Total unbalance

[PetkOFF]

This game is total unbalance. Whit my Jugg i just see how Operatives play on me. No chance to kill him whit these stuns, fast moves, hides, heals and what more ...?I was stop playing 2012 now back and the game is worst. Non-stop stuns in Warzones. Omg. No FUN. I think Bioware must do something or all servers from light will go to empty. In other PvP games after 1st stun ( 4 sec ) next is 3 sec, 2 sec and imune for some time. Here you just die in stun. I am not so good player and not so bad but they make me to look like idiot. Maybe after 2 mounts gaming is time to rest another 4 ears.

[sumquy]

This game is total unbalance. Whit my Jugg i just see how Operatives play on me. No chance to kill him whit these stuns, fast moves, hides, heals and what more ...?I was stop playing 2012 now back and the game is worst. Non-stop stuns in Warzones. Omg. No FUN. I think Bioware must do something or all servers from light will go to empty. In other PvP games after 1st stun ( 4 sec ) next is 3 sec, 2 sec and imune for some time. Here you just die in stun. I am not so good player and not so bad but they make me to look like idiot. Maybe after 2 mounts gaming is time to rest another 4 ears.

 

jugg is the most durable class in the entire game and does good damage. you should not be having any trouble with an operative. at worst you should be able to force him to stealth out and run away, but in no case should he be beating you. juggs are one of the problems in pvp right now, not victims.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Everybody says that Operartives are the best 1v1 duelling class - next to Shadows. It's meant to be so.

 

And then there is that "nerf Operatives" meme out there, which fully ridicules that.

[sumquy]

Everybody says that Operartives are the best 1v1 duelling class - next to Shadows. It's meant to be so.

 

And then there is that "nerf Operatives" meme out there, which fully ridicules that.

 

i have never heard anyone call operatives the best 1v1 dueling class, much less "everybody". operatives either stealth out or die. granted it can take a long time to force that choice because he has a lot of damage mitigation abilities, but they hit like wiffle ball bats and are easily rooted, knockedback, etc. the nerf ops meme is funny because they are one of the weakest and bw is bw so they probably will.

[wepeel]

This game is total unbalance. Whit my Jugg i just see how Operatives play on me.

 

Troll post? Ever faced a gunslinger/sniper on your juggernaut? I primarily play one and I can tell you that there's very little we can do against you. An operative would take even longer to kill you; once they've spent their opening burst they essentially need to be able to go in for the kill (not an option with a jugg) or consider withdrawing.

[wepeel]

i have never heard anyone call operatives the best 1v1 dueling class.

 

I have heard it plenty about concealment ops. Combination of their utility with resetting combat and healing to full, great mobility and the relatively high skill ceiling, I think. A good operative tends to be extremely tricky to deal with.

Edited March 31, 2016 by wepeel

[foxmob]

jugg is the most durable class in the entire game and does good damage. you should not be having any trouble with an operative. at worst you should be able to force him to stealth out and run away, but in no case should he be beating you. juggs are one of the problems in pvp right now, not victims.

 

lolwut?

 

I don't care how good you play your jugg. you're not killing an op who knows what he's doing. that's not to say the op will kill him (although he should), but an op can always escape and heal. ideally, he can mezz you and heal while your jugg sits there on the brink of death.

 

as for the original poster, this game is never going to be balanced around 1v1, and stealth always have and always will have an advantage in 1v1. that's why all the dueling tournaments have separate stealth brackets. juggs are fine right now. if anything, rage spec is too easy. your problem is thinking you should be able to 1v1 a stealth in the first place. on the bright side, most stealth specs melt under focus, and they have to hide away out of combat whereas your jugg can pop his dcds and keep churning out dmg while focused.

[Iona_Var]

If you are "being stunned to death" as a jugg then you need more practice. Juggs are in a very good place right now(some would argue too good) and unless you're talking low or mid pvp, you shouldn't have much trouble be stunned. Operatives were, are, and always will be a nuisance to some people, you just need to learn to adapt. You could always ask a good operative to duel you a few times to practice.

[ThnderHorse]

I would say I find the balance quit enjoyable aside form giving Sorcs/Sages PW...I feel like its almost gamebreaking wen playing the class well enough...PW out of trouble and heal to full....Operative can't do it. Mando can't...I feel like the pvp was at such a great state during 3.0. I loved and it.

[power-alex]

Jugs are very easy to beat as an operative in 1v1. You just have to expect that you will have to do tripple their health in damage if you don't play it smart enough and let them heal of your dots.

If you're low on health you can kite them easily while healing up. Roll their biggest hits, dodge their ravage, flashbang their enraged defense and you're in the clear. Don't forget to stop attacking when saber reflect is up.

 

i have never heard anyone call operatives the best 1v1 dueling class, much less "everybody". operatives either stealth out or die. granted it can take a long time to force that choice because he has a lot of damage mitigation abilities, but they hit like wiffle ball bats and are easily rooted, knockedback, etc. the nerf ops meme is funny because they are one of the weakest and bw is bw so they probably will.

 

I don't know what kind of operatives you've been facing, but defninetely not skilled ones. There's a reason stealth is in a separate bracket when it comes to dueling tournaments.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=866402.

Edited April 1, 2016 by power-alex

[Wimbleton]

Good OPs can 1v1 anything. You sound like a bad Jugg. Bad Juggs are a hard-to-kill-wet-noodle, so it was probably a mediocre OP. There are lots of those. But when you run into a good one, you'll know it as they prance off with 80% health and you've just mashed every button your character has before teleporting back to the spawn box.

[DarthOvertone]

This game is total unbalance.

 

It's not total imbalance. Balance is off a bit though.

 

I think more than anything, peeps are just tired of the same Meta.

[Volthammer]

i have never heard anyone call operatives the best 1v1 dueling class, much less "everybody". operatives either stealth out or die. granted it can take a long time to force that choice because he has a lot of damage mitigation abilities, but they hit like wiffle ball bats and are easily rooted, knockedback, etc. the nerf ops meme is funny because they are one of the weakest and bw is bw so they probably will.

 

I politely disagree with you, Sum. People have been griping about Con-Ops 1v1 ability since launch. And until 65 regs they are exceptional at 1v1. We are by no means forced to "stealth out or die" in most 1v1 instances. LOL

[Lhancelot]

i have never heard anyone call operatives the best 1v1 dueling class, much less "everybody". operatives either stealth out or die

 

Well. They say you learn something new everyday. Grats, you just learned that ops are indeed the best 1v1 class in the game. I don't know anyone that PVPs frequently that doesn't say ops are the best 1v1 class.

[Volthammer]

Well. They say you learn something new everyday. Grats, you just learned that ops are indeed the best 1v1 class in the game. I don't know anyone that PVPs frequently that doesn't say ops are the best 1v1 class.

 

/salute. Thank you, Lhance.

 

Edited to say that I think Sum has been fighting Con-Ops with less then 800 expertise, if in lows and mids. And if it's 65's they have to have been in total PvE gear. Had to have been.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Volthammer

[power-alex]

But when you run into a good one, you'll know it as they prance off with 80% health and you've just mashed every button your character has before teleporting back to the spawn box.

 

lol, so true and word choice is exceptional 100/10

Edited April 2, 2016 by power-alex

[Savej]

i have never heard anyone call operatives the best 1v1 dueling class, much less "everybody". operatives either stealth out or die. granted it can take a long time to force that choice because he has a lot of damage mitigation abilities, but they hit like wiffle ball bats and are easily rooted, knockedback, etc. the nerf ops meme is funny because they are one of the weakest and bw is bw so they probably will.

 

Dueling tournaments - if they're at all legit there will be no real contest as to who wins (operatives all the way). Snave hosts a bunch and he's had to create two separate brackets: one for stealth (operatives) and one for non-stealth. In the non-stealth bracket juggs don't do very well at all, btw.

[AlrikFassbauer]

What I still do not understand, then, is why that "nerf Operatives" meme is still kept busy.

 

I mean, it was meant to ridicult the need to do something about the duelling powah of Operatives - and I don't remember seeing many non-duelling Operatives at all. I mean, almost 99 % of all Operatives I see within the playing field are duelling ones, sooner or later. The minority is healers. I mean, that's the perspective of me playing my favourite class, Gunslinger.

 

If this meme is kept busy, then it's with the intention to *not* nerf Operatives, because, well, that meme has evolved into something that makes fun of any attempt to "nerf Operatives".

 

Or, in other words : Players do know how powerful Operatives are,

and because of that they do *not* want that class to get nerfed. At least not as a duelling class.

 

If I break down classes into what they are good at, then I'd say - just as an example :

 

- Class -> role

 

- Sorc -> Healing

- OP -> Duelling

- Merc - long-range

- Jugg -> tanking

 

This just as an example.

 

There will seemingly always be a certain class which represents the top of a certain role ( like in the list above ). But that also means that all other classes of the same role just aren't as good as this class is.

 

Another implication is that there should always be counters to something - imho - available to ANY class. I mean that in my opinion *any* class should be able to counter

 

- long range

- duelling

- tank ?

- healing ?

 

somehow, although I must admit that tanking and healing cannot get countered by design, because ... well, how would you do that ? Implement an ability that "lifts" guarding from someone who is guarded ? Implementing an ability which decreses the healing someone who is healed can get ? (This exists already.)

 

So, Operatives have seemingly right now no real counter to duelling if they are THAT strong in duelling.

And, my persional, probabkly biased opinion is, that the excellent duelling options that Operatives have should get nerfed a bit. There rest can stay as it is now.

 

I mean, what point is it to play *any* class if there is a 99,99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % chance for it to fall prey to an operative in duelling ? Because the Operative always does the first strike when getting out of stealth. How do you escape / kite from someone who is in stealth and sneaks up to you ? Break the stun/mezz/root/whatever so that you can get stunned/mezzed/rooted/whatever even better ?

 

If there is no escape possible, then there is something inbalanced, in my opinion.

[Kaedusz]

^ imo sniper is equal or better at long range in perfect scenarios(like no los opportunity, etc..) Edited April 2, 2016 by Kaedusz

[wepeel]

I mean, what point is it to play *any* class if there is a 99,99999999999999999999999999999999999999999 % chance for it to fall prey to an operative in duelling ? Because the Operative always does the first strike when getting out of stealth. How do you escape / kite from someone who is in stealth and sneaks up to you ?

 

Other MMOs have handled it in various ways. Perhaps a debuff that can't be purged that makes a stealthed character visible to everyone on the same team as the caster, or prevents stealthing again while it lasts. Compare hunters and rogues in WoW.

 

As for healing, a counter to that already exists as you say, but maybe it needs to be higher than 20% (given the current power of healing in pvp).

 

When it comes to tanking it's not the tanking in itself that needs to be dealt with in pvp terms imo; rather the damage output-to-tankability ratio of characters who can simultaneously deal tremendous damage and take a very long time to kill, like PTs and juggernauts.

[Kazz_Devlin]

This game is total unbalance. Whit my Jugg i just see how Operatives play on me. No chance to kill him whit these stuns, fast moves, hides, heals and what more ...?I was stop playing 2012 now back and the game is worst. Non-stop stuns in Warzones. Omg. No FUN. I think Bioware must do something or all servers from light will go to empty. In other PvP games after 1st stun ( 4 sec ) next is 3 sec, 2 sec and imune for some time. Here you just die in stun. I am not so good player and not so bad but they make me to look like idiot. Maybe after 2 mounts gaming is time to rest another 4 ears.

 

 

okay I fixed it for you cause you made my brain hurt reading that ^:

This Game is Totally unbalanced. When on my Jug, I get destroyed by Operatives because there's no chance to kill them with all their stuns, Rolls, cloak etc etc. I stopped playing back in 2012 and just came back and the game has gotten worse. All these non-stop stuns in a war-zone are no fun at all to play. Bioware should do something or all servers that have a light population will soon become vacant. In other MMO/PVP games, stuns have diminishing returns ( 4 sec ) next is 3 sec, 2 sec and imune for some time.) here you just die from being stun locked. I am a below average player and thus this is why I keep getting owned and instead of learning what I am doing wrong I scream unbalanced! Maybe after two months of gaming it's time to quit for another four years.

 

My reply

Yes, it is unbalanced your playing one of the lol face roll over keyboard classes that own just about everyone and the fact that your getting owned is more or less because you do not know how to play the class. I will admit that Operatives stab stab, stab, stun, stab, stab, stab, stab, Roll, stab, stab, stab, stun, stab, stab, stab, roll is annoying as all hell and does merit a nerf or two or subjected to slows reducing roll distance or removing the restriction to jump / phantom stride to them. That said if you know how to play your class you should be able to kill them. While I am not opposed to DR on stuns there is a limit on how many times one can stun you before the resolve bar fills up. Usually you get two stuns before you get immunity though this depends on what type of stun it is etc etc and as usual it doesn't always work. Been plenty of times resolve bar is full and I get stunned or mezz'd.

 

Jug on the other hand in my opinion having an ability that heals to full regardless of the fact that this is done by someone causing dmg to them is utter BS especially sense every other DPS class gets a meager 15% of total health for a dam heal. So if the devs what this ability in game AT MOST is should offer a 15% of total health just like all the rest of us DPS.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Kazz_Devlin

[Yezzan]

Firstly, if you are playing against an operative that sucks, it's probably me, trying to get my weekly comms to min-max my other toons. Operatives are not the easiest class to play, but if the player is even semi-decent, he can be the biggest pain in a kath-hound backside. They are definitely good at delay tactics. if you are a Juggernaut then switch to Immortal discipline and wear DPS gear. So, even if the OP is very good it will take a hell of a lot of time to kill you. If you are a DPS but you keep getting wreck'd, you might want to swap out your focus offhand for a shield generator and switch to Soresu form. This will lower your DPS output but you will live longer and can kill most opponents.

 

Also, you should always be 2018 expertise because if you have low expertise, you will get wreck'd. Try to get a full set of high level PvP gear and augment it. This will boost your performance significantly; and while it doesn't mean you get an "I win" button, it means a lot more survivability. OFC, none of this matters if you are under level 65. At that stage you just need to grind wz so that when you hit 65, you will have enough wz comms for at least a full set of entry level pvp gear.

 

As for balance, there is no way to achieve that, realistically, when the only difference between PvP and PvE is how you gear your character.

[kweassa]

Guy's obviously a newbie, one of those who think that they're good, and therefore, concludes that it has to be some sort of a problem with 'balance' when they keep on losing against someone.

 

Cut him some slack, guys. We were all there once.

 

 

(ps) His sentiment would have been right pre-1.2 days, with all those early-days of broken stuff where smugg/ops used to have way too high defense penetration, coupled with that ice water or something (can't even remember the name), They used to be able to just facetank any class and stick a shiv into one's guts until you keeled over... have the best defensives, and could just stealth out and heal to 100% with that water item or something.

 

But wow.. that's like.. 4 years ago.

[PetkOFF]

I will never say - I AM PRO I just play for fun. I am not so bad or best pro fighter in the game. For me this is just way to kill some time and adrenal In WOW i have Retry Paladin and i have no problem to defend alone The Flag around 40-60 sec until my team help me. Here this is impossible. I just say what i see. I switch from vengeance to rage and now do more DPS to him but still no chance. In other side if i see Mercenary i know that this is my free fast kill. Against Marauder 50/50. Vanguard is very hard but not impossible and duel whit him is very fun.

In the final when i lose my time and my money i will say everything I think.

[kweassa]

I will never say - I AM PRO I just play for fun. I am not so bad or best pro fighter in the game. For me this is just way to kill some time and adrenal In WOW i have Retry Paladin and i have no problem to defend alone The Flag around 40-60 sec until my team help me. Here this is impossible. I just say what i see. I switch from vengeance to rage and now do more DPS to him but still no chance. In other side if i see Mercenary i know that this is my free fast kill. Against Marauder 50/50. Vanguard is very hard but not impossible and duel whit him is very fun.

In the final when i lose my time and my money i will say everything I think.

 

Yep friend.

 

"You just say what you see, and you just see what you know."

 

 

(ps) maybe I should go into PR business. I make a lot of nice catchphrases...