Why are people still mad about no new raids?

[VegasTheLost]

I did. You are still pretty much ignoring others' difference. Not everyone has a raiding guild, most of the raids are formed by pugs. If pugs can't do it, it simply blocks many people out. The era is different now, players prefer short and time flexible content rather than long ops.

 

Than this game is not for them. Period. Not suites their play style. This is what you don't seem to understand. And there is no way BW will pull of an overhaul on this game with that magnitude you talking about. Conclusion. No point demanding stuff that won't happen in this game. Hope for a game that will come out as Star Wars and will satisfy your needs.

[Tsetso]

Than this game is not for them. Period. Not suites their play style. This is what you don't seem to understand. And there is no way BW will pull of an overhaul on this game with that magnitude you talking about. Conclusion. No point demanding stuff that won't happen in this game. Hope for a game that will come out as Star Wars and will satisfy your needs.

 

Don't feed the troll, please. Seems he successfully hijacked the thread, so do yourself a favor and put him on ignore.

[Quraswren]

But people don't want to play two of the trinity roles, it's not fun to them.

 

So that's like what I've been saying, nerf the trinity system.

 

Then give them incentives to play the role that is needed. Adjust the needed roles but scrap the trinity system?

God no, thats a bad move. You turn an organised system into a cluster "F" random event. Tactical and GW's showed me all I needed to know about that and it's not worth it.

 

If gamers only want to do DPS then they must deal with what comes along with that. That being more of htem than any other role and it also mean competition for GF spots. IF they don't like it, well then thats too bad.

 

Because the drops aren't really good, but it got many good points.

 

I'm not sure what good points you say or played. I sure didn't find any good points. IT screamed nothing but medicare from start to finish and thats nothing to base end game group content on.

Edited April 21, 2016 by Quraswren

[IanArgent]

Than this game is not for them. Period. Not suites their play style. This is what you don't seem to understand. And there is no way BW will pull of an overhaul on this game with that magnitude you talking about. Conclusion. No point demanding stuff that won't happen in this game. Hope for a game that will come out as Star Wars and will satisfy your needs.

 

Given they converted flashpoints to tactical, the devs would seem to disagree that the group game is to be played only by people who can get together a trinity team. It's in their interests to make the game appeal to the widest plausible audience.

 

I agree that the work to convert the existing ops to "tactical" isn't worth it. But I will be very surprised if we ever see another hard-trinity-required large-group activity, at least at the entry-level difficulty mode.

[VegasTheLost]

Given they converted flashpoints to tactical, the devs would seem to disagree that the group game is to be played only by people who can get together a trinity team. It's in their interests to make the game appeal to the widest plausible audience.

 

I agree that the work to convert the existing ops to "tactical" isn't worth it. But I will be very surprised if we ever see another hard-trinity-required large-group activity, at least at the entry-level difficulty mode.

 

I get it, I really do. And I agree with you. But I don't agree with Slowpoeking, and this thing you quoted from me is about his time consuming rant. And really it's simple as that, if someone can't afford the time investment to experience a given content, than this game and said content is not for that person. Probably Battlefront would suit more of that playstyle or other games, where all it takes to just login, enter a que, do stuff for an hour and carry on.

[Slowpokeking]

Than this game is not for them. Period. Not suites their play style. This is what you don't seem to understand. And there is no way BW will pull of an overhaul on this game with that magnitude you talking about. Conclusion. No point demanding stuff that won't happen in this game. Hope for a game that will come out as Star Wars and will satisfy your needs.

 

Then this game is going to suffer badly because it didn't meet the taste of the modern players. It's very simple. It's no longer the era of raid content focused MMO anymore.

[IanArgent]

I get it, I really do. And I agree with you. But I don't agree with Slowpoeking, and this thing you quoted from me is about his time consuming rant. And really it's simple as that, if someone can't afford the time investment to experience a given content, than this game and said content is not for that person. Probably Battlefront would suit more of that playstyle or other games, where all it takes to just login, enter a que, do stuff for an hour and carry on.

 

Check my post history - I've gone several rounds with him myself on his specific solutions to the problem.

 

Like it or not; the "standard model" of group content gaming is moving to drop-in-drop-out play; the closest model in SWTOR is unranked PvP. Because that's where the money is, basically. For all that the PvPers are shaking salt about queue times; I can get a pug PvP match basically whenever I want as a DPS. I can get a pug TFP group basically whenever I want as a DPS. I can't get an ops slot as a DPS unless I'm unreasonably lucky. One of these things has a hard team comp requirement...

[Slowpokeking]

Then give them incentives to play the role that is needed. Adjust the needed roles but scrap the trinity system?

God no, thats a bad move. You turn an organised system into a cluster "F" random event. Tactical and GW's showed me all I needed to know about that and it's not worth it.

 

If gamers only want to do DPS then they must deal with what comes along with that. That being more of htem than any other role and it also mean competition for GF spots. IF they don't like it, well then thats too bad.

It's no use if this not enough players want to roll as tanks or healers this "Organized system".

 

If they only want to DPS, it means the system itself is flawed because it didn't let the players want to roll tank/healer yet making them necessary.

 

I'm not sure what good points you say or played. I sure didn't find any good points. IT screamed nothing but medicare from start to finish and thats nothing to base end game group content on.

 

Other than the bug, it's soloable and gets better if you have a group.

[Toraak]

The system isn't broken. How many people have stopped doing the FP's since they went Tactical in 4.0? I know I haven't bothered wasting my time. People seem to think that SM pug runs should be instant queu's, why? as someone who has healed in Progression groups in 2.0, I wouldn't want to heal dps who are doing the tank mechanics or turning the boss towards everyone else for the entire fight. I also wouldn't want to waste my time DPS'ing a non trinity Operation. so those looking to get rid of the trinity your just thinking of lowering the queu's, not what is best for raiding itself.

 

The real thing everyone should be willing to do is help teach others how to tank, be less of ******** to tank and healers if you wipe, and make friends with Tanks you do see. Make a group from these friends. The more polite we can be as a community, it may help us get more tanks into pug runs, instead of driving off the tanks to hold the lockouts for only guild runs, which is what has been happening for a very long time.

[IanArgent]

The system isn't broken. How many people have stopped doing the FP's since they went Tactical in 4.0? I know I haven't bothered wasting my time. People seem to think that SM pug runs should be instant queu's, why? as someone who has healed in Progression groups in 2.0, I wouldn't want to heal dps who are doing the tank mechanics or turning the boss towards everyone else for the entire fight. I also wouldn't want to waste my time DPS'ing a non trinity Operation. so those looking to get rid of the trinity your just thinking of lowering the queu's, not what is best for raiding itself.

 

The real thing everyone should be willing to do is help teach others how to tank, be less of ******** to tank and healers if you wipe, and make friends with Tanks you do see. Make a group from these friends. The more polite we can be as a community, it may help us get more tanks into pug runs, instead of driving off the tanks to hold the lockouts for only guild runs, which is what has been happening for a very long time.

 

There's enough people doing TFPs on my server that I can get into the queue and into a group quick enough when I want to. They may not be "progression raiders" but they're sure enough players. Seems to be plenty enough people playing them; even if they aren't veterans.

 

What's best for the game is lots of people subscribing to it. One of the ways to entice people to subscribe is to let them play as much as possible within the game according to their own play style, not how other people want them to play. You say you won't play non-trinity ops; well, I would be all over that; and judging by the story mode FP queues before and after the tactical conversion, I'm not unique

[VegasTheLost]

The real thing everyone should be willing to do is help teach others how to tank, be less of ******** to tank and healers if you wipe, and make friends with Tanks you do see. Make a group from these friends. The more polite we can be as a community, it may help us get more tanks into pug runs, instead of driving off the tanks to hold the lockouts for only guild runs, which is what has been happening for a very long time.

 

According to Slow the "modern gamers" don't want to bother with these stuffs. According to others there SHOULD BE a solo option for every operation because everyone should experience a story they want to. In this case as much as I wan't to help anyone I'm unable to do cuz how can I help someone whos not willing to ask questions, not willing to group up and not willing to make the least effort to see something they interested in. Believe me I would gladly help anyone, but it seems as far as "modern gamers" go it's more reasonable to ask for nerfs and dumbing down.

[Toraak]

There's enough people doing TFPs on my server that I can get into the queue and into a group quick enough when I want to. They may not be "progression raiders" but they're sure enough players. Seems to be plenty enough people playing them; even if they aren't veterans.

 

What's best for the game is lots of people subscribing to it. One of the ways to entice people to subscribe is to let them play as much as possible within the game according to their own play style, not how other people want them to play. You say you won't play non-trinity ops; well, I would be all over that; and judging by the story mode FP queues before and after the tactical conversion, I'm not unique

 

The problem is for an Operation to be tuned so you don't need tanks or healers, would make the operations so completely easy that it wouldn't be worth it for a lot of players. There would be absolutely zero challenge to it. (oh wait, just like SM Operations are now). However if your including actual challenging content like HM or NiM Ops as well from removing the trinity, nobody would do them ever. There would be zero challenge.

 

As I stated before. Trinity isn't broken. you just need to make friends with tanks/healers.

[IanArgent]

The problem is for an Operation to be tuned so you don't need tanks or healers, would make the operations so completely easy that it wouldn't be worth it for a lot of players. There would be absolutely zero challenge to it. (oh wait, just like SM Operations are now). However if your including actual challenging content like HM or NiM Ops as well from removing the trinity, nobody would do them ever. There would be zero challenge.

 

As I stated before. Trinity isn't broken. you just need to make friends with tanks/healers.

 

Only the basic difficulty mode; today's Story Mode. Just like the flashpoints on Hard Mode have party composition requirements.

[Slowpokeking]

According to Slow the "modern gamers" don't want to bother with these stuffs. According to others there SHOULD BE a solo option for every operation because everyone should experience a story they want to. In this case as much as I wan't to help anyone I'm unable to do cuz how can I help someone whos not willing to ask questions, not willing to group up and not willing to make the least effort to see something they interested in. Believe me I would gladly help anyone, but it seems as far as "modern gamers" go it's more reasonable to ask for nerfs and dumbing down.

 

It's not nerf or dumbing down, but not asking for a group.

[Slowpokeking]

The system isn't broken. How many people have stopped doing the FP's since they went Tactical in 4.0? I know I haven't bothered wasting my time. People seem to think that SM pug runs should be instant queu's, why? as someone who has healed in Progression groups in 2.0, I wouldn't want to heal dps who are doing the tank mechanics or turning the boss towards everyone else for the entire fight. I also wouldn't want to waste my time DPS'ing a non trinity Operation. so those looking to get rid of the trinity your just thinking of lowering the queu's, not what is best for raiding itself.

 

The real thing everyone should be willing to do is help teach others how to tank, be less of ******** to tank and healers if you wipe, and make friends with Tanks you do see. Make a group from these friends. The more polite we can be as a community, it may help us get more tanks into pug runs, instead of driving off the tanks to hold the lockouts for only guild runs, which is what has been happening for a very long time.

 

Then why didn't this happen to the DPS classes?

[peter_plankskull]

It's not nerf or dumbing down, but not asking for a group.

 

Come on slow poking... you literally hijacked this thread after discussing a subject that went for actually 500 pages. You tried man.... im glad your persistent but this subject has been beaten to death, and if you really want to continue it bump your old thread.

[Slowpokeking]

Come on slow poking... you literally hijacked this thread after discussing a subject that went for actually 500 pages. You tried man.... im glad your persistent but this subject has been beaten to death, and if you really want to continue it bump your old thread.

 

But this is indeed the major problem of raid today. Many many players no longer want to spend so much time to find a group and spend hours into it.

[peter_plankskull]

But this is indeed the major problem of raid today. Many many players no longer want to spend so much time to find a group and spend hours into it.

 

Then their should be a new group finder queue and a new interest to surge players into raiding that should be done instead, not making raiding easier. The goal should be to more raiding more accessible, not easier.

Edited April 21, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Slowpokeking]

Then their should be a new group finder queue and a new interest to surge players into raiding that should be done instead, not making raiding easier. The goal should be to more raiding more accessible, not easier.

 

Or they should design/rescale the content into single player/2men content so players could do stuff whenever possible, or nerf the trinity to make it much easier to form a group.

[Eanelinea]

Most of the guys I run with are here for HM raid content, for a few reasons:

 

1) To get the best gear we can get.

 

Yeah and it gets reset months to a year later.

 

2) The challenge of defeating the bosses. Even better if its the first time completion.

 

True. I liked the challenges too. Especially as a tank in hm trying to down certain bosses that made me want to smack something.

 

3) Parsing against each other to see how well we're doing with the gear we've acquired.

 

This I've never cared about. I put my new gear on, I do my job of tanking, healing or dpsing. I don't care if I'm better, worse, or the same as the others. I'm there to get it done and move on.

 

4) We just absolutely enjoy the camaraderie and it's truly lots of fun.

 

I'm usually quite in vent/ts/mumble. I only talked if I had to. Otherwise, I kept quiet and it annoyed me if I was trying to listen to instructions and some turd kept talking or acting like they knew everything.

 

That said, and sadly, lack of new Ops content has driven off some of the guys I enjoy playing with most. I form up raids three nights a week, and it's becoming a struggle for me to keep consistent members these days. There are lots of folks who feel the same way, and I am sorry if any of you disagree, but this is a big deal to a lot of us.

 

My responses in red.

[peter_plankskull]

Or they should design/rescale the content into single player/2men content so players could do stuff whenever possible, or nerf the trinity to make it much easier to form a group.

Then it wouldn't be a operation anymore.

 

A operation is group oriented content done with a large group to overcome obstacles together with a tank, healer, and dps, not with a companion or all DPS groups or whatever.

[Slowpokeking]

Then it wouldn't be a operation anymore.

 

A operation is group oriented content done with a large group to overcome obstacles together with a tank, healer, and dps, not with a companion or all DPS groups or whatever.

 

But the problem is that not that many people want to do large group content with specific roles anymore because it's very time consuming to find a group and do it. They want drop in drop out content. This is WHY we got no new ops right now. If ops wants to "live on", it needs to change to fit players' taste.

[IanArgent]

Then it wouldn't be a operation anymore.

 

A operation is group oriented content done with a large group to overcome obstacles together with a tank, healer, and dps, not with a companion or all DPS groups or whatever.

 

Do you think Operations in that form will ever come back? If so, I present Exhibit A in group content - the Heroic Star Fortresses. Based on the history of the game as I see it; those would have been Flashpoints under previous design paradigms; they're even structured a little like a FP. Exhibit B) Story Mode flashpoints were made tactical.

 

Entry level group content formatted to require trinity teams is no longer the direction the designers are going. "Mechanical challenge" content is some of the hardest to produce and balance for fun/difficulty; look at the delays in producing the Eternal Championship. Going forward, if they put that amount of effort into any particular section of the game, they're going to open it to the widest possible audience...

[Eanelinea]

There are plenty of solo play opportunities. Have you done all 8 class mission? Every planetary quest? Every heroic? Every bonus quest? Every planetary bonus line? Gotten every datacron (aside from the 3 that require a group)? Done every sidequest? Done every solo mode FP? I would agree that there needs to be plenty of stuff for both solo and group play, but I would argue that making it the same content doable by both is silly. Variety is the spice of life as they say, and that is especially true in MMOs.

 

I have 34 toons, and 15 are 65, yes I've done all 8 class stories MULTIPLE times on MULTIPLE servers.

 

Planetary quest, yes. Been here in the beginning when leveling was slower and you only had rested experience. Did all the planetary quests on all planets.

 

Every heroic. Yes, I have Galactic Hero title.

 

Every bonus quest? Yup, including the planetary bonus lines. (I hate Hoth's level 47 one when it was a thing)

 

Yup, every datacron in game. I have the title, the stronghold decoration and my legacy datacron thing is maxed out.

 

Side quest? Yup, part of the planetary quest chain waaaaaaay back in 1.0-2.0 days.

 

Did every flashpoint when it was group related. All solo modes. And all the tacticals.

 

Did every operation out there too.

 

All reputations are maxxed out.

 

I've tried space combat, GSF, talking to all my companions, I've got 11 of 12 originals I got back to rank 50. Did chapters 1-12 of KotFE on 11 toons. Um...events, did Rakghoul (before Kaon Under Siege and after (the newer one)), Chevin Event, Macro binocular, Seeker Droid quest. Um, Summer Nar Shaddaa gambling event. Bounty Brokers, Gree. All maxed.

 

Alliances Specialists, all four of them, to rank 20 on 8 people. Hmmm. Now all I need is to get all planets to 100% achievement complete.

 

Um...still here, did it all and then some.

[Brayla_Sana]

To answer the OP's question, I am not sure if it's anger or lament. It looks as though raids have become less popular, due to the target audience (GenX - older Millennial gamers) getting older and not having time to form progression raid groups and do them due to RL and having more responsibilities. I am one of the luckier ones, in that my husband and I are both gamers - so I have more time than most - but even that has whittled down because of jobs, kids, etc.

 

Younger Millennials mostly play phone/tablet games, and many do not own a PC. This means that the market for new players is shrinking for MMO's in general.

 

The honest truth is, you will not see much more in terms of Operations, unless the numbers support it. Video games are a business, and regardless of how vocal a minority is, catering to a small group of players does not pay the bills.