Slicing post-nerf, please look at the numbers BW

[Golarz]

Worst think is, that if some grupe of people whine hard enough on this forum, BioWare will finaly go their way.

 

Crafter-wannabes whined about sliceing and look where it got us. Now they will be suprised why still nobody is buying stuff they crafted.

Good crafttes knew the value of sliceing and end game crafted gear. Everybody lost here.

 

Rich missions are like moderate missions befor the nerf. So every other type of mission is a loosing one and rich may be profitable when it crits. Best possible sliceing mission cost over 3k credits and take 2h 40 min to compleat. It gives ONE agument and ONE green rank 6 lokbox wich now gives about 2000 credits on average. And you need mission discovery for this one. Tell me what's the point of running those ?

 

 

Here's something funny

http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20111228-d6a6c.png

Edited December 28, 2011 by Golarz

[xDoomsDayx]

So have I gotten spoiled? here we are, almost 100 pages in and not 1 single comment from a dev that I can see. The last few mmos that I have played, the devs have been a huge part of the community. Even announcing upcoming changes both good and bad and have been willing to talk about them with their player base. I really was seeing this type of interaction becoming normal but so far, all I have seen from bioware is, here are some changes, oh and a nerf, servers are back up, have fun playing. Oh I threw that last part in about having fun, I am not sure they would actually say that now, It might be taken as they cared.

 

I am really shocked at the attitude I am seeing here from bioware of not talking with their customers. In my first post, I think I mentioned about the nerf to the creature handler that totally destroyed the class in swg. Now I know this isn't swg but this is relevant in a few ways. When smedley (and god I feel dirty even saying that name) threw down the nerf with an iron fist, everyone, even the non creature handlers were like woah! Back it up, that was way uncalled for. The response we got was and I am not joking, We will revisit the creature handlers in 1 YEAR and see if any changes need to be made. There was no talking to smedley about this, his mind was made up and by god, no matter how badly it will hurt the game, its his law or nothing. Well, we see how well that turned out.

 

This is to bioware. Talk to your player base. LISTEN to your player base. Ignore and alienate your player base and you will fall, I dont care how much money you got to throw at the game, you will fall. Just look at sony. Once they were near gods in the MMO world, now they are little pieces of corn in the dungheap of all the other mmo worlds. COMMUNICATE with your player base. Discuss this and other issues going on. As Will wheaton often says, Dont be a dick. So far, thats what I am feeling bioware is being.

Edited December 28, 2011 by xDoomsDayx

[Thormart]

I can see why they did it. they want slicing to be a loot skill primarily. missions are for leveling them in case you fall behind and need to train it up.

[Swixer]

I can see why they did it. they want slicing to be a loot skill primarily. missions are for leveling them in case you fall behind and need to train it up.

 

Doesn't change the fact that they completely screwed the pooch and messed up.

 

And it doesn't change the fact that they've yet to respond to any of the very valid points made in this topic.

[Gaizka]

I have benn doing slicing missions last day, about 30 missions and I finally I got the same money, didnt lose much money but I didnt earned anything, before for the same missions I would earned about 30k credits, maybe 30k is too much and it should be 15k, or 10k..., but 0 or even loose..., I think things should changed about 5%, and if it vontinues failing, then other 5%, but change it 300%....

 

Oh my god if they are going to do this changes like that in all things in game...

[Greyfeld]

I haven't done extensive testing, but I have a few tests from over the last few hours:

 

Tier rank: Mission Name - Cost - Reward

3: Arranged Incident - 870 - 2912/TH Mission

4: Pointing Fingers - 1250 - 1032

4: Pointing Fingers - 1250 - 1304

3: Arranged Incidents - 870 - 1325

4: Pointing Fingers - 1250 - 1533

4: Be Careful What You Read - 1175 - 1811

4: Pointing Fingers - 1250 - 1184

5: His Home is His Castle - 1075 - 1558

5: His Home is His Castle - 1075 - 2508/TH Mission

5: Sabotage and Repair - 990 - 1433/CT schematic

5: Off the Grid - 1135 - 1818

5: His Home is His Castle - 1075 - 1268

5: Sabotage and Repair - 990 - Fail

5: Off the Grid - 1135 - 1163

5: His Home is His Castle - 1075 - 1269

5: Sabotage and Repair - 990 - 1697

 

In the end, I netted a total of 6360 credits, two Treasure Hunter missions, and a Cybertech schematic.

 

As much as this has obviously hit Slicing hard, it doesn't seem to be a net loss. And hopefully mission/schematic drops will sell for higher profit as the economy balances out.

[Thormart]

Doesn't change the fact that they completely screwed the pooch and messed up.

 

And it doesn't change the fact that they've yet to respond to any of the very valid points made in this topic.

 

 

Why?if it works as intended how did they screw up? people still make money off of it only not with the missions. they have to actually go out and look for the cash using the skill instead of having it as a sort of press button for cash skill.

[KTheAlchemist]

Why?if it works as intended how did they screw up? people still make money off of it only not with the missions. they have to actually go out and look for the cash using the skill instead of having it as a sort of press button for cash skill.

 

Except people are reporting a massive reduction in respawn rates, meaning Slicers lose either way. And I mean massive as in "you can spend an entire play session in PvE and not find a single node".

[Tholena]

And hopefully mission/schematic drops will sell for higher profit as the economy balances out.

 

It would also really help if the default prices for augments on the galactic network was at least as high as the mission cost that produced that augment Lots of slicers are just taking the default without realizing its less than half of the mission cost. Yes, their fault, but you can't expect people to get out a calculator for a game.

[Swixer]

Why?if it works as intended how did they screw up? people still make money off of it only not with the missions. they have to actually go out and look for the cash using the skill instead of having it as a sort of press button for cash skill.

 

Most non-crafting crew skills are "press button for cash" skills. The only reason people only seem to notice it with slicing is because slicing gives you credits directly as opposed to through auctioning.

 

If you're going to nerf slicing into oblivion, you may as well nerf the rest of them whilst you're at it.

[Pansophist]

So have I gotten spoiled? here we are, almost 100 pages in and not 1 single comment from a dev that I can see. The last few mmos that I have played, the devs have been a huge part of the community. Even announcing upcoming changes both good and bad and have been willing to talk about them with their player base. I really was seeing this type of interaction becoming normal but so far, all I have seen from bioware is, here are some changes, oh and a nerf, servers are back up, have fun playing. Oh I threw that last part in about having fun, I am not sure they would actually say that now, It might be taken as they cared.

 

I am really shocked at the attitude I am seeing here from bioware of not talking with their customers. In my first post, I think I mentioned about the nerf to the creature handler that totally destroyed the class in swg. Now I know this isn't swg but this is relevant in a few ways. When smedley (and god I feel dirty even saying that name) threw down the nerf with an iron fist, everyone, even the non creature handlers were like woah! Back it up, that was way uncalled for. The response we got was and I am not joking, We will revisit the creature handlers in 1 YEAR and see if any changes need to be made. There was no talking to smedley about this, his mind was made up and by god, no matter how badly it will hurt the game, its his law or nothing. Well, we see how well that turned out.

 

This is to bioware. Talk to your player base. LISTEN to your player base. Ignore and alienate your player base and you will fall, I dont care how much money you got to throw at the game, you will fall. Just look at sony. Once they were near gods in the MMO world, now they are little pieces of corn in the dungheap of all the other mmo worlds. COMMUNICATE with your player base. Discuss this and other issues going on. As Will wheaton often says, Dont be a dick. So far, thats what I am feeling bioware is being.

 

 

I really wish they would read things like this

[Greyfeld]

It would also really help if the default prices for augments on the galactic network was at least as high as the mission cost that produced that augment Lots of slicers are just taking the default without realizing its less than half of the mission cost. Yes, their fault, but you can't expect people to get out a calculator for a game.

 

To be fair, if there was more gear with augment slots, prices of augments would increase.

[Thormart]

Most non-crafting crew skills are "press button for cash" skills. The only reason people only seem to notice it with slicing is because slicing gives you credits directly as opposed to through auctioning.

 

If you're going to nerf slicing into oblivion, you may as well nerf the rest of them whilst you're at it.

 

Thats not true. other missions have to make an actual effort to turn missions rewards into cash. IE crafting and then selling the stuff.

[Modernpreacher]

People like to compare slicing to other skills.

 

Since that's the case, as slicing is post nerf, when you send your guy out on a mission in another other craft, imagine if you only ever failed missions.

 

That's basically what's happening with slicing now.

 

You net a loss with no material to show for it. There's no metal, cloth, etc.

 

 

People will say, but other crafts lose money when you do the missions. And yes they do, but they get you resources. The resources gained via slicing was credits in raw form. Now you lose that very same resource with nothing to show for it except a loss of time.

 

When I send a companion on a mission, get a green box and still lose 157 credits for 30 minutes of RL time, with nothing to vendor/market or otherwise use for crafting, then the gathering skill is broken.

[Chasted]

When I send a companion on a mission, get a green box and still lose 157 credits for 30 minutes of RL time, with nothing to vendor/market or otherwise use for crafting, then the gathering skill is broken.

 

But you have a slight chance of gaining 4-6 thousand credits for a bonus mission! That's profitable

[xDoomsDayx]

I really wish they would read things like this

 

They probably will. But you know what they will take from it? This guy called us a dick. Everything else will probably be ignored

[SirFlashington]

Here's a completely editable spreadsheet filled with stats from this thread (and other sheets). And, most importantly, a visual graph for people to look at and have an "aha!" moment. The more information we have on here, the more accurate these graphs will be. So please don't hesitate to add your 2c if you can.

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ag6DSToE8ms5dEY1V05ERUp4OGFPZ1Q4VE1CVk9HaWc

 

The bottom line here is that Slicing is still profitable, but not AS profitable.

 

From the info I have, the best Slicing missions to camp on are Class2 Lockbox missions, which reap an average of 43.9 Credits per minute. Make sure you check out the other tabs for graphs! Thanks for reading

[Smackybear]

I like the idea of making it a grab bag of all the other gathering skills where you get random mats.

 

If they don't want to give us free cash then perhaps they could add a perk like reducing the deposit cost of AH items the higher your slicing skill is. That would also compliment the random mats component.

[KTheAlchemist]

But you have a slight chance of gaining 4-6 thousand credits for a bonus mission! That's profitable

 

Until you take the long view and factor in the losses over a long series of tests, as people have already done. Over time, the skill is basically break-even, without the materials that other skills get to show for it.

[Swixer]

Thats not true. other missions have to make an actual effort to turn missions rewards into cash. IE crafting and then selling the stuff.

 

Nope.

 

Crafting doesn't come into it. IT doesn't come into it at all. Ignore crafting for a bit and focus primarily on gathering skills.

 

Now don't bother telling me the materials you get from gathering missions are worthless if you don't craft them into a generic weapon or object of some sort because that's a lie. You know full well that you can sell those mats. You don't need to craft them into anything at all.

 

Keeping that in mind, that essentially makes every gathering skill a potential "press button, receive credits" skill, which makes your flimsy point pretty invalid. Though the fact that you have no idea about slicing at all already did a lot to make it invalid in the first place.

[illgot]

Now you're like every other craft where you don't earn money going on missions.

 

haha, no.

 

I have one character that does nothing but gathering. I sell the mats regularly and make more money than my slicer pre-nerf.

 

And it doesn't cost me anything to gather nodes.

 

My crafters lose a small amount only when I'm power crafting useless things like belts and gloves, but I make up for it by REing everything I make and selling the higher level creations.

 

My bio crafter never loses money. Everything I make I sell for more than the mats cost on the broker and she gets to power craft and make money while doing so.

[tmaxim]

Assuming that Bioware is reading this (/wave), I'd just like to add my voice to those saying that the slicing nerf was too much and ask that BW reexamine it.

 

I hate crafting – have in every single MMO I've played – and with slicing SWTOR was the first game that let me have a nice income stream without having to spend hours doing something I don't enjoy.

 

You can tell me that I should have to 'work harder' for my credits, but I work anywhere between 12–14 hours a day in a RL job and the last thing I want to do is come home and 'work' in a game. If you enjoy crafting and 'money management' in-game, good on you. Have at it. Don't force me to play the way you do.

 

I plan on hoarding my credits now for my speeder training and other skills – gear will come from PVP and commendations. I spent about 13K outfitting my companion on the GTN this morning before I learned of the nerf. I won't be doing that again soon.

 

Amen

 

At this point I am remembering why I hate MMOs to begin with.

 

nerfs and grinds are not fun

[Zies]

People used to making lots of money on the GTN from item drops and crafted gear?

 

Prepare to take a hit now that slicers can't spend spend spend.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Zies

[Quesadilla]

Strictly as a mission skill Slicing will lose you money, but I think a lot of people here are forgetting that it isn't solely a mission skill.. Nodes exist on planets and they are rather bountiful. Factor those in and you definitely make more money than you lose.

[Boyos]

I'm gonna say this only once, sliceing is still very profitable, stop being dumb thinking you can only use slicing as a crew skill mission, slice boxes and male 100% profit. Get over the missions yielding 120-150% returns, they should have been nerfed before the beta was over.