The game has been dumbed down TOO far - The thoughts of a returning founder..

[Renata_Roselli]

How do you even wipe on False Emperor?

[Roalmo]

The OP seems to be confused.

 

1. He dislikes the companion setup now, seemingly saying it makes the game too easy for HIM. Just turn the comps skills off and have he/she/it follow you around like a pet. So simply a learn to play issue for OP. (If his problem is that the solo part of the game is too easy for other players... then we have a problem with OP, not the other way around)

 

2. Then OP goes off on the other people not "learning their role" and making the game more challenging for the OP.

So which is it: is the game dumbed down for him and he wants to make it harder for everyone else, so it will be easy for him or does he simply demand that all the other players, play the way he wants them to?

 

Only solution, is play the game and if you like it, fine hang around. If you don't, then try to find what you like to play.

 

Just thoughts of a returning founder here.....

[Thoronmir]

Just thoughts of a returning founder here.....

Hehe. Well, as a founder who returned long ago, and someone who saw A New Hope in the theaters when it first released ...

 

Yeah, I see your point. It doesn't really make my argument any stronger, does it. Who knew anonymous internet résumés were so useless?

[Holocron]

For SOME this is absolutely true but ask yourself this...why would a company (and not just EA/BW but many of the other MMO houses) "dumb down" their games if it caused people to leave.

 

Answer: It does not. Yes, some will leave, those for whom the "challenge" isn't enough for them but the fact that the trend toward easier has caught on and propagated shows that this model sells and that is what it's all about. No dev house, especially at the level of EA/BW is going to waste resources on crafting a game that doesn't sell and retain.

 

Yes, when a company is purely targeting the super casual player that has no qualms about quiting, trying other games, or using f2p services. Those companies feel that is the larger demographic, but the reality is those players are generally less profitable (& loyal), which is why they continually struggle to woo them back as the game goes on long decline from initial launch. This has been repeated time and again with mmo's. Corporate suits don't have a great track record for making good decisions when it comes to maintaining, or increasing the healthiness of a game. If anything we have to sit back from time to time and wonder how some games are staying afloat despite the bumbling idiots in charge.

 

Look at EVE, super complex, and has had a stable group of players since launch. I'd rather have 500K subs that will stay 15 years, then 1 million subs that would be gone in 4.

Cause over the course of those 15 years, I, as a company will have a lot more opportunity to come up with new ways to get more profits from my player base, rather than all my efforts being used in struggling to retain customers.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Holocron

[Max_Killjoy]

Yes, when a company is purely targeting the super casual player that has no qualms about quiting, trying other games, or using f2p services. Those companies feel that is the larger demographic, but the reality is those players are generally less profitable (& loyal), which why they continually struggle to woo them back as the game goes on long decline from initial launch. This has been repeated time and again with mmo's. Corporate suits don't have a great track record for making good decisions when it comes to maintaining, or increasing the healthiness of a game. If anything we have to sit back from time to time and wonder how some games are staying afloat despite the bumbling idiots in charge.

 

Look at EVE, super complex, and has had a stable group of player since launch. I'd rather have 500K subs that will stay 15 years, then 1 million subs that would be gone in 4.

Cause over the course of those 15 years, I, as a company will have a lot more opportunity to come up with new ways to get more profits from my player base, rather than struggle to retain customers.

 

Sadly, the average executive or board member would rather have the 1 million on this quarter's reports, and can't get their head around the idea of 5 years from now, let alone 15.

[Firolas]

Yeah totally agree with you OP.

 

Your not the first to complain about the easier than easy mode the game has become.

It's also been said many times over that no one wants leveling to be hard but it shouldn't be a faceroll that it is in it's current state. Lego Star Wars on the PS3 has harder content.

 

Fan boys will tell you if you don't like it then leave. And less population in a mmorpg seems like a good idea to them (madness I know).

You're not allowed to be a paying costumer and be in anyway critical of the product you are paying for it seems too.

[DieAlteHexe]

Yes, when a company is purely targeting the super casual player that has no qualms about quiting, trying other games, or using f2p services. Those companies feel that is the larger demographic, but the reality is those players are generally less profitable (& loyal), which is why they continually struggle to woo them back as the game goes on long decline from initial launch. This has been repeated time and again with mmo's. Corporate suits don't have a great track record for making good decisions when it comes to maintaining, or increasing the healthiness of a game. If anything we have to sit back from time to time and wonder how some games are staying afloat despite the bumbling idiots in charge.

 

Look at EVE, super complex, and has had a stable group of players since launch. I'd rather have 500K subs that will stay 15 years, then 1 million subs that would be gone in 4.

Cause over the course of those 15 years, I, as a company will have a lot more opportunity to come up with new ways to get more profits from my player base, rather than all my efforts being used in struggling to retain customers.

 

I think you're a bit off on the fickleness of the casual player. In fact, in my experience, it's the hardcore that are wandering off at a far, far higher rate than the casual as they have inhaled all the content and are, understandably, bored. The casual can take way longer to work through that same content.

 

So, sorry, I disagree with your premise and asset that mine is more likely correct. No company is intentionally going to make changes that offput the majority of their user base (well, no sane company).

[Holocron]

Sadly, the average executive or board member would rather have the 1 million on this quarter's reports, and can't get their head around the idea of 5 years from now, let alone 15.

 

I work for a really large company, and I completely agree. When a company is publicly traded they become very very short sighted, and almost simplemindedly focus on quarter to quarter profits for the shareholders above all else! The long term health of a product, or company quickly becomes nothing more than a foot note to these companies. In a way, it's like they went from being a visionary company blazing their own path, to living paycheck to paycheck. And what is sad is that they truly fail to realize that the visionary trailblazers are always the ones to succeed, as the customers would come to them.

[Slowpokeking]

Yes, when a company is purely targeting the super casual player that has no qualms about quiting, trying other games, or using f2p services. Those companies feel that is the larger demographic, but the reality is those players are generally less profitable (& loyal), which is why they continually struggle to woo them back as the game goes on long decline from initial launch. This has been repeated time and again with mmo's. Corporate suits don't have a great track record for making good decisions when it comes to maintaining, or increasing the healthiness of a game. If anything we have to sit back from time to time and wonder how some games are staying afloat despite the bumbling idiots in charge.

 

Look at EVE, super complex, and has had a stable group of players since launch. I'd rather have 500K subs that will stay 15 years, then 1 million subs that would be gone in 4.

Cause over the course of those 15 years, I, as a company will have a lot more opportunity to come up with new ways to get more profits from my player base, rather than all my efforts being used in struggling to retain customers.

 

More like 50-100k subs that will stay for a few years then die.

[xordevoreaux]

I think you're a bit off on the fickleness of the casual player. In fact, in my experience, it's the hardcore that are wandering off at a far, far higher rate than the casual as they have inhaled all the content and are, understandably, bored. The casual can take way longer to work through that same content.

 

So, sorry, I disagree with your premise and asset that mine is more likely correct. No company is intentionally going to make changes that offput the majority of their user base (well, no sane company).

 

I completely agree. The casual's aren't storming away acting like hurt little milquetoasts because something in PVP or end game or what have you is not exactly 100% to the nth degree the way they believe it should be within the scope of their narrow focus. Fickleness is the domain of the hard-core types that exist only for one function in a game rather than taking the game as a whole as a complete form of entertainment. I don't see grandiose and melodramatic "I'm quitting" threads from the casuals. They're busy playing the game.

[Holocron]

I think you're a bit off on the fickleness of the casual player. In fact, in my experience, it's the hardcore that are wandering off at a far, far higher rate than the casual as they have inhaled all the content and are, understandably, bored. The casual can take way longer to work through that same content.

 

So, sorry, I disagree with your premise and asset that mine is more likely correct. No company is intentionally going to make changes that offput the majority of their user base (well, no sane company).

 

To me there are more than two types of mmo players. Hardcore and casual are really the two ends of the extreme, but not the majority of valuable players. A good company would pander to all three demographics, but if forced to, then should mainly target the middle layer of players. Those players have characteristics of both hardcore and casual, but generally tend to play more, and are more loyal (they are the bread and butter that keep the lights on). However, over the last few years in the mmo world, we have seen a down shift in the corporate mentality, where they are mistakenly targeting the bottom end of the extreme thinking that is the new normal for the bulk of players, and from my observation of every mmo launch to date, that is simply not the case.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I feel the lack of challenge has truly driven away a lot of people. People like easy sure, and claim to want it, but the reality is the lack of challenge has the opposite effect on customer retention. People subconsciously don't really feel their actions mean anything when things are too easy , so it is not a mechanic that is very rewarding for playing the game.

 

Not to mention the whole line "well BW is known for story" is just ridiculous. I mean yeah they are, but story rich does not equate to super easy hate to tell you. And anyone whole thinks that of BW, obviously hasnt played those other games. I mean look at Bioshock.

[DieAlteHexe]

To me there are more than two types of mmo players. Hardcore and casual are really the two ends of the extreme, but not the majority of valuable players. A good company would pander to all three demographics, but if forced to, then should mainly target the middle layer of players. Those players have characteristics of both hardcore and casual, but generally tend to play more, and are more loyal (they are the bread and butter that keep the lights on). However, over the last few years in the mmo world, we have seen a down shift in the corporate mentality, where they are mistakenly targeting the bottom end of the extreme thinking that is the new normal for the bulk of players, and from my observation of every mmo launch to date, that is simply not the case.

 

And from mine, the casuals have become the bread and butter of MMOs. Look at the changes in just about all of the MMOs from UO outward through EQ etc. These changes were made to be inclusive of more playstyles than the Raid or Die mentality that was prevalent at the dawn of MMOs. The casuals are the ones who hold subs for a long, long time (as I explained previously). Companies woke up to this awhile back and since then all have been striving to find the right balance. It's a tricky thing but when push comes to shove, the casuals are the ones who bring in more income and that is the bottom line.

[Vhaegrant]

KotFE was obviously a soft reboot of SWTOR.

Allowing new players to jump into the content on a fresh 60 level character meant the opening content was little more than a tutorial. I have noticed the more recent chapters have started to introduce some combat that affects a characters health bar. Fingers crossed the Eternal Championship will be worthy-ish.

 

Have to query the OPs time frame though, been away for 18 months and had no trouble levelling with original companions for about 5 years... game has only just passed its 4th anniversary.

 

Aside from that minor nit pick SWTOR was never that challenging for solo gameplay from launch. Over level the content take a healer and you could achieve pretty much everything as you can now. If anything, pre-4.0 if you'd gathered up the full presence buff and unlocked all companions they were God like for a new character. And having a heal companion was always an easier ride, not saying it was wrong or showed poor skill after all some of the disciplines really needed to go with a healer.

 

And that plays into one of the biggest boons of the new companion system. I get to choose the companion I want to play with not the one that Bioware tells me I have to use if I want a Healer or Tank.

 

As for the difficulty of group content I wouldn't comment. Some of the pugs I ran with pre-4.0 were clueless, some were good, some caused more problems because they were over-geared and used to running with fully geared up guildies (they tended to be the worst runs). Most of the time though I gave up on the personal dramas and gear grind treadmills that end game raiding entailed. And have been having far more fun since I took that decision.

[Slowpokeking]

And from mine, the casuals have become the bread and butter of MMOs. Look at the changes in just about all of the MMOs from UO outward through EQ etc. These changes were made to be inclusive of more playstyles than the Raid or Die mentality that was prevalent at the dawn of MMOs. The casuals are the ones who hold subs for a long, long time (as I explained previously). Companies woke up to this awhile back and since then all have been striving to find the right balance. It's a tricky thing but when push comes to shove, the casuals are the ones who bring in more income and that is the bottom line.

 

Also,modern players don't really want tight group content.

[DieAlteHexe]

Also,modern players don't really want tight group content.

 

Well, some still do but they seem to be in the definite minority (and reaaaalllllly grouchy about it).

[ZETA_SCORPII]

I have played this game since launch day on and off and have recently resubbed as I wanted to see the new KoTFE content. I figured it would be as close as I was ever going to get to KOTOR 3 and have been back 3 weeks after roughly 18 months away.

 

I realize that there have been a lot of quality of life changes such as being able to hand in missions without having to go to a terminal, multi role companions etc. However having given it some thought the game only appears to be the one I loved and knew on the surface. Sure multi role companions are all fine and dandy. But now I keep thinking to myself that they are all just walking, talking clones of each other. They spit out the same phrases pretty much when healing ("You'll be alright !!!" shouts Kira/Doc/Scourge in a desperate voice when I have the teeniest flesh wound).

 

Thinking back however I managed perfectly fine for nigh on 5 yrs with the companions I was supplied with for each class. Has there been some mass wave of players all dying every 15 seconds that prompted the developers to say `Gosh we must make all the companions multi role before the player base utterly deserts the game`? I truly don`t understand the need to do this. The only answer I have is that they are pandering to the lowest common denominator which is a trend I deplore in gaming.

 

I feel that the *cough* `Tactical` *cough* Flashpoints are a horrendous mistake. Once upon a time these were level gated and gradually introduced different boss patterns, fight mechanics and required better and better teamwork between the trinity (Tank,DPS, Healer). Once you started to hit mid 30's you had been given plenty of practice in your given class and could carry on learning about it as you got to even tougher content and they were good training grounds for what is required in Operations.

 

Now though sub 65 you can pretty much spank and tank from start to finish and if you are required to think its content is `Where is the nearest Kolto Station?` Press button... insta group heal, repeat to fade. Now you too can `rolfstomp` every Flashpoint all the way up to level 65 regardless of class, gear, specs or indeed much thought. Presenting the worst idea in an MMO ever Level 65 Bolster ! The great leveller.. hooray??

 

Now that's all fine and dandy, now everyone regardless of skill can all kill the nasty 'ol monsters together. Yay for not being killjoys and making you well, you know practice or anything. Then we hit Level 65... wups no more Kolto stations, suddenly you have to actually (shh) know how to play your class.

 

Joins first HM 65 False Emperor. Commando is listed as `healer`. Not one heal, nada, zip, not even sure they healed themselves. We get to miniboss... not even a bandaid. Everyone shockingly dies. Healer ragequits for being told to heal, tank follows, then the DPS leaving me all alone. Whee !

 

Chalks it up to the gods of PUGs....

 

Joins second HM FP. I say to the `Tank` after you Mr Tank. He quits. Then the DPS quits. We relist for replacements. Ok another `Tank` and a DPS. I CC the big droid so we can leave him until last. Three Guesses who the Tank goes for..

 

I say four times `please don't wake up anything that is CCd, look I will even put a huge great flame marker on anything I am going to put out of the fight temporarily` Thankfully the Tank listens on the fifth time. SO the DPS runs near it and spams loads of AOE attacks. Whee !

 

Last, but by no means least we get to a mini boss. Pop Quiz for you. When the healer says `don't stand in the red circles or the indicators when hes charging up a blast attack` do they A. Listen B. Hear `blah, blah, wibbet, squeeble,`?

 

Tactical Flashpoints.. training a whole generation of clueless characters. Go Progress !

 

Learn how to join a guild and make friends. Do HM / NiM Ops. Problem solved.

[Slowpokeking]

Learn how to join a guild and make friends. Do HM / NiM Ops. Problem solved.

 

Why should people be forced to join hardcore ops guild and set schedule for ops? Why can't people try these content whenever they want? Heavy guild raid might work out a decade ago, but not anymore now. People are getting tired of such game style. Which is why MOB is beating MMO, which is why even at 2.0 and 3.0, only less than 10% were doing the top ops.

[VegasTheLost]

Why should people be forced to join hardcore ops guild and set schedule for ops? Why can't people try these content whenever they want? Heavy guild raid might work out a decade ago, but not anymore now. People are getting tired of such game style. Which is why MOB is beating MMO, which is why even at 2.0 and 3.0, only less than 10% were doing the top ops.

 

You never stop hijacking, do you?

[jimmorrisson]

This game is where it should have been upon launch.

 

Character Names 4.3

Designer Tabs

PVP 3.1

Comps 4.1

Quicktravel coold down reduction.

Mount Access at Level 1.

 

 

Storymode Operations however needs to be dumbed down some more. Especially the following:

 

Ravagers: Masterblaster

Temple of Sacrifice: Sword Squadron and Underlurker

Explosive Conflict: Tanks

[Tsetso]

Storymode Operations however needs to be dumbed down some more. Especially the following:

 

Ravagers: Masterblaster

Temple of Sacrifice: Sword Squadron and Underlurker

Explosive Conflict: Tanks

 

Yes and they need to allow companions in ops and implement afk mode so you just need to loot bosses

/sarcasm

[Andryah]

Yes and they need to allow companions in ops and implement afk mode so you just need to loot bosses

/sarcasm

 

LOL.. didn't you know... Bosses should loot themselves and mail the loot to the player.

[Andryah]

Well, some still do but they seem to be in the definite minority (and reaaaalllllly grouchy about it).

 

Yep.

[jimmorrisson]

By the responses I see not many have used groupfinder or read chat for when Explosive Conflict, Ravagers, and Temple Of Sacrifice are Story Mode Operation of the day.

[Slowpokeking]

By the responses I see not many have used groupfinder or read chat for when Explosive Conflict, Ravagers, and Temple Of Sacrifice are Story Mode Operation of the day.

 

Some groups even ask for achievement of M&B SM!

 

Just finished M&B last week, I swear I'm not gonna do it with pug gf again.