100% PVP Incredible Case Files Testable and Varifiable

[TUXs]

All of which goes to demonstrate that this thread has no real purpose.

Well, yeah, but most don't anyway...so...

[robertthebard]

Well, yeah, but most don't anyway...so...

 

Touche.

[psandak]

It certanly is not, but the OP took numbers that can not be tracked properly as the current "position" of any player does not necessarily represent their current or immediate interest.

I could be on Hoth, being in que for PvP all the time, just w8ing for a pop whilst using my "free" time to do my story, pursue heroics or maybe do some GSI related missions.

On the other hand, some1 might enter a warzone because his or her guild needs another 20mins so that the last members log in and they can attempt clearing SaV on HM. If you take the numbers while a 220 geared player is just passing time in a warzone...

 

Hence why these figures, altough with some meaning in terms of location accountability do not really show any data to provide serious feedback on a players primary interest ingame.

 

I do not disagree. My objective was to debunk MadCuzBad's implied assertions. Though, I reread his OP and he only implies that he has data that PvP is more relevant than some, if not many suggest.

 

two of us have in fact responded with data and he has yet to "surprise" us with his data.

[HelinCarnate]

Ok just did that. PVP stuff pub side right now is 10

PvE stuff in those zones is 20

 

Imp side 63 pvp and 37 in pve instances.

 

 

Of course this tells us nothing about how many people are engaged in other PvE things like doing heroics or lower levels leveling. On DK there are another 30 lvl 65s probably doing heroics. Another 8 on Alderaan, 22 on Hoth. Just from a quick glance at the numbers and taking into account all PvE activity, not just operations and FPs, it looks like the majority of the people do PvE the most.

Edited March 18, 2016 by HelinCarnate

[Daex]

Here are the numbers from my server:

 

 

 

Friday night

Server: TOFN

Empire

Start: 12:49

 

1. Corellia square - 0

2. Orbital station - 0

3. Mesa arena - 0

4. tatooine canyon - 2

5. hypergate - 0

6. Novare Coast - 8

7. Voidstar - 16

8. The pit (covers both huttballs) - 16

9. Civil war - 0

 

 

1. Scum and villainy - 0

2. Dread fortress - 0

3. terror from beyond - 0

4. Lost island - 0

5. Athiss - 0

6. Czerka - 0

7. Mandalorian - 1

8. Boarding - 5

9. Maelstrom - 0

10. Taral v - no information

11. Foundry - 1

12. False emperor - 0

13. Cademimu - 0

14. Hammer station - 0

15. Esseles - no information

-----

16. Korriban - 15

17. Hutta - 16

18. Dromund Kaas - 31

19. Belsavis - 6

20. Taris -- 3

21. Tatooine - 23

22. Nar -4

23. Hoth - 16

24. Alderaan- 13

25. Voss - 4

26. Coellia - 5

27. Zakuul - 2

28. CZ-198 - 0

29. Oricon -0

30. Yavin - 3

31. Rishi - ( 5 - 1 ) One was inside Battle of Rishi

32. Ziost - 4

33. Ilum - 7

34. Qush - 4

35. Imperial Fleet - 62

 

Search ended at: 1:08

 

p.s. During the time of search, numbers kept changing, so I took only numbers from my initial search. Some people logged off, warzones ended, some people changed planets etc. I was on Agent's ship admiring the beauty of its design.

 

 

 

I, myself, enjoy all aspects of the game. Currently, I do not have time, but just 2 years ago I played this game to its full potential. I PvP'ed for couple of hours, from the very first day. Remember back when people thought Valor ment something? I was there. Remember the Ilum lag? Was there! I was competing back when 8vs8 ranked warzones existed, witnessed their removal and the birth of arenas. Not only on one character. I had a chance to play with and against really good and skilled PvPers. I had a team but joined the PvE guild because PvP guilds used to change often. Blasphemy! How dare you? With my PvE guild I cleared every operation there was until I quit the game two years ago. I tried all modes: normal, hardmode and nightmare. Need help in Flashpoint? I am there! Want me to quote Dread Masters? Sure. Soa? My favorite!

 

I also enjoy the story. A lot! I am not overly crazy SW fan, so SWTOR stories made me read novels from Old Republic era. Entire game became much, much more interesting. Malgus? Marr? Man, Voidstar is much more interesting when you know who he is!

 

And I know I am not alone. There are many people who play PvE and PvP and they are good in both! No, it is not the same. I've seen many good PvErs fail badly in warzones just like I saw many good PvPers fail badly in operations. That is usually because their egos are preventing them from listening and learning, or they are afraid of what John the Pro might say.

 

People who strictly play PvE or PvP usually think they are above each other. No you're not. I played with both extremes. Honestly, you are the same. No insult. You blindly defend what you prefer by insulting the other side. They also think it is their side that matters because everybody plays it. No. There are players on both sides.

 

There are so many people I played with who never tried PvE content. They would level exclusevely trough PvP. I also played with people who never tried a single Warzone. Zero players killed. Both these extremes shock me, but it is their style - just don't claim it is everybodies. Not mine for sure!

 

I met really rude and arrogant people in warzones and arenas just like in flashpoints and operations (yep, yep, PvErs also do this). There is always one "self proclaimed best add-class ever". Usually they are the worst. They insult, they complain.

Because of those, some people will never try to PvP or PvE. What the hell?

I do not understand how can anyone let people like those separate you from one good portion of the game.

 

Honestly, I find PvP more interesting, but I would hate to see PvE and story suffering. If this game is what is claims to be, then it needs pvp, pve and story (plus all those cool things we have).

 

Am I off topic? I am, but I saw some posts here claiming things I find creepy.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Daex

[mitchsts]

after reading a few pages, im not 100% positive the people in this forum are set to destroy this game. people who think pvp doesn't matter are delusional. that's what keeps every game going after the story is played. i don't even know how many people have quit specifically because bioware wont focus on pvp. actually, my cousin asked me yesterday if they had released any maps recently so he would come back. he got tired of them ignoring pvp. like the dozens of other people i knew, they quit because they thought bioware was done with pvp.

 

people don't play mmos for the story. some people play for raids, iv just never met someone like that. i know a few people who play games casually for stories, but they don't even stick around games long enough to finish them. for someone who loves a games pvp, they will never leave. unless you stop updating the game. my brother plays battlefield, i don't remember him ever saying how awesome the campaign is. but he keeps right on playing the same thing on the same maps, they even re use maps from last games and people love it. do that with a raid here on swtor and you get people raging on the forums. (i know its a different type of game but i can apply that to almost any popular game i know of) someone who plays games for the story is probably also looking for fun, exciting combat, good graphics, fast paced game play, and stuff like that. swtor has none of that compared to single player games that focus on just those things and will never come close.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

This whole thread is flawed I'm assuming because the op has put some rather incorrect information for the search terms.

 

Normally I wouldn't bother with this but I thought meh it's a simple search once you correct the terminology.

 

This is for empire side ... I corrected the PVP instances as best I could and came to this current total just before this time of posting on harbinger:

 

89 players in those instances.

 

The numbers without naming them but in the order he listed them were:

 

1 = 8

2 = 3

3 = 1

4 = 8

5 = 7

6 = 16

7 = 23

8 = 7

9 = 16

 

Now I did some searching for operations instances and stopped after 4 as it already topped everyone doing PVP ( providing I got the above terms right , I believe I did or would have got no hits ).

 

Dread Palace = 16

Scum n Villainy ( darvannis ) = 40

Temple of Sacrifice = 16

Eternity Vault = 81

 

Total = 153 and that's before I look at the rest of the operations ( expected SNV and EV to be high being the op of the day and week ) and certainly before I even come close to looking at the flashpoints.

 

Point is the ops search terminology for PVE was quite skewed and would often yield no results if you tried it that way.

 

Now unless I've somehow greatly stuffed up the PVP search terms ( possible, I don't PVP but tried to ensure I got a hit that matched the OPs descriptions ) or the republic side has vastly greater numbers somehow playing themselves ( heh ) I believe that is /thread ?

[Newyankalt]

Nope 100% wrong, not sure where you pulled those numbers from I just tested it and the PVE content outnumbered the PVP similar to the post above.

 

 

PVP in this game is pretty lousy anyways unless you're playing ranked. Too many garbage players who don't know how to play warzone objectives

[Max_Killjoy]

after reading a few pages, im not 100% positive the people in this forum are set to destroy this game. people who think pvp doesn't matter are delusional. that's what keeps every game going after the story is played. i don't even know how many people have quit specifically because bioware wont focus on pvp. actually, my cousin asked me yesterday if they had released any maps recently so he would come back. he got tired of them ignoring pvp. like the dozens of other people i knew, they quit because they thought bioware was done with pvp.

 

people don't play mmos for the story. some people play for raids, iv just never met someone like that. i know a few people who play games casually for stories, but they don't even stick around games long enough to finish them. for someone who loves a games pvp, they will never leave. unless you stop updating the game. my brother plays battlefield, i don't remember him ever saying how awesome the campaign is. but he keeps right on playing the same thing on the same maps, they even re use maps from last games and people love it. do that with a raid here on swtor and you get people raging on the forums. (i know its a different type of game but i can apply that to almost any popular game i know of) someone who plays games for the story is probably also looking for fun, exciting combat, good graphics, fast paced game play, and stuff like that. swtor has none of that compared to single player games that focus on just those things and will never come close.

 

Your post is stuffed full of assumptions about what other people want or do, based on a very limited sample.

 

Counter-example -- nothing you said in your post is true for me. If it weren't for the story and the Star Wars, I'd never have bothered with this game and certainly wouldn't have stuck around. I've got multiple characters who've done everything other than KotFE, and yet I keep going back and doing dailies and weekly heroics and event stuff with them. The graphics are good enough in most cases. The combat isn't a wacked-out twitch-fest, and that's a positive as far as I'm concerned. I've never, even once, delved into PvP in this game, because of experiences with PvP in other games.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Max_Killjoy

[peter_plankskull]

Nope 100% wrong, not sure where you pulled those numbers from I just tested it and the PVE content outnumbered the PVP similar to the post above.

To be fair you have to admit it's a bit skewed. PVP has been ignored for two entire years, and even then they weren't loved that much.

 

They have terrible balance issues and literally no content given for two years, and PVP is completely separate from the other parts of the game, so of course people are going to be less inclined to play it and even more so leave. I realize operations haven't been here for 18 months now, but at least during the launch of KOTFE some of the ops were rescaled letting people who haven't done them on level to now get a somewhat challenging game. On top of that they already slightly raised the gear cap, causing a new need to run them, although its not the most effective and best way to increase the numbers of people doing operations, its still better than any care PVP has received.

 

If PVP was balanced between the classes and received maps actively, then you could better compare it to PVE operations to see what the player base prefers.

[DreadtechSavant]

As a PvE centric player I will admit most PvPers have mastered the ego stroking game.

 

@OP...you're trying to hard to solve a problem that doesn't exist.

 

Agree to some point. What he said is indeed Testable and Verifiable as he said. My issue is two fold with he's point/post.

 

First he only wanted players to do this for Op's and stuff and not in general over the hole game, such as on planets.

 

Second he tells players to do this search to prove he's point, then go's on to dictating the perimeters of the search by only doing this on he's chosen server.

 

As I said in my first post, none of us claimed PvP'ers were not playing or not a part of the community. I just don't think they are as big a part of the community as they claim.

 

As for this

" people who think pvp doesn't matter are delusional. that's what keeps every game going after the story is played."

 

Yet I have well over 20+ level 65's now and after just a few Op's about 2 years ago and think I did 2 WZ's a year ago, never done any since and more to the point never will. So keeping the game going? in mitchsts opinion maybe, not mine.

delusional? back at you mitchsts !

Edited March 19, 2016 by DreadtechSavant

[robertthebard]

after reading a few pages, im not 100% positive the people in this forum are set to destroy this game. people who think pvp doesn't matter are delusional. that's what keeps every game going after the story is played. i don't even know how many people have quit specifically because bioware wont focus on pvp. actually, my cousin asked me yesterday if they had released any maps recently so he would come back. he got tired of them ignoring pvp. like the dozens of other people i knew, they quit because they thought bioware was done with pvp.

 

people don't play mmos for the story. some people play for raids, iv just never met someone like that. i know a few people who play games casually for stories, but they don't even stick around games long enough to finish them. for someone who loves a games pvp, they will never leave. unless you stop updating the game. my brother plays battlefield, i don't remember him ever saying how awesome the campaign is. but he keeps right on playing the same thing on the same maps, they even re use maps from last games and people love it. do that with a raid here on swtor and you get people raging on the forums. (i know its a different type of game but i can apply that to almost any popular game i know of) someone who plays games for the story is probably also looking for fun, exciting combat, good graphics, fast paced game play, and stuff like that. swtor has none of that compared to single player games that focus on just those things and will never come close.

 

Check it out, one of those "PvP is the only thing that keeps the lights on" posts. The flaw with your logic is that if PvP were the driving force of this game, it would have been shut down two years ago. They quit focusing on it because there weren't enough people playing it to justify the expense. I've outlined countless times why the dedicated PvP players I know didn't stick around, and frankly, balance wasn't an issue, F2P restrictions didn't come up once in the dialog either. PvP doesn't mean anything to anyone that isn't playing it every day. There are no instances that you can't play if the other faction wins, there is no point to "Guild Y controls this sector" other than a graphic that sometimes won't go away. To be fair here, that also applies in SHs at times too.

 

I'd like to thank you for pointing out why I play. You are, of course, completely off base, but hey, you sincerely believe that PvP is the only reason the lights are on, so I'd expect nothing less. Here's a shocker for you: I'm not here for PvP. In fact, I've never played a single WZ. This part will really mess up your theory: I'm not even here because it's Star Wars. I'm here because, since the 1990s, I've been playing BioWare games and loving them. Some more than others, to be sure, but overall, that's why I'm here. I got bored with everything else I was doing, there was an attractive offer on Amazon, so I got it, installed the game, and have been around, for the most part, ever since.

 

The problem here can be summed up in two words: Overinflated ego. This isn't CoD, or any of the myriad of FPS MP games. This is a story driven MMO. There are a lot of people here, according to the OP's own search criteria, which was meant to skew the numbers towards PvP, that either aren't, or don't go into WZs. I know I don't. There have been a few others that state the same thing in this very thread. However, I don't do WZs not because I don't like PvP, but because, to me, 1 2 3 go is a duel, not PvP. WZs are essentially FPs with both factions, since to win, you have to complete PvE objectives. Nothing like hitting a queue for PvP only to hear "May the best PvE'ers win, eh?

 

Then there's those awesome rewards: Hey, that rancor from season one was pretty big, what function does it serve in a WZ? Maybe it's the comps, that you can't use in a WZ? There is no relevance to the main game, no matter who wins or loses. Imagine if you couldn't play Oricon, or even just the associated Ops if the other faction had won a WZ. A very real scenario in Aion, which encourages, to a point, people to participate in the PvP aspects of the game. Faction balance threw that off a lot, but capturing fortresses in the abyss or zones in the end game maps meant something. Here it's "Derp, I got to teabag that noob", and that's about it. So spare me the next mantra that I know is coming: You just hate PvP. Because, quite frankly, you have no idea why I don't play, because "derp, I got to teabag that noob" means a lot to you. It means nothing to me, even when I'm the one doing the teabagging.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

To be fair you have to admit it's a bit skewed. PVP has been ignored for two entire years, and even then they weren't loved that much.

 

They have terrible balance issues and literally no content given for two years, and PVP is completely separate from the other parts of the game, so of course people are going to be less inclined to play it and even more so leave. I realize operations haven't been here for 18 months now, but at least during the launch of KOTFE some of the ops were rescaled letting people who haven't done them on level to now get a somewhat challenging game. On top of that they already slightly raised the gear cap, causing a new need to run them, although its not the most effective and best way to increase the numbers of people doing operations, its still better than any care PVP has received.

 

If PVP was balanced between the classes and received maps actively, then you could better compare it to PVE operations to see what the player base prefers.

 

If I didn't have to have different gear I would PVP ... people keep saying "but its so easy to get" ... I dont care, I jut want to join and fight on an equal stat level with everyone I'm against. This isn't the case thus I don't PVP.

 

That's just me though.

[MWidowmaker]

To be fair, he got treated like crap by the usual group in another thread...I hardly blame him for not giving a damn.

 

well, neither do non pvpers about pvp....

[DawnAskham]

So what is the point in showing that more players are in instanced warzones than instanced operations?

 

Warzones can be queued from anywhere, provide rewards to all participants regardless of the outcome, and have no weekly limitations.

 

Operations typically require a group formed through a guild or Fleet chat, only provide rewards if the group is successful and mostly only to those that win rolls, and have a weekly 'once per character per instance' limitation.

 

Maybe the point is players will 'choose' activities which are easier to join, provide participation trophies to everyone, and have no repeating limitations.

Edited March 19, 2016 by DawnAskham

[robertthebard]

So what is the point in showing that more players are in instanced warzones than instanced operations?

 

Warzones can be queued from anywhere, provide rewards to all participants regardless of the outcome, and have no weekly limitations.

 

Operations typically require a group formed through a guild or Fleet chat, only provide rewards if the group is successful and mostly only to those that win rolls, and have a weekly 'once per character per instance' limitation.

 

Maybe the point is players will 'choose' activities which are easier to join, provide participation trophies to everyone, and have no repeating limitations.

 

The point was to ignore these details. Once ops are run, and the lockouts kick in, it will make his numbers mean something. If we had the full metrics for the entire week, this thread wouldn't exist, and he'd be kicking it in his "I've been calling this game's death for 4 years, sooner or later I'll be right" thread.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

The point was to ignore these details. Once ops are run, and the lockouts kick in, it will make his numbers mean something. If we had the full metrics for the entire week, this thread wouldn't exist, and he'd be kicking it in his "I've been calling this game's death for 4 years, sooner or later I'll be right" thread.

 

The point is he was wrong to begin with because he wasn't even searching for relevant terms to judge the operations activity levels.

[mitchsts]

Check it out,...

LOL did you even read my post? im not sure what you are rambling on about half the time but i know i never said pvp is what keeps the game going.

[Perihelion]

I don't pay a lot of attention to all this stuff, but what I do know and what anyone who follows the game knows is they are adding pvp content. That's a fact. If pvp was so unimportant they wouldn't have bothered with the new warzones, especially now since there isn't much new content.

 

I probably wouldn't just outright dismiss pvp.

 

Ps, to all the naysayers who say server population isn't declining, it is.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Easy scripted PvE content that doesn't change or make you think or adjust to gameplay with better rewards and loot

 

Vs

 

Challenging PvP content with stale maps, lots of cc and knock backs, everything changes depending on the situation. War Zone Tourists just there for a few matches for PvE companions. PvE geared with no idea about their roll, rotations, how to guard, deal with resolve, don't know how to not break CC early. A higher skill set is required to be successful in a PvP environment.

 

If you mean "playing against the computer" and "playing against human opponents - only recently a PC has been able to beat one of the best Go players ...

 

What I mean with that is that your point gets quirked quite a bit if you try to see it from the other perspective ...

Humans ? Not much of a challenge for computers ... ( If well programmed, that is ... )

Edited March 20, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[robertthebard]

LOL did you even read my post? im not sure what you are rambling on about half the time but i know i never said pvp is what keeps the game going.

 

Yep, the second sentence in your post doesn't exist. Or maybe you don't understand what that statement means? What else is "keeps a game going after the story" supposed to mean? I get it, I do, some people like PvP here. Hey, more power to you. None of the hardcore PvPers that I know, and have PvP'd with over the last 10 years or so found anything worthwhile here. I laid out some stuff that would have made it at least interesting in the OP's other thread, perhaps you should take a look, because despite the "you just hate PvP" attitude, I hate meaningless PvP, and so did my friends, and thus they didn't stick around. I guess, if you're looking for organized duels, or PvP FPs, you can find what you're looking for here. I'm looking for something that means something to the game as a whole.

 

I want to gain a percentage of currency drops when my guild controls a sector, just as I did in Rappelz, when my guild owned a dungeon, that we PvP'd to get. I want special instances, even if they're PvE when my faction controls a sector, just like I got in Aion. The only thing PvP is good for here is teabagging, and epeen. My peen is big enough, I don't need an artificial one, and people have been teabagging in CoD for years, so really, there's nothing appealing about PvP here, for me, or any of the people that I know, that I didn't meet here, anyway.

[Vashadan]

Think most ppl by now agree on how pointless the whole claim in this thread was, and even show-tell something.

 

I wrote how much I believe the PvP aspect in this game has potential, but Bioware keeps neglecting it.

For me that is reason enough why PvP is and will remain less played than the PvE aspect, especially in its current form of being restricted to individual servers.

Since PvP has little influence on anything but conquest and extra rewards, most of which have no impact on PvP itself it remains just another minigame, much like GSF.

That should be enough for most ppl to figure out in which direction the PvP population has been going for 2016 only, nevermind the previous years but if some1 wishes to make the claim balance was best...knock yourself out, I do miss having the option of playing 8vs8 ranked.

Each and every aspect in this game matters to some individual who enjoys playing it, for whatever reasons. That almost everything is being ignored in favor of what I too believe Bioware does right, and has proven in the past to do well should be acknowleged but also show why PvPers are so vocal that Bioware ought to do something "besides" story telling.

I can see or at least expect a new operation to be released once they are done with chapters but "raiders" are pretty much in the same spot as every1 else, especially ppl who like GSF which has not had any love for...Teemo knows how long.

 

I am not against story telling, I do enjoy it but since this game is an MMO I do come along to get the recent story release done and then move on to something else. This something else is playing with others, not "NPC" characters run by a predefined script. I played and finished DA:I, and will not bother playing it again. It was fun but the hours to go through it again to see a few other cutscene choices is just not worth it.

 

In this MMO the thing that keeps me playing it is the PvP aspect, which I very much enjoy even with all its flaws.

If it stays in the same state it has been for the past few months the only conclusion I will draw is that PvP will become even less relevant when some1 wishes to show the number of players participating in it.

 

Will it make the game die? I strongly doubt it.

I too fell the CM keeps making most of the money for Bioware and it will go on and on, plus any sub who does not mind the fee and does not want the crappy F2P/preffered access.

 

For me, unless you have "content" you enjoy over others, that is so designed to provide more fun than frustration, gets the needed attention which should be noticed by those creating and shaping it by taking feedback from those who actually play it...that is the key to keeping ppl happy and around.

Back to the start, if there is any "show and tell" it is the population spikes because Bioware offers a new chapter each month.

That should tell most ppl why we are on the forums on a daily basis, complaining about something in this game which we seem to enjoy as much as the time spent criticizing it....

[ivanhedgehog]

If I didn't have to have different gear I would PVP ... people keep saying "but its so easy to get" ... I dont care, I jut want to join and fight on an equal stat level with everyone I'm against. This isn't the case thus I don't PVP.

 

That's just me though.

 

DING DING WINNER^^^^

 

what he said. Menace hit it on the head.

 

look at the powers that have been butchered to satisfy pvp balance. we dont need more of that.

Edited March 20, 2016 by ivanhedgehog

[rklontz]

DING DING WINNER^^^^

 

what he said. Menace hit it on the head.

 

look at the powers that have been butchered to satisfy pvp balance. we dont need more of that.

 

They used to give you starting pvp gear when you hit max level but with bolster I guess they got rid of it.

PvP gear is incredibly easy to get. There is no reason what so ever to use no gear as an excuse.

[Max_Killjoy]

By itself, no, not if it's as easy as you say to get it.

 

But needing an entirely different set of gear for one particular sort of content, as part of an entire matched set of reasons you never do that content, certainly counts.