Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[psikofunkster]

Sounds like you're playing the wrong type of game in general. MMO with no end game, is not an MMO. People who have played SWTOR the MMO for 3-4 years dont want to see it become SWTOR the single player RPG.

 

More people joined? Caught the eye of new people? Their sub count drops and drops and drops. My guild of 200 people disbanded. All my friends from the Navy I got to play with me quit. All my friends I met in SWTOR over the last few years have quit. I literally dont know anyone IRL who plays SWTOR anymore, and I used to know hundreds.

 

Not only that, the few people that still remains don't know the operations, on my server the JC trying to complete ravagers or TFB STORY MODE is a real pain (event with the bolster and the 4.0 nerf), most people can't do it.

 

It's useless to log in on this game, endgame content is dead...sub ends next Saturday i'm sad because i wish i could still play but there's no point.

Edited September 1, 2016 by psikofunkster

[rklontz]

Wow nice necro...what really is it going to accomplish bring this thread back to view?

 

It's a better discussion than the HK thread and the insesent prattle about not being able to buy subscriber rewards

[LyraineAlei]

It's a better discussion than the HK thread and the insesent prattle about not being able to buy subscriber rewards

 

^

 

Anyway, I don't do raids and stuff (yet, I used to say the same thing about PvP but ... *point at all of her new rolled characters who have leveled mostly through PvP*), but I'd like to see more raids and group-based content released because while a small number (percent-wise, based on other games' metrics) of players might be doing those, it's something on the hamster wheel for others who might want to "someday" get around to doing those.

 

Look at the Macrobinocular/Seeker questlines, no one (or at least when I'm online it seems) is running those and they're the last H4s in the game, so players don't even ask in chat for groups anymore (again, same disclosure) for those missions, and the H4s are left to rot in disuse (*mutter mutter should have been changed to H2s and made repeatable like other H2s so people still run them mutter mutter*)

 

So if raids are being made, people will stop doing them because they've been done a million times by those players, and then newer players wouldn't bother looking into those because no one would be running through them anymore.

 

And raids should be made again to bring back some of those ol' number crunchers who make guides for the latest patches.

[Deewe]

**off topic**

Story is nice, but short and weak, events are crap, no group content, no repeatable content, nothing to do, grind and enjoy, bugs, lags etc. The game is not doing well, but we miss the old good times!

Agreed with the point that WoW has much more content in its last Xpack than years of patches and updates in SWTOR.

 

Now grind and repeatable content is very similar. You can run the heroics, FP as much as you want. That's repeatable content. And to be totally honest here, in WoW apart the starting quests all classes have the exact same content. Whereas in SWTOR you have 8 totally different class content.

/**off topic**

 

Back on the topic: The stats shows, MMO wide that around 5% of players do RAIDs.

As example I've been there since beta. Have been involved in the biggest guilds both imp and reb side and yet I did not runt through all OPs. Done a handful of them, not more.

 

Thing is with RAIDs, unless you are in a large and organised enough guild AND don't have unexpected RL events it's a pain to attend to and it involves much waiting. Also you need vent (or similar).

 

So it's understandable the producer's focus isn't on operations at all.

The ROI just isn't there and players would burn through it faster than a lightsaber through butter.

 

Now what would be a smart move is to recycle them with 4 players (+ eventually 4 companions) groups. That would be new group content for over 80% of the players.

[Tsetso]

**off topic**

 

Agreed with the point that WoW has much more content in its last Xpack than years of patches and updates in SWTOR.

 

Now grind and repeatable content is very similar. You can run the heroics, FP as much as you want. That's repeatable content. And to be totally honest here, in WoW apart the starting quests all classes have the exact same content. Whereas in SWTOR you have 8 totally different class content.

/**off topic**

 

Back on the topic: The stats shows, MMO wide that around 5% of players do RAIDs.

As example I've been there since beta. Have been involved in the biggest guilds both imp and reb side and yet I did not runt through all OPs. Done a handful of them, not more.

 

Thing is with RAIDs, unless you are in a large and organised enough guild AND don't have unexpected RL events it's a pain to attend to and it involves much waiting. Also you need vent (or similar).

 

So it's understandable the producer's focus isn't on operations at all.

The ROI just isn't there and players would burn through it faster than a lightsaber through butter.

 

Now what would be a smart move is to recycle them with 4 players (+ eventually 4 companions) groups. That would be new group content for over 80% of the players.

 

I would completely agree if we were talking about W* for instance where the small raids were 20 man. Here it's 8 - the minimum amount of people you need to even register a guild is half a raid so large guild is a little exaggeration. And let's even forget about raids - when was the last time they produced a semi-challenging 4-man group content?

[Damask_Rose]

Sounds like you're playing the wrong type of game in general. MMO with no end game, is not an MMO.

 

Actually, an MMO without end game is still an MMO. It might not be an MMO that you and your friends would enjoy playing, but an MMO nonetheless.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Those who are mad about no new raids are those who believe that 99 % of all PUGs are BADs, because they can't beat Master & Blaster, cynically put.

[masterceil]

Those who are mad about no new raids are those who believe that 99 % of all PUGs are BADs, because they can't beat Master & Blaster, cynically put.

 

I wouldn't say all PUGs are bad, but I've seen enough PUGs fail at even simple Tac FPs like the Czerka ones to lose a pretty significant amount of faith in them. I don't even accept Tac FP queue pops without a healer present because they just aren't likely to survive and I don't feel like wiping 5-6 times for a few crystals from a Daily. I don't queue for HMFPs or join randoms for Ops at all - those are my guild-only functions.

 

So yeah, my bar isn't so high as you say (not to say others' ain't), but even I still think PUGs are bad -.-

[lightSaberAddiCt]

It's a better discussion than the HK thread and the insesent prattle about not being able to buy subscriber rewards

 

Actually....you have a really good point

[ZETA_SCORPII]

If Bioware is working on new raids they should at least throw us a bone. There isn't much to do for those who enjoy raiding ATM and many have left due to this fact. The single player kids got their content, now let's focus on more raids. Bioware should release 4-6 new raids within a year to make up for the utter lack of endgame content.

[Tsillah]

If Bioware is working on new raids they should at least throw us a bone. There isn't much to do for those who enjoy raiding ATM and many have left due to this fact. The single player kids got their content, now let's focus on more raids. Bioware should release 4-6 new raids within a year to make up for the utter lack of endgame content.

 

When they said they were working on new group content but wouldn't say what, the instant thought that came to my mind is that it wasn't an operation. Why would they hide it if it was an operation considering that a fair few people would probably be really happy with that.

 

That doesn't make my suspicion true though but at the moment I am not expecting new Operations with the next expansion. I might be ok with that though if they come out with something that is a good alternative to doing Operations, but well, let's say I'm not exactly holding my breath either way.

[Alanbra]

My feeling is the new group content will be the Eternal Championship scaled up to require a group of four sort of like a flash point.

[Tsillah]

My feeling is the new group content will be the Eternal Championship scaled up to require a group of four sort of like a flash point.

 

You sure know how to crush a person's last remaining traces of hope for the future.

[ZETA_SCORPII]

When they said they were working on new group content but wouldn't say what, the instant thought that came to my mind is that it wasn't an operation. Why would they hide it if it was an operation considering that a fair few people would probably be really happy with that.

 

That doesn't make my suspicion true though but at the moment I am not expecting new Operations with the next expansion. I might be ok with that though if they come out with something that is a good alternative to doing Operations, but well, let's say I'm not exactly holding my breath either way.

 

It'll be a DvL Operation event where you have to go back and do every raid again with new toons hehe

[Rion_Starkiller]

Those who are mad about no new raids are those who believe that 99 % of all PUGs are BADs, because they can't beat Master & Blaster, cynically put.

 

Here we go again...

 

You should have seen all of the at-level operations before nerfs and SM bolster..

[Tsillah]

It'll be a DvL Operation event where you have to go back and do every raid again with new toons hehe

 

Excuse me for a minute while I go hang myself...

[Rion_Starkiller]

It'll be a DvL Operation event where you have to go back and do every raid again with new toons hehe

 

oh god.

 

++added ZETA_SCORPII to enemies list

[TUXs]

It'll be a DvL Operation event where you have to go back and do every raid again with new toons hehe

O M G...what's wrong with YOU?!

 

They DO read these forums ZETA.../facepalm

Edited September 1, 2016 by TUXs

[Tsetso]

It'll be a DvL Operation event where you have to go back and do every raid again with new toons hehe

 

And for legendary you have to do it on HM and NiM

[IanArgent]

Which do you think will be more accessible to a larger # of players?

 

Ops "harder than" Rav and ToS

 

or

 

Something Else that requires 8 players.

 

(Or would you rather new ops that are "easier." than the last ones in the game?)

[DreadtechSavant]

Don't do raids and just don't care about them in any way shape or form.

 

However this thread as far as I am concerned is a deliberate attempt at bating and serves no other real purpose.

[Andryah]

Don't do raids and just don't care about them in any way shape or form.

 

Yeah, I quit raiding as a primary focus in MMOs more then 8 years ago. After you've done them for years, across multiple MMOs, you tend to see them for the high end hamster wheel they are. Now days, I stay on the fill-in roster in my guild.... in case they need an extra player to fill out an OPs group without having to open it for random unknown players.

 

It's really just a big "cheese chase" with mandatory participation with other rats all seeking the same cheese. Besides, anything earned (if you are in it for the gear, which is only needed for more raiding really) becomes obsolete with the next expac, which for this MMO is just about every 12 months. Group PvP is much more entertaining and engaging IMO, but I'm well past that hamster wheel as well.

Edited September 2, 2016 by Andryah

[CorellianWannabe]

I'm still hoping a raider can explain to me why gear that would only be usable in the raid/operation is apparently so unacceptable. If they are run for the challenge then the gear still serves that puropse, and if the gear is meant to be used in other areas of the game then soloers should have access to comparable levels of power. Heck, didn't James Ohlen state that multiple heroes beating up on a single villain "isn't very heroic"?

 

 

'Why do you need raid-level gear if you don't raid?' (aka the cry of the whining raider) seems pretty self-explanatory if raiders want it to be usable in other settings- because it makes every aspect of the game easier.

 

It would seem that PVP gear already does this to an extent with expertise reducing the other stats on a piece of gear. Perhaps an 'operation value' that increased damage against mobs only within the op (while reducing mastery, power, etc.) would be a more acceptable compromise?

[LordTurin]

I'm still hoping a raider can explain to me why gear that would only be usable in the raid/operation is apparently so unacceptable. If they are run for the challenge then the gear still serves that puropse, and if the gear is meant to be used in other areas of the game then soloers should have access to comparable levels of power. Heck, didn't James Ohlen state that multiple heroes beating up on a single villain "isn't very heroic"?

 

 

'Why do you need raid-level gear if you don't raid?' (aka the cry of the whining raider) seems pretty self-explanatory if raiders want it to be usable in other settings- because it makes every aspect of the game easier.

 

It would seem that PVP gear already does this to an extent with expertise reducing the other stats on a piece of gear. Perhaps an 'operation value' that increased damage against mobs only within the op (while reducing mastery, power, etc.) would be a more acceptable compromise?

 

So speaking as a raider, do you have any proof that raiders would not agree with your idea in principle? Because how you phrased it makes it seems you have been slammed pretty hard for suggesti ng it. As a raider, I'd be fine with your suggestion (given I mostly do hm/nim content, it's not like I have problems with any other content in this game anyway for gear reasons) in principle.

 

My only concern would be that it would make even less people want to raid, which would cause me to be able to raid less. So the suggestion itself is fine, the unintended side effect of making raiding less desirable is a problem I think, though that could probably be worked around by tossing in quest line bread crumbs, shiny decorations, specual "armor look tokens" or some other things I haven't thought of yet.

[lightSaberAddiCt]

I'm still hoping a raider can explain to me why gear that would only be usable in the raid/operation is apparently so unacceptable. If they are run for the challenge then the gear still serves that puropse, and if the gear is meant to be used in other areas of the game then soloers should have access to comparable levels of power. Heck, didn't James Ohlen state that multiple heroes beating up on a single villain "isn't very heroic"?

 

 

'Why do you need raid-level gear if you don't raid?' (aka the cry of the whining raider) seems pretty self-explanatory if raiders want it to be usable in other settings- because it makes every aspect of the game easier.

 

It would seem that PVP gear already does this to an extent with expertise reducing the other stats on a piece of gear. Perhaps an 'operation value' that increased damage against mobs only within the op (while reducing mastery, power, etc.) would be a more acceptable compromise?

 

There is no compromise to be made. OPs gear is what it is. If you want it, group up and do the OPs. If not, then don't. But to try and suggest that after playing OPs long enough to collect a full set (OPs in the manner their meant to be played....in a group), then to me....that is just being petty because you don't want to join groups, and would rather have it handed to you in some solo, hand held, god droid KoTFE knockoff of OPs.

 

It is extremely easy to acquire the first tier (hell it is easy now with priority to acquire the final tier even), if you dont do it, that is your issue, not everyone elses.

 

By your logic, pvp gear should also only be limited to PVP, and be worthless in any other circumstance.

 

Just deal with the fact, that they more then likely, will ever do solo OPs. You have more of a chance of them allowing you to change your advanced class..

Edited September 2, 2016 by lightSaberAddiCt