We need more moneysinks, please.

[Andryah]

I think rather then conventional money sinks, a better approuch would be to bring in a limited time vendor that soild some stuff that would have high demand to sink it. much like they did with the saber crystal vendor. cause that's what they need to do, get people sitting on insane amounts of credits to spend those credits. and ideally take them out of circulation.

 

Thing is.... most wealthy player have more credits then they can ever use. So their credits sit and sit and sit unspent... which effectively by the way .. has removed them from the economy. A lot of them eventually leave the game... with fat wallets sitting in stasis. We don't have stock markets to invest in in game, best we can do is a rough go at commodities trading and merchandising.

 

Thing is.. the premise that launched this thread is flawed. It wants to drive prices down in a supply demand market by soaking credits. Prices, for the most part are dictated by a balance of supply and demand coupled with a general game wide wealth level. Sure if you removed 90% of every ones credits... prices on the GTN would shift accordingly. But see.. the thing is.... it's all relative. Player desire drives the GTN top-2-bottom. The actual price ranges are largely irrelevant because any broad shift in credit float simply adjust everything in a proportional manner, except for the player desires that drive the actual sales.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Andryah

[BrianDavion]

Thing is.... most wealthy player have more credits then they can ever use. So their credits sit and sit and sit unspent... which effectively by the way .. has removed them from the economy. A lot of them eventually leave the game... with fat wallets sitting in stasis. We don't have stock markets to invest in in game, best we can do is a rough go at commodities trading and merchandising.

 

Thing is.. the premise that launched this thread is flawed. It wants to drive prices down in a supply demand market by soaking credits. Prices, for the most part are dictated by a balance of supply and demand coupled with a general game wide wealth level. Sure if you removed 90% of every ones credits... prices on the GTN would shift accordingly. But see.. the thing is.... it's all relative. Player desire drives the GTN top-2-bottom. The actual price ranges are largely irrelevant.

 

 

don't entirely disagree, but it might not be that bad an idea, BW DID put in a temp vendor before.

 

the question is.. are these people sitting on 600 million going to spend money. putting a 5 million speeder up for a limited time only, will do no good if the people with 600 million have no intreast in a speeder

[Andryah]

the question is.. are these people sitting on 600 million going to spend money. putting a 5 million speeder up for a limited time only, will do no good if the people with 600 million have no intreast in a speeder

 

Exactly.

 

Honestly, most wealthy players are wealthy because they know how to earn and how to manage expenses. In other words... wealthy players are prudent buyers as well. So unless a vendor put up an incredibly awesome item that every player just had to have and would pay 5M credits to get their hands on it... it's a failure of effort. See.. the thing is... if everyone can buy one.. then it's not special for many players, AND if the item is desirable and priced out of reach of 90% of players... then the 90% are going to be vocally pissed about it.

 

Basically, there is much more at play dynamically here (given hundreds of thousands of players as variables), and simply trying to entice wealthy players to open their wallets won't really work well for the game as a whole.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Andryah

[Mowermanx]

It doesn't take much if any knowledge at all of the GTN market to see that the massive influx of creds from different sources, and removal of many of the sinks is causing a steady increase of inflation, but I dont think its a bad thing.

Gearing from 1 to 65, no need to spend a single credit, or comm for that matter, relics, ear, implants, offhands, weapons, the lot, all blue and all free via heroics.

Travel costs, while only minimal, has all but been removed.

Training costs, removed.

Outfit designer, has all but made orange shells and the need for mod swapping(other than once for legacy if thats your thing) obsolete.

Gearing companions, removed.

 

While augmenting can be a decent sink, it's nowhere near enough if that's what they hold up as the only decent sink as too few do it and more importantly it's just not needed unless you're a HM/NiM raider. The 208 vendor gear you get for comms is more than enough for all the content this game provides for most people and BW wants it that way, these are all clear design decisions from the team, the casualization of the game has made it so a new player can enjoy the entire game without ever having to think about grinding for credits, and I agree with the devs with this swing around in design.

Its sort of split the game, the game proper, where credits don't matter, and the meta game, where credits do matter, and that's a personal decision each player can make, whereas prior to 3.0 you were caught in it without any choice as you had to get those credits to train your skills among other things.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Mowermanx

[PiiTarr]

Once the patch hits that allows 5 strongholds instead of 4, that will act as a sink for some players.

[BrianDavion]

Once the patch hits that allows 5 strongholds instead of 4, that will act as a sink for some players.

 

it will, which is why 6 stronghold spots and a new stronghold would be even better,

[DataBeaver]

Other sets that have dropped by half or more are

...

Xuxaan's sets

Really? A few months back I saw the Xoxaan set for 6 million. Then it was 10 million for a while. Now it's 16 million. I wouldn't call that "dropped by half or more".

 

Also, what's up with the prices of packs and hypercrates? It used to be that the pack currently on the CM went for 250-350k and hypercrates for 6-8 million. Now they're 650k and 19 million. And here I was thinking people hated the new pack because of chance cubes.

 

One final thing I'd like to mention is ops passes. They used to be around 350k, but are now up to 1.3 million. That just doesn't make sense. It would require two 600k escrow transfers for a F2P or preferred player to buy a pass, costing 480 CC. For that price you could buy two ops passes directly from the CM.

[DataBeaver]

unnnnnn. No your quote was

The point is that he's wrong that these high-ticket items aren't selling.

Maybe you meant ARE but you put AREN'T

Double negation is hard. Let me break it down for you.

 

Someone claimed the items are not selling.

 

His claim is wrong. He is wrong that the items are not selling.

 

Because the claim "items are not selling" is wrong, the items are selling.

[Alssaran]

And here I was thinking people hated the new pack because of chance cubes.

 

I can't say people dislike chance cubes, really. They dislike the way they are implemented into the CM rather than the item itself. I can sell a single chance cube for 500k a piece. People just love buying that gamble. I've bought an anarchist supercrate from my free CC e-mail code and received six chance cubes. Those yielded me three million in total. That's not too shaby. Selling the packs itself would have yielded me 2m without the chance at good items. Opening them gave me 3m in chance cubes AND a droid handler license that I sold for 4m.

 

One final thing I'd like to mention is ops passes. They used to be around 350k, but are now up to 1.3 million. That just doesn't make sense. It would require two 600k escrow transfers for a F2P or preferred player to buy a pass, costing 480 CC. For that price you could buy two ops passes directly from the CM.

 

That's most likely due to the F2P player harassment theory. It seems some people dislike the idea of F2P players not paying a single cent and having an easier time affording the game due to increased credit gain in recent months. That's why they put prices so high, creating an artificial sub barrier. That's only a theory, but highly interesting nontheless.

 

YES! That's my idea exactly! So let's brainstorm. Got any ideas for such items?

 

Actual items that you cannot gain anywhere else. And that includes no CM purchases. A real crossguard lightsaber (unstable or not doesn't matter), special decorations (golden Hutt), a Hutt title, and even Valkorions armour set. Even a new SH like a Zakuulan palace would go a long way.

 

There's one simple issue with all of this: Not providing it on the CM (at least everything except the SH) would cut into Biowares real profit. That's why they'll never introduce high demand items to an in-game vendor for a few selected players. That's not helping the issue, but probably the sad reality.

[LordArtemis]

Yea, I am actually seeing the opposite as well. Most prices seem to have fallen. Even on some items I thought would NEVER be cheaper.

[Alssaran]

Yea, I am actually seeing the opposite as well. Most prices seem to have fallen. Even on some items I thought would NEVER be cheaper.

 

The Mask of Nihlus surprised me there the other day. It was a ten million item barely six months ago. Now I bought one for 1.5m on The Progenitor. That's not too shaby, really. But other items have increased in value too.

[LordArtemis]

...I am not against money sinks, of course, but would rather see more enticing ones instead of grating ones IMO....

 

The CSM was a perfect money sink until it was nerfed....now I would not advocate having it be a resource generation machine, that mistake was remedied by Yavin (and then ruined, IMO, by the new crafting material and areas)....but I would see certs dropped from the machine that would be able to be turned in for things like unique gear and mounts.

 

Perhaps temporary speed buffs for speeders, added crit chance for crafting, holographic disguises (the ability to look like a jawa, or wookie, temporary), temporary stealth devices that would work against mobs but not players, etc.

 

The appearance kiosk would be set to accept credits. Things like this.

[Karkais]

Money sinks would have no effect on the GTN inflation. That is caused by people buying and selling CM items, and I am pretty sure that BW isnt going to stop that.

 

This statement is false. If credits don't exist in the system, then CM items wont sell since there is no money to use for buying.

Credits have to come from somewhere for people be able to use them to buy CM items off GTM.

 

CM items cannot be sold to vendors, generating credits. Thus CM items have zero effect to the amount of credits in the system. Selling a CM item at GTM simply moves credits around (from customer to seller), it doesn't generate them.

 

As to the original statement, if people would have less money, they would spend it less on GTM. The inflation is imo caused by people having more credits to spend in general, which in turn is caused by abundance of credit faucets and lack of credit sinks.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Karkais

[LordArtemis]

All of my posts are referral links

 

Well, you will likely earn a ban for it. Silly rabbit.

[Falensawino]

shush friend, i like my millions in my bank

Thread is called moneysink not creditsink.

People want new ways to throw real world dollars at Bioware instead of the usual cartel packs, cosmetic or decorative garbage.

 

I got nothing against cosmetic garbage, it's my preferred cash shop model because I can easily ignore it without missing any core game or gameplay features. I have a problem with microtransaction models like this though, store.steampowered.com/sale/Company_of_Heroes_2_Commanders/

^-- those are commander packs, in that game a commander can call in bonus units and has extra economy or war abilities that get used during gameplay. Buying an overpowered premium commander can greatly influence the outcome of a match.

 

well I actually read the OP (original post) and the OP is really asking for creditsinks.

 

Inflation is getting out of control. Armor sets that were 5 million credits 6 months ago are now 20 million. Sets that were 20 million are now 35 to 40 million. Unstable sabers are going for the price of a guild flagship. I myself could buy a handful of flagships without blinking. People have too much money (me included) and it's driving crazy inflation.

 

Please do something, Bioware. Remove some of this money from the game through sinks. When even simple things cost 1 to 2 million credits on the GTN because people have so much money, it makes everything that much harder for the preferred and F2P players with their piddling limits of 250 and 350k. Raising their limits isn't the solution, since it does nothing about the crazy inflation.

 

You COULD do cheesy MMO things like increasing fuel costs, nerfing mission payouts again, increasing repair costs, etc.

I'm so glad you don't design video games. I certainly wouldn't play any game that view those examples as acceptable creditsinks to incrementally raise over time. Edited February 25, 2016 by Falensawino

[Falensawino]

RAID elitist spotted.

What are these sinks that can compare with being able to make a million credits a day as a casual player running heroics in groups?

casual runs through heroics =/= millions of credits per day. Hard hitting runs on heroics for hours on end does, but most peoples eyes bleed after a few days of that.

Kinda sounds like you don't know how the bonus objectives work. A full group of 4 running heroics together belts them out crazy fast and at the same time nets about 75-100k per player per heroic mission.

 

Making a million credits a day that way is EASY. Casuals are doing it no sweat.

tl:dr (too long: didn't read :: summary of this thread)

 

"filthy casuals making as much money as me, BIOAREW plz fix."

Edited February 25, 2016 by Falensawino

[squirrelballz]

RAID elitist spotted.

tl:dr (too long: didn't read :: summary of this thread)

 

"filthy casuals making as much money as me, BIOAREW plz fix."

 

LOL exactly its as if there is a fire burning under their bums that can't accept other people earning a good amount of credits like they have.

[Argonie]

well thats the discrepancy between old an new players i guess. i am always low on credits. i still have so many things to buy....

[Unperson]

RAID elitist spotted.

tl:dr (too long: didn't read :: summary of this thread)

 

"filthy casuals making as much money as me BIOAREW plz fix."

 

Actually the OP asked in the OP for money sinks especially for people with huge fortunes, not casuals with a few mil in their wallets. Personal flagships, as a specific example. This would actually reduce the gap between "filthy casuals" and "RAID elitists", as you so, ahem, eloquently put it.

 

May I suggest you do a bit less TL;DR and a bit more *actual* reading, for a change?

[Escarrabutxaques]

Inflation is getting out of control. Armor sets that were 5 million credits 6 months ago are now 20 million. Sets that were 20 million are now 35 to 40 million. Unstable sabers are going for the price of a guild flagship. I myself could buy a handful of flagships without blinking. People have too much money (me included) and it's driving crazy inflation.

 

Please do something, Bioware. Remove some of this money from the game through sinks. When even simple things cost 1 to 2 million credits on the GTN because people have so much money, it makes everything that much harder for the preferred and F2P players with their piddling limits of 250 and 350k. Raising their limits isn't the solution, since it does nothing about the crazy inflation.

 

You COULD do cheesy MMO things like increasing fuel costs, nerfing mission payouts again, increasing repair costs, etc. but why not go the other way and just give us cool things to spend credits on? The main reason I have hundreds of millions of credits in the first place is because there just isn't anything to spend them on. And even if I buy expensive things on the GTN, that just moves credits around. It doesn't remove them from the game.

 

I'd like to use this thread to come up with ideas for sinks that players would like, and would actually work. Here are a couple of mine:

 

1) Personal flagships. Let me have my own star destroyer, maybe with some functionality that helps solo or group players instead of guilds.

 

2) Offer some cartel market items for credits, direct from vendors. Maybe sell the 2nd tier of desirable items. I know you don't want to give up the cash cows like black dyes, but what about selling white dyes from vendors for 3 or 4 million credits each? Ziost sabers for 5 million? White/black saber crystals for 5 million? Reusable dye packs for 20 million? I dunno. There are lots of things you could sell players.

 

Blackjack and ******s will always fix money piling up problem ;P

 

Seriously though, introduction of a casino with functional slot machines that would have a chance of giving some rare items would fix things...

[Andryah]

Actually the OP asked in the OP for money sinks especially for people with huge fortunes, not casuals with a few mil in their wallets. Personal flagships, as a specific example. This would actually reduce the gap between "filthy casuals" and "RAID elitists", as you so, ahem, eloquently put it.

 

A fake problem to be honest. There is no problem with the gap and it is normal in MMOs. Every single player begins the game with zero credits and depending on how they play, how they earn AND most importantly how they spend they can be as wealthy as they like over time. The issue is how easily new players can overcome the gap through effort, and clearly with 4.0 Bioware largely addressed this for new players through changes in earn VS spend requirements for leveling characters to end game.

 

Besides.. the entire premise of the thread is flawed. GTN prices and global credit float do tend to track, but it's all relative. Here is the key point: if you reduce global credit float by say 50% then on average the prices people will be willing to pay will drop by 50% and selling prices will track accordingly. Sound great right? But it's pointless because all of this is just virtual digital stuff. What matters is can players buy items and earn credits to do so, NOT what the actual prices are. Player craving and desire are what drives sale, NOT prices per se.

 

Walk Through Example:

 

Item X lists regularly for 20M credits, and people regularly buy it for 20M credits because they want it and can afford it.

 

The actual 20M buy/sell rate IS indeed driven by the global credit float in the game for sure, no disagreement there. But again.. it's relative

 

NOW.. let's soak the global credit float by say 50% downward. Net effect is no different then if they withdrew all current credits and replaced them with "new-credits" at a 2 for 1 rate. Now.. all players have half the credits they used to.. but nothing else changes. Item X simply now lists for 10M credits and players willingness to spend is ~ half of what it was before, so they will only pay 10M credits. NOTHING changed here except the global credit float. Players still spend the same relative portion of their wealth on Item X... AND wealthy players will still have the same relative wealth with nothing to spend them on and will simply hoard them (which does remove them from the active economy by the way)..

 

TL;DR It's all relative. Players are only willing to spend X% of their current wealth for any single expensive item on the GTN. Period.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Andryah

[lightSaberAddiCt]

Removing money from the game is how you fix inflation. MMO econ 101.

 

Not when the supply/demand for cartel market items is so strong. The inflation is from the CM period. People are making more credits from heroics to where a full run gives you over a million credits, not to mention the millions peopleare making selling cash purchased items.

 

so in fact, charging for leveling or class abilities would not make any impact. In fact it would hurt the players that are not using real money for cartel items.

 

Sorry but your MMO econ 101 is flawed, may want to take the class again.

[DarkSaberMaster]

You can always give me your money since you feel you have too much. Working my way to a billion and need 800 mil more to get to my goal.

[Thoronmir]

You can always give me your money since you feel you have too much. Working my way to a billion and need 800 mil more to get to my goal.

I was about to post the same thought. I will gladly create an alt named Moneysink and place him on Fleet so players can dispose of their excess credits.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Thoronmir

[Unperson]

A fake problem to be honest. There is no problem with the gap and it is normal in MMOs.

 

Perhaps, but you can't be certain of that, and neither can the OP without hard data tracking a wide variety of goods prices over the last few months.

 

You aren't wrong, but you are assuming the rate of inflation to be constant, more or less. If it's getting out of control as the OP suggests, however, then the rate in price increases is at some point going to exceed the ability of low earners to make money, excluding them from the economy for all intents and purposes. Only people with a lot of credit will be able to participate in real economic activity to any significant degree, be it playing the GTN for cosmetic items or engaging in rare commodity trading.

 

In your walk-through scenario, if we slash prices by half and also slash money supply in half, the X% of accumulated wealth that the price of a given good represents for a low earner may exceed 100%. The catch is, under serious inflation, it will never go below 100% because the rate at which prices raise exceeds his earning ability (without resorting to buying gold), while the wealthy players can still afford whatever and therefore their worth increases steadily because their wealth is tied to items of intrinsic value as opposed to ever-devaluating currency.

 

Wealth gaps in MMOs have always existed as well they should. When the gap widens too quickly, it's a barrier that turns off new players, and those unwilling or unable to convert real world currency into in-game wealth.