Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[lightSaberAddiCt]

So speaking as a raider, do you have any proof that raiders would not agree with your idea in principle? Because how you phrased it makes it seems you have been slammed pretty hard for suggesti ng it. As a raider, I'd be fine with your suggestion (given I mostly do hm/nim content, it's not like I have problems with any other content in this game anyway for gear reasons) in principle.

 

My only concern would be that it would make even less people want to raid, which would cause me to be able to raid less. So the suggestion itself is fine, the unintended side effect of making raiding less desirable is a problem I think, though that could probably be worked around by tossing in quest line bread crumbs, shiny decorations, specual "armor look tokens" or some other things I haven't thought of yet.

 

The whole reason to do group OPs, or raids, historically, is to get the BiS gear. That is why people want to do it. It seems this is an issue with some "story" people, so they try their best to destroy anything related to OPs because either their personality, or lack of initiative prevents them from accomplishing a very easy goal.

 

If you removed the benefits of endgame gear, outside of OPs, you would in effect kill operations. And that is EXACTLY what they want.

[AllisonLightning]

The whole reason to do group OPs, or raids, historically, is to get the BiS gear. That is why people want to do it. It seems this is an issue with some "story" people, so they try their best to destroy anything related to OPs because either their personality, or lack of initiative prevents them from accomplishing a very easy goal.

 

If you removed the benefits of endgame gear, outside of OPs, you would in effect kill operations. And that is EXACTLY what they want.

 

Oh, we're doing a guild run tomorrow- highlight for me and I love running activities with my guild. Raids are a good group guild activity. Endgame gear is shiny special and I don't see any reason as someone who doesn't run them much, why you would want to ruin that excellent gear.

[Dewlmenow]

I'm still hoping a raider can explain to me why gear that would only be usable in the raid/operation is apparently so unacceptable. If they are run for the challenge then the gear still serves that puropse, and if the gear is meant to be used in other areas of the game then soloers should have access to comparable levels of power. Heck, didn't James Ohlen state that multiple heroes beating up on a single villain "isn't very heroic"?

 

 

'Why do you need raid-level gear if you don't raid?' (aka the cry of the whining raider) seems pretty self-explanatory if raiders want it to be usable in other settings- because it makes every aspect of the game easier.

 

It would seem that PVP gear already does this to an extent with expertise reducing the other stats on a piece of gear. Perhaps an 'operation value' that increased damage against mobs only within the op (while reducing mastery, power, etc.) would be a more acceptable compromise?

 

I wouldn't particularly care, but what would be the point? Raiding has gotten 1 set of operations in 3! years when they'll announce anything new at the cantina (and a one off boss that nobody cares about). Why lessen the rewards from a section of the game that has gotten a reprehensible lack of attention to it?

[CorellianWannabe]

The whole reason to do group OPs, or raids, historically, is to get the BiS gear. That is why people want to do it. It seems this is an issue with some "story" people, so they try their best to destroy anything related to OPs because either their personality, or lack of initiative prevents them from accomplishing a very easy goal.

 

If you removed the benefits of endgame gear, outside of OPs, you would in effect kill operations. And that is EXACTLY what they want.

 

So you need a shiny carrot to raid- that says a lot about how 'fun' raiding really is, doesn't it? As for 'BiS', the gear would still be the best- for raiding, which is all you need it for in the first place (although I don't see why if it's such a 'very easy goal').

 

They have been killed, or haven't you been paying attention? Apparently raiders don't pay the bills and aren't as important as they think they are.

Edited September 2, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[Tsetso]

The whole reason to do group OPs, or raids, historically, is to get the BiS gear. That is why people want to do it. It seems this is an issue with some "story" people, so they try their best to destroy anything related to OPs because either their personality, or lack of initiative prevents them from accomplishing a very easy goal.

 

If you removed the benefits of endgame gear, outside of OPs, you would in effect kill operations. And that is EXACTLY what they want.

 

Hell no. The whole reason there are gear tiers is to have meaningful raid progression. You're putting the cart before the horse.

[Docthebutcher]

Cause its the internet. People aren't happy unless they've got something to whine about.

 

 

Yep I whine and ***** a lot.

Same goes for vehicle owners they are never happy unless they can fined something to whine about their vehicle.

Always blaming the dealership it is their fault when it is always the owners fault of being a idiot for buying that vehicle to begin with,

 

Len

swtor has millions of players "James Olwin"

[Tsetso]

I'm still hoping a raider can explain to me why gear that would only be usable in the raid/operation is apparently so unacceptable. If they are run for the challenge then the gear still serves that puropse, and if the gear is meant to be used in other areas of the game then soloers should have access to comparable levels of power. Heck, didn't James Ohlen state that multiple heroes beating up on a single villain "isn't very heroic"?

 

 

'Why do you need raid-level gear if you don't raid?' (aka the cry of the whining raider) seems pretty self-explanatory if raiders want it to be usable in other settings- because it makes every aspect of the game easier.

 

It would seem that PVP gear already does this to an extent with expertise reducing the other stats on a piece of gear. Perhaps an 'operation value' that increased damage against mobs only within the op (while reducing mastery, power, etc.) would be a more acceptable compromise?

 

Actually thinking about that it certainly is possible doing that. They have instead used the expertise solution. Both are trying to solve the same problem - that raiders don't have unfair advantage in pvp while still having meaningful progression. Too bad they are unwilling to use the expertise stat to balance pvp separately from pve.

[gabigool]

So you need a shiny carrot to raid- that says a lot about how 'fun' raiding really is, doesn't it? As for 'BiS', the gear would still be the best- for raiding, which is all you need it for in the first place (although I don't see why if it's such a 'very easy goal').

 

They have been killed, or haven't you been paying attention? Apparently raiders don't pay the bills and aren't as important as they think they are.

 

I'm in two NM groups, one HM group, and sub for another. I've raided in this game a few nights a week since 2012. I've never once met someone who was doing higher difficulty content solely for the gear - that changed with HHM of course, but please do not imply - or believe people who imply - the endgame community has ever been in it for the gear.

 

The extent to which most serious endgame players care about gear is as a means to defeat more difficult content, or to facilitate "farm" content to provide more time for progression.

 

It's about killing the bosses. Period.

[Adaliaya]

I'm not mad, just sad. I loved this game for social content, and while the story is nice and all I don't feel like logging in anymore due lack of new content. Raging won't help anyone, and this is still a great MMO, and a lot players are happy with direction it has taken, and that's cool. That's just not me. SWTOR had a special place in my life, and now that its over is it a surprise there is certain emptiness remaining? Oh well, lack of new raids is the best thing that has happened to my grades at least.

[Jamtas]

People are maddest about communication in my opinion. They leave too much in the air for will they or won't they thoughts and theories to fester.

 

So here's the deal. SW the movie is a clsoed set and they can try and keep everything as secret as possible and do a generally good job. Why? They want everyone to be surprised and enjoy it spoiler free on release. And that is great. The issue here, is that movies don't get datamined while they are being made. This game doesn't have that luxury so it can't operate under those same thoughts. B/c of this, when things get leaked as they do and everyone kow, the big reveal they want to do now feels delayed and cheapened and loses it's affect. Liek the big announcement of KOTETs name being the only reveal about the next expansion. Had we all been surprised, it would have felt a little more satisfying. Unfortunately, this game doesn't have that reality or luxury. So now these announcements feel like too little.

 

Let me give my analogy I gave to a guildie earlier. Let's say I am making cookies for my kids. They come and ask me what I'm doing and I say "Hey guys, I'm making cookies for you. They'll be ready in 20 minutes, but then they have to cool off before we can eat them"

Kids reaction- "wow, thanks dad! that's great." then they go and kill time and get excited.

 

Now my take on BWs version of this. Kids come int he kitchen. What are you doing dad? "I can't tell you anything about it, but next week I'll tell you all about it. You'll like it"

"but dad, we can see you are baking something in the oven" (aka datamining)

"Well I cant confirm or talk about that. last time I told you what I was making and it came out late and not fully cooked you guys got mad. So I won't tell you what I'm making or when it will be ready, but I'll tell you all about it next week"

"Well if you aren't going to tell us we'll go to the pantry and get full on something else"

-a week passes-

"hey guys remember that stuff i was working on? it's ready now! Guess what it is "

"cookies dad we know. but since you wouldn't tell us we got full over at neighbors house. (going to play other games). she made really good cookies and gave us 2-3 kinds

"oh, well try this one. you'll like it. best cookies ever right"

"ok, they're fine. thanks. when is dinner gonna be ready?"

"dinner? stay tuned. Mom and I are gonna tell you all about it in a few hours"

"you have no clue what you guys are gonna make us to eat tonight do you?"

 

same item gets made, but with much differing response due to the communication/lack of and desire to try and hold out on any information. And it frustrates people to no end. People get frustrated, they vent and/or leave to go get their fll elsewhere. Then the build up for everything gets so overdone that anything short of the greatest content in an MMO ever is a let down.

 

I'll channel my inner Snave and say " Just f***ing tell us man!" (vape hit)

Edited September 2, 2016 by Jamtas

[Victor_Nite]

I'm perfectly happy with no new raids. It made me mad when I couldn't do certain story content solo or with a friend. I don't care about the rewards, just wanted to play through the story. I'm happy that some flashpoints have a solo mode now, but there's operation stuff I'd like to see without having to run it as an operation. I don't want to play with that many people. I haven't even bother with Oricron in a long time because it ended in an operation. Case in point. So I'd be perfectly fine with no new raids.

[Jamtas]

I'm perfectly happy with no new raids. It made me mad when I couldn't do certain story content solo or with a friend. I don't care about the rewards, just wanted to play through the story. I'm happy that some flashpoints have a solo mode now, but there's operation stuff I'd like to see without having to run it as an operation. I don't want to play with that many people. I haven't even bother with Oricron in a long time because it ended in an operation. Case in point. So I'd be perfectly fine with no new raids.

 

I think you mean to say you are happy with story not gated behind an operation. Being happy that an entire community is being ignored is another thing all together.

[Victor_Nite]

I think you mean to say you are happy with story not gated behind an operation. Being happy that an entire community is being ignored is another thing all together.

 

Yes. Apologies for the lack of clarification. Too many distractions in the room while typing

I don't like it when they lock story content to operations. If they added some that all could enjoy that would be awesome.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

So you need a shiny carrot to raid- that says a lot about how 'fun' raiding really is, doesn't it? As for 'BiS', the gear would still be the best- for raiding, which is all you need it for in the first place (although I don't see why if it's such a 'very easy goal').

 

They have been killed, or haven't you been paying attention? Apparently raiders don't pay the bills and aren't as important as they think they are.

 

neither are your precious "story" people, who only seem to want to pay a month to get an entire season. At least most raiders I know, maintain an active sub.

 

But regardless, you argument is moot. It will not change, no matter how much you want to argue semantics, or try and belittle other peoples arguments. As such I am pretty much done with responding to your posts, it seems more of a waste of time to me.

 

And as to your "shiney carrot" argument, it is not even close. 9/10 OPs i do, I lose the roll for the item piece. So there goes your weak argument about needing a carrot.

 

It is also a little ironic, considering that you try to belittle people saying they are playing for a shiney carrot, but arent you in the HK thread, arguing that the should give people a "shiney carrot" even though they didnt qualify for it? If it is so wrong to play for a carrot, why is it they need that HK?

Edited September 2, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I'm perfectly happy with no new raids. It made me mad when I couldn't do certain story content solo or with a friend. I don't care about the rewards, just wanted to play through the story. I'm happy that some flashpoints have a solo mode now, but there's operation stuff I'd like to see without having to run it as an operation. I don't want to play with that many people. I haven't even bother with Oricron in a long time because it ended in an operation. Case in point. So I'd be perfectly fine with no new raids.

 

Yeah so since you dont like it, screw all the people that do. That certainly is a nice personality trait. I am over story, done it over 30 times, but at least I dont try to say that since I dont like doing it, or that I choose not to do it, that everyone else should not be able to.

[UberSamoyed]

Based on what I just read, there will be no new Ops anytime soon. RIP.

 

I'll channel Robert Frost to express my feelings:

 

Nature’s first green is gold,

Her hardest hue to hold.

Her early leaf’s a flower;

But only so an hour.

Then leaf subsides to leaf.

So Eden sank to grief,

So dawn goes down to day.

Nothing gold can stay.

 

 

 

All I can say now is that the NY Cantina Event on 10/5 has now become a watershed event for many current raiders/raiding guilds/subs...if they last that long.

 

I guess our "*&!#*&% warrior" wiped. Probably should have rolled a Sorc...

Edited September 2, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[AlrikFassbauer]

I still have to find a PUG to get through Ravagers SM ( did it only once so far ), and never did the Yavin OP, either. I never thought that I'd get geared well enough for that, and that took ages, but now my main chars are ( I think ).

 

So, for me, there is more than enough challenge ahead. I didn't do the OP-Monoliths, either.

[UberSamoyed]

I didn't do the OP-Monoliths, either.

 

 

Consider yourself lucky.

Edited September 2, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[Victor_Nite]

Yeah so since you dont like it, screw all the people that do. That certainly is a nice personality trait. I am over story, done it over 30 times, but at least I dont try to say that since I dont like doing it, or that I choose not to do it, that everyone else should not be able to.

 

I think you took my opinion the wrong way. I apologize if it was found offensive. That wasn't my intention, but looking at it from another point of view, I can certainly see how you might have taken it so. I am a subscriber like many others, and it just bothers me when story content it locked to operations. It would be great if they did make some that could be solo'd for those like myself while still providing the part of it people like yourself enjoy.

[UberSamoyed]

It would be great if they did make some that could be solo'd for those like myself while still providing the part of it people like yourself enjoy.

 

They did that with the Shadow of Revan expansion...most likely conceding your point.

Edited September 2, 2016 by UberSamoyed

[CorellianWannabe]

neither are your precious "story" people, who only seem to want to pay a month to get an entire season. At least most raiders I know, maintain an active sub.

 

But regardless, you argument is moot. It will not change, no matter how much you want to argue semantics, or try and belittle other peoples arguments. As such I am pretty much done with responding to your posts, it seems more of a waste of time to me.

 

And as to your "shiney carrot" argument, it is not even close. 9/10 OPs i do, I lose the roll for the item piece. So there goes your weak argument about needing a carrot.

 

It is also a little ironic, considering that you try to belittle people saying they are playing for a shiney carrot, but arent you in the HK thread, arguing that the should give people a "shiney carrot" even though they didnt qualify for it? If it is so wrong to play for a carrot, why is it they need that HK?

 

In other words you can't refute the points so you simply declare you are done replying as if this is some drama class project.

 

Apparently some 'story people' decided that an hour of cutscenes and speed bump combat per month wasn't good value for money. Why are raiders still here with no new raids then in your opinion ? Masochism? Misplaced 'loyalty' to a corporation?

 

Didn't you say that raiders raid for the 'BiS' gear? Contradict yourself much?

 

They wouldn't be 'giving' people a shiny carrot, the people would pay for it, which is all the snowflakes had to do. There was no effort in obtaining Nico or 55 other than clicking 'subscribe' at the right time.

Edited September 2, 2016 by CorellianWannabe

[CorellianWannabe]

I'm in two NM groups, one HM group, and sub for another. I've raided in this game a few nights a week since 2012. I've never once met someone who was doing higher difficulty content solely for the gear - that changed with HHM of course, but please do not imply - or believe people who imply - the endgame community has ever been in it for the gear.

 

The extent to which most serious endgame players care about gear is as a means to defeat more difficult content, or to facilitate "farm" content to provide more time for progression.

 

It's about killing the bosses. Period.

 

So you would support gear usable only in raids, since it would still help killing those bosses more efficiently? Or at least gear with a stat weighted toward raids like expertise is for pvp?

 

Of course I'm also bothered by the idea that crafting hits a brick wall unless the crafter raids as well, but apparently some raiders can't handle the idea of crafted gear even coming close to their precious purples. "If raid-quality gear is available by other means why would people raid?" was a very telling argument I've heard before.

[gabigool]

So you would support gear usable only in raids, since it would still help killing those bosses more efficiently? Or at least gear with a stat weighted toward raids like expertise is for pvp?

 

Of course I'm also bothered by the idea that crafting hits a brick wall unless the crafter raids as well, but apparently some raiders can't handle the idea of crafted gear even coming close to their precious purples. "If raid-quality gear is available by other means why would people raid?" was a very telling argument I've heard before.

 

Honestly man the sole thing I care about is new raid content. Without it nothing else matters from my point of view.

 

That said, I think this studio (in practice) and the forum goers (theoretically) spend far too much time trying to reinvent the wheel.

 

Quality content - of all types - released at a reasonable cadence solves 99% of the problems.

[LyraineAlei]

So you would support gear usable only in raids, since it would still help killing those bosses more efficiently? Or at least gear with a stat weighted toward raids like expertise is for pvp?

 

Of course I'm also bothered by the idea that crafting hits a brick wall unless the crafter raids as well, but apparently some raiders can't handle the idea of crafted gear even coming close to their precious purples. "If raid-quality gear is available by other means why would people raid?" was a very telling argument I've heard before.

 

I remember some time back when weekly zones would award Planetary Comms, the Blue Comms, and one or two of the purple commendations. That was a way non-raiders could work their way into that high tier gear that looked cool, it took longer and the gear was not BiS. It would be nice if that balance would return because I don't remember if those old weekly zones even reward a single purple these days.

[Rolodome]

I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, who am I to tell people what they should and shouldn't get upset about? On the other hand, raiding is one of those things that is not rare. A number of high profile MMOs do it and with more of a consistent focus than SWTOR does. I get, however, that for some people, this game is it... they just aren't interested in playing a different one. That's something that would be foolish to diminish if one cares about the health of this game and for those for whom this game is it, I can see why the lack of new raids would bother them if raids are something they really enjoy.

 

In my case, the main reason I'm here at all is for the RPG, moral choices story experience. It's something that no other online game currently offers in the same capacity. So for someone like me, there really is no alternative, unless I want to go single-player (and most of those, I've played already, ten times over).

 

In the case of raiding, there are other options that aren't terrible, but they are also entirely other games and some people may not like those other games as a whole.