Easier fix of the Premade vs Pug exploit ?

[BowtieJones]

Once solo ranked has WZs I'll be there. But you won't be ...

 

I absolutely agree with you there.Well, I don't know the guy you were replying to, so it's very possible, and even probable that he would continue to queue solo ranked if it included wz.

 

I posted about this last week, and I'm starting to feel like the lone doofus shouting from the mountain tops and into the wind since I seem to never get a response aside from sarcasm. Lots of views. No discussion though.

 

Regs should be left how it is. Team ranked should be left how it is.

 

Solo ranked should include warzones. Boom. Problem solved. Yes, you may end up with lots of arenas, but that's a population problem. Advertise in gen chat and get people to queue up.

 

Never want to face a double premade? Solo ranked. Want to play with people equal to your skill level? Solo Ranked.

Want to group with your friends, but not play exclusively arena? Regs. etc etc etc.

[foxmob]

Even solo queuing it's not often I see an enemy team without at least a 2 person group, so it's not that it's always like double 4-mans vs 8 pugs (yes, I'm horribly exaggerating the point like every person in here arguing against them). That being said, there are also a few common sense things that have been said numerous times in here about premades. Like a premade does not guarantee skill. A premade does not guarantee voice chat. A premade does not guarantee an 8-man or even a 4-man group. A premade does not guarantee that their are no premades on the other side. You would think, playing on one of the heavier populated servers, that I would see more of these things everyone is complaining about especially this que-syncing 8-man regs smasher group that is the bane of every anti-premade'er in here, but if I were to be honest, it's not all that often I see more than a 3-man group. It makes me wonder how these servers with such lower population can continuously find these 8-man groups. :confused:r.

are you still on JC? I have toons spread out over JC, Harb and TEH. hell, I just pulled one out of JM cuz it's dead and the new server system makes the PVP distinction moot.

 

anyway, my point is that JC really is super watered down right now. there are some great players still kicking around, but trust me, the number of high caliber premades is significantly higher on Harb and noticeably higher on TEH.

 

Harb is so bad that I don't bother queuing pub unless I can grp with someone from guild -- and nobody's ever on! lol

 

anyway, I'm not against the right to premade 4m. the superQs annoy me but w/e. there ought to be better matchmaking. I kinda wish they'd just do away with regs. then you either grp rank or solo rank. but you'd have to open that up to the WZs too. it's not like most of the great players don't do regs. I mean, I rarely see cap or something, but instead of creating new and different ways to split queues, maybe we should just merge them and remove the leaderboards once you get past the top 25 or 50 per server?

[-BlackDragon-]

Not another one of these threads..... and I guess premades are an exploit now...

[Physrho]

First I'd like to say that I rarely ever play in a premade WZ group. I've found that yes, premade groups have a higher chance of success. But I've also found that playing against better skilled/prepared groups has made be a more deadly pvper in general. And guess what? Once I started to improve my game on a personal level, people started asking me to group up. And azzes get owned.

 

My question is what is wrong with that? Is it so wrong to try and increase your chances of winning? Isn't that the point of PvP, doing what it takes to best you competition?

 

Stop whining and expecting a win to be handed to you on a silver platter. Pay your dues, take yer lumps, learn from your mistakes and soon enough you'll find yourself at the tip of the spear.

[Bobbafatter]

Premade vs premade are the best matches... I agree that if there's two premades in queue, they should face each other. What I don't agree with is making one premade wait an hour until anther premade decides to queue.

 

Bobbafatter, let's be honest, you're only butt hurt cause you're really bad and need to be facing 8 bad pugs to even have a chance. If you were any good you'd be carrying your team rather than QQ'ing on the forums.

 

If you suck so bad you need a premade to tackle the solo content, why do you even play ?

Edited March 11, 2016 by Bobbafatter

[J_McSkill]

If you suck so bad you need a premade to tackle the solo content, why do you even play ?

 

Your IQ is obviously very low so I'm not going to waste much time trying to explain how your response makes absolutely no sense. You're either very young or have some type of learning disability so I'm not going to rip you apart or embarrass you regardless of how rude your comment was.

[Bobbafatter]

Your IQ is obviously very low so I'm not going to waste much time trying to explain how your response makes absolutely no sense. You're either very young or have some type of learning disability so I'm not going to rip you apart or embarrass you regardless of how rude your comment was.

 

QQ more ... and maybe l2p so you won't need a premade.

Edited March 11, 2016 by Bobbafatter

[knowmyname]

Went up against some premades and double premades tonight. Good challenge. Won some and lost some but still a good time.

 

Nothing wrong with premades.

 

Though it's the war zone tourists that spin me up. Had one tonight. Didn't do a thing. Looked at his gear, starter insta-60 gear, as a level 65. This is your issue. Not premades.

Edited March 11, 2016 by knowmyname

[foxmob]

I think the token 60 gear is 188? you really don't wanna take the next step up (story mode greens) b/c 190 is the sweet spot for pve gear in WZs iirc. it's not a big deal to be in those blues. I think I had a handful of them with my token 60. didn't matter much. still effective.

[lavatsunami]

And the insults commence. you seem awfully against this "making friends" thing. whatever that is.

 

It's not an insult to state a fact. Dumb is just another word for illogical. Also, you completely dodged my counter argument. Presumably, because there is no counter to it.

 

Also, I've made tons of friends in this game. But the point of an MMO isn't to make friends unless that's what you want to specifically do.

[Yorioko]

The best, quickest and easiest solution is actually this.

 

Read up on the term MMO, then check out the concept of grouping up/teamwork

Then utilize a feature in the game called "chat"

 

This feature is very very good for things like getting to Gether a group, PLANNING a pvp session, establish team roles, etc etc.....or in other words...become Premade.

 

Actually ANY and ALL NON PREMADE makes no logical sense

 

Solution to the premade problem, team up and plan ( aka be premade)

Viola! and simple!

 

 

*** Petting my self on the head and grinning form pride of my own brilliance ***

[lavatsunami]

The best, quickest and easiest solution is actually this.

 

Read up on the term MMO, then check out the concept of grouping up/teamwork

Then utilize a feature in the game called "chat"

 

This feature is very very good for things like getting to Gether a group, PLANNING a pvp session, establish team roles, etc etc.....or in other words...become Premade.

 

Actually ANY and ALL NON PREMADE makes no logical sense

 

Solution to the premade problem, team up and plan ( aka be premade)

Viola! and simple!

 

 

*** Petting my self on the head and grinning form pride of my own brilliance ***

 

I bet no one has ever thought of this before.

[Yorioko]

I bet no one has ever thought of this before.

 

LOL you know from the "sound" of things on these forums I honestly think nobody has

[lavatsunami]

LOL you know from the "sound" of things on these forums I honestly think nobody has

 

Honestly though, if this game wasn't so terrible about doing cross server, you could do ranked 8v8, arena, and regs and have no issues.

 

Premades are a different ball game and there are plenty of people that play casually. If you think about sports leagues, there are always divisions. A, top tier, B, middle, C bottom, etc. That's for a reason. Everyone has fun differently. You're not going to put a C tier person against an A tier team.

 

In essence, that's all these people are asking for. I think ranked 8v8 would solve the issue, but guess what, you can't have ranked 8v8 without cross server or it will die like regular ranked has.

[Yorioko]

Honestly though, if this game wasn't so terrible about doing cross server, you could do ranked 8v8, arena, and regs and have no issues.

 

Premades are a different ball game and there are plenty of people that play casually. If you think about sports leagues, there are always divisions. A, top tier, B, middle, C bottom, etc. That's for a reason. Everyone has fun differently. You're not going to put a C tier person against an A tier team.

 

In essence, that's all these people are asking for. I think ranked 8v8 would solve the issue, but guess what, you can't have ranked 8v8 without cross server or it will die like regular ranked has.

 

Yeah I can see how such a thing would improve pvp AND as a bonus to me and the like, A better posibility of a sounder less destructive envirnment.

 

However to dive into your comparison here.

 

The SWOR situation is this.

 

A level teams frequntly pvp as a team, they are division A and they will rule against most that are NOT division A

So then we have the situation where many Division A players decide to leave the staduim ( ranked pvp ) and they go to the park, here you have anyone playing, form old people to todlers, none of them division A, hardly even divison Z on most.

YET still for an unkown and mysterious reaon the Division A player NEVER teams up with other division A player, but ALLWAYS teams up with anyone that are anything other then Division A players, and most often then not they re Division E or F, and then the thing happes that MUST and WILL happen, the Division A team now beats the mied divison team.

 

So then the Mixed division team that JUST AS EASILY can at any given time, get Division A memebers and form a division A team and then have a fai match, in stead CHOOSE not to then complain how unfair it is tht the other Division A team is EXPLOITING the fact that they are the best in the park since they are a Division A team and not a mix of divisions A through Z.

 

There is NO exploit regarding Premades, there is only a refusal of the non premades to propperly team up

[TheLunarTick]

Yeah I think it's important to remember that there's never going to be a perfect system for matching groups up against each other. When I'm cueing by myself generally I hop around on different toons on different sides looking for a good match up and then roll with it when I do. If I'm cueing for pub side 65's and I get in two premades either on the winning side or the losing side, maybe I'll jump on my midbie marauder and give it a whirl. Or maybe my lowbie guardian. Sometimes I'll find some good balanced matches and sometimes I won't. That's the way it's always been with online games though. It's easier to go with the flow sometimes. Relish the victories and learn from the defeats. I think it's fair to say that if the only thing that's going to make you happy is doing a specific tier on a specific server with a specific toon then yeah you are going to have to find a good supporting team most likely.

 

Sadly the PvP servers aren't doing good though. Let's just slap that on the table as a blatant fact that nobody can argue with. If you want to do PvP in swtor at least on a US server, join a PvE server or an RP server. No sense in pointing fingers, both the community and the devs share some of the blame I would say. The question is whether or not everyone is going to come together and welcome in new players or not. Do we want a PvP community or don't we? It's not entirely up to some guy you will never meet to create some miracle system that always makes everyone happy. I think that the PvP community itself could do a little bit more in the way of welcoming people, or at least not telling new players to quit playing because they suck.

 

If anything could be done to help with this problem I'd say have a seperate cue where things like gear, stims and datacrons don't give an advantage, and everyone is on a level playing field. I'd say have two tiers which would make it easier for people to find groups and only have it for lowbies and midbies so that you don't devide the 65 cues which I think are currently the most balanced and have the most frequent pops. Also some people will be a little stronger because they have more skills to use but that's easy for people to understand. Newer or casual players that don't have all their datacrons and craft purple gear for their lowbie smug will have a better chance of making a meaningful contribution to their team while learning the finer points of the game. Then when they are making new toons or are hungry for a bigger challenge they will go play with the big boys.

 

Right now if you are in the mood to do wz's, and you only have toons in the lowbie bracket for example, and one of the factions is dominating that bracket, then there's really nothing you can do about finding a more balanced game to join. You can either suck it up and hopelessly get farmed or do something else like go do some PvE or... go play another game. I'm a swtor die hard but obviously not everyone is and I'm just trying to think like someone who is new to the game and what would make someone who could be an asset to the PvP community in the future stick with it longer. As much as I enjoy the fruits of my labor having worked the last few years to build up my toons and my legacy I also know that nobody is going to pay Bioware for the privilege of getting pummeled by me over and over again. Just some things to think about.

Edited March 12, 2016 by TheLunarTick

[aerockyul]

Sadly the PvP servers aren't doing good though. Let's just slap that on the table as a blatant fact that nobody can argue with. If you want to do PvP in swtor at least on a US server, join a PvE server or an RP server. No sense in pointing fingers, both the community and the devs share some of the blame I would say. The question is whether or not everyone is going to come together and welcome in new players or not. Do we want a PvP community or don't we? It's not entirely up to some guy you will never meet to create some miracle system that always makes everyone happy. I think that the PvP community itself could do a little bit more in the way of welcoming people, or at least not telling new players to quit playing because they suck

 

That's the part a lot of people don't acknowledge when they bash Bioware for not caring about the pvp community. Why should they at that point? (and your use of the word "little" is inappropriately understated can we stop trying to spare the feelings of trolls and jerks who are doing everything they can to actively push out players from the community?)

[Neoforcer]

If you suck so bad you need a premade to tackle the solo content, why do you even play ?

Because pvp is not solo content what you want is solo only warezone for that pick up you copy od world of warcraft be sure to relize thye dumd down the game do to people like you QQ it why slowly it doping in subs.

 

 

QQ more ... and maybe l2p so you won't need a premade.

 

QQ less learn to be socialize in a massively multiplayer online game.

 

Yes i premade but i also solo que and i do not mind going against premade why i like a fight make my skill increase even more. Even with premades it takes them for ever to kill me that i end up loling every time. This game should never cater to QQ over any thing...

[Alericus]

I don't get the hostility towards splitting pugs versus groups. Of course the truth is baby stomping is what its really about, its easy kills and the groups know it they just don't have the cajones to admit it.

 

There's three things that are killing pvp:

1)population is dropping on certain servers, yes cross server would solve this but BW says they will never do it.

The answer is with the population dropping, soon there will be one server. problem solved

 

2)pugs versus groups, most pugs are under 2018 expertise, and the groups should be 2018.

ranked requires 2018 but regs do not. Perhaps just make 2018 a basic requirement for lvl 65 pvp, its not that hard to obtain and once you do you are in ranked no questions or whining accepted. So while you can't enter ranked unless you are 2018, you could make it so 2018 cant enter regs too. that way the pain is equally shared and no one group gets an advantage.

 

3)pvp mechanics and class balance, a never ending struggle of satisfying the elite epeen and the beginner who for some odd reason don't stay on as a player while their face stomped into the ground each and every match, can't imagine why they avoid pvp and thus reduce the numbers that que..

 

All this is musing and you can argue amongst yourselves or call me names I don't usually come back since this is all just navel gazing since BW isn't about to lift one finger to do anything about this issue.

[Bobbafatter]

Because pvp is not solo content what you want is solo only warezone for that pick up you copy od world of warcraft be sure to relize thye dumd down the game do to people like you QQ it why slowly it doping in subs.

 

 

 

 

QQ less learn to be socialize in a massively multiplayer online game.

 

Yes i premade but i also solo que and i do not mind going against premade why i like a fight make my skill increase even more. Even with premades it takes them for ever to kill me that i end up loling every time. This game should never cater to QQ over any thing...

 

Quit your QQ, it has no place in a quality thread like this one.

 

And then, what has a bunch of bads' stacking of FOTM classes and PuGs farming to do with being social ? I find that rather antisocial, especially since it is killing the queues.

 

Ranked WZs were there for a reason, however the premade losers decided they rather farm PuGs than play ranked. If that's not antisocial I don't know what would be. BW had it more or less right from the beginning but it was the community that failed.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Bobbafatter

[AlrikFassbauer]

And then, what has a bunch of bads' stacking of FOTM classes and PuGs farming to do with being social ? I find that rather antisocial, especially since it is killing the queues.

 

I agree very much, however, it often isn't just "bads" stacking up with FOTM farming PUGs -

- to my horror I often find "goods" doing this anti-social thing.

 

And this article opened my eyes on the matter : https://www.academia.edu/6016545/Trolls_just_want_to_have_fun

 

For some anti-social kinds of players, destroying other is just fun.

They do it, because it is fun for them.

[TheLunarTick]

 

All this is musing and you can argue amongst yourselves or call me names I don't usually come back since this is all just navel gazing since BW isn't about to lift one finger to do anything about this issue.

 

Well as you stated many of the server populations are low right now and that is going to inherently limit any changes that can be made. Any changes that could separate people who would otherwise be cueing for the same thing might cause each of their respective cues to not fire at all. That's one detraction even from the solution I had mentioned previously. When I look at the forum posts and participate in the wz's on both sides and all tiers, and try to simplify the problem I see it like this: The elete or experienced players don't want the new/casual players on their team and the new/casual players don't want to always go up against Chuck Norris and the opposing faction's A team. Realistically I don't see why experienced players who know the game mechanics need all these extra legacy and gear perks against someone in a lowbie wz who just started playing. This is like making it so that hard mode flashpoints and solo mode flashpoints are the only PvE option, and when you are first starting you can only do hard modes, then when you are more experienced you only get into solo mode flashpoints. That's kind of summing up how premades are defining the wz scene for the average player.

Edited March 12, 2016 by TheLunarTick

[Yorioko]

Never was any exploits.

 

There is something called MMO, it is a type of Online games where people GROUP UP, usually, and to stuff togheter.

Is very very common, this group thing, so is no exploit.

 

Premades don't exist as a problem, group up and viola...........MMO system fixed the NON ISSUE

[TheLunarTick]

Well I logged into one of my toons on Jung Ma today and tried to form up a premade lowbie wz group. Within five minutes I had a group going and we rekt ppl. Anyone think that the second part happened? Of course it didn't I knew before I was done typing my password that I had a better chance of being hit by a meteor than finding a tank, a healer, and another dps to group up with me to do lowbie wz's on Jung Ma. You say find a group but if there's eight people cueing and four of them group up how does that change anything? And if nobody is cueing on a PvP server how is that a non issue?

 

Premades aren't an exploit though I can agree with that. This is just the way it is right now. It's kind of up to the community to regulate itself atm which is fine with me. The community needs to decide if it's going to take responsibility for itself though. If people need to group up in order to have fun, then invite them to a group. Show them how much fun it can be and tell them about things like datacrons and augments and skill rotations. Many people don't understand how much of a difference that can make. Even tweaking your graphics settings and computer hardware can make a big difference for some people but they don't know that.

 

I love wz's and I love swtor. Been a sub for quite some time now. Done a lot of wz's and I want to do a lot more. I want to give the developers a good reason to make more wz's and PvP content. I don't know what difference premades have made in the overall decline of the PvP servers in general but I know there are a lot of people frustrated with them. I don't know if their gripe is warranted but I at least sympathize and try to see their point.

[knowmyname]

Don't even need a trinity to get a premade.

 

Pugged solo and WZ popped. Arena. 2 people quit against a premade. 3 vs 4 and we won.

Not all premades are good or even a win.

 

If you know your class, how to defend and defeat other classes, things get easy. When your team knows their role then the premade doesn't matter much. Especially when seasoned players end up solo and on the same team. Develop a plan that suits all play styles and stick to the plan. Focus down targets together. Peel from healers, interrupt casters. Swap target on guard. It's basic PvP 101. L2P and you can be successful in solo queue

 

 

This anti-premade agenda doesn't hold water. It's just Bads complaining

Edited March 15, 2016 by knowmyname