What defines a player moving on from beginner to intermediate pvp skill's?

[Banderal]

Speaking of which, I been meaning to tell you, in your sig you have the server name "Harbinger" spelled as "Harbringer". This has tortured me for years now! Please fix it, Banderal before i go insane!

 

I think you are already insane. It looks fine to me. (Thanks to these forums retro-actively filling in the sig for old posts to show your current one. )

 

Is having your server name spelled right part of moving to an intermediate level player?

[aerockyul]

1) Knowing how to play your class correctly; Basic dps/healing rotations.

 

2) Having good awareness; knowing when to pull back, when to kite, LoS and where to stand if you are range.

 

3) Knowing the basic limitations and cds of other classes and knowing how to adjust combat to exploit or to save a player.

 

these are the big ones for me

 

@ OP - keyboard turning at times and keybinding is a play style preference not a accurate assumption of skill.

 

THANK YOU! this in green needed to be said

[aerockyul]

I think you are already insane. It looks fine to me. (Thanks to these forums retro-actively filling in the sig for old posts to show your current one. )

 

Is having your server name spelled right part of moving to an intermediate level player?

 

I always thought you did that on purpose considering how long it's been in your sig

[Lhancelot]

I think you are already insane. It looks fine to me. (Thanks to these forums retro-actively filling in the sig for old posts to show your current one. )

 

Is having your server name spelled right part of moving to an intermediate level player?

 

rofl.

[Pvpnis]

1)@ OP - keyboard turning at times and keybinding is a play style preference not a accurate assumption of skill.

Its advanced preference. I have only seen 1 Mage click his way to 2600 for shts n gigz in WoW. But he had even said that clicking has far more slower reaction speed than binding. Which i agree with. A person can hit 2 binds before 1 ability is clicked. The same instance goes for a kb turn, you give up your backside. No1 likes getting bent over from a sin/rogue/thief whichever game you prefer.

[Floplag]

1)

 

@ OP - keyboard turning at times and keybinding is a play style preference not a accurate assumption of skill.

 

Hottie speaking the truth.

[kissingaiur]

Its advanced preference. I have only seen 1 Mage click his way to 2600 for shts n gigz in WoW. But he had even said that clicking has far more slower reaction speed than binding. Which i agree with. A person can hit 2 binds before 1 ability is clicked. The same instance goes for a kb turn, you give up your backside. No1 likes getting bent over from a sin/rogue/thief whichever game you prefer.

 

I use to think that too but I have met many, many players with weird set ups and play styles; clickers, hybrid clickers, weird joystick mouse (? wha?), using only a gaming pad, using only mouse to auto run etc. These were some of the talented players I have met in this game. I have no idea how they can pull off what they do by using those tools but they make it work.

 

What knowledge I picked up in my PvP experience in SWTOR: It really doesn't matter how you play. What mostly separates good players from bad is simply awareness and reaction time.

[Lhancelot]

What mostly separates good players from bad is simply awareness and reaction time.

 

This exactly.

[aerockyul]

Its advanced preference. I have only seen 1 Mage click his way to 2600 for shts n gigz in WoW. But he had even said that clicking has far more slower reaction speed than binding. Which i agree with. A person can hit 2 binds before 1 ability is clicked. The same instance goes for a kb turn, you give up your backside. No1 likes getting bent over from a sin/rogue/thief whichever game you prefer.

 

What good does hitting 2 binds over 1 click do? When I click an ability, I can't click another ability until the little global cooldown finishes, and while I'm waiting I can hit something that isn't part of the cooldown, or wait for the cooldown to stop while I'm spam clicking the ability so it'll fire instantly when the cooldown is done. Does keybinding and hitting two keys instead of two clicks override the cooldown? The second one doesn't interrupt the first one if it hits too soon?

 

If that's worded too awkwardly, let me rephrase the question...Does keybinding somehow circumvent the global cooldown in SWTOR?

[Amonkiratainted]

What good does hitting 2 binds over 1 click do? When I click an ability, I can't click another ability until the little global cooldown finishes, and while I'm waiting I can hit something that isn't part of the cooldown, or wait for the cooldown to stop while I'm spam clicking the ability so it'll fire instantly when the cooldown is done. Does keybinding and hitting two keys instead of two clicks override the cooldown? The second one doesn't interrupt the first one if it hits too soon?

 

If that's worded too awkwardly, let me rephrase the question...Does keybinding somehow circumvent the global cooldown in SWTOR?

 

I can answer that short:

 

No

 

BUT!! IMO, compairing clicky vs keybinding in an MMO PvP, is like compairing mouse users vs controller users in FPS games. Mouse > Controller users EVERY time in FPS.

[Qwurdilu]

What knowledge I picked up in my PvP experience in SWTOR: It really doesn't matter how you play. What mostly separates good players from bad is simply awareness and reaction time.

 

I highly disagree.

 

Its a common misunderstanding that situational awareness and reaction time has nothing to do with the proper setup. For good reasons, the skills required to do well in video games are often compared to those of a fighter pilot. If you ever have the chance to talk to one, they will agree that only a very small percentage of their performance is down to talent, most of their ability comes from proper training and preparation. emergency landing with two broken engines is no different from you beeing focused fired.

Knowing your jet/class in and out, knowing how to deal damage and how to move and be able to do this without thinking about it will increase you situational awareness. If you dont have too look at your skills, you can look at your buffs, enemys, map.

 

Now the problem is, in contradiction to jet pilots, for swtor there is no trainer and no simulator so you need the ability to be able to train yourself. Spotting and admitting your own weaknesses is key.

 

So the most important thing that seperates good players from bads is the will to constantly improve himself.

 

Dont acceppt your weakness and try to make it to one of your strength. You may easily overcome deficits on awareness and reaction time with proper training and preparation

In terms of ui this means you really should learn the most efficient ways to use abilities and that is keybinds. Never accept yourself to use a inferior design, because stagnation means regression. You may do well in warzones, but you wont be a good player .

Good players will exploit the **** out of you:

If that's worded too awkwardly, let me rephrase the question...Does keybinding somehow circumvent the global cooldown in SWTOR?

 

Theres way too much very important skills that are not affected by global cooldown. My favorite example is Stunbreaker and barrier (sorc). Lets assume someone nets you on 20%, you need to break the net first, then go barrier. Its impossible for clicker to be that fast. Even me using keybinds, i moved breaker for this class on my mouse because i felt having both on keyboard was still too slow.

Another good example would be sentinel. Lets say you play watchmen and fight a jugg. The moment you use merciless slash your previous zen stacks run out, so you use valerous call to get 30 stacks and use zen immeaditly and overload saber comes off cd so you have to use 4 abilities within one gcd. But wait! Lets say he starts to ravage you so you also usy pacify on him and to make sure you use transcendence.

That makes a total of 6 (!) abilities within one gcd, i doubt this can be done without proper set keybinds, let alone clicked.

But wait! Lets say you fight the healer and the juggs on you. So before you use pacify on jugg, you need to switch target to him, and right back after. So now we`re talking 8 (!) key presses withing one global cooldown.

Its very hard even for experienced players to pull this off, but again, right setup helps. If you anticipate that jugg will go after you, you may put him into focus target and use focus target modifier to target him fast for a pacify. That greatly increases reaction time and you`re back to "only" 7 keys to press.

 

tl;dr If you lack that proper setup, talent and reaction time will do little, because even the most talented players will struggle to compensate the lack of setup.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Qwurdilu

[Kaedusz]

Sometimes i keyboard turn when my right hand is dealing with my cigarette. Edited February 25, 2016 by Kaedusz

[zhezvya]

Can't imagine playing as a stealth class and clicking/keybord turning. You lose precious half second just to stealth out and then click on turret to start capping . Or what about stealing a pylon from a smart player who’s guarding 30-40 m away when you need to mezz him, then immediately phase walk back, stealth out and cap? I doubt that a clicker will manage to pull this off.

I'd say such classes as sin or operative won't forgive clicking. You may do well against non-experienced players, but I do not believe you can deal with a good PT under two speed buffs strafing around you and going through his binded 3-button rotation over and over.

Also, as Qwurdilu said previously, your self- awareness and reaction time improve the less you have to look at your skill bars and the more you react instinctively. Keybinder’s muscle memory gives one huge advantage over a clicker imo.

[Kaedusz]

Can't imagine playing as a stealth class and clicking/keybord turning. You lose precious half second just to stealth out and then click on turret to start capping . Or what about stealing a pylon from a smart player who’s guarding 30-40 m away when you need to mezz him, then immediately phase walk back, stealth out and cap? I doubt that a clicker will manage to pull this off.

I'd say such classes as sin or operative won't forgive clicking. You may do well against non-experienced players, but I do not believe you can deal with a good PT under two speed buffs strafing around you and going through his binded 3-button rotation over and over.

Also, as Qwurdilu said previously, your self- awareness and reaction time improve the less you have to look at your skill bars and the more you react instinctively. Keybinder’s muscle memory gives one huge advantage over a clicker imo.

+

 

Though funny thing is the game's mechanics don't punish clickers/backpeddlers/keyboard turners as much as it should.

 

For example when you go behind someone while he is casting, he turns automatically instead of the cast being interrupted.

Another example - too many instant abilities do too much damage, so backpeddlers are more effective than they should be.

Edited February 25, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Wimbleton]

I like to use huttball as a measure of how well someone can control and operate their character. Might sound weird, but I've found a direct correlation between skill beyond mashing dmg/healing buttons and huttball.

 

You cannot excel without SOME mouse control and SOME binds and if you can do huttball, I think you can make coordinated plays such as CCing at proper times, not breaking CCs, playing defensive at low health even when you don't have DCDs, cycling through HVTs when necessary. etc etc.

 

Those are the people I enjoy playing with.

[AlrikFassbauer]

Also spelling. I think maybe you meant "retargeting". (Now I hope I don't have any spelling mistakes in this. )

 

I was just... letter swapping. Yep. That's it. Letter swapping. Okay, sorry for the derail. It is a good thread if folks just actually think Intermediate Level, not the Things the Other People Do That Make Me Scream in Agony!!!!

 

Thanks.

 

Speaking of which, I been meaning to tell you, in your sig you have the server name "Harbinger" spelled as "Harbringer". This has tortured me for years now! Please fix it, Banderal before i go insane!

 

At least he didn't write "Hairbringer" !

Edited February 25, 2016 by AlrikFassbauer

[Dezarthanon]

I use to think that too but I have met many, many players with weird set ups and play styles; clickers, hybrid clickers, weird joystick mouse (? wha?), using only a gaming pad, using only mouse to auto run etc. These were some of the talented players I have met in this game. I have no idea how they can pull off what they do by using those tools but they make it work.

 

What knowledge I picked up in my PvP experience in SWTOR: It really doesn't matter how you play. What mostly separates good players from bad is simply awareness and reaction time.

 

There are clickers and hybrid clickers etc. who top the boards 95+% of the time in any function they are working towards be it dps, hps or objectives. Clickers etc who heal 6-7k hps in a reg match or deal 4k+ and can be on the pvp records charts etc. for a server.

 

Hottie is right that "not clicking" is not necessary to be a good player and certainly not necessary to be an "intermediate" player as suggested by the OP. The only thing I might say is that clicking will stop you from going higher than being in the top 3-4% but there are plenty of people who are totally fine with beating the rest of the field but that last few points.

 

BTW Hottie this is Solarien.

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[aerockyul]

Theres way too much very important skills that are not affected by global cooldown. My favorite example is Stunbreaker and barrier (sorc). Lets assume someone nets you on 20%, you need to break the net first, then go barrier. Its impossible for clicker to be that fast. Even me using keybinds, i moved breaker for this class on my mouse because i felt having both on keyboard was still too slow.

Another good example would be sentinel. Lets say you play watchmen and fight a jugg. The moment you use merciless slash your previous zen stacks run out, so you use valerous call to get 30 stacks and use zen immeaditly and overload saber comes off cd so you have to use 4 abilities within one gcd. But wait! Lets say he starts to ravage you so you also usy pacify on him and to make sure you use transcendence.

That makes a total of 6 (!) abilities within one gcd, i doubt this can be done without proper set keybinds, let alone clicked.

But wait! Lets say you fight the healer and the juggs on you. So before you use pacify on jugg, you need to switch target to him, and right back after. So now we`re talking 8 (!) key presses withing one global cooldown.

Its very hard even for experienced players to pull this off, but again, right setup helps. If you anticipate that jugg will go after you, you may put him into focus target and use focus target modifier to target him fast for a pacify. That greatly increases reaction time and you`re back to "only" 7 keys to press.

 

tl;dr If you lack that proper setup, talent and reaction time will do little, because even the most talented players will struggle to compensate the lack of setup.

 

I appreciate you taking the time to illustrate how keybinding helps vs. clicking. Most of the time when I'm reading the forums or playing the game and I'm curious how to better myself at pvp, simply telling people to "keybind or ****" in all its variations is offputting and makes me just not want to queue up at all. I've found I can be very effective in regs with clicking, and I don't ever plan to play ranked. But you have indeed given me food for thought and I will start training myself to at least use some keybinds and see how I progress. If anything I should try to incorporate all the little buttons I'm not using on my current mouse. I'm only using four and I believe there are at least two more.

[Floplag]

I appreciate you taking the time to illustrate how keybinding helps vs. clicking. Most of the time when I'm reading the forums or playing the game and I'm curious how to better myself at pvp, simply telling people to "keybind or ****" in all its variations is offputting and makes me just not want to queue up at all. I've found I can be very effective in regs with clicking, and I don't ever plan to play ranked. But you have indeed given me food for thought and I will start training myself to at least use some keybinds and see how I progress. If anything I should try to incorporate all the little buttons I'm not using on my current mouse. I'm only using four and I believe there are at least two more.

 

 

This is kinda 2 different things though.. his point appears to be more about a functional setup than it is about keybinding per se.

Assuming both players have a comfortable functional setup the difference is extremely minimal.

I use keybinds, i use a gamepad, i use a multi button mouse setup to various functions and i still suck so... it isnt a magic bullet. lol

[lavatsunami]

Uhm, I have a waaaay longer list of what I consider Intermediate level and it is based on the outcomes not how it is achieved, because I believe there are multiple ways & I don't care if it's by washing or by scrubbing that you get it.

 

1. Capable of moving in a precise direction without thinking about it and losing facing at the target

2. Able to pick objective while moving not stop then pick

3. Able to judge distances/range

4. Knowing which ability to use to interrupt a cap correctly without thinking

5. Fast and precise placement of the AoE

6. Monitors channels on the Focused target and/or target and interrupts during the 1/3 of the channel’s duration

7. Processes the CC animations fast enough to distinguish hard stun from a mezz and not break mezz

8. Retrageting fast and precisely, not at random

9. Not fumbling/freezing up/executing a knee jerk stun/toss in close quarters

10. Not looking down at the keyboard to execute an ability

11. Maintain a steady field of vision with no sudden, jerky, rotating changes of the view and zooms

12. Capable of staying on another player, both friend and enemy one

13. Capable of taking initiative, not being at a loss what to do

14. Able to prioritize abilities and utilities, having a drilled in movement that replaces the “Now WHAT?” automatically

15. Able to predict the enemy’s movement and redeploy preventively

16. Monitoring target for DCDs that are countering your AC

17. Seeing when you look

…

And many more, I am sure 

 

"There is now a level zero...."

[jambalayabungee]

Thanks for this thread, it's very helpful and constructive for us trying-to-be-intermediate pvp players haha.

I began pvp two months ago, I was pretty confused about the snow-grass calls and the inc calls and strategies in general and inside a wz its not really a good idea to ask for explanations lol. I improved now, and the forums tips are helping me a lot in that sense.

 

-- I wonder, why do you have to interrupt somebody at 1/3 of his channel ? What does it change from interrupting whenever else ?

 

-- I find pretty hard to keep track of all the abilites and buffs / debuffs of the other players in action. I'm watching videos and reading guides of other classes to be able to recognise the animations and icons related to certains important abilities and buffs at least, it could be a bit overwhelming tho.

Im dreaming of a video or pictures that would show all important abilities/procs/buffs visual FX and animations of all classes, but I cant find anything on the net really.

I guess I should play all classes to really be confortable with that ...

[Amonkiratainted]

Thanks for this thread, it's very helpful and constructive for us trying-to-be-intermediate pvp players haha.

I began pvp two months ago, I was pretty confused about the snow-grass calls and the inc calls and strategies in general and inside a wz its not really a good idea to ask for explanations lol. I improved now, and the forums tips are helping me a lot in that sense.

 

-- I wonder, why do you have to interrupt somebody at 1/3 of his channel ? What does it change from interrupting whenever else ?

 

-- I find pretty hard to keep track of all the abilites and buffs / debuffs of the other players in action. I'm watching videos and reading guides of other classes to be able to recognise the animations and icons related to certains important abilities and buffs at least, it could be a bit overwhelming tho.

Im dreaming of a video or pictures that would show all important abilities/procs/buffs visual FX and animations of all classes, but I cant find anything on the net really.

I guess I should play all classes to really be confortable with that ...

 

You are welcome Sometimes us PvP'ers forget, that many of the players in a WZ are newcommers to PvP (at least in SWTOR). And things get a little hotheaded

 

That being said - it is always good that you ask, if you got questions. Being in a WZ or not. You will find that there are always people who are willing to help and to answer them.

 

About all the abilities to keep track of: Usually you can see on the opponents character, if he/she has a proc or has popped a DCD (defensive cooldown) -

 

DCD: sometimes it looks like a blue sphere, other times a yellow sphere.

 

Procs: Usually around the opponents hands, i.e small red/blue spheres.

[Banderal]

I began pvp two months ago, I was pretty confused about the snow-grass calls...

 

The first time someone specifically directed me to "go snow" in a WZ I replied "which side is snow?". Instead of telling me, I got "sigh, nevermind". I thought, "Great. That took you more letters than if you had just typed which side, and now I STILL don't know which side it is."

 

-- I wonder, why do you have to interrupt somebody at 1/3 of his channel ? What does it change from interrupting whenever else ?

 

I don't know why specifically 1/3. I know some people wait until practically the last millisecond to do the interrupt. I tend to interrupt earlier because of a possibility of lag, or just that their team mate will Cc me and prevent me from interrupting later. The only time I'll deliberately wait longer is if I'm trying to let their resolved dissipate as much as possible so that I can combat-stealth and start mezzing them again (when solo guarding and waiting for help to arrive).

 

I guess I should play all classes to really be confortable with that ...

 

I have played all classes at one time or another, and I still will never keep track of all the buff pictures and what they all mean. That's why I will forever be stuck in mediocre-ville. Hopefully you will fair better than I do!

[Groncho]

just don't keep doing this rotation : 111111111111111111111111111111

try to change it to something more complicated like : 121212121212121212121 and maybe a random 3

Edited February 27, 2016 by Groncho

[yellow_]

Because it hasn't already been mentioned -- not brainlessly tunneling through guard. You will force far fewer DCDs to be used and put much less pressure on enemy healers attacking into guarded targets.

 

There are exceptions of course but I am honestly amazed sometimes by how many people will dogpile a teammate I am guarding just because they're a healer or have a little lower health than other nearby targets.