Poor Sportsmanship running rampant in Ops and PvP

[-PassingStar-]

My game is "my game." I don't seek to intentionally ruin others' game play, but I don't care if you are miserable playing the game. Your fun is your responsibility, not mine.

...is code for - I'll do what i want and say what I want because... because i can.

Edited February 14, 2016 by -PassingStar-

[Pagy]

Granted, I'm relatively new to MMO's, but I've notice a rather nasty trend when it comes to the behavior of certain players within PvP WarZones and Ops. For them the slightest mistake, by anyone, warrants a nasty ( profanity laden ) whisper or group wide remark that includes anything from questioning ones sexual orientation, a racial slur, and/or their lack of genitalia. - no it's not funny, and if you think it is then you're one of the ones I'm talking about.

oh no! words!

[Steefr]

It's always been my experienced that the player that do the complaining/harassing are actually quite bad themselves. Really good/capable players either take the time to explain or go on and carry. Ofc this is not 100% true but has been my experience mostly.

 

Those people that try to kick people in sm's or insult other players, are the players i kick/don't want in my raid. If you tell me you're new, i'll explain things (short or longer depending on my mood) and if other people in group try to **** on them, then the complainers get kicked. And i'd say 98% of the pugs i join, complete the op.

[Pagy]

...is code for - I'll do what i want and say what I want because... because i can.

this is wrong because...?

[-PassingStar-]

oh no! words!

this is wrong because...?

Because people have killed themselves over cruel remarks made in MMOs. The fact that someone feels justified in telling another person that they're worthless, or they should kill themselves is shameful. furthermore, the very people who have the nerve to say such hurtful things couldn't care less about the possible repercussions. Which is frightening.

 

If you told someone to go kill themselves, and they did, wouldn't you feel remorseful? Not responsible, just remorseful. A moral person would. ( we can't control what other people might do, but we do have the power to ask ourselves.... is saying "X" reasonable? Or should I just let it go? )

 

It all just comes down to treating each other with a little dignity and respect. Is it really so hard to just be decent to one another?

Edited February 14, 2016 by -PassingStar-

[btmart]

My raid team always takes time to talk someone new to the op through each fight, as long as they are geared well enough for the fight. The only time they get the boot is if they aren't geared or refuse to listen and causing problems.

 

Seems the ones that I've ran with that are mostly this way are the guys who all they do is pug, and don't have a guild or a group of guys they regularly run with. At least that seems to be the case most of the time.

[auroroavalor]

Are those vote kicks for story mode Ops or hard mode?

 

Vote kicks are entirely justified in hard more or nightmare Ops where knowing the encounter should be part of the prerequisite. They are not justified at all however for storymode Ops. Storymode Ops are where players unfamiliar with the Op are supposed to be. They are the starting points for raiding, where players new to either raiding in general or that particular Op should go until they are familiar with the operation

 

If a veteran player joins a storymode OP and can't handle playing with new players who haven't run the content before, that veteran player is in the wrong place. That's why there are HM Ops. Hard Mode is a more challenging Op designed for people who are familiar with the base operation already.

 

Nothing grinds my gears like people trying to initiate a vote kick in a storymode Op when someone pipes up and says they've not run the content before. The people initiating those vote kicks are the ones deserving of the kick, not the newbie. Hard mode and above of course is a different story.

 

There are times of course that a new player might be deserving of a vote kick from a storymode PUG, but not for simply saying, "I haven't run this before." Vote kicks for inexperience in storymode ops are part of the toxic atmosphere in raid content.

 

I have absolutely no issues carrying new players through ops, or explaining mechanics, however if you come into a SM with no grasp of your classes rotation and we are clearly lacking DPS I will vote kick you, if you think you can do EV and KP HM because you got carried once on your 450 accuracy DPS I will kick you, if you repeatedly pull before the tank after being told not to I will kick you, because now you're lack of ability or game knowledge is impacting on my fun.

 

You can talk about bad sportsmanship in game, but if you sign up to a Sunday league football team, the expectation is you know how to play football, and if you don't, you won't be welcome back.

[Aeneas_Falco]

I have absolutely no issues carrying new players through ops, or explaining mechanics, however if you come into a SM with no grasp of your classes rotation and we are clearly lacking DPS I will vote kick you, if you think you can do EV and KP HM because you got carried once on your 450 accuracy DPS I will kick you, if you repeatedly pull before the tank after being told not to I will kick you, because now you're lack of ability or game knowledge is impacting on my fun.

 

You can talk about bad sportsmanship in game, but if you sign up to a Sunday league football team, the expectation is you know how to play football, and if you don't, you won't be welcome back.

 

People deserve to be kicked if they aren't making an effort at being a team player, by ignoring the instructions necessary to get through the OP. I.E., continuing to knock CC'd NPCs out of CC when warned not to, or continuing to pull before the tank. Ect, Ect.

 

That's quite a bit different however from someone piping up at the start of an SM OP and saying its their first time though, and without hesitation some tool or two initiates the vote kick. I'm not saying there aren't legit reasons to vote kick someone, new or otherwise, but demanding that everyone in a SM Op should know the fight is just plain douchebaggery by players who forget that once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away...they also hadn't run that OP 57 times.

 

It also shows a complete lack of self-awareness, if these are the same people complaining about lack of raid content or long wait times in forming ops groups. The only way to keep raiding viable is by new people continually replacing the old who inevitably drift off to other games. Want the devs to develop new content for raiders? The raid community needs to grow and Bioware's internal data needs to show that a lot of people are running the existing content. Neither of those things are going to happen if new players show up to play and are repeatedly being told to **** off by Founder grognards.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Aeneas_Falco

[ludoviccb]

That's quite a bit different however from someone piping up at the start of an SM OP and saying its their first time though, and without hesitation some tool or two initiates the vote kick. I'm not saying there aren't legit reasons to vote kick someone, new or otherwise, but demanding that everyone in a SM Op should know the fight is just plain douchebaggery by players who forget that once upon a time in a galaxy far, far away...they also hadn't run that OP 57 times.

.

 

I've started some votes to kick some people after the first mob, some times even before it,.

 

The first exemple was a guy on a commando in SM EV, queued as DPS, using plasma cell, in 216/220 coms tank gear and using a commando heal ability. Could the group have cleared the content with that guy in group? Yes, no problem since a guildmate and myself were on our main and we could have 2 dpsed the entire thing.

 

The second exemple is in the HM FP, Boarding Party. Got a Assassin Tank 1st mob, he pull and died before he heal could do anything, it's then that I inspected him. He was without a shield, with no force form activated and in dps/heal gear augmented with alacrity. I whispered him, if he had some tank gear after that 1st mob and got no anwser and he pulled the 2nd mob. He got kicked at that point, because he pulled the 2nd mob(and died in 3s) when I was starting the vote to kick.

 

I've got no problem with teaching people in pug group how to do a FP or an Operation if they never did it before. What I expect from people that use GF is to have some understanding of the class and role that they are playing. It's not my place to teach them in a pug group, how to gear themselves, which role their discipline is for, the most basic rotation for their discipline or how to fill their chosen role in the Trinity with a minimum of success. If it's a guildmate, I'll teach them those things, outside of group content, but not for a pug that queued/joinned a GF run.

 

There should be a checkpoint before they can even queue for HM flashpoint and SM Operations that they meet the basic requirements for those. Otherwise, it's just setting them up to fail since they don't know any better.

 

I will point them to the ressources to learn, but I'm not one to carry someone in a pug group that doesn't have any idea what he is doing with his toon. It's not doing him a favor to carry him and let him think that he is able to do that content when it's the other people in the group that do all the work.

 

It's mostly dps that are able to be carried someone else since 1 good dps can carry 1 bad in most HM FP and 1 excellent dps can easily carry 2 or even 3 bad dps depending of the operation boss. I've personnally saw a case for the 1st boss of EV sm, where 1 dps did 50% of the damage on the boss and the two tanks together did another 20%. The other 3 dps with the 2 healers did 30% of the damage on the boss and we barely beat the enrage.

Edited February 15, 2016 by ludoviccb

[-PassingStar-]

I've started some votes to kick some people after the first mob, some times even before it,.

I've vote kicked players for various reasons. It happens. As long as you're fair and honest about why you've decided to remove them from the group, you're not doing anything wrong.

 

The thread is about those players who will purposefully make cruel remarks to others whom they feel are not "good" players. Its just bad form.

Edited February 15, 2016 by -PassingStar-

[Kaedusz]

Today i was spamming wzs for conquest points. Sorry but when bads ruin a bunch of wzs with their horribleness sometimes i name call. Rarely though. And it's always on topic and not very personal. Never a wisp too.

 

In PvE on the other hand, i see no reason to be toxic in any way,shape or form. If someone is causing too many problems just boot him. Problem solved.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Kaedusz

[Khryn]

Just laugh it off.

 

Last night I was in Voidstar. On my Sentinel. 4 imp Operative surround me. One sin hits the door. Of course I was instantly CC"d. Popped my CC breaker and was immediately CC"d again. They get the door.

Some dude starts screaming at me to interrupt next time. Called me names, told me to L2P, etc etc.

 

I laughed and admittedly, I antagonized a bit too. But I made sure I played hard. When the scoreboard came up he was at the bottom of nearly every category, I was at the top. A simple "If you are going to tell people to L2P, at least make sure you aren't at the bottom of every category yourself."

 

Most players in this game are mild mannered and just want to have fun... But every once in a while, you get that one guy that feels he is invincible behind his computer screen.

[Pagy]

Because people have killed themselves over cruel remarks made in MMOs. The fact that someone feels justified in telling another person that they're worthless, or they should kill themselves is shameful.

if people are harming themselves over words in a star wars video game i fail to see how that's the accountability of anyone other than themselves.

society / sjw do everything they can to point the finger at everyone except themselves. sorry you aren't entitled to a safe space.

furthermore, the very people who have the nerve to say such hurtful things couldn't care less about the possible repercussions. Which is frightening.

why are they accountable exactly? because you said so?

If you told someone to go kill themselves, and they did, wouldn't you feel remorseful? Not responsible, just remorseful. A moral person would. ( we can't control what other people might do, but we do have the power to ask ourselves.... is saying "X" reasonable? Or should I just let it go? )

well i wouldnt say that to someone but if i did sure i'd feel terrible.

It all just comes down to treating each other with a little dignity and respect. Is it really so hard to just be decent to one another?

you're not entitled to anything, sorry.

[-PassingStar-]

you're not entitled to anything, sorry.

It's sad that the anti-entitlement movement that has taken hold in recent years has grown beyond its intended purpose ( reducing fraud in social services ), and become a battle cry for those who can't be bothered with treating random people ( strangers in-game and RL ) with a modicum of human decency. - Social apathy at its worst.

 

I may not agree with your opinion on this issue, but that doesn't mean that you're not "entitled" to be treated with respect.

[jimmorrisson]

Do not respond to anyone who spends the entire group's time complaining out others in chat. Quit group silently the put the individual(s) on ignore.

 

Players which behave this way are not viewed favorably amongst other players.

[mikebevo]

• Don't fully understand how the role they've chosen is supposed to be played. ( rotation, gearing )

I can agree with most of what you are saying, but totally disagree with this. Does someone that shows the utter disrespect for the group by coming in without the basic knowledge of their class, role and abilities really deserve the groups respect? Now I agree with you to not cuss them out or belittle them, but outside of a guild run, a pug group should not have to teach someone their class or role. They should respect the community enough to at least know how to basically play the class and role they have chosen. Not saying they have to be perfect. Not saying they have to be even good at it, just they should know the basics before entering group play. Basics are very easy to come by with internet access and anyone play the game has internet access. SM ops are stupid easy as long as you know the basics of your class and role. I find it disrespectful to the group and their time to expect them to teach someone both the instance and their class and role. I have no problem with teaching the instance. I have do problem giving tips on healing (my normal role), but I'm not going to waste the groups time trying to teach someone how to completely play the game in a operation. The want to learn that, I will help them outside of a operation, not in one. Group content is not about the individual and their enjoyment, it is about the entire groups enjoyment. Edited February 15, 2016 by mikebevo

[-PassingStar-]

Do not respond to anyone who spends the entire group's time complaining out others in chat. Quit group silently the put the individual(s) on ignore.

 

Players which behave this way are not viewed favorably amongst other players.

Why would you leave because of one disruptive person? Wouldn't it be better to ask that individual to stop, and then if they don't, open a vote-to-kick them from the group?

 

You're right, most complainers are not well liked, so if the request to STHU doesn't work I guarantee the V2K will. - I speak from experience.

[-PassingStar-]

I can agree with most of what you are saying, but totally disagree with this. Does someone that shows the utter disrespect for the group by coming in without the basic knowledge of their class, role and abilities really deserve the groups respect?

As a player? No, they don't. As a human being, sitting behind a keyboard, yes. Unquestionably. You may not like that they've queued for something they may not be ready for, but that doesn't give you the right to be cruel or disrespectful.

 

If you suspect someone is ill-prepared for an Op or Fp, check their achievements and gear ( only takes a few moments ). If you find something that concerns you then whisper them and be direct, not argumentative, just direct. Based on the answer make a judgement call. "are they really ready for this?" If you don't think so, tell them, and start a vote-to-kick.

 

There is nothing wrong with removing someone from a group. It's the way in-which the process is done that makes all the difference.

 

Good way....

 

• This is a HM Op and you're a tank with no shield. Do you have one? ( answers back - no ) Ok, we need to find someone else. Sorry.

 

Poor way...

 

• You sorry POS! WTH are you doing? Stupid piece of trash! Gonna boot your worthless ****!

[squirrelballz]

It's sad that the anti-entitlement movement that has taken hold in recent years has grown beyond its intended purpose ( reducing fraud in social services ), and become a battle cry for those who can't be bothered with treating random people ( strangers in-game and RL ) with a modicum of human decency. - Social apathy at its worst.

 

I may not agree with your opinion on this issue, but that doesn't mean that you're not "entitled" to be treated with respect.

 

Sadly this is very true and I agree with you 100 percent.

 

[mikebevo]

Why would you leave because of one disruptive person? Wouldn't it be better to ask that individual to stop, and then if they don't, open a vote-to-kick them from the group?

In a pug group someone is being abusive towards others. I send a whisper to the one they are being abusive to about /ignore feature. No reason to kick or be kicked when you don't have to listen to that crap. At the end I will ignore the abusive person. I have also been known to let the person die since they are obliviously not doing their role with all the typing they are doing, but only if I know the group can win even with them dead. Love healing

 

Kicking someone just slows down the group.

 

You may not like that they've queued for something they may not be ready for, but that doesn't give you the right to be cruel or disrespectful.

Never said anything about being cruel or disrespectful to anyone, but not being prepared by knowing class and role is being disrespectful to group. Does mean I will be cruel or disrespectful to them. I have only vote kicked one person in game. It wasn't because the were unprepared or because they sucked. It was because they were cussing out someone else.

 

 

I've been cussed out too. Someone died because of Lava Falls in EV and he/she belittled both healers. I never ignored that guy. I put him on friends list so I could lol every time he came online.

Edited February 15, 2016 by mikebevo

[-PassingStar-]

Kicking someone just slows down the group.

This is very true, but sometimes it's necessary. In a SM Op you can often get away with 3 DPS or even 2, or 1 healer or 1 tank, but in HM a reduced group can also slow things down. Sometimes it's just better to kick, and wait for a replacement.

 

You're point is still valid.

[squirrelballz]

To the people on this thread who think that every human being doesn't deserve to be treated with respect and decency I feel nothing but pity for you and your attitude.

 

"No matter how skilled, educated, talented, rich, or cool you believe you are, how you treat people ultimately tells all. INTEGRITY IS EVERYTHING."

 

[Khevar]

To the people on this thread who think that every human being doesn't deserve to be treated with respect and decency I feel nothing but pity for you and your attitude.

On the one hand, I will try very hard to treat others with respect in a pug flashpoint or pug operation. If someone is a newbie, I'll explain fights. If someone wants to watch cutscenes, I'll watch along with it. If someone is having trouble, I'll ask if they need help or advice.

 

On the other hand, when I was a newbie in this game, it was very important TO ME to never be a drag on the group. I spent time on the forums, reading advice on how to play in a group. I learned about kill order and CC. I asked questions in the class forums about how to play better.

 

Respect and decency goes both ways.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Khevar

[TUXs]

C'mon, give these people a break. This game needs new players, and treating them like crap isn't going to compel them to stay.

Wiser words have never been spoken. It happens (sadly) in every MMO...the vets become the games biggest hurdle to attracting new players.

[squirrelballz]

Wiser words have never been spoken. It happens (sadly) in every MMO...the vets become the games biggest hurdle to attracting new players.

 

Quoted for truth and because more than anything if we want NEW OPS an NEW PVP maps then we need young blood to feed the BW metrics. If they don't see their new players and players in general running OPS/PVP then they are fully justified in their actions of not creating new content. If you want to play with experienced players find your own group of friends and run with them. It wont kill you to help someone out who knows they may even thank you and pay it forward, in life and in everything else you get what you give.

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by squirrelballz