IndoJabijin Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Two different games and two different markets. The advantage of Guild Wars 2 is that it's buy to play and it's also a AAA mmorpg developed by a good company. Everyone and there mother will buy guild wars because it's buy to play. And it's also one of the primary reasons why it's so popular: people won't have to fork over 2 subcription fees. Buy the game once and you're set til the next expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dargor- Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 GW2, AKA overhyped diablo wannabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraunKrynn Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 This a long post written to give an unbiased, educated and possible theory on small changes SWTOR can implement over 3 months to compete with GW2’s impending release. I am, by no means, a person complaining about this game. The improvements to story and social aspects of the game really have made me a fan of the MMO genre once again (as opposed to just having something to do with my family, we actually have fun with the game.) This is a big thing for me to say, considering I was never going to buy SWTOR until December 5th, when my brother convinced me. I just didn’t read enough that would make it sound more innovative than Guild Wars 2 . However, it is not enough to stop me from wanting to play Guild Wars 2 because the major gripes are still there with MMOs (linear leveling zones, 1 and done quests, lack of spontaneity) star wars has 6 months at least, to implement game play options (not rehash the entire game, that’s impossible) that will make it able to compete with guild wars in terms of MMO innovation. There are four aspects that I see as clear advantages guild wars has over star wars. Below is a list of these advantages and realistic ways SWTOR could close the gap without too much “effort”. As a programmer, I tried to think of suggestions that do not require major game overhaul. That can easily be included as additional content or patch somewhere in a 6 month period. So yeah, I would love the elimination of the xp system, it’s not going to happen. Guild Wars has eliminated the holy trinity system SWTOR can not do this without rehauling their game. However, they can take the rift approach. SWTOR could allow multiple builds of characters. Another solution, is to allow players alts to become members of their crew, allowing players to easily change out characters using a quick logout-login process. Sure, DHT is still needed, but at least now players can more easily swap out builds for others. SWTOR could also implement new ability trees that blend and meld the trinity. Class options in SWTOR are limited. Guild Wars will not have traditional quests, instead quests will be stumbled upon in the open world and spawn dynamic content based on variables. This is a hard one for SWTOR to overcome, but not out of the realm of possible. SWTOR could use this time to develop a third or fourth faction in their mythos with one of them being non-playable. This extra faction could be “random invasions” that happen in areas on the planet, in zones and be varied very akin to Rift’s rifts. These variable encounters could be zone specific and allow for additional quest threads. This would be a great 6 month mark introduction and encourage people to replay earlier zones. The threat level could be triggered by an equation that calculates number of people in the zone. And it could come with penalities. Perhaps increasing the difficulty of zone monsters if it is failed or providing a boost to rewards if successful. These will last until the next invasion is triggered. (possibly by a number of reoccurring quests being performed). In order to counteract Guild Wars (no need for exclamation mark quest guy) these quests can be automatically provided to players ni the area with everyone receiving the same rewards or penalties. SWTOR could use the method they use to autoinstance content for classes and change the formula to autoinstance content based on level. Thus parties of a certain level on newer planets may get a completely different story. This would greatly encourage SWTOR’s effort to get people to create alts. Give players the option (via preferences-interface) to cut off quest objectives (such as collect 5 of this, or kill 3 of this). This feels like it would just be instituting a button that hides some content. Guild Wars will have autogrouping If Rift can do this, SWTOR should be able to. The #1 complaint now is people saying that they are not able to easily quest. Sure, I know this argument is lame. But most people are afraid to click on someone and rlight click invite for fear of rejection. Which is why Rift rocks. When you go into a zone, you have an option to join the public party and do the rift quests others are doing. This would be nice even now for heroic quests. Guild Wars will have multiple storylines per dungeon SWTOR should be able to truly flourish with this one, using true/false conditions, SWTOR could introduce new content in flashpoints based on decisions. For instance, when playing essex, I really wanted to kill the supposed traitor diplomat, what would have happened if I had that option. Currently, too many dialogue options mean nothing in the long run (but light and dark points). SWTOR already has a few quests that do this, open up quest chains with alternative endings. This sounds like the easiet thing to do in SWTOR. My hope is that bioware will clearly see that it is at a disadvantage with Guild Wars 2, and, just as it did to Rift/Wow, so will Guild Wars 2 do to them if they don’t have a few awesome patches before GW2 is released. So curious as to what others think. 1) I like the holy trinity system going all the way back to AD&D. You had at least 1 main fighter, 1 cleric, and the rest was dps. 2) GW2 will still have the same scenarios repeat. It's impossible not to. "Oh great the centaurs are attacking the village again." Still an alternative to the current questing system so...ok. 3) Auto grouping is a laziness feature. I'd rather choose my own group, and it's not the #1 complaint people are voicing. I'd say it's the combat responsiveness. Good try though. 4) There are multiple story lines in some of the flashpoints. My guess is you haven't reached 30 yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pewny Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 If you are in a queue like myself and want some decent reading: Jeff Strain, how to make a good MMO, GC Developer's Conference great read, thanks for sharing. everyone that plays games would do themselves a favor by reading this article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lycrates Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 1) Holy Trinity is a great system. In GW2 all classes have basically the same role, but have different mechanics. In an MMO, all players having the same role is boring because it significantly reduces the complexity and the types of encounter you have in a game. The Holy Trinity is awesome, althought SWTOR could have improved on the roles of healers (looking at green bars all the time is not cool) and Tanks (should be more than just argo meatbags). 2) Guild Wars 2 will have no endgame PvE, like Operations or Raids. So basically GW2 is a PvP oriented game. Thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephismo Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Guild wars is not available yet so there is no competition:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esaru Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) What you have done is posted a video of what looks like the isolated pvp of GW2. For instance, if I post just the PVP game iin SWTOR, you could make the same argument. Actually, GW2's PVP will be relatively the same as SWTOR. GW2 is a PVE game. So far, gameplay and demos have showed the same branch questing and the same type of combat system as SWTOR. I really wish folk would get off the fanboy highhorse and seriously look at this from a non-biased angle. I have 3 accounts for SWTOR at 300 dollars for the whole set and 45 bucks a month. Obviously i think its a good game. "I really wish folk would get off the fanboy highhorse and seriously look at this from a non-biased angle. " "I have 3 accounts for SWTOR at 300 dollars for the whole set and 45 bucks a month. Obviously i think its a good game." can't even see the seething irony in this, rofl And you're just simply wrong, too. GW2 is going to have server vs. server vs. server open world PVP with a middle no man's land. Arenas. Regular battlegrounds. And I actually laughed when you said it's the same combat as SWTOR. You REALLY have no idea what you're talking about, do you? Edited December 28, 2011 by Esaru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qoojo Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 First, GW2 has to be released before the comparisons can begin, because those mythical unreleased games are impossible to beat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtletaub Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 as much as im enjoying TOR, I Know GW2 will be a revolutionary step for MMOs and am really looking forward to playing it. ^^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Guild wars is not available yet so there is no competition:D Also I bet these people said the same thing about SWTOR. How it would be the most uber of uber games etc. Then reality came crashing down and they realized its just a game. GW2 will be the same thing. They hype it up to be something better than what it is then buy it and complain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptwonline Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I really have my doubts about some of GW2's "innovations". The dynamic event questing they keep hyping vs the static exclamation over NPC's heads I can't see working well. And people seem to think that they are getting rid of the trinity but really, they aren't. What I see in GW2 are some ideas that may work and show a way to bridge to the next gen of MMOs which will be more action-based and immersive instead of the almost purely stat-based and somewhat uninvolved combat of the current generation of MMOs. Basically, more like a Skyrim version of an MMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndoJabijin Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 (edited) In an MMO, all players having the same role is boring because it significantly reduces the complexity and the types of encounter you have in a game. All the classes in GW2 are able to fill all the roles, which are currently damage/support/control. It does not make for a dull experience and it does not REDUCE the level of complexity. If anything it increases it because you're no longer depending on anyone to heal you, and you're no longer depending on anyone to take damage for you. The encounters in the game require positioning, timing, and strategy as opposed to taking the mob in the opposite direction and only letting the tank damage it for a few minutes when the boss gets down to 15% health because of some stupid AoE. It also encourages players to step out of their comfort zone and experience different types of gameplay. Anyone who will play the game determined to be pure DPS will be severity gimped if they don't switch roles on the fly in both PvP and PvE. That's what makes it dynamic and unpredictable... unlike the holy trinity. Edited December 28, 2011 by IndoJabijin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontadow Posted December 30, 2011 Author Share Posted December 30, 2011 1) Holy Trinity is a great system. In GW2 all classes have basically the same role, but have different mechanics. In an MMO, all players having the same role is boring because it significantly reduces the complexity and the types of encounter you have in a game. The Holy Trinity is awesome, althought SWTOR could have improved on the roles of healers (looking at green bars all the time is not cool) and Tanks (should be more than just argo meatbags). 2) Guild Wars 2 will have no endgame PvE, like Operations or Raids. So basically GW2 is a PvP oriented game. Thats all. Never, in any tabletop game, has there been a healer, dps, tank system that operated so 1 dimensional. I would have to slap my DM if every boss I fought, i, the fighter coudl distract them so the cleric could heal me and the mage could launch a fireball. It's like if every platform game involved me jumping on a creature's head. That's pretty much what's been going on with MMOs for 10 years. Every boss I've ever fought the fight goes the same way, there's little strategy. A cleric in Dnd can heal, fight, support, and do a boatload of other stuff. Fighters can be designed a boatload of different ways, not as a distractor. They can be damage dealers, support a 100 different ways etc. Everything I've read suggests the opposite about guild wars. They have no plans for endgame item questing, but plan to continue pve beyond 80 by creating large scale open world quests (akin to Rift's Adventure's that they just released). When i suggested that pvp would work like star wars, i mean in the sense that you will go to another instanced area for most pvp. The battlegrounds you speak of are like the battle world in swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcyon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) as much as im enjoying TOR, I Know GW2 will be a revolutionary step for MMOs and am really looking forward to playing it. This! I feel the same way! Edited December 30, 2011 by karcyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 GW2 is going to be mostly for the PvP crowd, which is fine. It's a different market from SWTOR, but it does have an overlap with WoW's market, which has a substantial PvP piece to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grrl Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 GW 2 will possible revolutionize the genre. SWTOR at its current state and the lack of speedy fixes, fixes which are present since a long time, will probably resort to a model liek RIFT is today. However SWTOR could be more, but it needs a huge afford and many hours of work. And i feel that the game designer should so something he never before did. He possible shoudl get in touch with meh, seriously:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stelakh Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Guild wars is fantasy still and most people are bored of been an elf. Star wars has the advantage of been star wars and not high fantasy. Are you kidding? SW is Science Fantasy. People think it's Science Fiction, but it's not. It's fantasy, pure and plain. Having an Elf character in the story is not a requisite of fantasy. Having ridiculous things like a mystical "Force" (that it turns out is really just like... blood bugs), weapons that are scientifically impossible (lightsabres, anyone? Death Star's huge multi-beam-turning-into-one-beam weapon, anyone?), and a creator willing to raid both the western and eastern canons and slap them together ham-fistedly to throw banal archetypes into sophomoric settings? Hate to break it to you, but that's high fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I never liked the first GW's, so i might look at GW 2 way down the road, but I am so burned out on sword and board fantasy game, sick of elves, dwarves and the like, TOR was a good thing for me I see no other MMO type game to leave it for.. at least for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evilidea Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 IMHO all SWTOR needed to do to compete/beat GW2 was launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxramas Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm a die-hard Guild Wars fan who's currently playing SWTOR until GW2 releases, cant wait ^.^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranberries Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 GW will fail. It wont have endgame raiding. It's PvP will be imbalanced simply due to the fact it's going to be designed as it is. People need to wonder why MMOs are hard to balance. You give a class X, Y and Z while every other class has X and Y and the class with X, Y and Z is automatically OP. It's like Resto Shaman, Warlock and Rogue 3v3 teams in WoW: they all have CC that doesn't DR. The Resto Shaman, Warlock and Rogue have the ability to switch instantly (redirect / soul swap). Honestly, GW2 will not work. It wont be balanced. If it's not balanced everyone will roll Class A and thus the game will be terrible, as MMOs require variety to be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxtrotmikelima Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 You can't buy power in GW2, only cosmetic stuff, in fact, you can play all your life without paying for anything other than expansions, and still compete with everyone since there is no gear grind in the game at all, the basic endgame gear stats should be fairly easy to get. Also any form of open PvP in GW2 will be better than SWTOR as it currently is And with a Free To Play Model, how long do you think that will last? The moment the company gets enough people wrapped up in the concept of playing the game for free. They will throw slow but enticing tidbits of pay to win in until they have full on gear they can sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxramas Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 And with a Free To Play Model, how long do you think that will last? The moment the company gets enough people wrapped up in the concept of playing the game for free. They will throw slow but enticing tidbits of pay to win in until they have full on gear they can sell. Have you even looked into ArenaNet at all? try not assume that type of stuff without a little research, the first Guild Wars is still making money with only cosmetic items in the store. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDCowboy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Is this a joke? GW2 may or may not be a very good game but in terms of competing, there is none. SWTOR is a blockbuster game. GW2 isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxramas Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Is this a joke? GW2 may or may not be a very good game but in terms of competing, there is none. SWTOR is a blockbuster game. GW2 isn't. Just wondering, what, in your mind, do you consider a blockbuster game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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