is room for new people to learn, I did as an example, just dont be afraid to ask people you see do well, maybe not in the warzone itself but make a note of their name and ask them afterwards, and sure some might be non helpful but I have always found people willing to answer questions when I asked. What I would suggest is starting a character in low or mid level pvp to get the gennerel ropes of it before doing max level

[Lhancelot]

Good to know, thanks! Any other abilities that are basically useless?

 

Shock is expensive on force, with dot spec I don't really see much use for it, unless you had to hit someone running away with it. There are other things you can use that cost less force though.

 

That being said my sin is only 30 now, so not sure if shock improves or has buffs later on etc. I haven't really read through the tree much past where I am playing.

 

I just know shock costs 40 power, so 40 out of 100 total I have is a big drain.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Lhancelot

[blodvite]

Shock has indeed no place in your general rotation when playing Hatred. Only exceptions to its use is perhaps if you need a finisher on an kiting enemy, but even so Phantom Stride and Force Speed should really disallow most oppertunites for the enemy to kite you if used properly and such other finishers exist. Maul has no spot in Hatred either, with no particular exception. Both of these abilities are quite resource draining in Hatred..

[Lhancelot]

Shock has indeed no place in your general rotation when playing Hatred. Only exceptions to its use is perhaps if you need a finisher on an kiting enemy, but even so Phantom Stride and Force Speed should really disallow most oppertunites for the enemy to kite you if used properly and such other finishers exist. Maul has no spot in Hatred either, with no particular exception. Both of these abilities are quite resource draining in Hatred..

 

thanks for the confirmation I suspected that. I even took shock off my bar even at 30 I found it was not needed. Maul too.

[Savej]

that is pretty bleek, I think there is room for new people to learn, I did as an example, just dont be afraid to ask people you see do well, maybe not in the warzone itself but make a note of their name and ask them afterwards, and sure some might be non helpful but I have always found people willing to answer questions when I asked. What I would suggest is starting a character in low or mid level pvp to get the gennerel ropes of it before doing max level

 

Mid level queue pops are getting rare on several servers, not sure about lowbies. But even those are full of premades and people that have played this game a lot (possibly that is why qs are slowing down in those brackets). Most new players that I've talked to or heard from do not seem to be having a good time at all. And the new wz is far from nice to them... But of course I'm not saying it's impossible to get into pvp now - it's far from rocket science - but I think it will take work and research for someone that isn't a masochist to have fun with it (without a lot of help), in any bracket.

Edited April 30, 2016 by Savej