EQN dead, Wildstar dying...swtor?

[trueKieran]

In the last 24 hours there was official announcements that Everquest Next has been cancelled. Add to that Wildstar has laid off almost all of their dev department and cancelled a planned move into the China market. Unless Wildstar has a successful release on Steam it will be shut down (if it lasts that long). All in all not a good news day for mmorpg lovers.

 

Ok SWTOR has serious problems, but those are not related to the ones of these two. Wildstar was pretty much doomed from the get-go and Everquest Next died the moment they realised that they can make money off Landmarks, after all why go through all the trouble of shaping and balancing a game when people already pay you for just the building tool.

Edited March 14, 2016 by trueKieran

[peter_plankskull]

As much as I hate to defend SWTOR for its faults, SWTOR has something those other games didn't.... the second most famous IP in the world. It's kind of hard to flop a star wars game in this day and age between how known star wars is, and how casual the audience is now a days. Not to mention the hype of a new movie that they can ride the gravy train off of. If SWTOR didn't have this massive IP, then I find it hard to believe it would be as successful as it would right now.

[Pagy]

swtor is end of life

 

even harbinger is light now

 

bw devs cannot resolve bugs, they cant produce content...this is beyond life support this is "no support"

[helpmewin]

How about #choicesmatter and #enjoyurpersonalstory? No? Swtor is dying, coz peoples want to see an MMO with group content stuff. Edited March 14, 2016 by helpmewin

[ChicksDigHarleys]

Disappointed to hear about EQN. I would have given that one a shot. Only MMO in the pipe now I have any interest in is Camelot Unchained. Never even considered Wildstar. I didn't like the art style...same reason I never tried WoW.

 

UO and DAoC are both EA properties that have minimal subs and are still going. I suspect this game will go until the license expires.

[Ybini]

Disappointed to hear about EQN. I would have given that one a shot. Only MMO in the pipe now I have any interest in is Camelot Unchained. Never even considered Wildstar. I didn't like the art style...same reason I never tried WoW.

 

UO and DAoC are both EA properties that have minimal subs and are still going. I suspect this game will go until the license expires.

I think Wildstar was hoping to draw in some WoW players because the style was similar. I had a hard time with both for the same reason too.

[Isnogut]

Ok SWTOR has serious problems, but those are not related to the ones of these two. Wildstar was pretty much doomed from the get-go and Everquest Next died the moment they realised that they can make money off Landmarks, after all why go through all the trouble of shaping and balancing a game when people already pay you for just the building tool.

You are mistaken.

WildStar was never designed to be mainstream. But Carbine was forced to reshape it. At this point WildStar is only a shade of itself. Agreed, a stable one, but only a shade in game and playthrough design. The publisher got greedy and paired with all the release bugs the doomed scenario was build.

 

EQN got doomed the moment SOE was sold out. The new owner let the biggest part of the developer team go, asuring the developement won't stop and be delayed. ...Yea right, which bozo would belive that? A Alpha state game and over 3/4 of the staff is gone. Good luck keeping the development even going. Landmark did absolutely have nothign to do with this developemt. It was simply a valve for gaining money even if the game wasn't finished yet.

 

IMHO most of the producers are idiots. They do not understand that only originality can be a big success. Just look around, only original titles do make big money, no mater the genre and medium. Clones do only bring mediocre money, but they will never be a absolute success.

 

I think Wildstar was hoping to draw in some WoW players because the style was similar. I had a hard time with both for the same reason too.

What are you talking about? Wildstar is similar in what wy to WOW? Palete of Color, ...and what else? Like, ...nothing else? OHH, LOOK A CLONE!!!!!!!!

 

Neither the art design, nor the engine, and also not the gameplay, setting, etc. are even the slightest comparable to WOW. Yust play that freaking game and you'll get the idea by yourself. And IF you really want to be correct, than you can say, yes the inner circle of Carbine is made of developers who splitted during WOW alpha from Blizzard. Their reason was, WOW did not went there, where they wanted it to be. Housing, costuming, fighting system, missiondesign, etc. They wanted to revolutionise the entire idea, but Blizzad had other plans. So they went away and founded Carbine. All of their basic ideas you can find in Wildstar. However it went from "revoulution" of the genre more to the slight "evolution".

Edited March 14, 2016 by Isnogut

[Thoronmir]

What has this got to do with swtor? My belief is that the day this game stops being profitable, EA will shut it down a nanosecond later.

I pretty much stopped reading at this point in the OP (well .... I skimmed the rest ... just enough to glean the OP's plea that we keep funding SWTOR or lose it).

 

When any game stops being profitable, I expect the developer to shut it down. I don't expect a restaurant to keep serving my favorite dish long after the business is bankrupt. I doubt my maid service (which I've used for 20 years) would keep cleaning my home if they lost money doing so.

 

SWTOR is a business and businesses exist only so long as they turn a profit. No news there. While I agree with the OP's sentiment that, if you enjoy SWTOR, let them know so with your dollars, I also know that I will likely stop patronizing my favorite restaurant if I don't like the food. I will find a new maid service if they keep breaking my stuff. So, I echo the OP's plea that those of us who enjoy SWTOR support it. I also agree with those who wish SWTOR proved more deserving of their support.

[Warrgames]

There is only so many piece you can cut the player base pie into. Since the MMO genre of game is oversaturated with different titles. (Most people on the forums can name 10 different MMO without trying.) Top it off with fickle player base, that doesn't know what it wants and devours content faster than any dev can produce.

 

Will SWTOR die? Someday.

[Thoronmir]

Will SWTOR die? Someday.

No it won't! My parents promised me that, when the time came, SWTOR would go live on a farm in the country!

[Bullfrogjaws]

Things just ain't what they used to be. MMO's circa early 2000's were more about roleplaying and just being immersed into the world. It was a pleasure to walk around everywhere on foot, to take in the scenery. There was a sense of magic that is totally gone for the most part nowadays. The fun in gaming back then was just playing the game. Now people gripe if they have to click more then 4 buttons, or sit through a cut scene.

 

It's all changed now. Gaming mentality is more like "gotta login and get muh dailies/weeklys done and get dat' loot yo" the world itself and the players in it are just a giant inconvenience. TO be fair though, I play this game because its a wonderful solo game! I don't really group or hassle with doing OP/FP because I've turned into one of those old grumps that can't be bothered to sit through that type of content. The most I'll put up with as far as group content is WZ and even that gets on my nerves cause of Sorcs. -_-

 

This is literally exactly how I feel. Played WoW at launch up until Wrath. It was magical being a part of that world and interacting with real live people as their characters. Eventually it turned into being a hassle just to group with people in games and MMOs. Communities have changed for the worse. They've become toxic. I am new to SWTOR, and I have loved it because of its solo-ability. I can play it by myself and enjoy it by myself, for the most part. This coming from an ex-WoW hardcore raider and PVPer.

[Ybini]

..snip..

What are you talking about? Wildstar is similar in what wy to WOW? Palete of Color, ...and what else? Like, ...nothing else? OHH, LOOK A CLONE!!!!!!!!

 

Neither the art design, nor the engine, and also not the gameplay, setting, etc. are even the slightest comparable to WOW. Yust play that freaking game and you'll get the idea by yourself. And IF you really want to be correct, than you can say, yes the inner circle of Carbine is made of developers who splitted during WOW alpha from Blizzard. Their reason was, WOW did not went there, where they wanted it to be. Housing, costuming, fighting system, missiondesign, etc. They wanted to revolutionise the entire idea, but Blizzad had other plans. So they went away and founded Carbine. All of their basic ideas you can find in Wildstar. However it went from "revoulution" of the genre more to the slight "evolution".

 

It is cartoony just like Wow. I don't mind cartoons for my cartoons though. I just prefer something less exaggerated for my games.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Ybini

[Warrgames]

No it won't! My parents promised me that, when the time came, SWTOR would go live on a farm in the country!

 

You caught me. I was trying to be all doom and gloom.

[Isnogut]

It is cartoony just like Wow. I don't mind cartoons for my cartoons though. I just prefer something less exaggerated for my games.

...so you landed in SWTOR, that super realistic game, huh?

[Max_Killjoy]

No it won't! My parents promised me that, when the time came, SWTOR would go live on a farm in the country!

 

Isn't that kinda what happened to SWG?

[Codedrago]

Isn't that kinda what happened to SWG?

 

No, we sent that with the fish...

[MadCuzBad]

Isn't that kinda what happened to SWG?

 

Isn't that kinda what happened to SWG?

 

Do not ever compare this game with SWG ever! Why? Because there is none whatsoever.

 

Whether or not SWG is here today or not here and for whatever reasons why (the license was not allowed to be renewed by Lucas Arts prior to this games release) or any other reason, this game is NOTHING compared to SWG.

 

I like this game I am not going to lie, but this game like it or don't like it is absolutely a zero in comparison to SWG.

 

SWG was 50 times of what this game is. There is absolutely no comparison.

 

This game is and has an EPIC storyline. That is without any debate. Personally I spacebar as fast as I can thru them every single time. I have 25 lvl 65 toons and have never 1 time followed the storyline on any single one of them. I could not care less about it. But I realize I am in the large minority on that one. But even though I have nothing at all to do with the storyline, I do know that it is epic.

 

That is the one and only thing this game has or had over SWG. On every single other aspect of an MMO SWG absolutely mops the floors with this game. Pre CU, post CU, NGE I don't care what aspect of SWG. It annihilated this game BIGTIME.

 

Like this game, I played SWG from start to finish. There is no comparison. TBH they really don't belong in the same sentence together unless your going to say how much SWG had over this game. Other than that they don't belong in the same sentence.

[thebobmaster]

Do not ever compare this game with SWG ever! Why? Because there is none whatsoever.

 

Whether or not SWG is here today or not here and for whatever reasons why (the license was not allowed to be renewed by Lucas Arts prior to this games release) or any other reason, this game is NOTHING compared to SWG.

 

I like this game I am not going to lie, but this game like it or don't like it is absolutely a zero in comparison to SWG.

 

SWG was 50 times of what this game is. There is absolutely no comparison.

 

This game is and has an EPIC storyline. That is without any debate. Personally I spacebar as fast as I can thru them every single time. I have 25 lvl 65 toons and have never 1 time followed the storyline on any single one of them. I could not care less about it. But I realize I am in the large minority on that one. But even though I have nothing at all to do with the storyline, I do know that it is epic.

 

That is the one and only thing this game has or had over SWG. On every single other aspect of an MMO SWG absolutely mops the floors with this game. Pre CU, post CU, NGE I don't care what aspect of SWG. It annihilated this game BIGTIME.

 

Like this game, I played SWG from start to finish. There is no comparison. TBH they really don't belong in the same sentence together unless your going to say how much SWG had over this game. Other than that they don't belong in the same sentence.

 

And yet SWG lasted 8 years, but never got anywhere near the subscription numbers of this game. Strange how a game supposedly superior in every way was nowhere near the success of this game. I'm not even talking about in terms of pure numbers, either. Even compared to MMOs of the time, SWG was never as successful as hoped. LucasArts expected 1 million subscribers, but it took 2-3 years to even sell that many copies.

 

ETA: This is not confirmed, exactly (the head dev denied it at the time, but we all know how little that means), but after the NGE launched, one site (which is now defunct, but I found an article mentioning it) tracked a total of 10,363 subscribers playing on a Friday night in February of 2006. Keep in mind that unlike SWTOR, there was no free to play option. If that's how many subscribers were playing, that's how many legitimate players were playing.

 

Say all you want about how great SWG was, but the numbers clearly show that it failed in the most important way a game can: it didn't get the players. In July of 2005, SWG had 250K subs. That just doesn't really show the numbers that LucasArts wanted and deemed successful. I'm not really debating the quality, as how good a game is is entirely subjective. My point is merely to show that on the best objective basis, the financial side, SWG failed, and while it is possible SWTOR is heading down the same route, it doesn't seem to have done so as fast as SWG did.

Edited March 14, 2016 by thebobmaster

[peter_plankskull]

And yet SWG lasted 8 years, but never got anywhere near the subscription numbers of this game. Strange how a game supposedly superior in every way was nowhere near the success of this game. I'm not even talking about in terms of pure numbers, either. Even compared to MMOs of the time, SWG was never as successful as hoped. LucasArts expected 1 million subscribers, but it took 2-3 years to even sell that many copies.

 

Popularity doesn't mean its better or not, if we go by that logic, COD is the best shooter in the market, when obviously its not.

[thebobmaster]

Popularity doesn't mean its better or not, if we go by that logic, COD is the best shooter in the market, when obviously its not.

 

You're right, of course. I edited my original post to try to make it a bit clearer about what I meant.

[MadCuzBad]

And yet SWG lasted 8 years, but never got anywhere near the subscription numbers of this game. Strange how a game supposedly superior in every way was nowhere near the success of this game. I'm not even talking about in terms of pure numbers, either. Even compared to MMOs of the time, SWG was never as successful as hoped. LucasArts expected 1 million subscribers, but it took 2-3 years to even sell that many copies.

 

You seem to know a lot about both games. How many subscribers did SWG have at its peak? Was that information ever made to be public information from Lucas Arts or SOE? Because I played that game for 8 years and never did see those numbers made public.

 

And besides that issue, there is nobody that can deny that SWG was 50 times what this game is. Its not an opinion its just the way it is.

 

Just with the crafting system alone, the resource system, the entertainment system, the real live bounty hunter system, player city housing, entire player built cities, the political system, the PVP system, jump to lightspeed (an entire game within a game) open world elite random drops, completely customizable decoration system, open world PVP, instanced PVP, conquest PVP open world every 3 hours, PVP ranks with decay built in (general, officer, lieutenant and so on) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. I could seriously go on for hours. Its not my opinion, that's just fact.

 

Im am not asking you if you liked the game or not. I don't care if you liked it, I am saying pound for pound there is absolutely no comparison like it or not. Its like comparing a twin turbo porshe 911 to a VW rabbit. I am not asking you if you like the 911, all I am saying is that pound for pound there is no comparison between the two cars. They are night and day, just like SWG is night and day to TOR. No comparison.

[thebobmaster]

You seem to know a lot about both games. How many subscribers did SWG have at its peak? Was that information ever made to be public information from Lucas Arts or SOE? Because I played that game for 8 years and never did see those numbers made public.

 

And besides that issue, there is nobody that can deny that SWG was 50 times what this game is. Its not an opinion its just the way it is.

 

Just with the crafting system alone, the resource system, the entertainment system, the real live bounty hunter system, player city housing, entire player built cities, the political system, the PVP system, jump to lightspeed (an entire game within a game) open world elite random drops, completely customizable decoration system, open world PVP, instanced PVP, conquest PVP open world every 3 hours, PVP ranks with decay built in (general, officer, lieutenant and so on) etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. I could seriously go on for hours. Its not my opinion, that's just fact.

 

Im am not asking you if you liked the game or not. I don't care if you liked it, I am saying pound for pound there is absolutely no comparison like it or not. Its like comparing a twin turbo porshe 911 to a VW rabbit. I am not asking you if you like the 911, all I am saying is that pound for pound there is no comparison between the two cars. They are night and day, just like SWG is night and day to TOR. No comparison.

 

I actually don't have any solid numbers, beyond what I put in the edited post. To address your last paragraph, you're right in that. I apologize if I came off as dismissive of you, or trying to say this game or that game is better. That really wasn't my intention. All I can say is that I've gotten a bit defensive in terms of defending my own interests, and that when I played SWG Emu, I didn't really enjoy it that much.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

 

And besides that issue, there is nobody that can deny that SWG was 50 times what this game is. Its not an opinion its just the way it is.

 

.

 

50 times less than what this game is then sure.

[Djiini]

And besides that issue, there is nobody that can deny that SWG was 50 times what this game is.

 

It's not a fact though. All the stuff you listed is what YOU like in a game. That's not an 'objectively good game'. I play a Star Wars game to play through an epic tale, what with the original trilogy being the story of the Hero's Journey, for example. I don't play a Star Wars game for an OPEN WORLD SANDBOX where nothing matters, where people couldn't even start off as a Jedi and had to go through a complex amount of ******** to even get there. It's literally the difference between something like Oblivion/Morrowind and Skyrim. Your assertion it's objectively better is ludicrous and makes you seem ignorant. The fact you're playing a game that's, in your opinion, only 1/50th as good as a game that honestly wasn't that great to begin with blows my mind.

 

The idea that CRAFTING or PVP is what's necessary for a good MMO is a carefully constructed piece of BS created by companies who can't write for crap. It's called a skinner box, kid. It's designed to keep you doing stuff that isn't fun. Take off the nostalgia goggles, SWG really wasn't that good.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Djiini

[MadCuzBad]

It's not a fact though. All the stuff you listed is what YOU like in a game. That's not an 'objectively good game'. I play a Star Wars game to play through an epic tale, what with the original trilogy being the story of the Hero's Journey, for example. I don't play a Star Wars game for an OPEN WORLD SANDBOX where nothing matters, where people couldn't even start off as a Jedi and had to go through a complex amount of ******** to even get there. It's literally the difference between something like Oblivion/Morrowind and Skyrim. Your assertion it's objectively better is ludicrous and makes you seem ignorant. The fact you're playing a game that's, in your opinion, only 1/50th as good as a game that honestly wasn't that great to begin with blows my mind.

 

The idea that CRAFTING or PVP is what's necessary for a good MMO is a carefully constructed piece of BS created by companies who can't write for crap. It's called a skinner box, kid. It's designed to keep you doing stuff that isn't fun. Take off the nostalgia goggles, SWG really wasn't that good.

 

I obviously struck a very sensitive nerve. Ok let me dumb it down a little for you. It seems your making a mountain out of a molehill. Let me try to simplify it for you. Maybe I confused you a little by going onto to many specifics.

 

Ok here we go. Besides the storyline, name me one thing that this game has over SWG. Im not asking you to compare graphics engines either. Don't be a smart ***. Game for game, what does this game offer that SWG did not? Name me 1. Just 1.

 

I wont hold my breath waiting for your response. I don't want to pass out for lack of air.