Why such Koth hatred?

[Codedrago]

Don't you dare bad-mouthing Mission by comparing her to Koth

 

I missed that....

DON'T BADMOUTH MISSION! When Vette get's back, she'll be offended!

[SFDebris]

Nope. He isn't a reflection is the problem. So there you are. Just fresh out of the carbonite, still suffering the affects of the poison / hibernation sickness. You are stumbling through a strange world, filled with people who want to kill you. Some crazy chic decides to throw a reactor ball at you. Why? Because, she can. And you have two options. RUN like hell (Lana says you should and you atleast know her) or risk your life, while you are ill, to save people who want you dead (Koth says you should but you haven't even seen his face). That is the start of your problems with Koth.

 

"You demand that *I* fix the reactor? Why of course! Obviously I, someone who doesn't know what year it is, can fix an alien technology I've never heard of that's so broken the people responsible for it deemed this hopeless and ran off. Perhaps I should just reverse the flow of time to ensure the disaster never happened and will the enemy guns to fire only sweet delicious chocolate chips while I'm at it?"

 

Koth: "You know that one out of three Zakuul people are allergic to chocolate, you monster! Now fix the reactor that you were neither responsible for damaging nor qualified to fix or I will blame you and you alone for it. And hurry, I have to crash another ship and blame Lana for it."

[AKHadeed]

What? It's true.

 

They're both yappy, don't over-think things, cute, care more about their near and dear than outsiders, get upset when you make mean choices, wear 'quirky' clothes... Mission and Koth both fill the "chipper rogue" slot, with a bit of the kicked puppy.

Edited February 14, 2016 by AKHadeed

[Codedrago]

What? It's true.

 

They're both yappy, don't over-think things, cute, care more about their near and dear than outsiders, get upset when you make mean choices, wear 'quirky' clothes... Mission and Koth both fill the "chipper rogue" slot, with a bit of the kicked puppy.

 

Yeah, but Missions cooler, more open minded and they do a good job of bringing in the feels when she confronts her brother.

Maybe if Bioware give Koth a 'sad' scene...

[Jinook_Phi]

I really like KOTH, I feel like I got Will Smith with me when I quest with him. Who cares what other people think. If you like him, have take him along, have fun. He's your companion- yes?

[AKHadeed]

Cooler is so very subjective.

 

I like both of them, and find them fairly similar.

[Swingkittie]

Many are saying about his Valkorian praises through the chapters and I get that. However, on some of the choices where you tell Koth he hero worships a monster, his reply "he was always good to Zakuul" is said in a naive tone and his look is like he is thinking on your words. And if you use Valkorian's power and Koth is there to see it, his response in utter dismay, "was that Valkorian?" I think it is him seeing the madness and evil that his beloved emperor can inflict. Although he doesn't seem to get mad at your character for killing thousands of people by using Valkorian's power, but later if you act on your own initiative to kill people that is different. I picked some dark side regarding Koth because I wanted to see how it plays out. My free 60, which I really don't care about, and my sith warrior who is just pure evil anyway. However, even my DS inquisitor didn't destroy the spire. I think it is how you want to play your character.

[Nefla]

I dont disagree he is a hypocrite. The player is too, if he thinks he can hurt zakuulians but gets upset over zakuul hurting republic/empire. He is, in many cases, the players mirror.

 

If we dont like an NPC, we dismiss him, or even kill him.

If the NPC doesnt like us, he dismisses us just the same.

Yet, we only get upset if an NPC hurts us/leaves us or is angry at us, but we couldnt care less if we hurt and anger or dismiss/kill an NPC.

Ironic isnt it, this talk of hypocrisy.

 

I agree. If the players were in a position where they told an NPC/companion to do something that would save a lot of people that the player cared about but the NPC was like "screw this, I'm saving my own skin! Let those people die" then you can bet the player wouldn't be all "oh ok, that's fine." The player would be pissed that the people they like died because the companion was too lazy/cowardly/a failure/whatever to help and more importantly they would be pissed that the companion didn't listen to them. The player wouldn't welcome that companion in as a friend, they'd want nothing to do with them.

[Myracarrah]

It's not even about Valkorian. He likes the Emperor. Okay. I disagree with him, but it's my character's brain the Emperor crawled into. When Valkorian crawls into Koth's head then and only then can he have an opinion of the Emperor.

 

It's that there is a war brewing. The Outlander's Alliance vs Arcann and his ships. Koth has two choices, side with Arcann the evil dictator or side with the Outlander (who might be good, evil, or so-so). If Koth just hated my dark side Inq, it would make perfect sense. But he gave my light side BH trouble because the BH agreed with Scorpio and Senya.

 

Basically if you disagree with Koth over anything, he throws a tantrum like a spoiled five year old. For those who don't have small children the tantrum goes something like this I hate you! You're mean to me! I don't want to eat dinner! I want chicken nuggets and drumsticks are yucky! If you don't let me have chicken nuggets I won't be your friend!

 

So to apply that tantrum to Koth - I hate you! You're mean to me! I don't want to follow orders! I want the Gravestone, Alliance ships are yucky! If you don't let me have the Gravestone I won't be your friend!

 

I could put up with the part where he thinks he is morally superior from a superior people.. if he would stop proving his own inferiority by throwing tantrums like a child.

[Tashia]

all of my toons are light side IV or better -- I just don't like killing innocent people, for whatever reasons --- Koth doesn't really bother me, afterall, I'M the one with Valkorian in their head, not him .... it's my ultimate decision which way this will go, not him

[Nefla]

I would "throw a tantrum" too if someone let a bunch of civilians die and then later actively KILLS a bunch of civilians themselves because lulz.

[DayneDrak]

For me, Koth represents the SWJ and White Knight mindset, so doing stuff to piss him off brings me joy.

[Max_Killjoy]

I would "throw a tantrum" too if someone let a bunch of civilians die and then later actively KILLS a bunch of civilians themselves because lulz.

 

It's not so much that he objects to the PC doing it -- it's that he simultaneously gives Vitiate Sue a free pass for doing far worse on a scale orders of magnitude larger. All while being an insecure self-centered twerp.

[ZanyaCross]

It's not so much that he objects to the PC doing it -- it's that he simultaneously gives Vitiate Sue a free pass for doing far worse on a scale orders of magnitude larger. All while being an insecure self-centered twerp.

 

Quoted for truth. I really wish there was an option to take him to Ziost to show him what his beloved Valkorion did.

Edited February 14, 2016 by ZanyaCross

[PorsaLindahl]

Another reason to dislike him: Sent him out on a crew skill mission and his response was a sarcastic "Like I don't have better things to do."

 

No, you stupid son of a womp rat, you don't. Now get to scrounging, you lazy, good for nothing, naive moron!

[AKHadeed]

I don't think he's exactly insecure, what with all the wise-cracking.

 

I ALSO wish there was a chance to talk a bit more about Ziost, but I'm sure that's being saved for down the line. I, for one, really want to go there in upcoming chapters with Valky.

[AKHadeed]

Another reason to dislike him: Sent him out on a crew skill mission and his response was a sarcastic "Like I don't have better things to do."

 

No, you stupid son of a womp rat, you don't. Now get to scrounging, you lazy, good for nothing, naive moron!

 

Also, holy buckets, I am insanely thrilled that everyone has crew skill barks now. I didn't realize how much I needed it until it was there. While Talos and Pierce are my go-to crafters (Pierce because I'm a PvPer and he LURVES me, and Talos because he is my one-true-boo and gets a lion's share of the presents), it's super nice to have the new guys talk.

Edited February 14, 2016 by AKHadeed

[HerrAwesome]

My problem with Koth is that, unlike every character in all of the other Star Wars properties, he doesn't have the good sense to openly obey the Sith Lord.

 

He openly defies me and I can't force choke him or kill him.

 

I do not tolerate insubordination, but I'm being forced to. The heart of the problem is bad, terrible writing, but Koth is the face of that bad, terrible writing.

[Latherfal]

He didn't have any funny lines. I don't recall any at least. 'Gotta have a sense of humor if your hanging out with the Outlander.

[Myracarrah]

I would "throw a tantrum" too if someone let a bunch of civilians die and then later actively KILLS a bunch of civilians themselves because lulz.

 

I saved the first bunch on every character but my DS inq. I let the refugees on my ship on every one of my characters (including the Inq for 'reasons'). I sometimes sided with him for the Heralds. I sometimes sided with Senya depending on my char. So my marauder let's Kaliyo push a button and Koth flips out and leaves.

 

The mara's crime? Not scolding the psycho bald chic for being a psycho bald chic?

 

So my character didn't let a bunch of civilians die. And my character didn't kill the next batch of hapless civlians. Basically my char just didn't care enough about Zakuul to stop Kaliyo. Not sure my character cares enough about Kaliyo to keep other Alliance characters from shoving her over the cliff edge... but fairly sure the marauder isn't motivated enough to push her over the edge herself.

 

Now Koth as former military admitted he followed his orders until he defected. So was he part of the team that went to Coruscant or Dromund Kaas? Maybe he helped so the Gormak children all died? Heck maybe he was a desk jockey who just ordered the munitions for blowing up Republic and Empire worlds.

 

The problem with the Zakuul citizens to my marauder in particular is they are apathetic. worthless. with the survival instincts of moths. The spectacle of someone else suffering is their entertainment. The citizens of Zakuul watch the Alderan House Wars like some people watch the Kardashians. Which is why the mara didn't care if they died.

 

The LS BH let them live. Koth stuck around (I'm so disappointed over that). The DS Inq pushed the button herself. Koth left (I giggled). The Neutral Mara let Kaliyo push the button. Koth left (that was my first play through, I cheered). I haven't run the Sin or the Operative yet, I'll let them choose based on what feels organic to them.

[Nefla]

I don't think he's exactly insecure, what with all the wise-cracking.

 

I ALSO wish there was a chance to talk a bit more about Ziost, but I'm sure that's being saved for down the line. I, for one, really want to go there in upcoming chapters with Valky.

I wish we got to talk to the new companions more in general (like maybe influenced based conversation unlocks like in lv 1-50? Or personal conversations that become available after certain chapters?)

[Nefla]

I saved the first bunch on every character but my DS inq. I let the refugees on my ship on every one of my characters (including the Inq for 'reasons'). I sometimes sided with him for the Heralds. I sometimes sided with Senya depending on my char. So my marauder let's Kaliyo push a button and Koth flips out and leaves.

 

The mara's crime? Not scolding the psycho bald chic for being a psycho bald chic?

 

So my character didn't let a bunch of civilians die. And my character didn't kill the next batch of hapless civlians. Basically my char just didn't care enough about Zakuul to stop Kaliyo. Not sure my character cares enough about Kaliyo to keep other Alliance characters from shoving her over the cliff edge... but fairly sure the marauder isn't motivated enough to push her over the edge herself.

 

Now Koth as former military admitted he followed his orders until he defected. So was he part of the team that went to Coruscant or Dromund Kaas? Maybe he helped so the Gormak children all died? Heck maybe he was a desk jockey who just ordered the munitions for blowing up Republic and Empire worlds.

 

The problem with the Zakuul citizens to my marauder in particular is they are apathetic. worthless. with the survival instincts of moths. The spectacle of someone else suffering is their entertainment. The citizens of Zakuul watch the Alderan House Wars like some people watch the Kardashians. Which is why the mara didn't care if they died.

 

The LS BH let them live. Koth stuck around (I'm so disappointed over that). The DS Inq pushed the button herself. Koth left (I giggled). The Neutral Mara let Kaliyo push the button. Koth left (that was my first play through, I cheered). I haven't run the Sin or the Operative yet, I'll let them choose based on what feels organic to them.

 

Obviously you can play an evil character if you want, but you have to expect characters to react negatively to it. IMO the game would be very boring if every companion groveled at your feet like a whipped slave. I actually found it quite stupid and annoying that Lana seems to hero-worship you even if you're mean to her all the time, do things she hates, etc...at most she scolds you for a minute but then goes right back to the goo-goo eyes. I like a character with their own opinions, motivations, and so on.

 

All I'm saying is that if the roles were reversed, the players wouldn't take their own excuses for not listening to them and letting the characters the player told them to save die as valid but they expect Koth to do just that.

[Myracarrah]

Obviously you can play an evil character if you want, but you have to expect characters to react negatively to it. IMO the game would be very boring if every companion groveled at your feet like a whipped slave. I actually found it quite stupid and annoying that Lana seems to hero-worship you even if you're mean to her all the time, do things she hates, etc...at most she scolds you for a minute but then goes right back to the goo-goo eyes. I like a character with their own opinions, motivations, and so on.

 

All I'm saying is that if the roles were reversed, the players wouldn't take their own excuses for not listening to them and letting the characters the player told them to save die as valid but they expect Koth to do just that.

 

Heck he can dislike my character's choices all he wants. I cheered because he is gone. I listed the reasons I hate him previously. It was a fairly big list. I am however mad none of my characters got a chance to force choke him or shock him.

 

I see Lana as mostly indifferent to my characters. She's worried the Emperor is living in their heads... and that's about it. She simply wants my characters to live to figure head a resistance she organized. Anything more than that would require flirting with her, and even then I am not sure she would actually 'care'.

 

As for the player being mad if Companions disregarded your choices? It happens. MKX propaganda droid still wants to be a vigilante for the Republic even if your trooper says "Don't be an idiot". Gault still swindles people if your BH tells him to live his life on the straight and narrow. Ashara, you can tell her til you are blue in the face (even easier to do if you are playing a chiss) that you are an EVIL sith Lord, and she still insists that you should be nice. How about Mako and force marrying male BHs who mistakenly flirted with that particular ball of crazy? Has Kaliyo ever not cheated someone because you have told her time and time again that you disapprove?

[LonelyWookiee]

I think he's a good guy; it's just annoying the way he comes across with it.

[Tamyn]

Personally I didn't like Koth because he was trying too hard with all the witty lines. After a while it was wearing down and tiring as his character was overusing them, he tried too hard to sound witty and clever and I feel that he came across as so forced because of it.

Another reason to dislike him: Sent him out on a crew skill mission and his response was a sarcastic "Like I don't have better things to do."

 

This, plus he throws hissy fits when he doesn't get his way and he tries to make the Outlander feel guilty for not doing what he wants you to do. I don't know what Lana told him about the Outlander, but he acts like you're supposed to be some fairy tale hero who doesn't have a sliver of self-preservation or rational self-interest. He's an idealist who refuses to wake up to reality.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Tamyn