Much Improved

[PulseRazor]

After absorbing everything you have all said, having some 1 on 1 tutorial sessions with experienced pilots, many team flights and almost 40 recorded games this weekend I have seen noticeable improvement in my performance.

 

Every stat I compared from this weekend to my total flights has increased by a noticeable amount, I have gotten a few achievements and even saw my name at the top of the scoreboard a couple times in both kills and assists.

 

 

I still dont know what I am supposed to be doing in team deathmatches when it is just seems like gunship camping, I dont fare well in 1v1's in open areas against a lot of pilots, and I cant fly anything except my scout (due to upgrades, maybe).

 

 

All in all its been a good weekend, I dont know if I will ever be as good as any of you, or if anyone will ever worry about it when they see me coming, but at least I dont feel like I am the sole reason my team loses. I dont feel as embarrassed... often humbled, but sometimes I actually get to feel pretty confident.

 

Thanks for all the help.

[Greezt]

It was a good weekend for me too. I got farmed by Drakkolich and friends a bunch of matches on JC, but it was fun and I learned a lot.

 

Good to see you're not giving up.

[davidrodriguezjr]

I have been lurking around your post (since I couldn't really add to the post) when you started in GSF. I am glad you stuck with it. The thing is you can only get better from here on out. Some of us will never be ACE Pilots who can carry a team whenever we are in a match but for me, that does not stop the enjoyment of the best PvP in SWTOR. Edited April 11, 2016 by davidrodriguezjr

[Danalon]

I still dont know what I am supposed to be doing in team deathmatches when it is just seems like gunship camping, I dont fare well in 1v1's in open areas against a lot of pilots, and I cant fly anything except my scout (due to upgrades, maybe).

 

If you want to stay on your scout in a gunship-heavy game, it's a lot about cooldown timing and knowing where DO spawns. You'll need to do surprise attacks on them which requires them to be "distracted" somehow. The worse your team, the harder to surprise enemy gunships.

I usually fly T2 scout and surprise attacks work well until they realize how dangerous a scout can be and start to focus me on sight. Even with passive evasion, getting focused by 3+ gunships usually results in an early death for me. If it gets too hard to play scout for me, I switch to my T1 gunship because I feel I'm doing better against other gunships when I can rail them. However, T1 gunships need some upgrades to be fully effective against other gunships, mainly because of how important accuracy tracking and evasion are in gunship fights.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Danalon

[Maulkat]

After having been both with and against you the past few days, I can say, you have improved. Everybody has bad matches and good ones. I hope after flying with us this weekend, getting into voice and listening, that has helped you as well.

Keep with this. Things really do get better.

[DavidAtkinson]

I am glad to hear that you are improving. Just keep flying and you will see that you will become good. You have the correct mindset.

 

yes, it can be frustrating to get crushed by premades and not being able to do anything. You just have to move on and keep flying. It will pay off in the long run and you will see how enjoyable it is when you are totally in control of what you are doing. and you are confident in your ability as a pilot. It makes a lot of difference.

[MaximilianPower]

Spectacular. Sincerely, I am thrilled to read this. Your experience is exactly what we need to see more of around here.

 

I think you have done literally everything a new pilot could possibly do in order to improve: actively seeking advice, posting questions, grouping, getting tips from some of the community's best. At this point you could probably write your own guide for new players. I know you had a lot of rough moments early on. And of course there will be more of those, though hopefully fewer and farther between. But just the fact that you're still out there, and seeing measurable improvement...it is heartening to me.

 

@anyone else new to GSF and struggling mightily: follow this dude's example. You, too, can scale that mountain.

[FlavivsAetivs]

After absorbing everything you have all said, having some 1 on 1 tutorial sessions with experienced pilots, many team flights and almost 40 recorded games this weekend I have seen noticeable improvement in my performance.

 

Every stat I compared from this weekend to my total flights has increased by a noticeable amount, I have gotten a few achievements and even saw my name at the top of the scoreboard a couple times in both kills and assists.

 

 

I still dont know what I am supposed to be doing in team deathmatches when it is just seems like gunship camping, I dont fare well in 1v1's in open areas against a lot of pilots, and I cant fly anything except my scout (due to upgrades, maybe).

 

 

All in all its been a good weekend, I dont know if I will ever be as good as any of you, or if anyone will ever worry about it when they see me coming, but at least I dont feel like I am the sole reason my team loses. I dont feel as embarrassed... often humbled, but sometimes I actually get to feel pretty confident.

 

Thanks for all the help.

 

I'm glad to hear this! I hope you keep flying on JC and I'm sorry if you felt like I was hunting you. I actually wasn't. I hope to see you in some matches.

 

~ Eudoxia

[PulseRazor]

Spectacular. Sincerely, I am thrilled to read this. Your experience is exactly what we need to see more of around here.

 

I think you have done literally everything a new pilot could possibly do in order to improve: actively seeking advice, posting questions, grouping, getting tips from some of the community's best. At this point you could probably write your own guide for new players. I know you had a lot of rough moments early on. And of course there will be more of those, though hopefully fewer and farther between. But just the fact that you're still out there, and seeing measurable improvement...it is heartening to me.

 

@anyone else new to GSF and struggling mightily: follow this dude's example. You, too, can scale that mountain.

 

 

I still have rough moments though. Last night I was in the most infuriating game I have played yet, the entire 10 minute match I was breaking target locks, it didnt matter where I went there were people chasing after me. I managed only 2 deaths in the match, one was a suicide, but I was honestly angry at not being able to shake these people. I tried to drag them to where my teammates were, but nothing worked. The only thing that saved me were my upgrades and cooldown reduction on power dive and targetting telemetry missile lock break. It was not a fun match, but one that I seem to get in often as long as I am not considered a threat, and people look to me for easy kills.

[Lendul]

I still have rough moments though. Last night I was in the most infuriating game I have played yet, the entire 10 minute match I was breaking target locks, it didnt matter where I went there were people chasing after me. I managed only 2 deaths in the match, one was a suicide, but I was honestly angry at not being able to shake these people. I tried to drag them to where my teammates were, but nothing worked. The only thing that saved me were my upgrades and cooldown reduction on power dive and targetting telemetry missile lock break. It was not a fun match, but one that I seem to get in often as long as I am not considered a threat, and people look to me for easy kills.

Just so you know this also the price of success. Once people view you as a good player you will get focused.

[PulseRazor]

This gunship spam is really lame, every deathmatch is easily 75% gunships on both sides, I dont want to play a gunship like everyone else but if I dont then I am just food for gunships, they have every angle covered by their sheer numbers. Naturally I am the main target because I am the only one that is moving, everyone else is strafe camping behind a rock. Its not hard to see why one wants to play GSF. Edited April 13, 2016 by PulseRazor

[caederon]

I dont want to play a gunship like everyone else but if I dont then I am just food for gunships

Group with some good scout pilots. There are a number of them flying on JC these days. A bunch of good scouts can wreak havoc on a gunship line. Identify who the lesser gs pilots are. Go for them first. If they are running bombers along with the gs, your side needs one or two T1 gs to ion the bomber stuff (which will also weaken the gs with ion splash). You can use cover to approach the gunships from angles that make it tough on them to deal with you before you're in their face unloading a fusillade of rockets and burst lasers. A swarm of evasion scouts is a nightmare for gunships. Your team just has to deal with any T2 bomber railgun drones so the scouts can do their thing.

 

- Despon

[SeCKSEgai]

I still have rough moments though. Last night I was in the most infuriating game I have played yet, the entire 10 minute match I was breaking target locks, it didnt matter where I went there were people chasing after me. I managed only 2 deaths in the match, one was a suicide, but I was honestly angry at not being able to shake these people. I tried to drag them to where my teammates were, but nothing worked. The only thing that saved me were my upgrades and cooldown reduction on power dive and targetting telemetry missile lock break. It was not a fun match, but one that I seem to get in often as long as I am not considered a threat, and people look to me for easy kills.

 

While it may have felt irritating at the time, if you were able to powerdie and df that well for only 2 deaths you're already made a drastic improvement given your short amount of time playing being under that much pressure.

 

You also have to take into consideration the level of your competition. I've had entire teams chase after me, where you watch the sea of red move on the minimap. Against less experienced pilots, you can jump right in and just fly around without too much worry and just reacting on instinct as needed. However, if you have multiple veteran pilots chase, don't expect to break away unless you're running a config specifically built for hit and run, like having booster recharge, although powerdie alone is extremely effective at evading. Keep in mind energy is limited and their are weapons like ion cannons and interdiction to further reduce your maneuverability and energy regen.

 

Targeting telem doesn't get a missile break, but I'll assume you meant a maxed distortion field.

 

But goin back to having issues shaking them. Earlier I had a match that my side won 40-36. I was 18/12/4. Despite scoring almost half the team's kills, I spent a lot of time evading and being chased around. The reason I emphasize this is because despite trying to get nearby allies to assist me, most of the time they didn't. While I'm generally happy to turn and face a threat head on, it's not such a good idea when you've been debuffed heavily, like an ion shot. Essentially, I had to fly like I was on my own all the while hoping teammates would take notice and get a few kills in on the people so intent on making me go boom.

 

There are typically two ways to garner a lot of "attention" - irritate people or rack up kills. As someone who's done a bit of both, it's very common for multiple ships to engage me at any given time. Once people perceive you as a priority threat, you have to learn to become a much harder target. Also, team strength plays a huge role. When a team has one main threat, that threat is extremely likely to end up a target of focus.

 

However, when you're with some strong teammates, the enemy team can't afford to focus just one person taking a notable amount of pressure off. Hard to focus that one pilot when another two are setup to kill you in the process.

 

As you continue to improve, your threat level will rise. The bigger the threat, the more likely a pilot is going to get special attention, so get used to being up against the odds.

[WiseStranger]

This gunship spam is really lame, every deathmatch is easily 75% gunships on both sides, I dont want to play a gunship like everyone else but if I dont then I am just food for gunships, they have every angle covered by their sheer numbers. Naturally I am the main target because I am the only one that is moving, everyone else is strafe camping behind a rock. Its not hard to see why one wants to play GSF.

 

Approach a gunship wall from a side that forces them to either face you or face the gunships on your team.

If they face you - gunships on your team can move in and weed them out.

If they face gunships on your team - you can make a run on the gunship wall.

Make sure to pick a gunship on the back lines since it will force the front line to turn or at the very least you will have less gunships railing at you from the start.

Sometimes you don't even have to make a run, just hide behind a rock within a striking distance and some gunships will just sit there and look at you while your team grinds them to fine particles.

[MaximilianPower]

This gunship spam is really lame, every deathmatch is easily 75% gunships on both sides, I dont want to play a gunship like everyone else but if I dont then I am just food for gunships, they have every angle covered by their sheer numbers. Naturally I am the main target because I am the only one that is moving, everyone else is strafe camping behind a rock. Its not hard to see why one wants to play GSF.

 

As you are aware, I was in at least one of these games. That one Mesas TDM stands out in my mind: at one point, the opposition was fielding 7 gunships. We still won but it was pretty close (50-46 iirc).

 

After that match I tried to give you some thoughts on what a scout can do in a match like that, as did Roland. Will try to summarize here because /gsf isn't the optimal avenue to share advice.

 

It's certainly a tough situation for a scout pilot. Mesas TDM map is tricky; terrain and LOS are particularly critical there. You kind of have to learn the map like the back of your hand, which only comes with experience. I suggested that you spend your time in any blowout wins simply navigating around, familiarizing yourself with the various doors & pillars, and also the locations of DO spawns.

 

Another thing I suggested is to try to hassle any gunships that are somehow isolated, on the edges or out of the range of his teammates. Easier said than done, no doubt. I believe you said you've tried this tactic but found yourself up against walls or the edges of the map. That will happen when the opposition is well positioned. But if you know the map well, you can also use vertical approaches. Meaning, for example, head way down in the middle of the map, use those pillars as cover, and then come up and blast your target in the face.

 

Again, easier said than done, but something to try.

Group with some good scout pilots. There are a number of them flying on JC these days. A bunch of good scouts can wreak havoc on a gunship line. Identify who the lesser gs pilots are. Go for them first. If they are running bombers along with the gs, your side needs one or two T1 gs to ion the bomber stuff (which will also weaken the gs with ion splash). You can use cover to approach the gunships from angles that make it tough on them to deal with you before you're in their face unloading a fusillade of rockets and burst lasers. A swarm of evasion scouts is a nightmare for gunships. Your team just has to deal with any T2 bomber railgun drones so the scouts can do their thing.

 

- Despon

 

I think OP moved all his GSF toons to Harb. But of course your points stand, the above advice works anywhere. One key takeaway here: being the sole scout pilot is really hard, but team up with a couple more and you've got options. Nothing scares gunships like multiple evasion scouts. Even if you don't actually kill them, deroosting them can help your team immeasurably. A GS on the run is unlikely to kill anything. Similarly, if you see the red glowies, make it your mission to grab them ASAP. Here too, even if you don't land a kill, merely keeping a DO out of the hands of a competent enemy GS can save your team a few points.

[FlavivsAetivs]

terrain and LOS are particularly critical there. You kind of have to learn the map like the back of your hand

 

100% this. Clarion isn't exactly a top-of the line ship but once I was in a meta-match and being chased by like 4 scouts (or something) and managed to kill them all by weaving through the docked Hutt cartel frigates on the south side of the map. Lot of timing, LOS, power to shields, and all four of them self destructed by bumping into things.

 

It's weird stuff like that which makes matches fun too lol.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 13, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[PulseRazor]

100% this. Clarion isn't exactly a top-of the line ship but once I was in a meta-match and being chased by like 4 scouts (or something) and managed to kill them all by weaving through the docked Hutt cartel frigates on the south side of the map. Lot of timing, LOS, power to shields, and all four of them self destructed by bumping into things.

 

It's weird stuff like that which makes matches fun too lol.

 

~ Eudoxia

 

Yea, I can see where you would have fun playing as an experienced pilot, but for someone who is trying to learn the game, these "vets" and "pros" and "aces" make the entry to GSF impossible, and the antithesis of fun. It isnt fun spending most of the game in a respawn, sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard in every category, and being the reason your team loses.

 

I am beyond asking for help now, because when I do I have people wanting to run me through the basics all over again, no one has anything to tell me now that I havent heard a hundred times.

[MaximilianPower]

Yea, I can see where you would have fun playing as an experienced pilot, but for someone who is trying to learn the game, these "vets" and "pros" and "aces" make the entry to GSF impossible, and the antithesis of fun. It isnt fun spending most of the game in a respawn, sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard in every category, and being the reason your team loses.

 

I am beyond asking for help now, because when I do I have people wanting to run me through the basics all over again, no one has anything to tell me now that I havent heard a hundred times.

 

OK.

 

This, too, is something you've heard before but it bears repeating: you need experience. Experience with the maps/terrain, DO spawns, countering enemies, when to engage & when to break off...this is all stuff that takes time, and practice. I get the frustration, ALL of us have been there. You push through that stuff and things start to fall into place.

 

Next time I see you I'll make a point of going scout in a match like that, rather than the GS I'm usually in. Not my strong suit but maybe I can help alleviate the pressure on you, maybe we can tag-team some of those gunships.

[caederon]

sitting at the bottom of the scoreboard in every category, and being the reason your team loses.

The reason teams most often lose is that there are players on that team who have not learned the basics, who have not availed themselves of the many resources that exist to help them be competent. No one player can overcome a bunch of teammates that don't know what they're doing. A good four-man group will still lose if the rest of the team is not doing anything productive.

 

Do not be overly concerned with your position on the scoreboard. That will improve with time as you practice and sharpen your skills. You can contribute to winning teams through smart play without landing big scores. You know the basics and have the tools to help your team right now.

 

It would be great if there was a system in GSF to keep people of similar ability/experience levels playing against one another. The shallow player pool can't support that presently. Even with the conditions we have now, you can continue to improve and see the scoreboard results reflect that.

 

- Despon

[Maulkat]

Did we really do that to you? I recall giving ideas, suggestions and helpful advice. You asked us questions and I hope we answered them I thought. To be fair here, I'm not at the top of the board often in any match. I'm a support flyer and usually sit and guard a node or give ammo in a deathmatch. That position usually doesn't bring much score, but is integral to a team and winning.

As you know, the learning curve is steep and with this game mode having been out 2+ years, you can't expect to come in and be an "ace" out of the gate. It took me ages to get all the gsf achievements, but I got them. I didn't get my first 15 kills game until a YEAR after this came out. Your expectations of your personal performance are set way too high. Lower them slightly.

Also, you alone are never the cause of a loss. It is a team game and played with seven or eleven other people, plus the other team. You need to look at the scores of the entire team and you can see why a loss happened. Damage and kills aren't everything. On the other side, look at the scores of the opposing team and see why they won. Outside of domination, bomber spam, there's usually a reason.

I'm not going to tell you, you have to keep flying, but you are getting better. Even if your ship of choice is mastered or almost there, you are improving. Nor am I going to tell you to fly something else, though I think you should. Broaden your flying knowledge and fly a bomber or GS. Heck, even a tensor scout. If all you fly are scouts, then you're never going to know how to counter a GS.

My scouting ability is lacking and I have been working on that. My strongest ship is my GS, so I'm learning to fly a scout so I can know how to counter one when I am GS.

We've ALL been on the path you are and learned how to fly, stuck with it and became what we are today. You dominantly solo queue, however, you're in two great guilds for gsf. Ask for a group, fly as a team and learning becomes so much easier. It also takes a load off you and allows you to fly more freely as you have support with you.

[FlavivsAetivs]

xperience with the maps/terrain, DO spawns, countering enemies, when to engage & when to break off...this is all stuff that takes time, and practice. I get the frustration

 

I didn't memorize the DO spawns until literally like a month ago, at Beres' suggestion. Been playing for a year at this point.

 

Power Die will teach you to memorize maps quickly. Lol.

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited April 14, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs