Game has died, Nowhere to go

[Andryah]

I agree with Brother John post.

 

Andryah 3.0 was a poor expansion also if you recall, people were unhappy back then too. so many bugs and problems it took them best part of the year to repair.

 

This was also true after 2.0 as well. See the trend?

 

I actually quit for about 6 months after 3.0... so I am fully aware of how bad it was.... more that it was badly handled and managed post patch, not that 3.0 was bad per se.

 

And then, they announce an expac and people start drifting back in, and for a few months the servers are ramped back up and then they ebb off again.

 

Also, I appreciate you providing your comments/contrasts of opinion without resorting to passive-aggressive dismissals like BrotherJohn did. Your comments are productive for open forum discussion... so I will do my best to match the spirit of your intent.

 

The european server I'm on is at it's lightest I've ever seen in 4 years.

My guild this time last year had 30+ active players, these days we're lucky to get 4 on at the same time.

I speak to the players on skype that don't log in and all pretty much got bored and annoyed at the 4.0 expansion or lack of expansion.

 

Are we talking a PvE server or a PvP server? It is relevant as many players who were on PvP servers in both EU and NA took advantage of the 90cc transfers to move to the higher populated PvE servers. This is also true for a couple of the PvE servers where people chose to abandon them for whatever reason and move to "the big one" in their region.

 

Now people can argue the sky is falling or everything is fine but the complete lack of community feedback by bioware is not helping anyone. They have to know people are unhappy. Not saying its the majority or minority but it is fair to say theres a great amount of SWTOR fans that don't like where the current direction the game is going in.

 

This has always been the case though... since launch really. AND... people have been declaring the game dead since January 2012. Yet it is still here. They have been declaring the studio to be inept, and deaf to players voices as well... yet the game is still here and still populated and active.

 

My point? the criticism is generally overblown, as usual, by a minority of vocal players in the forum who are pissed that the game is not being developed and maintained to their liking. They make it their personal mission to defame the studio and discredit anything and everything done or not done by Austin. It's not productive and it certainly does not get their needs met.

 

Everyone that comes of the forums kicking off are doing so because they care. Noone logs into a forum to have a moan if they dont give a **** about the game.

 

While this is generally true, it is definitely not true for every negative poster. Their tone, temperament, and objectivity make it pretty clear who is expressing objective concern and who is just looking to rip a new one over frustrations.

 

It would be nice to see bioware to show that they care as much because honestly it doesn't come across like they do right now.

 

While I understand what you are saying.. this really is a no win for the studio. No matter what they say or do, they will be criticized and derided by some of the player base over it. So the studio, unlike the forum, has to conduct itself in a mature manner and put their efforts and resources where they believe they benefit the most players. They will never please everyone for sure, nor should they IMO. Please note: I am not defending the studio, I am simply looking at this realistically.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

no. bioware abandoned the long time sub playerbase that liked challenging story, ops, even pvp content.

 

That sounds like role playing as victim to me.

 

Sorry, I don't feel abandoned by the studio, even though this MMO has never been everything I wanted it to be. In fact, no studio has ever abandoned me.

 

Whereas I have abandoned studios that provide MMO content that I simply do not find appealing.

[Andryah]

I've levelled 2 healers (one of whom I switch back to DPS because I didn't like the way the Trooper healing played), and I ran a Vig Guardian swapping between tank and DPS as the mood struck me. It's probably easier now than it used to be.

 

Which is why I said "efficiently." In levelling PvE, a tank or a healer is slower to complete missions that a DPS, and there just isn't that much call to be a tank or healer in levelling content. Also, DPS is seen (not without reason) as the "easiest" role in group content, so a lot of people level their first character as DPS because of that perception. It's not a "forced to" thing, it's an "encouraged to" thing. Also, of the 24 specs in 8 ACs and 4 classes, there are 3 primary tanks and 3 primary healers, the rest are primary DPS. 2 ACs have only DPS specs at all, no off-role capability (Sentinel and Gunslinger). Which is why I think being able to switch ACs (as well as spec) would open up options for more characters to be used in more roles.

 

One of the things I really do enjoy about this MMO is that I can roll any class, and have the ability to spec for leveling and then respec for role later. I generally always level a character DPS, and will then switch to healer or tank (depending on class) at the end. It is so much better then many other MMOs.

 

As for DPS being too abundant... yeah... they are.. and it exacerbates the challenges of PuG grouping... but this has been a problem in most MMOs since ... forever. It is what it is.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Andryah

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Exactly.

 

Speaking of GTN I note my sales aren't down which I find a great indicator of server health so seems there are still a lot of people buying up millions and millions worth of CM items from the GTN, this wouldn't be the case if it were already as dead as you proclaim.

 

Going to have to call Bull **** on this, Sales on GTN are way slower and prices are higher then they were 2 months ago. I was, and still am a GTN buyer and seller and you can tell its changed drastically.

 

Also it sounds like you dont give a **** one way or the other so you are just Trolling and have lost any credibility as far as I can tell.

 

Still making over 20 million a day ... sales are still good. Guess you're just doing it wrong or playing a low population server.

 

My point is I don't care if your server is dieing, it doesn't affect me and you can move to a populated server. Thus from that perspective the game isn't dead what so ever ...

 

I'm not beyond a bit of doom n gloom about the future of the game as it currently stands but to say it's dead now, as some people are eluding to, is rather ridiculous.

[Firolas]

Andryah

You cant claim bioware releases expansions every year full of issues and problems that it causes people to drift out the game constantly and think thats okay and wont come back and bite them on the butt.

Population on servers will increase for all the expansions but if the people leave in droves after each one due to many reasons there's no guarantee they will return.

If anything the servers should be looking good for the first 6 months of the expansions release each year not the opposite way around.

You can only get away with that for so long.

 

I'm on a PVE european server.

Now I havent counted numbers or compared from previous years, it just feels and looks less. Visiting planets/fleet at peak times and seeing less online. The guild I'm in has deteriorated and it's for mainly the same reasons.

 

Now to be absolutely clear (to everyone) I do not think the game dead or dying.

I do think the game is in a bad state.

I do believe people saying everything is wonderful are completely wrong.

People should vent on the forums also (true some go overboard) but criticism can be a good thing.

Think the biggest issue we have is bioware go 100mph one way with everything they do which is never good for general population.

 

I also agree its impossible to please everyone but as a mmo they should be at least look like their trying.

Drop some teasers of content coming in the future, hell it doesn't even need to be released this year and no I don't mean the new pvp warzone/arena or that pve tournament. Something new, different, something to get people excited about. New world event/ops/dailies area/ mini games(pod racing)new playable species/new class's.

 

Its Star Wars there's millions of things that could be brought in.

 

Just feel like they should do more community wise and the doomsayers would be less vocal.

[IanArgent]

One of the things I really do enjoy about this MMO is that I can roll any class, and have the ability to spec for leveling and then respec for role later. I generally always level a character DPS, and will then switch to healer or tank (depending on class) at the end. It is so much better then many other MMOs.

 

As for DPS being too abundant... yeah... they are.. and it exacerbates the challenges of PuG grouping... but this has been a problem in most MMOs since ... forever. It is what it is.

 

You can respec - as long as you didn't choose a Sentinel or Gunslinger (or the Imp equivalents). And the other classes are constrained as to whether you can swap to tank or healer, depending on which AC you chose at level 10.

 

I love that you can respec (though field respec is a little goofy to me); I just wish you could respec your AC as well.

[MadCuzBad]

You can respec - as long as you didn't choose a Sentinel or Gunslinger (or the Imp equivalents). And the other classes are constrained as to whether you can swap to tank or healer, depending on which AC you chose at level 10.

 

I love that you can respec (though field respec is a little goofy to me); I just wish you could respec your AC as well.

 

Respecing is not gonna fix anything. The game core is broken without server to server que system.

[Genada]

I play Star Trek Online. A game that has been dying from the moment it came out with the worst mmo launch in history imo.

 

Since it's came out it's had huge problems. Been sold to a different company and had every problem you can think of yet it's still going. It keeps going tho, with real improvements. They keep putting out new content and new expansions. They keep working on improving the game with a very limited staff.

 

One of the things that STO did that I would really like to see SWTOR do is engage with the community and work with it to improve the game. I think everyone that plays and the devs themselves want the game to do well. We all want to see it improve and it would help to lessen the forum outrage we see quite a bit if they would do so imo.

[MadCuzBad]

I play Star Trek Online. A game that has been dying from the moment it came out with the worst mmo launch in history imo.

 

Since it's came out it's had huge problems. Been sold to a different company and had every problem you can think of yet it's still going. It keeps going tho, with real improvements. They keep putting out new content and new expansions. They keep working on improving the game with a very limited staff.

 

One of the things that STO did that I would really like to see SWTOR do is engage with the community and work with it to improve the game. I think everyone that plays and the devs themselves want the game to do well. We all want to see it improve and it would help to lessen the forum outrage we see quite a bit if they would do so imo.

 

SWG did too. It was nothing for the developers of the game to come on the forums and talk with the community. It happened all the time. If you turned a ticket in it would be nothing to have it answered within 2 hours. Several times thru the years I would have a GM contact me in game and have a discussion with him thru tells. I played SWG from start to finish. And the entire time they kept the development team very close to its players. Always.

 

I have played this game since launch also. But during the whole time I have played this game I have no clue where the development team is. I have turned in tickets that took weeks to get a response to. I have never gotten used to this. I have thought and continue to think it is disgusting and has always put a bitter taste in my mouth.

[IanArgent]

Respecing is not gonna fix anything. The game core is broken without server to server que system.

 

Does PvP even take account of trinity role for queuing? This was a suggestion for that other group activity in the game that everyone says is dying.

[MadCuzBad]

Does PvP even take account of trinity role for queuing? This was a suggestion for that other group activity in the game that everyone says is dying.

 

What?

[robertthebard]

I've levelled 2 healers (one of whom I switch back to DPS because I didn't like the way the Trooper healing played), and I ran a Vig Guardian swapping between tank and DPS as the mood struck me. It's probably easier now than it used to be.

 

Which is why I said "efficiently." In levelling PvE, a tank or a healer is slower to complete missions that a DPS, and there just isn't that much call to be a tank or healer in levelling content. Also, DPS is seen (not without reason) as the "easiest" role in group content, so a lot of people level their first character as DPS because of that perception. It's not a "forced to" thing, it's an "encouraged to" thing. Also, of the 24 specs in 8 ACs and 4 classes, there are 3 primary tanks and 3 primary healers, the rest are primary DPS. 2 ACs have only DPS specs at all, no off-role capability (Sentinel and Gunslinger). Which is why I think being able to switch ACs (as well as spec) would open up options for more characters to be used in more roles.

 

I used my SP experience to learn the basics of the different styles of tanking. A PT plays a lot differently from a Jugg, which plays a lot different than an Assassin. I leveled my primary tanks, as tanks, well before 12x XP was a thing. The only ones I'm currently running, in fact, a Jugg, Assassin, and Shadow. My PT didn't make it to 50 before I got bored with the whole idea of PT and deleted it for another DPS jugg for story things I wanted to do differently. Playing Tank/DPS, I didn't feel like I leveled any slower than I did on pure DPS toons. I'm sure there were some time differences, but it was likely only an hour, maybe, according to /play.

 

It's also important to understand that my leveling process then also included running FPs on those toons when the guild was looking to run a FP, or someone needed help with one, or running any Ops that may have been available. I didn't get to cap before I started running this content, but ran it all the way up, and there were no "Tactical FPs" then. So roles mattered, and I'm a cheap bastard, so I wasn't going to be swapping between roles on a single toon. This, of course, also fed my altaholism. People's experiences will, of course, vary. But I played my ACs the way I planned to play the toons, and this gave me an observable insight into the queue times for the PvE content that I was running. I gave the example above, and the forums have been littered with threads about needing the x server queues based on those very same times for almost as long as the OP has been declaring the game dead, 2012.

[DarkJediMage]

hk weapon set for an example of either a low budget or untalented dev staff desperately holding on and trying to milk the game. there is no electrostaff in that weapon set. come on. if the dev team can't even create an hk electrosaff or create it on schedule, there is some wrong with the talent or the size of the team or both. i know it is petty. but my point is a sign of the dev team unable to maintain the game. same thing with the monthly hourly long chapter content. it is a hold-on. i bet you that new 1 pvp and 1 arena maps were the easiest to make and they will probably have the bugs. Edited April 2, 2016 by DarkJediMage

[aeterno]

hk weapon set for an example of either a low budget or untalented dev staff desperately holding on and trying to milk the game. there is no electrostaff in that weapon set. come on. if the dev team can't even create an hk electrosaff or create it on schedule, there is some wrong with the talent or the size of the team or both. i know it is petty. but my point is a sign of the dev team unable to maintain the game. same thing with the monthly hourly long chapter content. it is a hold-on. i bet you that new 1 pvp and 1 arena maps were the easiest to make and they will probably have the bugs.

 

You know it's OK to just say the development resources spent are in your opinion wasted. What's with this pathological need to spray paint "maintenance mode" over TOR? There is clearly a few operations worth of dev time going into KOTFE and its features. They just choose to do what they've been doing over what you think they ought be doing. This coping mechanism you've developed for the rejection is quite humorous. Ya, monthly content updates and no HK electrostaff are clearly the sign of a dev team unable to maintain the game, just milking it for the last pennies before the curtain fall...

Edited April 2, 2016 by aeterno

[DarkJediMage]

You know it's OK to just say the development resources spent are in your opinion wasted. What's with this pathological need to spray paint "maintenance mode" over TOR? There is clearly a few operations worth of dev time going into KOTFE and its features. They just choose to do what they've been doing over what you think they ought be doing. This coping mechanism you've developed for the rejection is quite humorous. Ya, monthly content updates and no HK electrostaff are clearly the sign of a dev team unable to maintain the game, just milking it for the last pennies before the curtain fall...

well done defending a pathetic, sub losing bioware dev team who can't develop or fix the simplest things.

Oh and here is coping - i will let my one time sub run out, delete my payment method, uninstall the game, and tell my friends and family to avoid this game for the problems and the cupcaking. don't even respond. this is my last post. until they get a new development team and a new direction, the game is trash to me now. have fun playing in trash.

Edited April 2, 2016 by DarkJediMage

[Andryah]

well done defending a pathetic, sub losing bioware dev team who can't develop or fix the simplest things

 

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and taking your statements at face value..... then WHY ARE YOU HERE?

Edited April 2, 2016 by Andryah

[MadCuzBad]

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and taking your statements at face value..... then WHY ARE YOU HERE?

 

Is that all you people can keep saying? I mean over and over and over and over and over and over with this crap.

 

We are obviously here because we care because if we didn't we would not waste 2 seconds on these forums. Find a new line because "If you don't like the game then leave" is not only old, but to keep beating that dead horse if ridicules.

 

Get over it. We are here to stay. So maybe if you don't like the fact that we are here, maybe you should leave. Did you ever think about that kid?

Edited April 3, 2016 by MadCuzBad

[Max_Killjoy]

Asking people who like the game but have a complaint "why are you here?" is a cheap shot and a cheap dodge.

 

Asking the same of someone who openly states that the game and dev team are worthless trash is a rational inquiry.

[MotorCityMan]

Combining the republic and imperial story lines into one. Going through a maze killing 3 mobs over and over again hardly qualifies as "content".

 

The story is nice, but it's not repeatable content.

 

If you don't offer your customers anything, they aren't gonna stick around.

 

Not really the devs fault. If corporate (EA) doesn't wanna spend the money, then they can only do so much.

Edited April 3, 2016 by MotorCityMan

[MadCuzBad]

Combining the republic and imperial story lines into one. Going through a maze killing 3 mobs over and over again hardly qualifies as "content".

 

The story is nice, but it's not repeatable content.

 

If you don't offer your customers anything, they aren't gonna stick around.

 

Not really the devs fault. If corporate (EA) doesn't wanna spend the money, then they can only do so much.

 

I noticed your screen name. Did you ever play MCO? If you did I have a huge question for you because I keep asking myself the same question I will ask you.

[Andryah]

Get over it. We are here to stay. So maybe if you don't like the fact that we are here, maybe you should leave. Did you ever think about that kid?

 

Hey pal.. I'm not the one spewing hate and name calling at the dev team here. Besides, I was not talking to you, and I am pretty sure the person I WAS talking to does not need you to jump in and "save them" from a sincere and rational question. Also, I am not a kid, so learn some maturity.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Combining the republic and imperial story lines into one. Going through a maze killing 3 mobs over and over again hardly qualifies as "content".

 

Well, that pretty much makes ALL content = not-content then. Not just this MMO, but in all MMOs, because at the end of the day.. in some variation or another.. you will be following the same routes and killing the same mobs over and over again if you repeat content.. be it a solo mission or an Operation..

 

The story is nice, but it's not repeatable content.

 

I'm not a big fan of repeating the same mission arcs over and over again either.... but some people do in fact enjoy that. So I think it would be more accurate for you to state that it's "not repeatable content for YOU". I certainly do not begrudge any player over what content they like or dislike... and I don't feel the need to label content based on my personal bias.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Andryah

[higginsjf]

Hope that their sever shards are coming and with that all sever have the PVP/PVE side to them. I well at some point there free CC to be made on them if you got a clean sever. But on the NA sever not so much cause 4 yrs playing and have tired out the pvp severs and still have toon I can play now that I can hit the PVE shard and play. The big reason is players I used to play with left back last year after the SWC when no word on the new pvp map or word there would be. Just like how some have said so in the last few months cause they got new OPs or flash points. SO it 100% player base but that broken up between the hard core PVP players the Hard Core PVE side and guys like me play it all cause its worth conquest point in one way or another. Just have to have hope if the shards and just a sever name well bring fresh players to help the q. Not all of use like getting beat to the ground all day long cause one side seams to win all the time cause of players levels vs our level even with the level locks on plants higher levels still got more skills to use vs the few I have.

[Khevar]

I'm not a big fan of repeating the same mission arcs over and over again either.... but some people do in fact enjoy that.

I gather than the person you quoted was specifically referring to KotFE?

 

If so, I would say that the multiple playthroughs of the chapters in 4.0 have definitely presented a significant lack of variety, which heavily impacts "repeatability". Particularly when compared to previous expansions. Even setting aside that RotHC had 2 stories for each faction, even SoR had the "class story" nods, and a decent amount of flavor dialog that rewarded the player with multiple alts.

 

KotFE, for all that it is a well-told story, is a step down in terms of "variety". I'm personally more enjoying a re-run of the vanilla class stories -- and yet I have no draw to do a third run through of the 4.0 content.

 

In addition to the lack of dialog variety, there is also a significant lack of interesting combat encounters. Something that every previous expansion did much better, IMO.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Khevar

[Andryah]

In addition to the lack of dialog variety, there is also a significant lack of interesting combat encounters. Something that every previous expansion did much better, IMO.

 

I would very much like the next expac to be based on a wide open planet (similar to Tatooine in terms of openness). Ever since Makeb.. I loath the mystery rabbit trails you have to seek out to get from point A to B. Give us some territory to maneuver in and enjoy and spread out the encounters a bit more.. and give us good lighting too.