Game has died, Nowhere to go

[Jadescythe]

Its not just fleet numbers. It is any numbers. The problem with some people is that they jump into a thread without reading. And if you would have read it was covered extensively that fleet numbers are only a tiny part of the conclusion. The who tab and personal visits to certain planets fills in the rest. And the evidence is irrefutable because those are actually live numbers. They are demonstrable and real time.

 

If you want irrefutable evidence, then you need screenshots, dates, times. /Who is not irrefutable evidence as it is frequently incorrect on even the most basic searches.

[Max_Killjoy]

If you want irrefutable evidence, then you need screenshots, dates, times. /Who is not irrefutable evidence as it is frequently incorrect on even the most basic searches.

 

Especially if one happens to spell the names of the planets or instances incorrectly... just saying...

[Exly]

When is the last time the OP posted in the thread? 90%+ of the discussion has been because of irrelevant fleet numbers and how much of an indicator that is on total game population. Your statements are irrelevant to the discussion of the last week. The OP clearly only cares about PvP and he's about 3 years too late to join that mass exodus.

 

That's the problem. As you have said he is too late for that mass exodus. Add to that the fact that he is too late for the PvE mass exodus and the fact that some servers are now virtual waste lands, while even populated servers are struggling to get enough people on to form up or any type of group content, and I think that you might start to understand why people like me agree with the idea that the game is dying.

 

There was a time in this game starting with the launch of 2.0 and ending with the launch of 3.0 where the devs got it right, and the game benefitted as a result.

 

During that period we got 2 new releases of solo story content, 5 new operations, gsf, 2 new 8v8 pvp maps, 4 4v4 pvp maps, and at least 6 new 4 person flashpoints.

 

Since then we have receive no new operations, or gsf maps, or 4 man flashpoints, and have received only 1 new 8v8 and 1 new 4v4 pvp map.

 

The result is that a large number of people who where happy with the game have unsubed, and now the devs need to run promotions like the "story so far" to encourage people to play the content that they are giving us.

 

The truth is that the for many of us the devs have lost their way, and they are failing to give us what we really want.

 

Dwindling player populations are simply a natural result of the choice that the devs made to virtually abandon development of new group content.

[Jadescythe]

That's the problem. As you have said he is too late for that mass exodus. Add to that the fact that he is too late for the PvE mass exodus and the fact that some servers are now virtual waste lands, while even populated servers are struggling to get enough people on to form up or any type of group content, and I think that you might start to understand why people like me agree with the idea that the game is dying.

 

There was a time in this game starting with the launch of 2.0 and ending with the launch of 3.0 where the devs got it right, and the game benefitted as a result.

 

During that period we got 2 new releases of solo story content, 5 new operations, gsf, 2 new 8v8 pvp maps, 4 4v4 pvp maps, and at least 6 new 4 person flashpoints.

 

Since then we have receive no new operations, or gsf maps, or 4 man flashpoints, and have received only 1 new 8v8 and 1 new 4v4 pvp map.

 

The result is that a large number of people who where happy with the game have unsubed, and now the devs need to run promotions like the "story so far" to encourage people to play the content that they are giving us.

 

The truth is that the for many of us the devs have lost their way, and they are failing to give us what we really want.

 

Dwindling player populations are simply a natural result of the choice that the devs made to virtually abandon development of new group content.

 

And yet the game continues to succeed as evidenced in the last EA quarterly report. The player base is changing, but not dwindling. Which is why using measures that would indicate population in the past may not be indicative of the future population. It's all speculation.

 

And I have had no trouble getting groups for any group content on harbinger. There are definitely dead servers (pot5), but there are many active servers as well (SL, EH, JC).

[Exly]

And yet the game continues to succeed as evidenced in the last EA quarterly report. The player base is changing, but not dwindling. Which is why using measures that would indicate population in the past may not be indicative of the future population. It's all speculation.

 

And I have had no trouble getting groups for any group content on harbinger. There are definitely dead servers (pot5), but there are many active servers as well (SL, EH, JC).

 

I agree, there definitely are dead servers. I also understand that we have had dead servers in the past that no longer exist because they were merged into other servers, and that the existing dead servers are that way because of the mass exodus that you wrote about in your earlier post, and because others made the decision to relocate their characters to an active server in order to be able to find other people to do group content with.

 

Still, all things considered there does seem to be a real loss of players in the game.

 

That may not have been true in the second half of 2015, but it certainly appears to be true now.

 

Now you obviously disagree with me about that, and only time will tell which one of us is right, but from my point of view I believe that the game is suffering from the loss of too many players right now, and that players will continue to leave unless the devs do something to show us that they are working giving us some new group content very soon.

 

p.s. in case you're wondering, I don't mean the smart *** "soon™" that Ben used in his recent open letter, but soon as in by the end of this summer (2016).

[MaximumOwnage]

I agree, there definitely are dead servers. I also understand that we have had dead servers in the past that no longer exist because they were merged into other servers, and that the existing dead servers are that way because of the mass exodus that you wrote about in your earlier post, and because others made the decision to relocate their characters to an active server in order to be able to find other people to do group content with.

 

Still, all things considered there does seem to be a real loss of players in the game.

 

That may not have been true in the second half of 2015, but it certainly appears to be true now.

 

Now you obviously disagree with me about that, and only time will tell which one of us is right, but from my point of view I believe that the game is suffering from the loss of too many players right now, and that players will continue to leave unless the devs do something to show us that they are working giving us some new group content very soon.

 

p.s. in case you're wondering, I don't mean the smart *** "soon™" that Ben used in his recent open letter, but soon as in by the end of this summer (2016).

 

It is nice to see a response to the actual OP and not some mindless attack on a person. Your statement is also what I have observed. I also share you thoughts on the future if something isn't done. And I am not talking about another storyline either. This game needs more than a little TLC to make a rebound. These developers need to take evasive action to head off what's coming soon in my opinion.

[Tsillah]

The player base is changing, but not dwindling.

 

Well and there it is.

 

I'll be interested to see the next one coming out next week.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Tsillah

[MeNaCe-NZ]

And yet the game continues to succeed as evidenced in the last EA quarterly report.

 

At risk of sounding like I am in any agreeing with anything MaximumBad has put across in this thread ( I'm really not ) I do feel the need to point out that the only thing that call evidenced was that the KoTFe launch was a success. It's been since January the doom and gloom has spiked and thus it's their period onward we want to look at.

 

Luckily the 4th quarter investor call is due 10th May so we'll get some interesting discussion on this around then ( though it never seems to tell us any hard numbers we can at least form conclusions based on what is or is not said ).

 

The player base is changing, but not dwindling. Which is why using measures that would indicate population in the past may not be indicative of the future population. It's all speculation.

 

Well I think it's clear it's dwindling ... there is not to suggest it's static from the time period of say that last investor call

and certainly not growing.

All evidence points to dwindling playerbase but as I've pointed out previously this happens every year around now ... it's whether or not it picks back up after X announcements as it has done in years past.

 

My concern if the announcement is "KoTFE season 2 .. even more chapters!" then you will not see this spike. A spike in August for those who want to run all of it in one hit for one months sub cost and then a drop off again.

 

Hopefully there is something special to be announced and turn it around as it does every year but the lack of any sort of communication on this point sure is frustrating.

[Andryah]

yeesh... the thread that won't die.. even with other low hanging whine-fruit on the thread this Monday.

 

Unlike this thread (which is a horse flogged now well beyond death), game is not dead. The old PvP servers are dead. But let's be honest here.... PvPers have been declaring their go-to servers since shortly after launch and have bee abandoning every single one of them over time right up to the present.

 

Shall we recap the original post.....

 

Game is dead (to him, and his few alter egos) because the OP prosecutes an extremely narrow view of what the game is... ie: random group PvP with no wait times in the PvP queues.

 

He even moved to the largest PvE server two years ago to gain access to the largest single server population in order to get minimal queue times. Mission accomplished for him. But I believe his real agenda (based on his numerous dramatic threads) is to try to convince other players that if you don't transfer to his server to be his team-mates (or cannon fodder) on demand, 7/24... then you are not playing the game right and he will go to any lengths to create drama about "game is dead".

Edited May 2, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Well I think it's clear it's dwindling ... there is not to suggest it's static from the time period of say that last investor call and certainly not growing.

 

All evidence points to dwindling playerbase but as I've pointed out previously this happens every year around now ... it's whether or not it picks back up after X announcements as it has done in years past.

 

Honestly, none of us can tell for sure. Why? Because like all modern MMOs, an expac brings in a surge and several months after expac, that surge of players dwindles off and waits for the next expac. So trying to assess the health of the game right now (in the mid point between expacs) is the worst way to go about it.

 

The other thing that I think people are ignoring is that the chapter format of this expac does not mean there are less subscribers, but more likely that they play in a frenzy for a few days to a week when a patch drops, and then play less after that, until the next patch.

 

What will really tell us how the health of the game is will be when they drop the next expac, and how the servers get loaded as a result. We saw a huge surge with 4.0, to the point where they had to expand the server hardware configurations on multiple servers.

 

What I want to see is what comes in the next expac, in order to better assess (in general, not for any particular players pet content preference). If they indeed do bring out the next expac with focus centered on more story arc chapters, then clearly they are meeting their business goals with that approach and will continue. If we see a different direction in the next expac... then that validates that the studio agrees with players.... that story is not enough and they need more and different. So for me personally, I want to see where they go with the next expac before passing judgment.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Honestly, none of us can tell for sure. Why? Because like all modern MMOs, an expac brings in a surge and several months after expac, that surge of players dwindles off and waits for the next expac. So trying to assess the health of the game right now (in the mid point between expacs) is the worst way to go about it.

 

Agreed but I think anyone trying to argue that population isn't on a decline from say October-December has their head buried in the sand.

 

Whether or not it's trending down still is hard to say ... I would think it's hit a rather static low point with an uptrend on the way though that is solely dependent on what is announced next i.e. what the future holds for this game this year.

 

The other thing that I think people are ignoring is that the chapter format of this expac does not mean there are less subscribers, but more likely that they play in a frenzy for a few days to a week when a patch drops, and then play less after that, until the next patch.

 

Probably true but in terms of population I guess we are only talking about those that we can see regularly over the course of a month. Even where what you say there is true it still doesn't dictate whether or not that particular subscriber base has declined.

 

One thing to note there is there WILL be people who have taken advantage of the chapter subscriber structure and have given up sub whilst planning to resub at the end to get it all in one hit.

It was always a gamble imo for Bioware to adopt this method and whether or not is paying off only they can tell at this stage.

 

I do think though a couple of operations, new flashpoints and a new daily area or 2 within a month of chapter 16 would be perfect.

As I've pointed out in other threads it would ideally then make the previous 12 month period one of the ( if not the ) most active in terms of content in the history of the game.

 

Also the timing would be perfect to catch all the returning players who do want to consume chapters en masse and give them something to spend months doing afterwards ... plus they come fresh from a decent break from the game which is all you need sometimes for revitalise the game for you.

Things like Star Fortress and the grind required just to do the content are not that solution, it needs to be fresh content.

 

What will really tell us how the health of the game is will be when they drop the next expac, and how the servers get loaded as a result. We saw a huge surge with 4.0, to the point where they had to expand the server hardware configurations on multiple servers.

 

It will tell us the health of the game at that point in time but if it's insubstantial and numbers quickly drop to where they are now as opposed to over the course of months .... I personally see a problem there.

[MaximumOwnage]

At risk of sounding like I am in any agreeing with anything MaximumBad has put across in this thread ( I'm really not )

 

That kinda hurt.

[MaximumOwnage]

If you want irrefutable evidence, then you need screenshots, dates, times. /Who is not irrefutable evidence as it is frequently incorrect on even the most basic searches.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=881451

 

Go read that. Enough "evidence" for you?

[peter_plankskull]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=881451

 

Go read that. Enough "evidence" for you?

 

You created a third alt now??? Man... this is getting out of hand.

 

Again it isn't any real hard facts about population numbers or anything, just simply another person who agrees that their should be mega servers.

[CrazyCT]

Which bit is the evidence you speak of? The OP who posted the fleet population, or Peter_Plankskull who contradicts him just 3 minutes later with almost double the fleet population and 5 times the amount of people on Coruscant? I'm forced to ask if this is another sock puppet.

 

"Population isn't static and changes minute to minute" - yeah, maybe by one or two, not by 5 times as many. But, like a poor politician, you've once again picked the data that supports your theory, while completely disregarding any data that doesn't. And like a poor politician, you've been seen for what you are. Ah, well, nm - one of these days you'll finally get to tell us that you told us so.

 

It's not today, but eventually, maybe.

[CrazyCT]

You created a third alt now??? Man... this is getting out of hand.

 

Ha, we had the exact same thought.

[MaximumOwnage]

Ha, we had the exact same thought.

 

I cant believe you caught me again. Now I need another account. This is getting expensive

[MaximumOwnage]

You created a third alt now??? Man... this is getting out of hand.

 

Again it isn't any real hard facts about population numbers or anything, just simply another person who agrees that their should be mega servers.

 

But that's where you are wrong. Up until last year, I worked nights. I would log into the game between 4am and 6 am EST daily. Harbinger was jamming. It had multiple instances of fleet at that time and q pops for PVP were instant. It was a great time to play at those hours.

 

Now, not so much. And a lot of this has changed more recently. It wasn't that long ago that 6 am EST was a great time to play harbinger. The refugees were pouring in the server by the boatloads, GTN was jam packed, PVP was instant pop. Things were great. Well now the refugees has slowed to a trickle (all the servers are now drained of life) and with the CC going to 1000 that will end that chapter. But things are different now. It seems that ever week that goes by Harbinger sinks deeper and deeper into eroding population. Ive seen this before on other servers. One minute you have a 15 minute q time to get into the server, next minute your in a ghost town involved in a forced server merger.

[peter_plankskull]

But that's where you are wrong. Up until last year, I worked nights. I would log into the game between 4am and 6 am EST daily. Harbinger was jamming. It had multiple instances of fleet at that time and q pops for PVP were instant. It was a great time to play at those hours.

 

Now, not so much. And a lot of this has changed more recently. It wasn't that long ago that 6 am EST was a great time to play harbinger. The refugees were pouring in the server by the boatloads, GTN was jam packed, PVP was instant pop. Things were great. Well now the refugees has slowed to a trickle (all the servers are now drained of life) and with the CC going to 1000 that will end that chapter. But things are different now. It seems that ever week that goes by Harbinger sinks deeper and deeper into eroding population. Ive seen this before on other servers. One minute you have a 15 minute q time to get into the server, next minute your in a ghost town involved in a forced server merger.

Firstly they actually did raise the required amount of people in a instance to create a second instance, and from what I do recall when their was a second instance at this time it was usually dead with like 10-20 people. Ill admit Harb does feel a little more dead then usual as of the past few weeks, but tomorrow we have a new update with the long and awaited EC to finally launch so hopefully the servers will be restored momentarily at least.

[MaximumOwnage]

Firstly they actually did raise the required amount of people in a instance to create a second instance, and from what I do recall when their was a second instance at this time it was usually dead with like 10-20 people. Ill admit Harb does feel a little more dead then usual as of the past few weeks, but tomorrow we have a new update with the long and awaited EC to finally launch so hopefully the servers will be restored momentarily at least.

 

I hope so to. But so far with the release of a new Star Wars movie, and a huge new chapter things have not gotten any better, they have gotten worse. I hope this turns things around but I wont be so brave as to hold my breath.

[Jadescythe]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=881451

 

Go read that. Enough "evidence" for you?

 

As someone else was posting different information in the same thread, no, it isn't "evidence" enough for me. I was on both Harb fleets last night during East coast and West coast prime times. PvP pops every 2-3 minutes, whole PvP section was populated with people spamming /flap and AoEs. Never went below 2 instances of fleet on either side.

[TUXs]

Firstly they actually did raise the required amount of people in a instance to create a second instance, and from what I do recall when their was a second instance at this time it was usually dead with like 10-20 people. Ill admit Harb does feel a little more dead then usual as of the past few weeks, but tomorrow we have a new update with the long and awaited EC to finally launch so hopefully the servers will be restored momentarily at least.

Peter, that may be true of some servers, but it hasn't happened on Harb in the past year. I know what my numbers were last year when we moved...I know what they are now. The instance population on fleet has not changed.

[MaximumOwnage]

Peter, that may be true of some servers, but it hasn't happened on Harb in the past year. I know what my numbers were last year when we moved...I know what they are now. The instance population on fleet has not changed.

 

Exactly. 150 on fleet is still 150 on fleet before and after hardware update. I don't know why people keep talking about hardware updates when fleet instances are still demonstrable and observable. Nothing is or was hidden before and after.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Peter, that may be true of some servers, but it hasn't happened on Harb in the past year. I know what my numbers were last year when we moved...I know what they are now. The instance population on fleet has not changed.

 

Stop saying last year ... you've proven yourself you not comparing like for like data.

 

This is not the topic for you anymore.

[Max_Killjoy]

Game has gone, nowhere to die. Edited May 3, 2016 by Max_Killjoy