We need more moneysinks, please.

[Joesixxpack]

We need more moneysinks, please.

 

I agree it's quicker and easier to make more cheese these days, and that inflation is a thing.

 

But what's reasonable considering how skewed things are due to CM purchases and sales for creds is something to be cautious about IMO. The people dumping stuff from packs aren't in the same league as the schmoes not doing so, but both would be stuck with the same sinks if mandatory. The two voluntary things you mention sound alright, or similar.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Joesixxpack

[Thoronmir]

I agree it's quicker and easier to make more cheese these days, and that inflation is a thing.

 

But what's reasonable considering how skewed things are due to CM purchases and sales for creds is something to be cautious about IMO. The people dumping stuff from packs aren't in the same league as the schmoes not doing so, but both would be stuck with the same sinks if mandatory. The two voluntary things you mention sound alright, or similar.

Agreed. Implementing mandatory credit sinks would act as a regressive tax on players who lack the time, income, or desire to acquire Scrooge McDuck piles of credits. A 10,000 credit taxi fee wouldn't phase the player who had millions, but I assume there are plenty of players who would feel the bite. I remember, back in the old, old days in the long, long ago, having to choose between two class skills when I leveled because I could not afford both. I recall waiting several levels past when I acquired the Pilot I skill before I could afford a speeder. I have since amassed wealth and have vowed, "As God is my witness, I will never go hungry again!" But I'm sure there are players who would struggle under a system with imposed credit sinks.

 

As for the optional options to optionally dispose of credits, by all means, sure. If folks want to give away their credits on fluff, why not? I have a friend who owns six cars. I have no idea why ... I'm pretty sure he can only drive one at a time. But, he's got stacks of cash and manages to feed his family, so it's not really my business.

 

Disposable income is meant to be disposed of.

[Gwena]

I think that some "fun" credit sinks would be a good idea. Maybe re-visit the casino (Nightlife Event) slots and rewards, or add some limited time vendors with shiny new items, like the vendor from 1.something that sold the white crystals and some other goodies (back then, a million credits was a fortune). Adding a new, expensive stronghold would be nice too!

 

Also, I would like to point out that the CM does not generate new credits to add to the game. People who get credits from selling CM items are getting the credits from other players (often via the GTN, causing a small percentage of the credits spent to leave the game via fees), not credits that have been newly generated by the game such as mission rewards are. The CM can definitely contribute to the discrepancy in wealth of players that use a lot it vs. that do not, though.

 

And regardless of inflation issues . . . I don't think adding some purely optional, fun credit sinks would be a bad thing.

[Thoronmir]

Also, I would like to point out that the CM does not generate new credits to add to the game.

[modestproposal]

 

The quoted comment got me thinking that the CM items sold on the GTN actually just redistribute wealth rather than create it. The concept of redistribution of wealth conjured the old maxim (popularized by Karl Marx): "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need." That's what SWTOR needs ... a good, old fashioned Marxist revolution. Level the playing field for all! Each week, take credits from the rich and give them to the poor. If every player had the same resources, inflation would not be an issue. And imagine the economic boom that would follow: players spending credits feverishly in order to reduce their stockpile of credits so that they can obtain more from next week's reallocation.

 

[/modestproposal]

[Caelrie]

RAID elitist spotted.

tl:dr (too long: didn't read :: summary of this thread)

 

"filthy casuals making as much money as me, BIOAREW plz fix."

 

You completely misread my post. My problem is that I (and people like me) have too much money and nothing to make it leave the game, not that casuals do. My use of "casuals" was merely to illustrate that money is too easy to make for EVERYONE, me included.

 

Not when the supply/demand for cartel market items is so strong. The inflation is from the CM period. People are making more credits from heroics to where a full run gives you over a million credits, not to mention the millions peopleare making selling cash purchased items.

 

so in fact, charging for leveling or class abilities would not make any impact. In fact it would hurt the players that are not using real money for cartel items.

 

Sorry but your MMO econ 101 is flawed, may want to take the class again.

 

Again with the not reading. I actually said in the OP that BW shouldn't do those things. They should instead be adding things to the game that players can buy with credits, from vendors so that those credits leave the game.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Caelrie

[hof_th]

You completely misread my post. My problem is that I (and people like me) have too much money and nothing to make it leave the game,

 

A short guide how you can create your own credit sink:

1. Make an alt
   
2. Send credits to your new alt
   
3. Delete said alt
   
4. Feel satisfied that the Credits left the Game
   

[Caelrie]

A short guide how you can create your own credit sink:

1. Make an alt
   
2. Send credits to your new alt
   
3. Delete said alt
   
4. Feel satisfied that the Credits left the Game
   

 

Too small scale to actually help an economy.

[DawnAskham]

Ideas I'd love to see....

 

Expensive 'luxury' items sold by vendors for credits.

 

Events like the casino event, more frequent, and with updated prizes.

 

Something akin to WoW's BMAH, where rare / retired items show up from time to time and players can bid to win.

Edited February 25, 2016 by DawnAskham

[ZanyaCross]

Yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

[Khevar]

Ideas I'd love to see....

 

Expensive 'luxury' items sold by vendors for credits.

 

Events like the casino event, more frequent, and with updated prizes.

 

Something akin to WoW's BMAH, where rare / retired items show up from time to time and players can bid to win.

100% yes!

 

Whether or not anyone disagrees with the OP's premise of inflation, surely there's nothing wrong with adding more interesting things to buy from a vendor with credits.

[Andryah]

I think that some "fun" credit sinks would be a good idea.

 

I agree.... BUT....

 

Then I have a flashback to the Cartel Slot Machine debacle and conclude it's best not to ask them to do this because they are like one armed wallpaper hangers on stuff like this.

[Andryah]

Whether or not anyone disagrees with the OP's premise of inflation, surely there's nothing wrong with adding more interesting things to buy from a vendor with credits.

 

100% agree.

 

But I don't trust them to do it without including a "Lucy With The Football" moment as well.

[Andryah]

Perhaps, but you can't be certain of that, and neither can the OP without hard data tracking a wide variety of goods prices over the last few months.

 

Which is why I suggested early in the thread that we stop the nonsense topic and let the Bioware monitor and adjust the economic knobs. They screw up a lot of things in this game, but they have been pretty good about managing income/expense dynamics for the player base.

 

You aren't wrong, but you are assuming the rate of inflation to be constant, more or less. If it's getting out of control as the OP suggests, however, then the rate in price increases is at some point going to exceed the ability of low earners to make money, excluding them from the economy for all intents and purposes. Only people with a lot of credit will be able to participate in real economic activity to any significant degree, be it playing the GTN for cosmetic items or engaging in rare commodity trading.

 

In your walk-through scenario, if we slash prices by half and also slash money supply in half, the X% of accumulated wealth that the price of a given good represents for a low earner may exceed 100%. The catch is, under serious inflation, it will never go below 100% because the rate at which prices raise exceeds his earning ability (without resorting to buying gold), while the wealthy players can still afford whatever and therefore their worth increases steadily because their wealth is tied to items of intrinsic value as opposed to ever-devaluating currency.

 

Wealth gaps in MMOs have always existed as well they should. When the gap widens too quickly, it's a barrier that turns off new players, and those unwilling or unable to convert real world currency into in-game wealth.

 

My view about inflation in MMOs is pretty simple... 1) it will happen, and 2) it is fine as long as they don't freeze out new players. 4.0 pretty clearly was done to help inoculate new players from actual inflationary effects in the player-2-player market ahead of the recent movie release and natural pull-through to the game it generates.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Andryah

[Falensawino]

Yeah, I'm just gonna leave this here.

 

If that's the extra credits episode on credit sinks...

*clicks*

yep it is. "Extra Credits - MMO Economies - How to Manage Inflation in Virtual Economies"

Edited February 26, 2016 by Falensawino

[LonelyWookiee]

I think it's tough to manage the economy in an MMO and inflation is always an issue. I agree with a previous poster in that so long as it doesn't inhibit a new player then there's really no issue.

[DizzD]

Increasing money sinks will make the "poor" players even poorer, while barely affecting the people who have tons of money already(which is actually a huge portion of the playerbase in a 4yr old game). In other words, prices will stay high, and the poorest players will have even less to spend and fall even farther behind.

 

The solution is for players to go out and make some money to buy the things they want(It's really easy to do) instead of asking for knee-jerk changes that will result in the exact opposite of your intended outcome.

 

p.s. The increase in supply brought about by chance cubes has already dropped prices further and faster than any credit sink ever would.

Edited February 25, 2016 by DizzD

[Exscarion]

don't know where this inflation mindset came up. when i see the average "things" prices i only see lowest and cheapest prices emerging all over the place!

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Increasing money sinks will make the "poor" players even poorer, while barely affecting the people who have tons of money already(which is actually a huge portion of the playerbase in a 4yr old game). In other words, prices will stay high, and the poorest players will have even less to spend and fall even farther behind.

 

The solution is for players to go out and make some money to buy the things they want(It's really easy to do) instead of asking for knee-jerk changes that will result in the exact opposite of your intended outcome.

 

p.s. The increase in supply brought about by chance cubes has already dropped prices further and faster than any credit sink ever would.

 

But.....but.....then the player would have to actually wait and earn the item, we cant have that then there would be no instant gratification with no personal cost......cant have that:rolleyes:

[richiesilva]

Ship me a million coin and I'll leave my smexiest char afk dancing just for you. Edited February 25, 2016 by richiesilva

[Theeko]

It would be bad for revenue if they decided to add more credit sinks cause then everything from the packs and in game will become so cheap that people won't bother buying packs anymore.

[Tashia]

sheesh I'm doing something wrong then -- I don't have anywhere near that much ( most I have on a toon is 9 M)

and it goes down from there on my other 4 ...... my BH is just getting by with 3M -- sheesh gold sink not needed guys;

not as far as I see it.....

[Mowermanx]

Ideas I'd love to see....

 

Expensive 'luxury' items sold by vendors for credits.

 

Events like the casino event, more frequent, and with updated prizes.

 

Something akin to WoW's BMAH, where rare / retired items show up from time to time and players can bid to win.

 

They did the Luxury item thing(white crystals and korrealis mounts) not long after release because of the slicing exploit that started to spread and swell the servers with credits, but this was when they still had a guy that helped set up the economy on the the books so understood what was happening and put this quick fix in to sink trillions overnight out of the economy. It worked extremely well and would be welcome addition again, a limited time vendor that stocked items at various price points, and this time could be used as a sub sweetener.

As has been mentioned, they are very unlikely to ever revisit the stronghold slots, but the nightlife event would be very effective if they add in some new cool prizes to the pool. We are coming up to the 3rd iteration of this event and lots would've already gotten what they wanted from this so it's important to add to it. Imagine the fervour if they added a variation of the unstable lightsabers to the pool!

[Caelrie]

sheesh I'm doing something wrong then -- I don't have anywhere near that much ( most I have on a toon is 9 M)

and it goes down from there on my other 4 ...... my BH is just getting by with 3M -- sheesh gold sink not needed guys;

not as far as I see it.....

 

3 years ago a bioware dev said that 90% of players didn't have over 1 million credits.

 

Now here you are saying 9 million means you're poor... But there's no hyper-inflation, right?

Edited February 26, 2016 by Caelrie

[Anytwosooted]

This topic is the perfect demonstration of why giving money to rich people (subs) while limiting everyone else (f2p and pref) is a terrible economic system. The rich people wilfully ignore the numerous money sinks available to them.

[Caelrie]

This topic is the perfect demonstration of why giving money to rich people (subs) while limiting everyone else (f2p and pref) is a terrible economic system. The rich people wilfully ignore the numerous money sinks available to them.

 

That's sort of the problem, in a roundabout way. Limiting F2P players to 350k credits establishes a fixed baseline for how much credits should be worth. Inflation makes that limit buy less and less and hurt F2P players more than anyone.

 

Removing massive amounts of money from the economy will help F2P players more than anyone as it brings the prices on everything on the GTN down.