Is PvP only warzones for you people..?

[Sappharan]

...er, that was supposed to be cynicism, not endorsement.

 

OPvP had its day in the early days of MMO gaming, but its ultimately a failed concept. The only thing game developers have found out with numerous OPvP experiments is that it is detrimental to the gameplay on a large scale, due to the fact that it is inherently impossible to balance it in any meaning of the word.

 

Hence, people are forced to fend for themselves in any way they can.

 

Personally, I don't mind because I've been 'baptized with fire' since my initial MMO experience was with Ultima Online back in '96 or '98, before they did that Felucca/Trammel split. Friggin' "murderors" everywhere in that game. But back then, I was in my 20's, and fiery and temperamental with PvP fights. I was ready to defend myself on demand, and as much kill people on demand whenever I saw them.

 

But in those days, I've never given thought about how others might feel. Many people would not mind maybe a fight or two, or a death every now and then, but PvPers know no limits. You can't enforce any kind of morality in OPvP, and there is no way to restrict people from just plain wrecking the everyday experience of other people who are timid and not so battle-hardened.

 

Why do so many people populate PvE servers, and why are the numbers in PvP servers dwindling? Isn't it obvious that people don't enjoy being targeted and 'hunted down' so frequently? The age of OPvP is over. Things have moved on to consensual PvP where people fight under equal circumstances, or not at all.

 

 

If there's one thing PvPers suck at, its seeing things beyond their own egos and cocky demeanor. Many people don't realize just how much abuse there exists in those "clever tactics to always win". That's why they don't realize why OPvP doesn't work, and that's why they do foolish and stupid shi* like premades in casual queues, that does nothing but drive more and more newbies and casuals away from the game.

 

Completely agree.

 

In gree, I do not attack other players unless they attack me or mine first. The only combat I had in owpvp recently (gree event) was our group versus--can you guess?

 

operative

assassin

sorcerer

 

surprise, surprise

 

We won due to overwhelming numbers--no one else dared because of the reasons you listed above.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Sappharan

[Sappharan]

then you are a minority. the vast majority of OWPVPers I've come across are stealth classes which enjoy an inherent advantage in 1v1. and on top of that, it's often a pair of them.

 

there is very little honor or morality in an impersonal MMORPG. you may have your code, but I assure you, it's not a norm by any means, and it's certainly not the same code as the 5 people in the area.

 

have at it. sure. w/e. don't pretend for a second, though, that OW is ever anything close to a "fair fight."

 

I'm game for the massive fights ala alterac valley or wintergrasp or whatnot. those are usually heavily tilted at the start as well but they're large scale enough for it to still be fun. that's not possible in this game. so OW is either impossible or cheap gank kills. or pretending that continually ganking the same loner will cause him to grab this mythical 30 friends to come fight and start a world event. that happens with like maybe 2 guilds on a server. iunno. you like it w/e just stop with the high minded ethics bs.

 

I read your posts, and I agree with many of them (in this and other forums).

 

What you detailed at the beginning is absolutely right from my experience. The group that attacked mine assumed our group to be mostly or all PvE geared. They were mostly right. But, we had numbers, healers, coordination and two of us were PvP geared, all of which made the difference. Still, they came close to killing our PvE geared tank.

 

Go in with the advantage or expect to be a statistic.

[Boccanon]

You are killing a member of the opposite hated faction, not someone's character in a sense.

 

World PvP in this game is a completely different deal but can still be interesting. In general the threat of being killed by the opposite faction + scanning your surroundings for red names gives another layer of fun. Don't take it personally when you are killed.

 

''Bullies'' mostly attack those who are weaker. Those who do world pvp attack the weak and

the strong, as i said above there is no discrimination + they do all kinds of PvP, not only in the open world. Most of the time they do world PvP while being in queue.

 

Seriously though, if self-righteousness was fuel, you could power the planet.

 

/Sooo signed!

[DarthOvertone]

[foxmob]

 

DAMMIT! I thought you were gonna link Bad Santa.

[kweassa]

Why don't you cut the pathetic disapproving grandma rhetoric and pay attention. In case you haven't noticed i was speaking about WoW. That was around 10 years ago, was still in high school. Also during not a small chunk of time World PvP was the only PvP there was. There were no bgs(wzs) yet in the game. And later there were even special world pvp spots, so the developers encouraged it. So yes that was one of(as in not the only one) the best gaming times i have had.

 

World PvP without true and proper faction animosity is pointless. Geek like animosity between the actual players, not just in the game world. You are killing a member of the opposite hated faction, not someone's character in a sense. Don't take it personally when you are killed.

 

World PvP in this game is a completely different deal but can still be interesting. In general the threat of being killed by the opposite faction + scanning your surroundings for red names gives another layer of fun.

 

''Bullies'' mostly attack those who are weaker. Those who do world pvp attack the weak and

the strong, as i said above there is no discrimination + they do all kinds of PvP, not only in the open world. Most of the time they do world PvP while being in queue.

 

Seriously though, if self-righteousness was fuel, you could power the planet. I would call you other unflattering things too but i am sure you are the type of person that would report it right away so i will keep quiet.

 

Doesn't really matter.

 

The simple fact of the matter is that everything you saw good about OPvP was 10 years ago. People hated it back then, people hate it now. The end result is simply all around us -- OPvP is DEAD. It's gone. It ain't coming back.

 

Clearly, the majority of people do not share your, "our" ideals, and its about high time those who profess to being "PvPers" understand that as a fact. That is the whole point of the matter with this OPvP thing, and is also the matter of the whole premade hatred in the community.

 

Us PvPers, don't appreciate just how much we rely on casual gamers and casual PvP players. We think that our mutual understanding of the no-holds-barred approach to PvP is the only thing that matters, and we often think that we can dictate this simple and brutal rule to everyone. For the last 20years, our response to people who have been suffering and complaining about such actions were, "Tough. If you don't like it, don't PvP" --- and that is EXACTLY what they did. Now OPvP is dead.

 

So were we doing the right thing when we giggled and laughed and shat upon people as they've complained about being killed 10 times in a row in a same quest zone? Did dismissing their complaints and defending our actions do anything to better PvP? All it did was remove a part of the game from the public. Nobody in the gaming business nowadays takes OPvP into consideration because it's been dead for so long, that you can smell the rotting 7 blocks away.

 

 

 

There is one thing PvPers have to understand, is no matter what kind of warring gimmicks or "animosity" bullshi* you drag into the game, in the end, this is a game. You need someone on the other side to play a game. People play games for fun, and with so many different definitions of "fun", there has to be a lowest common denominator set somewhere. And clearly, that common denominator isn't set by us PvPers or our preferences. The standard is set according to how the majority of the players -- the casuals, the lowbies, the L2P-deprived want it, because they don't have any problems if PvP goes dead.

 

We do.

[foxmob]

Us PvPers, don't appreciate just how much we rely on casual gamers and casual PvP players. We think that our mutual understanding of the no-holds-barred approach to PvP is the only thing that matters, and we often think that we can dictate this simple and brutal rule to everyone. For the last 20years, our response to people who have been suffering and complaining about such actions were, "Tough. If you don't like it, don't PvP" --- and that is EXACTLY what they did. Now OPvP is dead.

.

to be fair, casuals would still have played on Ilum. not so much outlaw's den. that was always a fail. but ilum failed only insofar as the game engine failed. there were other exploitive things going on in ilum too, but casual players were willing to do the big army engagements. but then everyone's frames dropped to .2/fps, and that was that. and it was only like 20v20. lmao.

[Thaladan]

yes fps problem..but now, seeing how the game is, i missed old illum open PvP so far !

[knowmyname]

Every so often I'll flag and knock out some PvE heroics or missions. Pays off every now and then when someone else decides to attack me in open world.

[Kaedusz]

The end result is simply all around us -- OPvP is DEAD. It's gone. It ain't coming back.

 

It still survives on a certain level. At least it did before KoTFE.

 

Before 4.0(for 2 years) my guild(+ other PvP associates) used to do world pvp events. We would go to a place, usually Tatooine or Alderaan and mess the place up. Kill everyone on sight repeatedly. And then People would relog with their 60 ,pvp geared chars or spam their fleet chat about the ganking and a huge army would appear. Epic slug fest happens. After that we would do a dueling event between the members of our faction(imp) and call it a day.

 

My server after the first few weeks of 4.0, for some reason became a constant Light+my guild died or is on life support so i moved to a PvE server. Still suffer from culture shock when i see a rep and can't attack him.

I miss pre 4.0.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Kaedusz

[kweassa]

It still survives on a certain level. At least it did before KoTFE.

 

Before 4.0(for 2 years) my guild(+ other PvP associates) used to do world pvp events. We would go to a place, usually Tatooine or Alderaan and mess the place up. Kill everyone on sight repeatedly. And then People would relog with their 60 ,pvp geared chars or spam their fleet chat about the ganking and a huge army would appear. Epic slug fest happens. After that we would do a dueling event between the members of our faction(imp) and call it a day.

 

My server after the first few weeks of 4.0, for some reason became a constant Light+my guild died or is on life support so i moved to a PvE server. Still suffer from culture shock when i see a rep and can't attack him.

I miss pre 4.0.

 

Let's face it. We actually have to nurture and care for newbies and lowbies and casuals, until they take genuine interest in PvP and perhaps, one day go all the way hard core. Not everyone understands that all that "animosity" and "kill on sight" krap is actually another way to enjoy extreme roleplaying of sort, and get into the mood of things.

 

How sometimes you can get killed, your face all red and sweating, teeth gritting with anger, you hunt down the guy that killed you, until you discover him, and get revenge... and then that feeling of accomplishment, how all of this can be actually fun.

 

You mentioned 10 years ago, which would imply you know how it was back then. Back when people like us started mmogs and PvP, it was still the early days. There weren't any rules, nor were there any common courtesy. There wasn't any concept of guidelines or rules of conduct back then. Everyone learned things the hard way, and it was literally you get used to being ambushed all the time, or not play the game at all.

 

Things are different now. The people, the gamers are different now. Times have changed. It's just not how things work anymore.

[Kaedusz]

Let's face it. We actually have to nurture and care for newbies and lowbies and casuals, until they take genuine interest in PvP and perhaps, one day go all the way hard core. Not everyone understands that all that "animosity" and "kill on sight" krap is actually another way to enjoy extreme roleplaying of sort, and get into the mood of things.

 

How sometimes you can get killed, your face all red and sweating, teeth gritting with anger, you hunt down the guy that killed you, until you discover him, and get revenge... and then that feeling of accomplishment, how all of this can be actually fun.

 

You mentioned 10 years ago, which would imply you know how it was back then. Back when people like us started mmogs and PvP, it was still the early days. There weren't any rules, nor were there any common courtesy. There wasn't any concept of guidelines or rules of conduct back then. Everyone learned things the hard way, and it was literally you get used to being ambushed all the time, or not play the game at all.

 

Things are different now. The people, the gamers are different now. Times have changed. It's just not how things work anymore.

 

Truer words have never been spoken.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Yorioko]

Let's face it. We actually have to nurture and care for newbies and lowbies and casuals, until they take genuine interest in PvP and perhaps, one day go all the way hard core. Not everyone understands that all that "animosity" and "kill on sight" krap is actually another way to enjoy extreme roleplaying of sort, and get into the mood of things.

 

How sometimes you can get killed, your face all red and sweating, teeth gritting with anger, you hunt down the guy that killed you, until you discover him, and get revenge... and then that feeling of accomplishment, how all of this can be actually fun.

 

You mentioned 10 years ago, which would imply you know how it was back then. Back when people like us started mmogs and PvP, it was still the early days. There weren't any rules, nor were there any common courtesy. There wasn't any concept of guidelines or rules of conduct back then. Everyone learned things the hard way, and it was literally you get used to being ambushed all the time, or not play the game at all.

 

Things are different now. The people, the gamers are different now. Times have changed. It's just not how things work anymore.

 

Firstly this group that enjoys being kill farmed while trying to do missions is extremely small, maybe you and your friends, if that.

 

OWPVP is A**Hole's heaven, is THE way to chase players away.

 

 

You stat......basically pester, plague, genk and mess ON PURPOSE, and for that purpose only....for other players was fine.........and then "demand" them to go hard core and get even.

 

Sorry, after 122299949499999444 times being kill farmed most have gone

 

To answer ALL questions about OWPVP in SWTOR look to the OWPVP servers and count people.

I have spend weeks alone on the server for my region, this is the case for all the pvp servers.

 

There is your answer.

 

Besides we have OWPVP anywhere and everywhere, is just not free for you kind to go kill the game for others, so to keep money comming, BW is not doing anything open pvp, and what is they kept, and all we need do is toggle a flag button.

 

Becuse 9/10 pvpers in an open pvp becomes "genkers" and is not mature enough to prevent that.....owpvp is dead.

 

PS! Referances to OWPVP MMOS is silly, most are exrememly and even in beta, NO OWPVP mmo HAVE EVER lived linger then 2 yrs without going pve, even only pve

[khaos-theory]

The days of epically RPvPing a Tusken Raider on Tatooine, farming endless groups of brave and zealous RP heroes, in the Outlaw's Den and beyond... are seemingly, and sadly, mostly over.

[Samcuu]

I totally agree with the guy saying world pvp died 10 years ago. And you know what killed it?? World Of Warcraft. WOW was so wildly successful that all mmo's started to copy it's "theme park" style. World pvp was awesome and amazing when there was actually a world to explore in a true "sand box" style mmo. Star Wars Galaxies the perfect example. The planets were so large that it would be a massive waste of time to try to search all over the planet to find people questing in order to gank them. Even if you did find someone there were things called "temporary enemy flags" that were only activated if you were attacking npc's which were opposite faction (by the way there were a lot of bad *** reasons to attack npc's of the opposite faction, so it made world pvp actually mean something). There weren't small little questing areas where all the characters hang out in this game on the weak instanced planets which are tiny. The world map was so expansive you could drive in any direction and it would take you 40 minutes to reach the end of the area.

 

tldr version is that world pvp is a lot of fun and amazing when used properly, like in a sand box mmo. It's no good for wow clones that are instanced games "theme parks".

[Kaedusz]

snip

 

Can't agree there. Vanilla, TBC and Wrath(up to a point) world pvp is the best i have ever had.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Yorioko]

Too bad in some ways that the game mechanics don't support any large scale open pvp here in swtor, but it don't mean there isn't any.

 

This is one of those "players no decide this them selvs, the when and how " situations that we keep missing out on.

Use cht, set up gropus ( upto 16vs 16) meet in the contested planets, have fun.

 

OWPVP as a concept of THAT IS ONLY option when you logg on to a game like swtor is not making sense, at all.

Nothing in this game says that you as a player should be unable to finish your missions without being genked by a pvp looser too afreaid of his own failure as pvp that he waits by strategic places to genk, only to hinder to game progress.........or ( to "steal" or lessen revenue from BW, that should instntly permaban ALL genekers with every report, it makes pvp fun when genkers are gone)

 

What I do what to see is ALL FPS, and maybe OPS, all ahving pvp modes, to mix in the added " ambush by other faction", and becuse it is controlled areas, allow the genking it would require.

 

OWPVP is nothing for adults, as it ONLY cater to the most childish of childish players

[Yorioko]

want to address something in regards to PVP here on SWTOR.

This is not a thread about behaviour or class builds or balance, nor is a pro or con to pvp thread.

 

I have been thinking about this ever since I left the pvp server I rolled on first, and later left.

 

PVP on swtor is flawed, it really doesn't work the many of us want it to, and various efforts to find that golden middle-way by BW has usually failed utterly.

 

But in order to get to the point lets start with me rolling on the pvp server.

 

I rolled on the pvp server, after all it is a galactic war, it is a dangerous galaxy and it is FUN wtth that extra level added by a sudden ambush by imperials.

HOWEVER.....only a very very small percetage of the player base was mature enough to not to abuse this open pvp , and they did abuse it, abuse it to the extent that even eager pvpers fled the now ghost town pvp servers.

WHY?

 

Genking, strangely enough, the very thing that would make owpvp interesting is also what kills it, this is all about the players level of maturity.

 

What happened and what drove players away from the pvpv servers was that on those severs like on every other server in this game, the wast majority of population were players that did BOTH, and the exclusive pvpers were a minority, the genkers even less of minority.

 

But over the course of weeks, guilds took it upon them selves to expolit rules in the game, by genking players that would never ( due to genk camping) be able to progress in the game, nor could they complain to CS, after all this was about hiding like cowards behind the rules.

 

THIS is what killed the populations there.....the few genkers preventing others from progressint through the game to the extent they actually preveted BW form having a good income, people actually didn't want to ply swtor...and when asked why........everyone allways said, becuse of the pvp favors ONLY genkers, and they are rule protected.

 

 

Naturally all of the above sounds alot like exaggerations and blame casting, and I too though that until I began analyzing things.

 

Things have gradually changed, and I willadress issues here that now is fixed and or have a easy work around, but I am stating the problems as they were, and how they to some extent are.

 

Flag Button, and how it "protected" genkers.

 

Back then the pvp flag button worked ( as it does now I think) in the following way: you could at any time freely toggle it ON, but once selected to togle it OFF, this was impossible unleass you A) Quicktraveled to a safe zone and waited 5 minutes, THEN you were unflagged.

Naturally when you see the game as a whole, this was in place ONLY to protect enkers and chase non genkers away from the game.

 

Naturally a collective PVP community protected this cooldown system fanatically as it helped ballance pvp.........which it didn't i any way.

A free on/off toggle was frawned upon as it could somehow be exploited in pvp............but considering 90% players that are not only pvpers, was not possible nor among the players on both sides suffering from this silly thing, nor from BW who loved seeing genkers chase away their potential players and subs.

 

What was the big issue, well it was that the cooldown on the flagg button could be "exploited" by genkers especially when "timed" with cooldowns of other skills.....like the back then 1 hour cooldown on Quick travel, I think 20 mins was for subs, not at a worth vile differnace when you meet the 1% commuinty who OWNS 99% of rules, the genkers.

 

Now there was a lot of debate raging here on the forums about the QT button, and for the life of me I could not understand how a 5 minute DEFALGG would prevent pvp exploiting more then or even any dfferent then a 5 minute REFALGG would.

 

Meaning basically do a 180 with the cooldown.

 

Making you at any time freely toggel on...and OFF, 1 time, but to toggle back on you now have the same 5 minute cllodown as the one chasing away players in the game,.

 

This last change would have been the one best for all, it would basically do the exact same to prevent exploits in pvp BUT at the same time allow the non pvpers to play the game and progress on their terms, not on trems set by a genker.

 

The failure to get rid of the genkers from the PVP community, made in the end the pvp servers into ghost towns, and the pvpvers not wanting to play MMOS on dead servers came to pve servers.

 

Again they came in to the game wanting THEIR thing, a thing that would have worked great on the pvpv servers if the pvp community had wanted tp play the game, rather then pester the non pvpvers and such.

Why that snyde and imflamotory negative statement.

 

Well becuse the pvpv community as a whole now on a sever they have migrated to, due to what their own community did to the pvp servers, begins to the same thing there.

 

Dictate a one sided play style, opt for in game content catering to the 1 side.

yet it was that 1 side focus that killed pvpv servers and open pvp.

 

The single and possibly stupidest pvpv aspect about this game is nothing any player group can be blamed for, killing servers they can and should accpet, PVPers killed SWTOR OWPVP, is just fact.

BUT BW made something utterly stupid and tbh in 2010+ something that was even "out dated by principal" in 92.

The added Expertise stat.

 

Firstly it is actually NOT at all needed, nor for PVP.

 

It is needed now you might argue, but it is actually NOT.

 

it is NOT needed for the following reasons.

 

players facing players in pvp where both sides is pvp geared and both sides are in OPVP then both sides deal and take damage.

 

So Expertise is atifically "needed" , lets just chuck it out the window, I am sure without that balsed silly and not needed addition to pvp, class ballance, and complains, gear issues and the pvpv vs pve gap would be alot less.

 

Naturally PVPers don't want this, beuse doinf so will undermine the fact this group have chose to be blind to.

A pvpv feature in a game is NOT THE WHOLE game, yet is trated like it.

 

W don't have a system or a game engine that supports true OPVP, BUT I am sure ost will agree that it is needed to some extent.

 

BUT, we need to have the option to at any time and I would dare say any circumstance in opvp be able to freely toggle in and out of combat, even IN comabt. This to "protect" the non pvper from the genker.

 

NO it wil not be abused too much, when it becusmes abused people will quickly know and shun the player....shunning geners and player that abuse the rules is a good thing, sosoally isolate them on MMOS to the point where they do the rest a favor and leave due to hving 0 socoal interaction and close to 0 in game interaction.

So that is the solution on NOT exploiting a free on/off toggle.

 

now with the removal of the QT cooldwon this was rednered ALOT better.

 

Now it fun to run into the Den, pick a fight and QT in the middle of it just to finally be able to PAY back.......and I tell you do that 3 times and surprise surprise you can finally be left alone in the den to go buy the HK part, not worrying about the ever protected victims of unfainess the PVP community so vividly protects, the victims of all the hatred called GENKERS...........this way they die.

¨

 

I say that what we need an understanding and a give and take attitude that allows us as players to run small scale OWPVP events frequently.

Accept wht the game has, make the best out of it, let some contested areas be littered with pvp groups fighting, but NOT AT THE EXPENCE of others.

 

The reality we have here in Swtro is that some tings can only be done at the expencse of others, while most APPEAR that wy due to a quite noticable polarization between pvp and pve, when both sides in reality want less.

 

It is actually wrongto be blind to changes that one faction want to better "their" area of play, most often it affects the other areas as well.

Like the NEED ( whic is a real need) to hve clases constantly changed whenever a pvp match is lost, as that naturally unabllances thinngs.

 

Changing output also affects pve, changing cooldowns, dmamage delt, healing recieves or arc or what ever impacts both sides.

adn it is not allways that what works best in one setting works equally well in other settings.

 

On that note NO the classes are NOT that unballances, is in 99.9% a tactics issue.

 

I have seen skills change radically InFact they have changed from 1 slill into a completely other one..........and impact came in pve, not at all in pvp, but was a pvp change.

 

Many unfrotunately pve changes are content related, more then what we can call class fixes.

 

 

I personally think the only way to have good pvp here, be it isn the instances we do now or OWpvp, that we need as a collective SWTOR player base first

 

Kill any and all GENKING, instanly.

FAVOR the pve side in open pvp whith how things like the flag button etc is done.

Have a PVP skill tree to all classes, and connect expertise ONLY to this skill tree.

This being enforced by game mechanics so as when you queue up OR toggle your flag, your skills automatially turn to pvp from pve, and trigger the use of expertise.

 

Altenative is to remove expetise completely, again it is not really needed, but keep a skill tree for pvp

 

Any thoughts?

 

I think there should be a cross faction terminal, where you can flagg your self for OWPVP, within ONLY the various contested planetary areas.

This way you can get upto 16 vs 16 OWPVP events ran by players, on the players terms and it requires no change in things as they are.in this case what I mean by cross faction is that both sides can take a pvp misson called the same, only with mirrored objectives.

 

it could be that you can do say the attack on Korriban as a mix of pvpv and pve, once you have 4 vs 4 etc it can pit a match.

Becuse it will mix in the npc mobs, and that pve mobs will be able to attck the enemy factions also makes any puging vs premade gone, if a team is uotnumbered they can still ( defenders can) play, pvp and still even win.

 

All is about player creativity and willingness to work with what we have.

 

Crying about changes so speficific it favors 10 out 100000 plauers is just a waste.

 

lets agree, premades are groups that simply decided in advance lets cooperate for a better result.

Same is is with most if not all aspects of pvp.

 

I more or less hate pvp due to mostly genkers and the pvp community's fanatic defense of them ( genkers)

 

Yet I enjoy pvp, I prefer owpvp over the arenas and wzs we have.

 

I can give an example from when pvp was in it is infancy, MMOs hardly exixted, but many game had servers run by fans that often offered pvp, or a mix.

 

I rememeber one time it came to a conflict on pvp rules.

The game had a skill that allowed you even pvpv to disarm, extremely effective as this allowed more then 1 class to really have a chance.

However becuse someone COULD in pvp disarm ( in which case the one disarmed lost his weapon, to the other person,) and thius get the oponents weapon in his own inventory and logg out.

 

Becuse here weapons was hard to get, especially the top tier ones, they made this rule.

 

However due to limited mechanics, this aloso ment you could not use this skill in pve...........beuse the skill was "banned" on that server.

 

Now add 15 years of development, and come to swtor

 

We have a pvpv community doing exactly that.....making a demand on a skill that impact others in a negative way......more often then it impact positve.

 

So to get OWPVP here, we first need to make sure Genkers die, and if they GENK, make sure they are chased out of the game, never to return.

And all have a 0 tolerance on genking.

 

In fanct I am so extreme that IF and WHEN I have business in the den I ignore the auto flagging, being AUTO it actually doesn' say I AS A PLAYER WANT TO PVP RIGHT now, it only indicates I am in a pvp area.

This means unless I as a player want to pvpv, regardless of a design flaw in the game that others choose to exploit, this means that nay and all attacks against me unless I as a player there and then want pvp IS GENKING. and the attackers should be punished........not too hard but they should be.

 

GENKERS kill pvp and owpvpv....and as long as the collective pvpv comunity protects Genkers and facilitate GENKING through rule changes then owpvp is dead on here.

[Kaedusz]

The basic premise that the population of PvP servers is lower at the moment than the population of other servers, because of ganking is idiotic. Not sure where it comes from.

 

Not to mention that World PvP was never even a thing in SWTOR, except maybe in the early days of Illum. It happened once in a blue moon and is random. Even less so after 4.0. It's not like almost every inch of neutral ground was/is constantly occupied by enemy faciton players, who are looking for a fight, the way it was in Vanilla WoW and TBC.

 

The World PvP that has being going on in this game was never even remotely close to the amount necessary to stop or hinder your leveling in a serious way.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Jherad]

And you know what killed it?? World Of Warcraft.

 

I don't think I agree with that. Vanilla WOW had some of the best open world PvP since DAOC. Tarren Mill battles could last for days.

 

I'd say the biggest hits to open world pvp were small instanced zones and instant travel. SWTOR had some promising open world pvp, but the engine couldn't handle it, so BW have been trying to drown that puppy ever since.

[Dimdeo]

...er, that was supposed to be cynicism, not endorsement.

 

OPvP had its day in the early days of MMO gaming, but its ultimately a failed concept. The only thing game developers have found out with numerous OPvP experiments is that it is detrimental to the gameplay on a large scale, due to the fact that it is inherently impossible to balance it in any meaning of the word.

 

Hence, people are forced to fend for themselves in any way they can.

 

Personally, I don't mind because I've been 'baptized with fire' since my initial MMO experience was with Ultima Online back in '96 or '98, before they did that Felucca/Trammel split. Friggin' "murderors" everywhere in that game. But back then, I was in my 20's, and fiery and temperamental with PvP fights. I was ready to defend myself on demand, and as much kill people on demand whenever I saw them.

 

But in those days, I've never given thought about how others might feel. Many people would not mind maybe a fight or two, or a death every now and then, but PvPers know no limits. You can't enforce any kind of morality in OPvP, and there is no way to restrict people from just plain wrecking the everyday experience of other people who are timid and not so battle-hardened.

 

Why do so many people populate PvE servers, and why are the numbers in PvP servers dwindling? Isn't it obvious that people don't enjoy being targeted and 'hunted down' so frequently? The age of OPvP is over. Things have moved on to consensual PvP where people fight under equal circumstances, or not at all.

 

 

If there's one thing PvPers suck at, its seeing things beyond their own egos and cocky demeanor. Many people don't realize just how much abuse there exists in those "clever tactics to always win". That's why they don't realize why OPvP doesn't work, and that's why they do foolish and stupid shi* like premades in casual queues, that does nothing but drive more and more newbies and casuals away from the game.

 

^As a former UO player whose guild village was located in Felucca (the open PvP area) i fully agree with this post :-)

[DomiSotto]

I think I would not mind the OwPvP if:

 

it continued on the ‘free for all’ trend, but assigned on entry “rotworm’ and ‘frogdog’ tag that will be dynamically switched based on the surviving population in the area;

 

eliminate companions from it completely;

 

provide attractive and changing goals to be achieved by questing in the OwPvP areas such as earning tokens for the OMG items, and yep, give participation-consolation prizes too.

 

give a huge incentive for coming to an aid of a player that is against uneven odds and give a solo player an immediate access for cover from powerful NPCs if attacked by a group and mask their escape or trail, let them surrender and teleport to a completely different part of the area after death… whatever so they can’t be chain-killed;

 

provide stealth busting accessories that can be activated to reduce the initiative of the stealth classes

 

make the area concentric/staged with the more and more rewards gained as ventured closer to the center/end point but you have to be in a larger and larger group to pass a checkpoint to get to the next level

 

aim to stratify the players in the area by how often they get killed by a sort of an ELO, and either provide temporary respites and immunities, or when possible instance out the leets to pick on the guys of their own size.

 

In other words, to populate an area it gotta have things to do there and ways to preserve dignity of the losers. And as much as possible to get away from the cancer that is the permanent affiliation with a faction and abject irrational hatred of those who are not it.

 

EDIT: And, yeah, make it unrestricted access for anyone on the end level, so you can quest while PvP'ing there as a preferred player

Edited March 16, 2016 by DomiSotto

[Yorioko]

I think I would not mind the OwPvP if:

 

it continued on the ‘free for all’ trend, but assigned on entry “rotworm’ and ‘frogdog’ tag that will be dynamically switched based on the surviving population in the area;

 

eliminate companions from it completely;

 

provide attractive and changing goals to be achieved by questing in the OwPvP areas such as earning tokens for the OMG items, and yep, give participation-consolation prizes too.

 

give a huge incentive for coming to an aid of a player that is against uneven odds and give a solo player an immediate access for cover from powerful NPCs if attacked by a group and mask their escape or trail, let them surrender and teleport to a completely different part of the area after death… whatever so they can’t be chain-killed;

 

provide stealth busting accessories that can be activated to reduce the initiative of the stealth classes

 

make the area concentric/staged with the more and more rewards gained as ventured closer to the center/end point but you have to be in a larger and larger group to pass a checkpoint to get to the next level

 

aim to stratify the players in the area by how often they get killed by a sort of an ELO, and either provide temporary respites and immunities, or when possible instance out the leets to pick on the guys of their own size.

 

In other words, to populate an area it gotta have things to do there and ways to preserve dignity of the losers. And as much as possible to get away from the cancer that is the permanent affiliation with a faction and abject irrational hatred of those who are not it.

 

EDIT: And, yeah, make it unrestricted access for anyone on the end level, so you can quest while PvP'ing there as a preferred player

 

The main issue I see with this is that if players not pvp inclined at all is now forced not only to pvp, but to team up in larger and larger groups to do.

 

Would not pvp specific CHOSEN and story progress independent Operations be awesome, meaning some of the operation/FP maps in todays pvp turns into 8vs8 of 16vs16.

 

Allow for grouping up and forming groups in contested areas, make it maye conquest related.

 

But to have an environment where your only option to progress in the game is if and when you get grouped up with enough people able to cooperate, I think is a ver very vrong way to go about it

[foxmob]

SWTOR had some promising open world pvp, but the engine couldn't handle it, so BW have been trying to drown that puppy ever since.

 

^this. I think they realized -- to their horror -- that it just wasn't possible to support large scale battles with their core engine, so they focused on small scale stuff. drown is a great verb there though. heh.

[DomiSotto]

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, but providing a content for groups in a PvP area and restricting it for groups fosters community build-up, eliminate the whole "and then 3 sins and an operative jumped me as I was carrying a node in every instance", and allows more interesting tasks with less consideration given to "oh, but can a Merc Healer solo it?". We did not lack solo content in this game last time I've checked. PvE guilds are much more numerous, welcoming and better organized because they are tasked with fielding groups of 8s and 16s. Edited March 16, 2016 by DomiSotto