Premades... because it's an MMO

[Ruhun]

Everything you say is true, but i just dont see it as a reason to do things that make it worse instead of doing those that should make it better.

The community in this game has no regard whatsoever for new players in pvp and in fact quite the opposite we have great disdain for them, and yet, we wonder why noone queues? It not logical, it makes no sense.

You cant blow them into oblivion and call them names type all the litle "rekt" quotes after a 4v1 and tell them not to ever queue again and then wonder why they dont queue. That has nothing whatever to do with anything BW has or has not done. Weve done that, not BW. We are the reason noone queues ranked, not BW.

Since ive come back ive seen what appears to be many new players asking questions on fleet and literally every one of them is met with some wisecrack rude response. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

I usually end up whispering those people to try to help them so they dont get subjected to more abuse for doing nothing more than asking a question.

This is off topic but still... its been this way more or less since day 1, ive seen very few players make any effort at all to help grow the community.

 

I always try to be helpful, usually all you need is one or two serious responses to drown out any trolling that comes along in the fleet. Unless you're on POT5, that place is where humanity goes to die.

[-Bob-]

Everything you say is true, but i just dont see it as a reason to do things that make it worse instead of doing those that should make it better.

The community in this game has no regard whatsoever for new players in pvp and in fact quite the opposite we have great disdain for them, and yet, we wonder why noone queues? It not logical, it makes no sense.

You cant blow them into oblivion and call them names type all the litle "rekt" quotes after a 4v1 and tell them not to ever queue again and then wonder why they dont queue. That has nothing whatever to do with anything BW has or has not done. Weve done that, not BW. We are the reason noone queues ranked, not BW.

Since ive come back ive seen what appears to be many new players asking questions on fleet and literally every one of them is met with some wisecrack rude response. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

I usually end up whispering those people to try to help them so they dont get subjected to more abuse for doing nothing more than asking a question.

This is off topic but still... its been this way more or less since day 1, ive seen very few players make any effort at all to help grow the community.

I understand what you mean and you're right. We are just talking on 2 different levels of the same topic.

[Floplag]

I always try to be helpful, usually all you need is one or two serious responses to drown out any trolling that comes along in the fleet. Unless you're on POT5, that place is where humanity goes to die.

 

I wasnt suggesting you, just in general. We all see whats going on and then i see those same people complaining that noone is in queue 2 mins after calling everyone in their group everything but the kitchen sink. its self fulfilling.

No game is ever going to have a competitive situation where everyone is nice, im not expecting that, maybe just making slightly less effort to show our collective rear end at every possible opportunity.

[Floplag]

I understand what you mean and you're right. We are just talking on 2 different levels of the same topic.

 

Agreed.

[HuaRya]

And Premades should be Playing OTHER Premades. Not constantly thrown into matches filled with solo queue randoms that lack healers. Give us a Solo Queue only option and lets see how popular your group only queue is.

 

[Floplag]

And Premades should be Playing OTHER Premades. Not constantly thrown into matches filled with solo queue randoms that lack healers. Give us a Solo Queue only option and lets see how popular your group only queue is.

 

 

I felt this way to for the longest time but if you separate them queue times would likely be much higher so be very careful what you ask for.

 

The thing is we need group queue in regs to prepare for ranked, thats a given. Group queue isnt the problem the problem is that we seem to have no have no match making algorithm in place to try to balance these things out. It simply grabs the first 8 or 16 it has in queue and loads them into a WZ. Cant tell you how many times ive been with 8 randoms versus double premades or 2 obvious groups on the other side and none on mine. If the groups were just evenly distributed in and of itself it would make a world of difference.

[Evanouss]

2 questions

 

1. If they introduced a solo que would the que times be faster for the solo que then the que times for the general que now? Yes or no please.

 

2. If they introduced a solo que would more people be inclined to pvp out of the general populace that do not pvp now? Yes or no please.

 

These are in reference to Regs.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Evanouss

[Savej]

2 questions

 

1. If they introduced a solo que would the que times be faster for the solo que then the que times for the general que now? Yes or no please.

 

2. If they introduced a solo que would more people be inclined to pvp out of the general populace that do not pvp now? Yes or no please.

 

Yep to both. There are more casual/solo players than group-focused ones.

 

Of the ranked qs, which pop more, the group one or the solo one? Which has more players/characters in it? Why is even solo mostly dead? I strongly suspect one of the main reasons was that people were figuring out how to "group" for it (cheese the qs) and that the idea of going against a premade in voice turned off many pvpers.

[foxmob]

Why is even solo mostly dead? I strongly suspect one of the main reasons was that people were figuring out how to "group" for it (cheese the qs) and that the idea of going against a premade in voice turned off many pvpers.

 

no. soloQ died (to the extent that it's dead -- it does still pop regularly) b/c it very heavily favors certain classes, it's easy to game the system with certain classes (i.e., skank tank or heal), and then you get to the premade issue, which is only an issue when players queue on rep side. most of the action is imp v imp.

[jedcjedcjedc]

2 questions

 

1. If they introduced a solo que would the que times be faster for the solo que then the que times for the general que now? Yes or no please.

 

2. If they introduced a solo que would more people be inclined to pvp out of the general populace that do not pvp now? Yes or no please.

 

These are in reference to Regs.

anytime you cut players out of the que the que time will be longer. naturally people who are against premades will tell you that it will get faster, but it's an obvious no.

[FatEdd]

2 questions

 

1. If they introduced a solo que would the que times be faster for the solo que then the que times for the general que now? Yes or no please.

 

2. If they introduced a solo que would more people be inclined to pvp out of the general populace that do not pvp now? Yes or no please.

 

These are in reference to Regs.

 

I think certainly on the solo Q it would be quick, but I find that it is quick anyway already when I Q.

 

A bit slow at certain times of day which you would expect, but other than that, no it Q's quite quickly.

 

I do not know whether a pre-made Q system would speed up for them though, if anything, they may end up going into matches much slower than solo. But that could sort the issue out of pre-mades when you think about it?. If they have a pre-made Q and they are having to wait to go into a match, then eventually they would solo Q my guess is, which means us solo players or those of us who mainly solo Q would be in 8v8 almost all of the time and with no pre-mades we end up with much more even match ups.

 

I dunno, I mean they know it is an issue and they must be working on something to rectify it. I mean we all still PVP regardless of what the situation is, but we would also like a few changes made, nothing major, just something to even the odds a bit more.

 

Cheers

 

Fat

[jenlen]

2 questions

 

1. If they introduced a solo que would the que times be faster for the solo que then the que times for the general que now? Yes or no please.

 

2. If they introduced a solo que would more people be inclined to pvp out of the general populace that do not pvp now? Yes or no please.

 

These are in reference to Regs.

 

1. Hell yes it would be much faster. That's a big "duh". Group queue would probably be slower but frankly who cares? If "playing with my friends" is so important, you can wait a little longer for it to pop.

 

2. Hell yes to this one too.

 

But if they did this we would ALSO need better matchmaking. Would it be so hard to write code that looks at an incoming group and says "We have 2 healers, so one to each team", or, "We have 2 tanks and 4 healers, so 1 tank to each team and 2 healers to each team" ?

[jedcjedcjedc]

another bias soaked opinion

 

here's a little example for you. say 50 people are in a que. 10 of these people que in "evil premades". now say you divide the ques into solo and group ques. suddenly there are only 40 people queuing. how is this que with less people in it faster than the one with more people in it? your hatred for the dreaded premade does not warp time to your bias.

[Ruhun]

1. Hell yes it would be much faster. That's a big "duh". Group queue would probably be slower but frankly who cares? If "playing with my friends" is so important, you can wait a little longer for it to pop.

 

2. Hell yes to this one too.

 

But if they did this we would ALSO need better matchmaking. Would it be so hard to write code that looks at an incoming group and says "We have 2 healers, so one to each team", or, "We have 2 tanks and 4 healers, so 1 tank to each team and 2 healers to each team" ?

 

 

Solo queues would kill grouping up in this game.

 

I hate premades as much as the next guy, but only because of how broken certain team comps are now compared to a group of random unoptimized full DPS team. Matcmaking is what we need.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Ruhun

[Evanouss]

hmm strange...Solo que would destroy pvp grouping in this game? Why? I see so many pro premade ppl on this forum all the time, premaders and non premaders a like.

 

Surely even with the introduction of a solo que all of these people would still join the "general" que? Especially if the rewards are greater? More valor, more creds, more pvp tokens. Because, you know, they love the challenge of going against premades all the time.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Evanouss

[Wimbleton]

Premades are the way of the MMO, everyone loves playing with friends and voice comm-ing and making fun of themselves and others much better than just solo queuing with some 'metro' EDM playing in their headphones.

 

Likewise, the people who take the time to excel (spent more time playing) and join some sort of community (guild, friends etc) are more likely to stay and continue to pay subs. They are an important part of the business model.

 

The solo randoms who fade in and out of the game, much less so.

 

This anecdotal evidence is truthful fact because I have posted it on the internet.

Edited March 2, 2016 by Wimbleton

[Ruhun]

hmm strange...Solo que would destroy pvp grouping in this game? Why? I see so many pro premade ppl on this forum all the time, premaders and non premaders a like.

 

Surely even with the introduction of a solo que all of these people would still join the "general" que? Especially if the rewards are greater? More valor, more creds, more pvp tokens. Because, you know, they love the challenge of going against premades all the time.

 

For the same reason that ranked is more or less dead, the population doesn't support it.

More people solo queue so solo would be more or less unaffected.

[RevansSoul]

Well now that ranked is "dead", imperial premade groups are farming unranked. You know what the result is? I don't have a pvp guild or a group that I can play with so i have to queue solo. And I lose 9/10 because almost no premades on the republic side. Well, that's over. I've had *enough* of being ganked by tank/sorcerer/operative ranked premades. Just now was the proverbial drop, had a juggernaut/marauder combo on me the entire match, I run to our healer and she lets me die right beside her after 5 full seconds of literally running around her, doesn't even bother to bubble me. Forget it. It just isn't fun anymore. Let the imp premades farm each other for points. Edited March 2, 2016 by RevansSoul

[Savej]

another bias soaked opinion

 

here's a little example for you. say 50 people are in a que. 10 of these people que in "evil premades". now say you divide the ques into solo and group ques. suddenly there are only 40 people queuing. how is this que with less people in it faster than the one with more people in it? your hatred for the dreaded premade does not warp time to your bias.

 

Of those 10 groupers I bet most would q solo if that was their only option. Note that in the current mechanics those 10 can heavily discourage a significant percentage of the non-groupers and that results in fewer people playing. Some/many people really do stop playing game setups that aren't giving them a fair chance.

[jedcjedcjedc]

Well now that ranked is "dead", imperial premade groups are farming unranked. You know what the result is? I don't have a pvp guild or a group that I can play with so i have to queue solo. And I lose 9/10 because almost no premades on the republic side. Well, that's over. I've had *enough* of being ganked by tank/sorcerer/operative ranked premades. Just now was the proverbial drop, had a juggernaut/marauder combo on me the entire match, I run to our healer and she lets me die right beside her after 5 full seconds of literally running around her, doesn't even bother to bubble me. Forget it. It just isn't fun anymore. Let the imp premades farm each other for points.

heh. you're not losing 'cause premade, you're losing 'cause pub

 

Also, I find it hard to believe you can't find a guild. I also find it reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaallllllllly hard to believe all these anti-premade posters on the forums don't play with members of their guilds as well. "bu-but, it's different when we do it, because we're not farming and stuff!!" they'd probably say. Neither are 99% of the so-called premades you claim to face. And this voice chat coordination? it consists of stuff like "2 grass" and "Ill head under mid to ninja snow", all things you can type in chat. The only difference? People in your group are more likely to not be derps, and we like people who are not derps. they respond to calls, they bait people off turrets, they know how to use and/or not break CC. So instead of blaming premades, look to the people themselves. Most people in premades do just as well in solo because they're usually the ones who know what they're doing, which is part of the reason they're asked to group up to begin with.

Edited March 2, 2016 by jedcjedcjedc

[Ruhun]

The main difference is team comps.

The premades we ***** about usually roll with one tank and soec healer, minimum.

 

I ***** about two premades of the same guild queue syncing, but I havent been seeing that lately.

[DomiSotto]

yeah, the moment you log an Imperial, you become a real pro.

 

Playing in a premmie is not easier because getting 4 people together speaks to your persuasion skill and logistics prowess, but ain't a license to faceroll yet.

 

Awareness is a key to saving your own hide as a solo. It becomes gazillion tons more important when you play with friends. You can't just expect them to have your back. You need to have theirs. And that means being aware of what three other people are doing and what helps they need in co-targeting, being relieved, healed, cleansed etc.

 

It's amazing, but you gotta want it badly!

[RevansSoul]

heh. you're not losing 'cause premade, you're losing 'cause pub

 

Also, I find it hard to believe you can't find a guild. I also find it reeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaallllllllly hard to believe all these anti-premade posters on the forums don't play with members of their guilds as well. "bu-but, it's different when we do it, because we're not farming and stuff!!" they'd probably say. Neither are 99% of the so-called premades you claim to face. And this voice chat coordination? it consists of stuff like "2 grass" and "Ill head under mid to ninja snow", all things you can type in chat. The only difference? People in your group are more likely to not be derps, and we like people who are not derps. they respond to calls, they bait people off turrets, they know how to use and/or not break CC. So instead of blaming premades, look to the people themselves. Most people in premades do just as well in solo because they're usually the ones who know what they're doing, which is part of the reason they're asked to group up to begin with.

 

I was trying to find a guild for quite some time in pvp chat in the fleet, ironically an imperial player directed me to a republic guild, so today I decided to give it a shot with a few of them in a group and it was better. But don't get me wrong, I'm not against premades, as you can see from my post I'm against ranked player premades in unranked warzones. Republic side pvp is difficult enough without these imperial pvp groups/guilds farming unranked because ranked queues don't pop. Of course it's not fun for them either that the ranked queue doesn't pop, I get that too.

 

Also, you can do well in solo but if the rest of your team doesn't know their stuff or doesn't read ops chat, then it doesn't matter how good you are, you can't win a match alone.

[SrM-InOsItOl]

Premades are the way of the MMO, everyone loves playing with friends and voice comm-ing and making fun of themselves and others much better than just solo queuing with some 'metro' EDM playing in their headphones.

 

Likewise, the people who take the time to excel (spent more time playing) and join some sort of community (guild, friends etc) are more likely to stay and continue to pay subs. They are an important part of the business model.

 

The solo randoms who fade in and out of the game, much less so.

 

This anecdotal evidence is truthful fact because I have posted it on the internet.

 

Truth^^^

[aerockyul]

im sorry but i feel this is a copout. it doesnt matter what BW has or has not done its not an excuse to do things in game that are counter productive.

 

The person makes a very valid point that those who like running premades will quickly dismiss, but there is an argument to be made about it especially in regard to new players of which we have seen a lot of them recently based on my observations since my return.

 

Those new players wander into pvp and get rolled by a premade, you think they are going to be exited about the gameplay there and return? We as a community do nothing to build it up, and everything possible to shart the bed and blow it up in terms of how we treat new players in general and certainly how we farm them.

 

Thats not BW fault, thats our own fault as a community. Even if the engine was perfect this would stil be happening, it doesnt in every game that allows it.

 

I think this is continuously underrated and even ignored by a lot of people in the forums and in-game, and it's a large reason people either aren't getting better or just simply say "NOPE" and never queue again. It's not getting stomped by a premade that does it, it's either the way that premade sometimes has to rub it in (no, it's not simple trash talk) through emotes/actions/general chat/whispers/etc, OR it's the jerks on your own team that scream at everyone and never find even partial blame in themselves.

 

I have a weak constitution for cyberbullying, but I have loved this game so much from the beginning that I decided to stick it out and make myself better in the pvp aspect, and a lot of wins have started to come my way because I have better gear, a better understanding of bolster, and overall map awareness now than I did when I was grinding all the way up to 65 putting up with the cesspool of people that have worse dispositions than the jerks in 65 with zero help from the community.

I am in the MINORITY of people that could have/would have put up with all that and soldiered on. The MAJORITY of people will just quit without a word, and take secret pleasure in the jerks in general begging/pleading/coercing people to queue ranked/regs (yes, I have seen these reg calls in general chat. Sorry guys, you've already chased away the weaker-willed people that COULD have been better and WOULD have been contributing to faster pops).

 

What also doesn't help is seeing certain "celebrities" of pvp acting just as bad as the new people they **** all over for different reasons:

Some of them quitting the millisecond something goes wrong in the first thirty seconds of a match (it is so incredibly gratifying to win these matches)

Badmouthing the game in general chat and giving troll answers to people with legitimate questions

Yelling and screaming at your own team when you were clearly in the wrong (this is my favorite--guy yells at one of the node-guards for not calling incs, and if he had actually been paying attention he would have seen the first call, the second with larger numbers incoming, and the panicked button-mashing just to get anyone's attention)

Terrible or non-existent strategic play by the people giving the newbs the hardest time. They'll REALLY learn that way!! (hand-in-hand with this is the loudest jerks being at the bottom of the scoreboards, but most of the newbs would have dropped before the scoreboard came up anyway or drop the group at the end as soon as their button lights up)

 

Could really go on and on about how the pvp community in this game and in these forums turns new players off/away. I am completely understanding that some of you are amazingly helpful when you have the opportunity to be, but you are not the loudest, most visible part of the community that is chasing away your competent teammates and competitors. Stop giving the known loudmouths the time of day, drop group when you see them, ignore them, shun them, troll them back harder (this is the least likely to help, I'm sure they're ******* away to all the attention), reassure their victims.

 

Inb4 assuming I'm not doing my part either, my guild is specifically for helping new players and I reassure them about all the truly GREAT aspects of PVP in this game while helping them gear, advising them on strategies, telling them who to ignore but also WHY to ignore them, etc. etc. I also whisper the people in general chat asking legit questions with actual answers. I thank people during a match who do good things to show I appreciate their teamwork/effort. Just like with being able to go on and on about the bad things, I and many of you could go on and on about the good things, but we've got to become louder than the minority of the people who are actively and, dare I say, deliberately, shrinking the community overall.