Subscribers check your cartel coin ledgers, BioWare may be ripping you off.

[ZXFiveNineAFour]

Feeling pretty relaxed.

 

It is my opinion those concerns are petty.

Is that opinion not allowed?

 

Using the same 'principle' logic, one of mine is to speak up when I see gamers being petty.

 

Referring to 'getting ripped off' and 'how long have they known', these are petty.

 

Had the thread been more like "Hey, I think see an issue" for instance, I might not have even posted.

Vague, inflammatory rhetoric is to be crushed.

 

My principles are just as important as the next persons are, right?

 

Yes, of course your opinion is allowed. I would also agree that 3 to 5 dollars is not a huge deal. However, my opinion is that the reaction in this thread is mainly not over the top. Sending an electronic message to the company to see if they will fix an issue they created is not a huge deal either. It is not as if anyone here was calling for a march on Austin.

 

It also appears that the message was received and handled seriously.

 

Also, yes, there was some vaguely inflammatory rhetoric in this thread. My opinion, though, is that these:

 

If the virtual equivalent of $3 to $5 dollars over the course of a year or more is a big deal to you, SWTOR is not your main problem IMO.

 

To those who choose to pick this nit based on their principles, more power to you.

 

I'll be over here relaxing.

 

were just as equal in their inflammatory nature. It also appears they were intended to be. They do not appear to be an attempt to stamp out inflammatory rhetoric. That is just my opinion, however.

[Alssaran]

Then you should apologize.

 

Edit: Then I apologize for that after your explanation. In your statement (even while checking the fifth page for any context I might have missed), the only thing that remained was actually you stating what I quoted above, and no hint about it being an unbiased explanation rather than an actual addition of ones opinion to the discussion.

 

But one tip: You might want to actually make sure that there is no simple mix up going on before writing stuff like "Your imagined story is a fun read, but nothing I said, so defend yourself against your pretend issues.". Attacking someone will simply escalate the issue onto a completely new level. Rather than that, you could have simply wrote: "Are you sure you have all the context?" or "I'm not sure you've seen all of the exchange. Read again.".

 

A "personal attack", no matter however minor it might appear to you, is seldom a good way of trying to defuse a situation that's based on a simple missunderstanding of context.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Alssaran

[Max_Killjoy]

Also, yes, there was some vaguely inflammatory rhetoric in this thread. My opinion, though, is that these:

 

were just as equal in their inflammatory nature. It also appears they were intended to be. They do not appear to be an attempt to stamp out inflammatory rhetoric. That is just my opinion, however.

 

Indeed... it wasn't the "I don't care, this isn't a big deal" that lead to me saying something to him -- it was the "I don't care, and if you do, there's something wrong with you, LOL".

[IanArgent]

It's very close to, but not yet over, a 30 day delay. 24 days of delay if the August grant was delayed and the March grant was similarly delayed. It'd be a goodwill gesture to do something about it, even if they haven't quite shorted us by a month if we've been subscribed full time during that period. Edited March 28, 2016 by IanArgent

[Tsillah]

Huh?

 

How am I being unreasonable? I was simply explaining that the 3-day delay, on a singular level, is "no big deal"...multiply that by tens or hundreds of thousands, and it's suddenly a VERY large amount of days and CC's not going out.

 

This 'minor' delay has removed 10% of the CC's they would have given out. What do you find unreasonable about that?

 

They are still going out, just with a delay. What you may not understand is that if a grant of cc's is 3 days late it will only be a reduction in actual CC's every 10 months because 10x3 is 30 days or a month. The fact that a grant is 3 days late by itself doesn't reduce the amount of CC's given out. It will only reduce it the moment it catches up with a full month. We haven't reached those 10 months yet so if they fix it next week it will not have cost anybody any CC, it just changed the date when you got them.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Tsillah

[Unperson]

I'll just use myself as an example. According to my CC history, the glitch first appeared with the October award, which was three days late. Counting from October through March, I should have received six CC awards. I see that I only received six CC awards in that period. Wait, what? One, two, three ... yep. Six. Granted, my sixth award (March) arrived eighteen days "late" (which I expected: six months x three days each month). But CC's are not "justice" ... delayed CCs are not denied CCs.

 

As for this being a "big deal", I disagree. There is no basis on which to view this incident in the macro perspective. Sure, a small issue can affect a large number of people. But it can also do so and remain a small issue. There is no benefit to SWTOR and no harm to the overall player-base. Any "harm" is on the micro level ... a series of minor impacts on the players individually. This has, at worst, been an inconvenience. My opinion can be changed only when confronted by proof that, because of this glitch, a player never receives CCs to which he is entitled. Only then can we start tossing about terms like "sham."

 

Wrong, on both accounts.

 

As you stated, and as Eric admitted the delay accumulates over time. This means that, in the course of eleven months, you would only have received ten "monthly" grants. What would happen if you unsubscribed at that point, for whatever reason? Would you get your "delayed" grant, 33 days after no longer holding an active subscription?

 

Delayed CCs are still contrary to what they state in the subscriber reward FAQ, so yeah, not getting something that your money is paying for (i.e. delivery in a timely manner).

 

And yes, it is a big deal. Look up class action to understand why small issues affecting large amounts of people are, in fact, big issues. If everyone is affected by this, it means that BW is handing out significantly less CCs over long periods. Yes, to each individual user, it is at worst an inconvenience. Looking at the whole picture, it's a lot of money in CCs that aren't going out to subscribers. Is the sky falling? No. Is it an issue worth bringing up and demanding a fix for? You bet.

 

That being said, it is good that they have come forward and admitted that there is a problem and stated that there is a fix in the works. I'm not entirely reassured that they have waited until somebody found this and decided to raise a stink to do it, though.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Unperson

[ThrakhathSpawn]

I would recommend if they will not fix your cycle grant, to coincide with your subscription period, to unsub until your old grants catch up.

[Max_Killjoy]

As usual, I'm not quite sure I get either end of the reactions... it is something to be concerned about, and it is good that BW is addressing it, and attempting to blow it off as nothing (and in some cases belittle those who aren't blowing it off) isn't realistic. Flipping out about it is also not realistic.

[ivanhedgehog]

Just saying its a virtual currency that you're getting for free from being a sub, it isn't that big of a deal....And if the issue ends being fixed than its over. They're not going to compensate people for it.

 

Unless the only reason you're a sub is to get a low 500 monthly CC grant...

 

It is only free if they say"no purchase necessary' TANSTAFL

 

There is a cost involved, so it aint free.

[Alssaran]

Is it an issue worth bringing up and demanding a fix for? You bet.

 

It's not necessarily about the issue not being worth the time to ask for a fix. It's how you ask for that fix that makes all the difference.

 

You ask in a considerate manner for a timely fix and you ask if your CC will be refunded if you missed an entire CC distribution? That's alright.

 

You demand that Bioware fix this by tomorrow and you will consider class action lawsuit if this isn't fixed when you return from taking a shower? That's the wrong approach.

 

I think Bioware will refund the CC, if they find out that anyone has missed an entire CC grant based on this incident. Right now, the error only makes the CC grant come later, and not stops it outright. That means that everyone received his monthly CC, just three days later. Seeing this is supposed to be going on since last September-October, I think it's somewhat of 15 days delay for most people by now. That means - if I understood the issue correctly - that people still receive all necessary CC grants, but they are just later than usual the next month. The real issue (e.g missing payments) will start to crop up in ~3 months, but Bioware claims to have a fix for next week.

 

It's not the fact that people ask for a fix that makes so little sense. It's all in the how. If I ask for a fix from Bioware - no matter previous expectations/events - I do so nicely and in a polite manner. Paying 12.99€ a month for playing a game does not excuse you from decency. But when people start to throw around the term "possible lawsuit" again, and even make a thread that says "Check your bill! They might be trying to rip you off...", that's when I lose all sympathy for the case.

 

There is a cost involved, so it aint free.

 

If you go and purchase a car and receive a complimentary chocolate with your purchase, will you complain to the car dealer because the chocolate is not the flavour you like? Or because it's an inferior mark to X? Or will you go back and complain that you didn't get the chocolate, but the other customer did?

 

This "but I have to purchase a subscription to receive this CC! Thus it ain't free!" is an old rumor that's floating around. It's a free addition on top of a financial service. You do not subscribe because of it, and I dare say most people enjoying the game would subscribe without it. It's so important to people that - till this day - it seems half the game hasn't even found out that there is an issue with CC distribution.

 

CC isn't free, that much is correct. But you receive this CC on top of a transaction that you purchase without the ultimate intention to make CC. You are purchasing unlimited time and a restriction free access to the game. Thus, I dare say the CC is a free bonus.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Alssaran

[EricMusco]

Hey folks,

 

I want to address up a couple of questions I am seeing in the thread.

 

Will we be compensated for the Cartel Coins we missed receiving?

No one should have missed receiving any coins due to this issue. When you have 30 days of subscription time, you will receive your monthly Cartel Coin grant during that 30 day window. That is still true. Due to this issue you may receive it on a later day then you did previously, but you will still receive it within your current subscription window.

 

I checked my ledger and I am missing XXX coins, what do I do?

Understand that this issue has only been going on since August of last year. The accumulation of 3 day delays has not occurred enough at this time to cause any issues in granting Coins. You should have received all Cartel Coin grants as intended (although perhaps a few days later than usual). If you feel you are missing any of your Cartel Coin grants please contact CS.

 

It was really important to us that we got this addressed before anyone was impacted, especially if that impact meant losing Cartel Coins. Again, no one will have lost any Cartel Coins, it is possible only that your grant will later into your 30-day subscription window. Thanks everyone!

 

-eric

[Andryah]

As usual, I'm not quite sure I get either end of the reactions... it is something to be concerned about, and it is good that BW is addressing it, and attempting to blow it off as nothing (and in some cases belittle those who aren't blowing it off) isn't realistic. Flipping out about it is also not realistic.

 

^^ /Agree.

 

Personally, I can't get too worked up about it one way or the other. Given they toss us some bonus coins every now and then for some event or celebration... I don't feel cheated. They should however fix the basic drift that does appear to exist in CC grants... simply to avoid this sort of indignation thread topic. Clearly, the next grant begins once the first grant is issued, whereas the next grant should be based on the next sub interval as it is not the players fault they issued CCs with a few days delay.

 

In the end, people need to keep in mind that Bioware can change or even eliminate the free CCs at any time. I'm suggesting they will, or should, I'm just putting the context in place here.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Andryah

[diamondscope]

It's not necessarily about the issue not being worth the time to ask for a fix. It's how you ask for that fix that makes all the difference.

 

You ask in a considerate manner for a timely fix and you ask if your CC will be refunded if you missed an entire CC distribution? That's alright.

 

You demand that Bioware fix this by tomorrow and you will consider class action lawsuit if this isn't fixed when you return from taking a shower? That's the wrong approach.

 

I think Bioware will refund the CC, if they find out that anyone has missed an entire CC grant based on this incident. Right now, the error only makes the CC grant come later, and not stops it outright. That means that everyone received his monthly CC, just three days later. Seeing this is supposed to be going on since last September-October, I think it's somewhat of 15 days delay for most people by now. That means - if I understood the issue correctly - that people still receive all necessary CC grants, but they are just later than usual the next month. The real issue (e.g missing payments) will start to crop up in ~3 months, but Bioware claims to have a fix for next week.

 

It's not the fact that people ask for a fix that makes so little sense. It's all in the how. If I ask for a fix from Bioware - no matter previous expectations/events - I do so nicely and in a polite manner. Paying 12.99€ a month for playing a game does not excuse you from decency. But when people start to throw around the term "possible lawsuit" again, and even make a thread that says "Check your bill! They might be trying to rip you off...", that's when I lose all sympathy for the case.

 

 

 

If you go and purchase a car and receive a complimentary chocolate with your purchase, will you complain to the car dealer because the chocolate is not the flavour you like? Or because it's an inferior mark to X? Or will you go back and complain that you didn't get the chocolate, but the other customer did?

 

This "but I have to purchase a subscription to receive this CC! Thus it ain't free!" is an old rumor that's floating around. It's a free addition on top of a financial service. You do not subscribe because of it, and I dare say most people enjoying the game would subscribe without it. It's so important to people that - till this day - it seems half the game hasn't even found out that there is an issue with CC distribution.

 

CC isn't free, that much is correct. But you receive this CC on top of a transaction that you purchase without the ultimate intention to make CC. You are purchasing unlimited time and a restriction free access to the game. Thus, I dare say the CC is a free bonus.

 

get off your high horse . you only pay what 14 bucks for a game .....really you pay more for thing in day to day life . sooo yeah they are late but if 500 cc is the end of the gaming or the world to you .......(psst there always a world out side of the game ) :D:D:D:D:D:D go live oit and stop crying

[Unperson]

You demand that Bioware fix this by tomorrow and you will consider class action lawsuit if this isn't fixed when you return from taking a shower? That's the wrong approach.

 

Agreed -- only this approach only exists in your mind, and it's not the first time in this thread.

 

I only brought up class actions because their raison d'être helps explain why seemingly small issues affecting large amounts of customers can actually be not so small, not because I intend to sue. I don't see how my post can be construed as a threat that way.

 

Regardless, BW doesn't need you to defend them from "wrong approaches" by disgruntled customers. They have people on payroll for that.

 

And by the way, even if I wanted to sue, I couldn't, as EA's TOS includes a class action waiver, pretty much an industry standard nowadays. Something to think about.

[Jerba]

The accumulation of 3 day delays has not occurred enough at this time to cause any issues in granting Coins.

Thanks for the clarification! That's good to hear.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Jerba

[Lendul]

Hey folks,

 

I wanted to pop in this thread and address your concerns with the 3 day delay on Cartel Coin grants. Since August of last year an issue creeped into our granting system which caused Cartel Coins to be granted every 33 days, instead of every 30 days as intended. As you pointed out, if this issue went on for a long period of time, your monthly grant could be affected and so we definitely did not want that to happen. As of right now the only effect is that your grant may be delayed.

 

With that in mind, we have a fix for this issue planned with next week’s maintenance. After next week your grants should continue forward, 30 days apart, as intended. Thank you for raising this issue so we could get it addressed.

 

-eric

Mathmatically after 10 months we will have missed out on and entire month's worth of CC. We are over half way there 6 months. That's 300 CC prorated. Edited March 28, 2016 by Lendul

[jubakumbi]

That being said, it is good that they have come forward and admitted that there is a problem and stated that there is a fix in the works. I'm not entirely reassured that they have waited until somebody found this and decided to raise a stink to do it, though.

 

You sound like the tinfoil is really tight.

[DarthDymond]

Mathmatically after 10 months we will have missed out on and entire month's worth of CC.

Good thing Aug - April is less than 10 months.

[Tsillah]

Mathmatically after 10 months we will have missed out on and entire month's worth of CC. We are over half way there 6 months. That's 300 CC.

 

Your math stinks.

 

After 6 months all that happened is that your sixth grant was 18 days late. Still less than a month, therefore you haven't lost a single CC. It's only when you reach the 10th month that you will lose a CC grant. That hasn't happened and according to Eric it's not going to as it will be fixed next week.

 

I suggest going back to elementary school to get some math classes.

[TUXs]

So if I were to buy a 30-day time card, do I get the grant during that initial 30-days or after the 30 days have expired? I always thought the grant came at the termination of your 30-day commitment...is it the start?

[DarthDymond]

So if I were to buy a 30-day time card, do I get the grant during that initial 30-days or after the 30 days have expired? I always thought the grant came at the termination of your 30-day commitment...is it the start?

Yeah, first grant should be the same day you activated it - Day 1 of the 30-Day window of sub time - this lag issue has pushed it back several days, but still within the window of the time you paid for with each purchase.

 

At least that is my understanding - someone can correct me if I am in error.

Edited March 28, 2016 by DarthDymond

[ivanhedgehog]

It's not necessarily about the issue not being worth the time to ask for a fix. It's how you ask for that fix that makes all the difference.

snip

This "but I have to purchase a subscription to receive this CC! Thus it ain't free!" is an old rumor that's floating around. It's a free addition on top of a financial service. You do not subscribe because of it, and I dare say most people enjoying the game would subscribe without it. It's so important to people that - till this day - it seems half the game hasn't even found out that there is an issue with CC distribution.

 

CC isn't free, that much is correct. But you receive this CC on top of a transaction that you purchase without the ultimate intention to make CC. You are purchasing unlimited time and a restriction free access to the game. Thus, I dare say the CC is a free bonus.

 

you have no idea why anyone but yourself subscribes. you may only subscribe to access korriban, so bugs in the rest of the game are just in the free part, no big deal. thats your choice. will that car dealership give you a cup of hot chocolate if you just walk in? no they will not. You will pay for it when you buy the car.

Am I not allowed to complain if they dont feed me for the last couple of days of an all inclusive cruise because after all, you just pay for the boat ride? that food may be a bonus to you, but it is part of the package to me. It looks like BW is going to take care of this in a satisfactory manner. I really dont care if they sat down in their secret lair and plotted this nefarious scheme out or if they made an honest mistake, they are dealing with it. It is a serious issue and BW seems to be taking it seriously, we will see what they do. The pitchforks and torches are safely locked in the barn for now.

[ZXFiveNineAFour]

If you go and purchase a car and receive a complimentary chocolate with your purchase, will you complain to the car dealer because the chocolate is not the flavour you like? Or because it's an inferior mark to X? Or will you go back and complain that you didn't get the chocolate, but the other customer did?

 

This "but I have to purchase a subscription to receive this CC! Thus it ain't free!" is an old rumor that's floating around. It's a free addition on top of a financial service. You do not subscribe because of it, and I dare say most people enjoying the game would subscribe without it. It's so important to people that - till this day - it seems half the game hasn't even found out that there is an issue with CC distribution.

 

CC isn't free, that much is correct. But you receive this CC on top of a transaction that you purchase without the ultimate intention to make CC. You are purchasing unlimited time and a restriction free access to the game. Thus, I dare say the CC is a free bonus.

 

The first half of your post I agree with!

 

The aregument about "free" add-ons, I would say, is really neither correct or incorrect. I would say both sides could argue back and forth and never reach a definite answer because there really isn't one. It is all a matter of perspective.

 

I would also say it is a matter of relative value. In your example, I doubt I would argue a $3 candy bar is not free when purchasing an item that is some multiple of 10,000 dollars. However, what if my local grocery store has a "buy one, get one free" deal on my favorite cereal. At $4 a box, i, personally, am far more likely to look at it as getting 2 boxes for $2 each than 1 for $4 and 1 for $0. It comes out the same, anyway. I'm less likely to take the perspective the store is conveying because they know "free" sounds better than "half off".

 

All that being said, the issue of the CC is slightly murkier still. In this case, it is a recurring addition to a payment that many have set up to pay automatically. Once you stop making that payment, you stop getting the add-on, whether it is free or not.

 

My opinion is that it is all a matter of perspective without a truly correct answer.

 

Of course, it is also my opinion that it is in the best interest of the company (in this case, Bioware) that it be presented as a "free" add-on. As a consumer, it comes out the same, no matter your perspective. Presenting it as"free" gives the company more benefits, though. It looks better and they have more leeway to alter any such add-on.

[Eanelinea]

You guys realize Bioware can completely eliminate the CC grant at any time they want, right? We didn't begin getting free CCs until after RotHC came out during 2.0. It's a nice little perk, but demanding extra in case you don't get it? You got 1050 for free, add that to it and there you go.

 

I honestly didn't even notice my CC being late. I get my monthly grants every month for being a sub and having a security key. And I get some refer a friend bonuses, not too much, added on. I'm waiting to see what next month's pack will be since I've gotten everything I want from this month's.

 

I'm glad Bioware is fixing the monthly grant issue, but 3 days late isn't the end of the world to me. There's more important things in my life to stress over then whether I get coins today or three days from now.

[Ksenus]

I wrote about this issue 24 days ago, in this thread:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=874526

 

Only one person responded (when I pointed "3 days shift procedure").

I thought no one cared, cos many people love this game almost unconditionally, but there should be also respect from EA/BW for us - their clients (who pays for this game ? Santa Claus ?)

 

I'm glad that this subject didn't just vanished like the fog.

 

I hope our long lost CC will be also found... If not, I won't believe that: "it was just another bug we were not aware"...

Edited March 28, 2016 by Ksenus