Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[JamieKirby]

from what i have seen with my character, its true.

 

I spent 1400 to send my 2 companions out (thats 2800 total) and when they got back, i got 1000 and 1200 back, so i lost 600 in money.

 

If this isn't changed to be more viable, like if you sepnd 1400, you should get 1500 back or something, any future characters will NOT be taking slicing.

[zaroleq]

the only thing they should of nerfed is the level required to run the missions. level your toon to fit the level. everything else should of stayed put. you should be able to gain the skill to 400 however it should of been required you be at the level to run that mission, nothing higher.

 

Precisely!

[Idaho-D]

Now you're like every other craft where you don't earn money going on missions.

 

I never lost money on other crafts. Craft smartly and you are wealthy and well equipped.

 

Slicing should return things if not credits, and by the way, if you lose money on lockbox missions they should just be pulled entirely from missions and replaced with usable items. Weapons, Armor, Schematics.

 

Sad though. One character is a level 170 Slicer which is now useless. Even before the nerf I would never take Slicing on another character. Crafting returns a geat deal more credits if you work on it, plus you get the best of whatever you are crafting.

[ECGxVirus]

I can see the frustration here. But I cannot complain as I do not have the crew skill. But I have lost thousands trying to reverse engineer items in an attempt to find the new schematic. And that covers all three skills. So for an entire community to complain about just one crew skill is beyond me.

 

Lets say a tier 2 synthweaving item that I am trying to upgrade at least to the correct blue will end up costing me somewhere near 3k to 4k just to find the blue. Then I will hopefully get the correct blue to start reverse engineering into the next quality.

 

To make so much money from just one crew skill is OP. Now that it is the equivalent of the rest of the crew skills is just fine by me.

[SuperSithSerum]

It's definitely less versatile than crafting and likely not nearly the money-maker crafting will be end game, but it is/was a cool way to give people not-so interested in crafting a way to contribute to building the economy.

 

^^This.

It may not feed in directly to things, but when there is no money to be pumped into the machine (I.E. buy someone's Advanced Meds that they spent a couple hours making gathering and all that, come to find out no one has money to buy these things, because around this time people will be overleveled for those Meds, making the cease of that one item because there is no real demand for it.)

 

Slicing, an influx of money to stimulate more production of items needed, gear and all that other good stuff.

But now, I.E. I'll have to run through twenty quests to afford one item that I really want

A production of credits is a good thing, it feeds the crafters that barely have any money because they are... crafting.

 

tl;dr

How can a restaurant make food if there is no money to bring in the food?

[ObiQuixote]

Now it's in line with other professions. Treasure hunting, I can spend 900cr and get 300cr out of the lock box it returns.

 

Gathering missions were meant as way to pay to level or a way to get something you need for crafting. How and why they became a way to print money I don't know, but it should be obvious why you can't have a "no downsides" way to print money in the game.

[JamieKirby]

Loses money? Well what's the problem, it's like the other crafts... oh wait, you still make money? In my book that makes it better than pretty much any craft in the game. People barely buy anything of AH to begin with. I don't blame them because money is a problem at lower levels.

 

But yeah, kinda figures why i sold so nicely before the patch and then took a dive after... slicing. What's the point of crafting/trying to sell on the AH when people can't even afford/willing to pay you at "suggested" or lower pricing?

 

Sorry, but i look every 4-5 levels for new stuff to buy and there is never anything on there.

 

I might have a orange weapon(s), a orange chest, helm, leggings and so on and i just can't find anything to upgrade the modules, so i suggest crafters should start crafting and stop QQ'ing about slicing, since if we can't do slicing profitably, we can't spend money on your crafted items, which means you just screwed over yourselves by all the QQ'ing about slicing.

 

Well done.

[JamieKirby]

Precisely!

 

That would have been preferrable to me andi am a slicer.

[hulduet]

the only thing they should of nerfed is the level required to run the missions. level your toon to fit the level. everything else should of stayed put. you should be able to gain the skill to 400 however it should of been required you be at the level to run that mission, nothing higher.

 

Terrible idea. WoW already did that a few years back. Surprises me that BW didn't do the same in swtor. Would destroy alts completely as you would need to actually level them to even skill them up.

 

How about stepping it up a notch and go the lotro way? By locking your profession by quests that requires killing of mobs equal to the crafting level. Oh wait, do a combination of both while you're at it.

 

There just will never be a mmo with a decent crafting in it, period. They're bad as you level and next to useless at highest level. What's the point of even having them?!

[knightnvy]

Now it's in line with other professions. Treasure hunting, I can spend 900cr and get 300cr out of the lock box it returns.

 

Gathering missions were meant as way to pay to level or a way to get something you need for crafting. How and why they became a way to print money I don't know, but it should be obvious why you can't have a "no downsides" way to print money in the game.

 

glad you understand the purpose of slicing....

 

Flat ignorant

 

It was never designed to be like a craft only money to spend on the things YOU make... agreeing with this is like wanting to make less money for your crafted items!

[navotjr]

The issue we have here is two different approaches to wealth.

 

1. The slicer has no skill for crafting. He does not craft an epic item and sell for huge profits at level 50. He makes little chunks of money throughout his or her life with no cost, 2000 credits here, 500 there. Upfront the slicer is rich, the crafters are poor.

 

2. The crafter learns the profession with high upfront cost and materials. When done they are the Calvin Klein of SWTOR and are making huge profit on end game weapons, armour etc.

 

In the end they balance each other out. The slicer gets steady cash with little loss to get his 2 million credits in 4 months....the crafter in the end with valuable end product has 2 million in 4 months.

 

It would have balance out in the end. What people forgot was the crafters have high end earning potential....the slicer never will...he or she just takes the little crumbs throughout his her life to become wealthy. Take that away and well.....you have the issues discussed.

 

We forgot that in the end the professions balance out. Up front slicer ahead, everyone catches up and reality probably has far more earning potential then the slicer. But we missed that and cut out the slicers legs today.

[Kakgak]

When the nerf was obvious, I set about creating a spreadsheet (in retrospect a database may have been better). I wanted to judge whether to dump Slicing or to carry on.

 

I started tracking Lvl 1 missions (fastest) to build up a little data and see if there was any profit at all. From there, I have done a few other levels too and tracked my progress.

 

Slicing still appears profitable, but not like it was (obviously). I don't think we need to freak out, but time will tell if the credits per hour is worth not having say, Scavenging or whatever.

 

Disclaimer: My number of samples is hardly exhaustive enough to say "Here's how it is", so your mileage may vary.

 

My suspicion is that one or more of the following is true:

• Either the ROI for all levels of mission will eventually even out with enough samples.
  
• Or that profitability goes down as you choose higher missions (my reasoning is that lower lvl is more micromanaging).
  
• Something else.
  

 

Enough talk, let's do numbers. My Reward column includes credits earned, as well as credits from selling blue rewards outright (there being a glut on the marked for Class 2 Shield Regenerators and whatnot).

 

Purples are not taken in to account (I just bank those for now).

Credits earned slicing during PvE questing are not recorded here (this is a significant amount, btw and not to be despised).

 

No really, enough talk!

 

                                     Slicing					
        Cost	        Reward	ROI	        Per Hour	Samples
Lvl 1	        5545	        7320	        32.01%	860.78	37
Lvl 2	        2335	        3256	        39.44%	1261.29	7
Lvl 3	        0	        0	        0.00%	0	
Lvl 4	        0	        0	        0.00%	0	
Lvl 5	        15335	19478	27.02%	488.51	11
Lvl 6	        24545	29819	21.49%	550.59	17
Totals	43785	55200	26.07%		

 

edit: updated table.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Kakgak

[LeperJack]

I can see the frustration here. But I cannot complain as I do not have the crew skill. But I have lost thousands trying to reverse engineer items in an attempt to find the new schematic. And that covers all three skills. So for an entire community to complain about just one crew skill is beyond me.

What are you reverse engineering? And why?

 

If it's level 50 gear, I can understand, because the money lost on reverse engineering will pay for itself pretty quickly, but if you're just playing pokemon to catch all the patterns, then what exactly were you expecting to happen?

 

My cybertech sage is sitting on 250k at level 14 because I don't see the need to have epic "might mod 1-6" I won't use it, no one will buy it for what it costs to make, and if I decide I want to make my self something epic for levelling (so it'll be replaced in a day, maybe a week) then why should I expect to make money at doing something so silly?

 

Lets say a tier 2 synthweaving item that I am trying to upgrade at least to the correct blue will end up costing me somewhere near 3k to 4k just to find the blue. Then I will hopefully get the correct blue to start reverse engineering into the next quality.

Again, Why would you do this? Much more, how can you not expect something this silly to lose you money?

 

To make so much money from just one crew skill is OP. Now that it is the equivalent of the rest of the crew skills is just fine by me.

I make far more from crafting than I ever did from slicing. I took it up primarily to get the speederbike schematics, and because i realized raw cash flow at this stage of the game is actually beneficial to creating a thriving economy in a young community.

 

There's nothing OP about slicing. What's "OP" is my common sense. You're welcome to come try to give me a lobotomy if you'd like.

[knightnvy]

what are you reverse engineering? And why?

 

If it's level 50 gear, i can understand, because the money lost on reverse engineering will pay for itself pretty quickly, but if you're just playing pokemon to catch all the patterns, then what exactly were you expecting to happen?

 

My cybertech sage is sitting on 250k at level 14 because i don't see the need to have epic "might mod 1-6" i won't use it, no one will buy it for what it costs to make, and if i decide i want to make my self something epic for levelling (so it'll be replaced in a day, maybe a week) then why should i expect to make money at doing something so silly?

 

Again, why would you do this? Much more, how can you not expect something this silly to lose you money?

 

I make far more from crafting than i ever did from slicing. I took it up primarily to get the speederbike schematics, and because i realized raw cash flow at this stage of the game is actually beneficial to creating a thriving economy in a young community.

 

There's nothing op about slicing. What's "op" is my common sense. You're welcome to come try to give me a lobotomy if you'd like.

 

+1 +1 +1 +1

[zaroleq]

Listen, I'm tried of seeing you guys post on how OP slicing is; that it should be on par with the other "gathering" skills.

 

A scavenger gathers money, an archaeologist gathers crystals and stuff, slicers...well they gather money. Slicing is a non crafting crew skill!!

 

Of course you're going to lose money when you reverse engineer something, the whole point is to get a better schematic which in turn will allow you to make better items which, follow this closely, NETS YOU MORE MONEY. Hey what a concept.

 

Slicing was meant for those people who don't enjoy crafting, the guys who would rather pay other people to make the items. It eliminated the grind from the game completely, and not just for slicers, for everyone. The game just lost one it it's top money generating skills because a bunch of noobs were complaining that they didn't have as much money as other noobs. I hope they're happy though, they just turned money making int TOR into the grind that it has been in every other game. So much for branching out. Nice job BW...nice job.

[knightnvy]

#1 problem...

 

Devs didnt take the time to see what was really happening and knee jerked a reaction that only needed a small step to the left.. IF anything at all.

 

I hope this is a learning experience and not a forming pattern

[pdxmarcos]

For the last week, a few of us have been tracking the results from credit box missions. All the information I reference in this post will be from the spreadsheet that we have been aggregating our data in, which can be found here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0ArCSGLnwZLADdGxYdlhEejBFclBjR3l1N29OaW1kYUE&gid=0

 

Pre-nerf, the best case scenario gave a profitability of about 7,200 credits per hour, with 5 companions running missions non-stop that results in 36,000 credits per hour. This assumes that you have max affection across all your companions, that they were only running the most profitable mission (The Automated Saboteur), and that there are no delays between the end of one mission and the beginning of the next mission. Each of these will negatively impact profitability and reduce the revenue gained.

 

Post-nerf, we began collecting data immediately in a separate sheet to find out the true impact of the nerf and it appears to be drastic. The best case scenario, still a mid-skill level mission which was supposed to be the genesis of these nerfs, results in an average profitability of 1,660 credits per hour, with 5 companions running missions non-stop results in 8,300 credits per hour. Again, the same stipulations are here regarding the restraints on the profitability, which means that it’s far more likely that the average person is gaining credits at about 1,000 credits per hour per companion. This is roughly the equivalent of credits I gain in 15 minutes of farming mobs while questing.

There are essentially two problems with this profession. The first problem is that the margins are so small that you have a higher chance at individual missions being unprofitable. While in the long-run this will not be an issue, it creates a disincentive to pick up this profession.

 

The second problem is far more significant in that the augments, which should be the cash cow for slicing, have no marketplace, and will likely not have a marketplace, as it requires crafted gear that has a augment slot.

 

There is no upside to slicing as a profession, unless you like spending your time running around Ilum farming credit boxes.

[Shayde]

This nerf is insane.

 

Especially for non-crafters. I am getting killed on training costs to the point where I can't afford to buy upgrades on the market.

 

And everything I try to sell on the market just goes unsold every two days, and I'm selling at the suggested retail price.

 

This nerf was waaaaaaaaaaaaay too extreme. Slicing missions are barely more than break-even now.

 

Crafters who characterize those against this nerf, I have to ask you one thing... how can we afford YOUR goods if we have no money? The economy hasn't existed long enough to survive without a lot of credits flowing.

[DarthGammon]

Bioware has essentially showed that they make major balance decisions based on QQ, as they did with slicing. So, the slicers will continue to complain because we know, without a doubt, that Bioware responds to such tactics.

 

And that is why Im going to quit this game. My time was wasted lvling slicing and I refuse to have more of it wasted by QQers. The nerf bat swings too easily it seems and I am not going to stick around for more of it unless BW reverts this terrible fail of a profession back to something that makes sense.

 

And for any BW employee that reads this, the reason you guys dont see very many subscription cancels yet is because everyone is playing on their free month. I suggest fixing this fast.

[Blakefay]

A month or two from now when the majority of the population is lvl 50 and the econ has sorted itself out, It will become plain to see that slicing has become the least profitable crew skill and will be adjusted to become in line with the others.

 

I make a lot more money selling mats from other collecting and mission runs then i do with slicing.

 

It would be nice to actually have/find/get rewarded gear with augs so they aren't useless. Half my bank is filled with them and I've never even gotten the chance to use one.

[knightnvy]

and that is why im going to quit this game. My time was wasted lvling slicing and i refuse to have more of it wasted by qqers. The nerf bat swings too easily it seems and i am not going to stick around for more of it unless bw reverts this terrible fail of a profession back to something that makes sense.

 

And for any bw employee that reads this, the reason you guys dont see very many subscription cancels yet is because everyone is playing on their free month. I suggest fixing this fast.

 

+1 +1 +1 +1

[strakt]

LOL @ all the qq'ers in this thread. Slicing is still good; seeing as I made around a 100k profit yest using 4 companions and selling the missions/augments I received.. Edited December 28, 2011 by strakt

[GhostEclipse]

LOL @ all the qq'ers in this thread. Slicing is still good; seeing as I made around a 100k profit yest using 4 companions and selling the missions/augments I received..

 

I call BS on that. Pre-nerf, yes it was possible to do it, but from slicing alone now. There is no way. Now if you were leveling/pvping. Then yes, you might have done it. But via slicing missions alone, especially since you said you did augments too, it is not possible.

[rlhaas]

LOL @ all the qq'ers in this thread. Slicing is still good; seeing as I made around a 100k profit yest using 4 companions and selling the missions/augments I received..

 

Don't feed this guy for sanity's sake because he's/she's obviously lying.

[knightnvy]

Don't feed this guy for sanity's sake because he's/she's obviously lying.

 

So true