Game has died, Nowhere to go

[xordevoreaux]

I would very much like the next expac to be based on a wide open planet (similar to Tatooine in terms of openness). Ever since Makeb.. I loath the mystery rabbit trails you have to seek out to get from point A to B. Give us some territory to maneuver in and enjoy and spread out the encounters a bit more.. and give us good lighting too.

 

And no map arrows that lead right into the opposite alignment's camp like they do on Belsavis

 

 

Pubs: take the northern arrow going west, not the southern arrow pointing west, which leads into an imperial compound unnecessarily.

 

[Andryah]

And no map arrows that lead right into the opposite alignment's camp like they do on Belsavis

 

Indeed!

Edited April 3, 2016 by Andryah

[peter_plankskull]

Not really the devs fault. If corporate (EA) doesn't wanna spend the money, then they can only do so much.

 

"Corporate EA".... Angry Joe fan I see.

 

47 posts to go OP .

[robertthebard]

I gather than the person you quoted was specifically referring to KotFE?

 

If so, I would say that the multiple playthroughs of the chapters in 4.0 have definitely presented a significant lack of variety, which heavily impacts "repeatability". Particularly when compared to previous expansions. Even setting aside that RotHC had 2 stories for each faction, even SoR had the "class story" nods, and a decent amount of flavor dialog that rewarded the player with multiple alts.

 

KotFE, for all that it is a well-told story, is a step down in terms of "variety". I'm personally more enjoying a re-run of the vanilla class stories -- and yet I have no draw to do a third run through of the 4.0 content.

 

In addition to the lack of dialog variety, there is also a significant lack of interesting combat encounters. Something that every previous expansion did much better, IMO.

 

Welcome to every MMO ever? The issue isn't what KotFE didn't bring to the table, but what the rest of the early game did. You see, in every MMO I've ever played, you roll a level one toon, and you go kill the same mobs until you reach x level, then you move to the next area and kill the same mobs until you reach y level, and then you move on to another area and kill the same mobs until you reach z level.

 

Even DDO, with it's structure, is the same, only instead of public areas where you're in with others, it's private quests where you're group is the only group in the instance. At the end of the day, however, you're doing the same things over and over again. This is also an apt description of progression raiding, in any MMO that has progression raiding. The only thing that KotFE is guilty of is of being just like every other MMO out there. I know people that have dumped thousands of dollars, some of them annually, on a Korean Grinder that has a story, but I'd be willing to bet that not one of them knows what it is.

 

We got spoiled early on, because they had millions of dollars to invest in the original class missions that they evidently don't have now. It would be great to see that focus come back, but really, people have been playing MMOs w/out said stories for years longer than swtor has been around, and they'll continue to play them for years after it's gone.

[Khevar]

Welcome to every MMO ever? The issue isn't what KotFE didn't bring to the table, but what the rest of the early game did.

Sure, comparing any of the expansions to the vanilla game isn't going to be useful. But I was comparing the 2.0 and 3.0 expansions to 4.0.

 

Consider the fact that when one ran RotHC, there is a certain amount of dialog that is specific to your class and conversation options that more closely match your character. SoR did this also, though not as well (5 minute class missions notwithstanding).

 

As well, the "open world" approach to the quests is one that allows for a better "illusion of options", even if it's as simple as "should I go left and kill those mobs or go right and kill these other mobs", or "should I stealth past all of them", or "check out that out-of-the-way elite mobs, I'm going to take them down"

 

KotFE tells a very tight story, but abandons any pretense of having an different options to approach doing anything. Very narrow corridor approach, very little difference in dialog, waves of throwaway mobs, and lack of any sort of optional activities along the way -- hardly anything breaks up the difference between your first and your second run through.

 

It would have been really nice if the writers had put in more nods to the character's backstory (e.g. a greater variety of dialog options, even if they all ended up in the same place), but for whatever reason they didn't, and instead presented a very singular experience.

 

On the plus side, I believe it to be a well-presented story, and I enjoyed it. But it fails on "replayability", IMO.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Khevar

[robertthebard]

Sure, comparing any of the expansions to the vanilla game isn't going to be useful. But I was comparing the 2.0 and 3.0 expansions to 4.0.

 

Consider the fact that when one ran RotHC, there is a certain amount of dialog that is specific to your class and conversation options that more closely match your character. SoR did this also, though not as well (5 minute class missions notwithstanding).

 

As well, the "open world" approach to the quests is one that allows for a better "illusion of options", even if it's as simple as "should I go left and kill those mobs or go right and kill these other mobs", or "should I stealth past all of them", or "check out that out-of-the-way elite mobs, I'm going to take them down"

 

KotFE tells a very tight story, but abandons any pretense of having an different options to approach doing anything. Very narrow corridor approach, very little difference in dialog, waves of throwaway mobs, and lack of any sort of optional activities along the way -- hardly anything breaks up the difference between your first and your second run through.

 

It would have been really nice if the writers had put in more nods to the character's backstory (e.g. a greater variety of dialog options, even if they all ended up in the same place), but for whatever reason they didn't, and instead presented a very singular experience.

 

On the plus, I believe it to be a well-presented story, and I enjoyed it. But it fails on "replayability", IMO.

 

The latest chapter alone gives nods to what you've accomplished on a particular class. The best one, so far as I've gotten with it, was the IA, where Jorgan didn't have a clue who you were. He recognizes the BH and even that Nox was on the DC. However, the chapters can only go to one place, because that's where they're going. 1-9 is getting rescued and establishing the Alliance, 10 and 11 were straight up recruitment missions. There's not a lot of wiggle room. I guess they could kill off a character and have the rescue fail? How you go about getting out does indeed have branches, some of which lead to characters leaving, if they're taken. This isn't much different from SoR, where initially, in the prelude, everything was the same. Every Pub toon went to Korriban first, then Tython, just as every Imp toon went to Tython and then Korriban. They all went to Rakata Prime, and the only difference was were you chatting more with Theron or Lana at the conclusion of each chapter.

 

The Vanilla stories are what set us up for this jarring change, for lack of a better term. KotFE isn't special in lacking in class specific content, every expansion has been the same. The response I got from in game CS when one of the Prelude FPs for SoR failed to complete when I completed it was exactly the same as the one I got when a SF didn't complete: We only support Class Missions. In both instances, I had to re-run the content to get the credit for a completion. Ilum and Makeb are the same way as well. So this "it's not class specific" type of complaint isn't unique to KotFE, and it surely didn't start there, it started on Ilum, and continued to present, and it's as likely a budget issue as anything else. I can't imagine a way to make KotFE make sense with 8 different stories, since it has to wind up at the same place overall.

[Khevar]

I can't imagine a way to make KotFE make sense with 8 different stories, since it has to wind up at the same place overall.

Well, not being a writer myself, I'm not going to pretend I have the answer to how to do it either.

 

All I can say is that I brought each of the 8 classes through Makeb, and I felt like there was enough variety to keep me interested. SoR was harder to justify bringing all of them through, but I did it anyway just to see the 8 "class nod quests". But SoR did bring two open planets with a decent amount of optional questing.

 

The 4.0 expansion is specifically focused on story, at the expense of other parts of "MMO activity". I find it a shame that 4.0 doesn't hold my interest as much as 2.0 did, even if you only look at the story parts (and set aside all the other things that came along with RotHC).

[Khaleijo]

The latest chapter alone gives nods to what you've accomplished on a particular class. The best one, so far as I've gotten with it, was the IA, where Jorgan didn't have a clue who you were. He recognizes the BH and even that Nox was on the DC. However, the chapters can only go to one place, because that's where they're going. 1-9 is getting rescued and establishing the Alliance, 10 and 11 were straight up recruitment missions. There's not a lot of wiggle room. I guess they could kill off a character and have the rescue fail? How you go about getting out does indeed have branches, some of which lead to characters leaving, if they're taken. This isn't much different from SoR, where initially, in the prelude, everything was the same. Every Pub toon went to Korriban first, then Tython, just as every Imp toon went to Tython and then Korriban. They all went to Rakata Prime, and the only difference was were you chatting more with Theron or Lana at the conclusion of each chapter.

 

The Vanilla stories are what set us up for this jarring change, for lack of a better term. KotFE isn't special in lacking in class specific content, every expansion has been the same. The response I got from in game CS when one of the Prelude FPs for SoR failed to complete when I completed it was exactly the same as the one I got when a SF didn't complete: We only support Class Missions. In both instances, I had to re-run the content to get the credit for a completion. Ilum and Makeb are the same way as well. So this "it's not class specific" type of complaint isn't unique to KotFE, and it surely didn't start there, it started on Ilum, and continued to present, and it's as likely a budget issue as anything else. I can't imagine a way to make KotFE make sense with 8 different stories, since it has to wind up at the same place overall.

 

While 8 different stories would be great it isn't realistic that BW returns to that in a way that would rival vanilla class content.

But as the poster you quoted wrote, with 4.0 for many players there is less motivation to replay the story after doing it with one to up to three toons. It just doesn't feel different enough to replay it.

 

There doesn't need to be totally different stories for each class, just more toon specific flavor. The way Aric greeted everyone different is this exactly, i really enjoyed that, especially as an agent too.. But at the same time i was really frustrated that my toons are forced to act in a way that really doesn't fit the way i got to know them. Compared to prevoius story parts, KotFE takes more dialogue out of player hands. You could argue that reactions were generic in the class stories too, like as sith there is "RWARRH i will kill you" most of the time, but it fitted somehow better, because it supported the general characterisations of the different classes. Evil sith, cunning agent, money or honor loving BH, the smart smuggler, serene jedi and so on. Now we have the usual three answers that try to fit to all classes at once and fails to do so very often and breaking the immersion by not fitting to how the toons grew in the players head canon.

 

Playing an evil arrogant sith, my toon would never have said what the devs put in his mouth in the last chapter. As a result i as the playersbehind the toon feel to have much less influence on how my toon is acting. Even if the end result didn't change before either, i was able to express being evil or nice, being ruthless or selfless or just being sith, being agent or any other class and having this special talent for this situation or something like that. Much more often than we are allowed now and that was what gave my toon a personality, that would set him apart from another toon of the same class. That was what inceased replayabilty, (looking at my several smugglers inquisitors and agents ). The big picture is the same every time, but by allowing different conversations here and there, it feels totally different. One playthrough i can be the annoying know-it-all, next time bloodthursty and insane. Just by picking another line i can express a different character or mindset for each of my toons.

These are minor details with great effect. I really miss that in the new chapters, most of the time none of the answers is what my head canon would let the toons say.

In prevoius expansions the class had way more influence on how NPCs would react to you too, now they just act the same way everytime. I'm the outlander and the zakuulians dont know me, but former republics and imperials don't really react differently either. And they should have heard from me being the big hero or enemy before.

 

Aditionally within the 4.0 story, much more of the conversations are scripted without player choices what to say. Yes, it is a nice story, but it often feels more like something to watch, than something to play and being part of.

Again, before there wasn't much influence on the outcome either, but as players we had the illusion of choice and influence much more often by just being allowed to pick an answer.

 

And while i can understand that the story should be easy to play through, these *** three things groups of droids, knights or beasts trash are just annoying. It isn't fun to kill them, because there isn't really a fight to fight, one or two attacks and they fall. But they artificially stretch the way the player has to walk and time you need to play through a chapter.

As you wrote, nothing new as a principle in MMOs in general and also known for long in SWTOR too, but there are many ways to make this more enjoyable and less "you know we can't let you pass through just like this, we hold you back by totally useless trash that never has a chance to be any menace to your toon at all, just to obviously slow you down"

The game always was some sort of tunnel or small corridor the players walked through. But with 4.0 it is so much more obvious with almost everything behind a phase portal and the way the player is led through these tunnels, it is much more immersion breaking. No variety, no choice to take the way right or left, always narrow passage with only one way. I don't know why is bothers me much more now, than with prevoius expansions and the vanilla game, but i guess then, the illusion of a big world was better and it just worked, while i now can see behind the illusion around every corner.

I really enjoyed the 4.0 story with my first toon, but with the second i already had to force me to get through the swamps again to the better chapters. Now after having played the chapters 2x as imperial and 2x as republic, i have to admit that i would enjoy a replay even of the most boring vanilla class story more, than the thought of getting another toon to Odessen. Even the prospect of the better and more individual chapters later on can't really motivate me.

And i played the old stories a lot, so often that i know my favorite ones almost by heart.

As the only thing driving the game at the moment is story, the way i percept the game somehow feels strange, because it feels like having less story than ever before, because i can't "really replay" it.

(Don't know how to to express this better.)

[Max_Killjoy]

Sure, comparing any of the expansions to the vanilla game isn't going to be useful. But I was comparing the 2.0 and 3.0 expansions to 4.0.

 

Consider the fact that when one ran RotHC, there is a certain amount of dialog that is specific to your class and conversation options that more closely match your character. SoR did this also, though not as well (5 minute class missions notwithstanding).

 

As well, the "open world" approach to the quests is one that allows for a better "illusion of options", even if it's as simple as "should I go left and kill those mobs or go right and kill these other mobs", or "should I stealth past all of them", or "check out that out-of-the-way elite mobs, I'm going to take them down"

 

KotFE tells a very tight story, but abandons any pretense of having an different options to approach doing anything. Very narrow corridor approach, very little difference in dialog, waves of throwaway mobs, and lack of any sort of optional activities along the way -- hardly anything breaks up the difference between your first and your second run through.

 

It would have been really nice if the writers had put in more nods to the character's backstory (e.g. a greater variety of dialog options, even if they all ended up in the same place), but for whatever reason they didn't, and instead presented a very singular experience.

 

On the plus side, I believe it to be a well-presented story, and I enjoyed it. But it fails on "replayability", IMO.

 

 

This is why I've called KotFE "interactive cinema" instead of an RPG.

[CrazyCT]

Was thinking about this whole thing last night. I think Bioware are victim of their own high goals. They could have strung this game out a lot more. In just about any other game, while you can choose different character types, you are forced along the same main story path as all the rest, usually after a small intro sequence. They could have just brought out 1 class story for each side, Imp and Pub (I'd go with JK and SW). 4 months later, brought out the next 2 classes, and so on. Rather than giving out what is essentially 8 games in one at the start, and spoiling us to expect this level of storyplay, and giving them more time to fix the initial bugs and balancing. It might even have helped hold on to a big chunk of the initial players.

 

All that's left now is people expecting 8 stories with every expansion, and complaining when they don't get it.

[robertthebard]

Was thinking about this whole thing last night. I think Bioware are victim of their own high goals. They could have strung this game out a lot more. In just about any other game, while you can choose different character types, you are forced along the same main story path as all the rest, usually after a small intro sequence. They could have just brought out 1 class story for each side, Imp and Pub (I'd go with JK and SW). 4 months later, brought out the next 2 classes, and so on. Rather than giving out what is essentially 8 games in one at the start, and spoiling us to expect this level of storyplay, and giving them more time to fix the initial bugs and balancing. It might even have helped hold on to a big chunk of the initial players.

 

All that's left now is people expecting 8 stories with every expansion, and complaining when they don't get it.

 

This is what I was alluding to as well. It's not that KotFE really did anything wrong, it's just not what we "grew up" on. Truth be told, it's going to be hard to duplicate that feat again, short of a story with 8 endings. The same things in RotHC, short of planet to actually work on, with a daily chain as well, are in KotFE. There are instances where your background comes into play, including dialog before it all gets going good with Marr. This is exactly the same as Makeb's dialog with the addendum that you talk to Saresh, instead of Marr at the end. Either faction winds up the same: The Pubs evacuate, and the Imps "fix" the planet. The major difference being that the Pubs don't know what you're doing as an Imp, whilst you are aware of what the Pubs are doing, more or less, as an Imp.

 

SoR was exactly the same story with Tython and Korriban juxtaposed depending on faction. The only thing we got on top of the story was Rishi and Yavin 4. I want to add an addendum here too: KotFE's story isn't finished yet, so we don't know what it is we're going to wind up with, all while comparing it to complete story arcs. For all we know, we could wind up with every bit of that, once it's run it's course, including FPs, daily areas and Ops, and likely some PvP maps.

 

To address another point brought up about the enemies we're fighting: They are the enemy we're facing. It's sort of like fighting Jedi on Tython, and complaining that there weren't any Sith. The enemy is "limited" by being the army of our enemy. It makes sense, narratively and logically, that that would be who we're fighting.

[BrotherJohn]

I see people trying to rationalize kotfe as BW not living up to what the game was vanilla. The thing there is your trying to compare apples and oranges really, it cant and should not be done. The issue with kotfe is the delivery of the content and the type of content being dished out monthly is well so underwhelming its really honestly pitiful. I have said it previously in this post and many others that what it comes down to is design and story direction of which the current team is very and I mean very poor at doing.

 

They were certainly pushed into a corner devolopment wise due to lagging returns. Yes people will try to quote this stock call or that posting but really its all fluff numbers that are bundled into the overall earnings of a very very large company. Remember if they are not bringing in money that special all encompassing license will get yanked. its called they need to show numbers or the other larger company yanks it. so back to game.

 

with that push to constrain costs and poor leadership we have kotfe. which would have been grand if they blocked it into 4 month content cycles. in those 4 months they push out their story. (which by the way thus far is horribly written) and a group FP (not even ops) they might have had better long term success. well you say thats a lot of work. no its not and you know it. what htey give you now for 14.99 is 25 minutes of video and 10 minuts of clicking buttons to progress through it.

 

so yeah korfe is content and no its not good, its shallow, bugged and often spammed with NPCs that slow and root or instant auto combat ot slow your pace down. The story is hollow to the core as its really just a means of recycling old companions over the course of a year and the story is so filled with holes and inconsistencies its really honestly sad to call star wars at this point. I mean the last chapter we got it even seemed the companion you were trying to recruit was tired of the new story content. yeah yeah yeah i will help your silly group if you help me kill a couple waves of these annoying npcs to free slaved people. he almost yawned while talking in cut scenes to me.

 

Hate my post or not its truth that even the best of swtor lovers knows deep inside the minds of all fanboys including this star wars nut.

[Codedrago]

Hate my post or not its truth that even the best of swtor lovers knows deep inside the minds of all fanboys including this star wars nut.

 

Truth? Many of the things you said are subjective. Trying to pass it on as a fact only dampens the discussion. Though your other points are debatable, though admittedly I do not have that much of an idea on the data to argue for or against them.

[robertthebard]

I see people trying to rationalize kotfe as BW not living up to what the game was vanilla. The thing there is your trying to compare apples and oranges really, it cant and should not be done. The issue with kotfe is the delivery of the content and the type of content being dished out monthly is well so underwhelming its really honestly pitiful. I have said it previously in this post and many others that what it comes down to is design and story direction of which the current team is very and I mean very poor at doing.

 

They were certainly pushed into a corner devolopment wise due to lagging returns. Yes people will try to quote this stock call or that posting but really its all fluff numbers that are bundled into the overall earnings of a very very large company. Remember if they are not bringing in money that special all encompassing license will get yanked. its called they need to show numbers or the other larger company yanks it. so back to game.

 

with that push to constrain costs and poor leadership we have kotfe. which would have been grand if they blocked it into 4 month content cycles. in those 4 months they push out their story. (which by the way thus far is horribly written) and a group FP (not even ops) they might have had better long term success. well you say thats a lot of work. no its not and you know it. what htey give you now for 14.99 is 25 minutes of video and 10 minuts of clicking buttons to progress through it.

 

so yeah korfe is content and no its not good, its shallow, bugged and often spammed with NPCs that slow and root or instant auto combat ot slow your pace down. The story is hollow to the core as its really just a means of recycling old companions over the course of a year and the story is so filled with holes and inconsistencies its really honestly sad to call star wars at this point. I mean the last chapter we got it even seemed the companion you were trying to recruit was tired of the new story content. yeah yeah yeah i will help your silly group if you help me kill a couple waves of these annoying npcs to free slaved people. he almost yawned while talking in cut scenes to me.

 

Hate my post or not its truth that even the best of swtor lovers knows deep inside the minds of all fanboys including this star wars nut.

 

Actually, the biggest problem I have is you assigning why I pay a sub. You are clueless to my motivations, and this post proves it point blank. I pay now for the same reasons I paid when I joined. Please refrain from "this is why I'm paying, so it's why everyone else is too". It detracts from anything legitimate you might have to say. You can hate my post if you like, but you have no idea why people are paying, barring yourself, and any other subs you may be paying. Since one of those isn't mine, I'd appreciate you not assigning "motive" to my paying a sub.

[DarthDymond]

I see people trying to rationalize kotfe as BW not living up to what the game was vanilla. The thing there is your trying to compare apples and oranges really, it cant and should not be done. The issue with kotfe is the delivery of the content and the type of content being dished out monthly is well so underwhelming its really honestly pitiful. I have said it previously in this post and many others that what it comes down to is design and story direction of which the current team is very and I mean very poor at doing.

 

They were certainly pushed into a corner devolopment wise due to lagging returns. Yes people will try to quote this stock call or that posting but really its all fluff numbers that are bundled into the overall earnings of a very very large company. Remember if they are not bringing in money that special all encompassing license will get yanked. its called they need to show numbers or the other larger company yanks it. so back to game.

 

with that push to constrain costs and poor leadership we have kotfe. which would have been grand if they blocked it into 4 month content cycles. in those 4 months they push out their story. (which by the way thus far is horribly written) and a group FP (not even ops) they might have had better long term success. well you say thats a lot of work. no its not and you know it. what htey give you now for 14.99 is 25 minutes of video and 10 minuts of clicking buttons to progress through it.

 

so yeah korfe is content and no its not good, its shallow, bugged and often spammed with NPCs that slow and root or instant auto combat ot slow your pace down. The story is hollow to the core as its really just a means of recycling old companions over the course of a year and the story is so filled with holes and inconsistencies its really honestly sad to call star wars at this point. I mean the last chapter we got it even seemed the companion you were trying to recruit was tired of the new story content. yeah yeah yeah i will help your silly group if you help me kill a couple waves of these annoying npcs to free slaved people. he almost yawned while talking in cut scenes to me.

 

Hate my post or not its truth that even the best of swtor lovers knows deep inside the minds of all fanboys including this star wars nut.

Oh look, another "I don't like this content, so if anyone else does enjoy it they must be lying or delusional" post - how novel.

 

Sorry, but there is no objective criteria for what makes a story 'good' or 'bad' - I am enjoying the KotFE story, just as honestly and genuinely as you are disliking it. I agree that the bugs are annoying, but I don't think they come close to pushing the overall experience into 'bad'. I don't find it "shallow", or "hollow". I don't think it falls short of being a worthy Star Wars story. You have different tastes / preferences for what stories you enjoy? That is perfectly fine.

 

I radically disagree with people who enjoy the Transformers movies, too. But I don't think they're lying or delusional when they say they like them - I just think we have different tastes.

Edited April 3, 2016 by DarthDymond

[lightSaberAddiCt]

The same goes for bounty hunters as well, they can pick merc and be a healer, or powertech and be a tank.

 

True, thanks Peter for adding that. I knew I was missing classes, but the point still remains. The issue with GF PuG pops is that people don't want to try a new class other then dps, that is what kills the pop time of GF, and usually, why people are putting together a pug on fleet for the GF daily. It is just easier then waiting for ever for the GF to pop.

 

You can't blame BW for the fact that GF is not popping, when it is the playerbase that is causing the issue was my general point. And the issue is, that MAYBE people should get out of their comfort zone, and try tanking or healing if they want a health GF rotation.

[MadCuzBad]

Was thinking about this whole thing last night. I think Bioware are victim of their own high goals. They could have strung this game out a lot more. In just about any other game, while you can choose different character types, you are forced along the same main story path as all the rest, usually after a small intro sequence. They could have just brought out 1 class story for each side, Imp and Pub (I'd go with JK and SW). 4 months later, brought out the next 2 classes, and so on. Rather than giving out what is essentially 8 games in one at the start, and spoiling us to expect this level of storyplay, and giving them more time to fix the initial bugs and balancing. It might even have helped hold on to a big chunk of the initial players.

 

All that's left now is people expecting 8 stories with every expansion, and complaining when they don't get it.

 

I never really thought about what you just said. And I have to admit I agree. Its like a real life event. You make all these plans to make this epic epic vacation and you plan it out so it will be just the best vacation ever. You go on vacation and this goes wrong and that goes wrong and what you were hoping to be epic because of your high expectations turn into poison. On the other hand you go on vacation. Everyone enjoys a vacation. You make no big plans. No high expectations. No big manifest of plans. Just a nice fun vacation no matter what happens. And it turns out to be an absolutely amazing vacation and you have nothing but enjoyment.

 

TLDR: Sometimes when you build something up to be huge and epic, you are building yourself up for a disappointment. On the other hand don't expect much and just have fun and things just seem to be a whole lot funner.

[Andryah]

Oh look, another "I don't like this content, so if anyone else does enjoy it they must be lying or delusional" post - how novel.

 

It never gets old does it? It's keeps the forum sliding around in negativity in perpetuity.

[Andryah]

Sure, comparing any of the expansions to the vanilla game isn't going to be useful. But I was comparing the 2.0 and 3.0 expansions to 4.0.

 

There is a trend with each expac (free or sold).... they keep trying new approaches in each one of them. While that is risky as can be seen by the blow-back from SWTOR traditionalists, it is also positive because it means the studio is analyzing where players spend time and where they don't and looking for ways to both increase player activity/attention as well as expand player activity/attention. GSF expac (which was free) is a good example of that. Not for me personally because if I want ship to ship combat... I'll play EVE Online.... but it was much asked for and for many it was a great boost in content for a while and added a new facet to PvP. But ultimately players got bored with it and studio analytics apparently told them further investment was not the best way to spend their resources.

 

The difficulty though is that MMOs represent a very large and broad player base and that makes it very hard to do interesting things for everyone. The studio appears to address this by focusing on one part of the game more intensely in each expac, at the expense of other areas. This is probably because they do an expac every year rather then every three years+ of some other MMOs. If they took the three year approach, they would then be pushing out larger expacs, for larger money cost, and impatient players would whine and complain for 3 years between expacs.

 

Personally, I think this studios approach of more frequent, more focused, but smaller expacs is the right approach for them. Since this is not a sub-only MMO, if a player does not like the focus of an expac, they can go preferred if they like and put more time and attention into other MMOs at the same time. With KotFE, they tried the chapter based linear release approach, and while it might work for some other MMOs.. I'm doubtful they will keep doing it with this one, given the number of player complaints. I'm more interested in seeing what they try next.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

You can't blame BW for the fact that GF is not popping, when it is the playerbase that is causing the issue was my general point. And the issue is, that MAYBE people should get out of their comfort zone, and try tanking or healing if they want a health GF rotation.

 

/Agree.

 

And cross server queues won't fix this either. All cross server, or megaserver, approaches will do is homogenize the imbalance of all servers into one giant dysfunctional player choice behavior driven imbalance.

 

DPS having to wait in queues for a long time has been a problem in all MMOs for years now. Whereas tanks and healers do not. Which is why in some MMOs, DPS players try to game the system by queuing as tank or healer and then when in group insist on going DPS.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Andryah

[MadCuzBad]

/Agree.

 

And cross server queues won't fix this either. All cross server, or megaserver, approaches will do is homogenize the imbalance of all servers into one giant dysfunctional player choice behavior driven imbalance.

 

DPS having to wait in queues for a long time has been a problem in all MMOs for years now. Whereas tanks and healers do not. Which is why in some MMOs, DPS players try to game the system by queuing as tank or healer and then when in group insist on going DPS.

 

I agree with what you are saying in reference to game imbalance. however them not having server to server ques have long ago created the snow ball effect particularly on the PVP server to become ghost towns. I have lived thru it too many times. Servers start getting light and the first people who pay the heaviest price are the people who rely on the que system. Player gets frustrated with long que times and either gives up playing or moves to a different server. Prior to the 90CC transfers massive amounts of players quit playing.

 

I totally agree with all the complaints about the games balance but server to server ques would have slowed down if not stopped the bleeding on many servers even going as far back as launch. I am sorry to say, but the lack of a server to server que system destroyed this game right from the get go. I am absolutely amazed this company launched a que based game without it. That little mistake has single handedly wrecked this game far beyond any other issue since launch. It was a major mistake. And I mean major.

[xordevoreaux]

--snip--

I am sorry to say, but the lack of a server to server que system destroyed this game right from the get go. I am absolutely amazed this company launched a que based game without it. That little mistake has single handedly wrecked this game far beyond any other issue since launch. It was a major mistake. And I mean major.

 

Obviously not wrecked and destroyed enough to leave. Most people encountering something, like a corpse, burned-down home, dead dog hit by a car, etc., etc., that has been 100% wrecked, 100% destroyed, would...find something more pleasant to experience. So, the conclusion, therefore, must be MCB doesn't think the game is 100% wrecked or destroyed. How odd, how illogical and insane, even, to hang onto something reeking of being dead, destroyed, and wrecked.

 

Regardless of this fine detail of whether MCB sees the game 80%, 90%, or 100% wrecked and destroyed, cross-server queues won't unwreck nor undestroy it for you.

 

I'll let you get back now to enjoying your wrecked and destroyed game. Enjoying something is the only reason to stay with something.

 

Oh but wait! MCB isn't enjoying the game. He's here in the forums, enjoying the bumps to his thread. Yeah. That's it. That's why he's still here.

[MadCuzBad]

Obviously not wrecked and destroyed enough to leave. Most people encountering something, like a corpse, burned-down home, dead dog hit by a car, etc., etc., that has been 100% wrecked, 100% destroyed, would...find something more pleasant to experience. So, the conclusion, therefore, must be MCB doesn't think the game is 100% wrecked or destroyed. How odd, how illogical and insane, even, to hang onto something reeking of being dead, destroyed, and wrecked.

 

Regardless of this fine detail of whether MCB sees the game 80%, 90%, or 100% wrecked and destroyed, cross-server queues won't unwreck nor undestroy it for you.

 

I'll let you get back now to enjoying your wrecked and destroyed game. Enjoying something is the only reason to stay with something.

 

Oh but wait! MCB isn't enjoying the game. He's here in the forums, enjoying the bumps to his thread. Yeah. That's it. That's why he's still here.

 

The game itself has died as a whole. However I am able to squeeze out some good PVP on Harbringer while the rest of the game dissolves. I am not foolish enough to believe that the storm will not hit Harbringer. I know I am on borrowed time but I will continue to play as long as the que times are tolerable. But I have to be honest its creeping up to the point where it might be time to head for the door. I would have to guess if things continue the direction they are now I will be unsubbing within a month or two. I hope it stays busy enough to drain 3 or 4 months of game play out of it, but I think that is a stretch.

 

I have been able to dodge the bullet so far by being able to transfer to a more populated server. But unfortunately Harbringer is the end of the rope. When it dies off I'm out of here. And I have been here since launch.

[Max_Killjoy]

Well, as many have pointed out before... dead to you =/= dead to all players in all ways.

[JeKoCZ]

/Agree.

 

And cross server queues won't fix this either. All cross server, or megaserver, approaches will do is homogenize the imbalance of all servers into one giant dysfunctional player choice behavior driven imbalance.

 

DPS having to wait in queues for a long time has been a problem in all MMOs for years now. Whereas tanks and healers do not. Which is why in some MMOs, DPS players try to game the system by queuing as tank or healer and then when in group insist on going DPS.

 

Those players are not playing the system. They're just *****. What's the point of faking being a tank/healer if as soon as flashpoint loads the group is still not balanced, therefore it leads to said group either disbanding immediately or getting wrecked at the first trash mob. They should change the group finder and prevent players from selecting any role that isn't theirs.

 

I've stopped running SM and HM FPs because of that. I'm a main tank, 10/15 of my characters are tanks, 3 are healers and only 2 are dps, yet I always encounter people who can't play their class or think they're smarter than us legit tanks and healers by faking a different role.