Changes Coming to Packs with 4.1

[DayneDrak]

The more worrisome aspect is that he confirmed that the CM dev team has shrunk. They will release fewer new items so that have to give us old junk to fill out packs.

 

Not entirely true. The other way to look at it is that its an effort to retain newer players who might want some of the cool older stuff, but when they see the credit cost on the GTN, have a bit of sticker shock. If new players see cool stuff they want but feel like they can never get, they're less likely to stick around.

 

I do think this is the worse way to go about doing it. Peroidically making older packs available is a better way.

[tdamiens]

So how can the pointed questions about Cartel Certificates still get no response?

 

Indeed, Eric/Bioware obstinately refuses to answer these questions, or even acknowldge their existence. This is not only irritating; at this point, it is insulting.

 

As I understand it, BW will replace some of the new random quality items with old random quality items, window-dress this change as an improvement, and blatantly ignore the single one most desired change: the reintroduction of Certificates.

 

This clarify things, indeed, and I will not buy these new packs.

[Xo-Lara]

Are Grand Chance Cubes replacing all Bronze items in packs?

Yes, any time you would have gotten a Bronze item in the past, you will now get a Grand Chance Cube in its place.

 

That sounds like we'll be getting mostly chance cubes now considering the supply of bronze items flooding the gtn.

 

How does this change affect the drop rate on new pack items?

The Bronze category will be less common than it was in the past. This means that there is a higher drop rate for Silver and Gold items (which are new to the pack).

 

Isn't this the same reasoning that was used in connection the Force Alliance pack? That didn't go over well. It did not feel like a good value just the same. I imagine it will be worse with silver items that people will mentally equate with bronze even if it no longer bears that label.

 

Are Collection unlock prices going to be adjusted?

There are no plans to adjust Collection unlock prices at this time.

 

That is unfortunate. Cost will remain higher because of the removal of cheaper unlocks but I find it unlikely that satisfaction will rise.

 

 

Well, time to do like I did with the first two Alliance packs. Not only did I not spend cartel coins on buying the packs, but I also did not buy the packs from the GTN to help discourage resellers from buying them. I hope whoever makes these decisions does not try to force the implementation of these ideas.

 

We just narrowly got back to the point where people were buying the packs in large enough numbers again. A small recovery does not mean it is safe to return to the same tactics that started the dissatisfaction. If anything it will sting worse now that people have been stung before, and they are being stung again as if they did not explain their feelings on the matter clearly enough last time.

 

BTW, the folks I have seen on the thread commenting "I don't like this new plan but i may buy a crate anyways just to see" are defeating the purpose IMO.

 

If you don't like it, then DON'T buy any at all. That's the message that will get through the clearest.

 

While I agree. Technically someone has to test the waters to see if our suspicion is well founded. There is a remote possibility of getting a good deal out of this, like the chance of getting Satele's armor out of these packs. However, once someone takes a hit for the team and people can see what the real value is, they will need to speak with their wallets if they are still unsatisfied.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Xo-Lara

[DayneDrak]

Let me start by saying that I don't like the changes. I've never been a big buyer of packs, I tend to buy the items I want off the GTN, and then use my Cartel Coins for unlocks instead. I recognize these changes for the increased hope of revenue that they are, and don't approve of being manipulated that way.

 

I think they're rolling the dice on this. Once new people figure out they have a shot at all the stuff they missed in the last couple of years, they might be more inclined to buy the packs. And if there's a steady supply of older stuff coming into the economy, then that might act as a deflationary measure too.

 

Throughout this thread, I've seen alot of anger from the old folks who are old hands at buying Cartel packs. Understand that you are likely the minority. Bioware is trying to see if they can grow their market by tapping into new comers. Because I guarantee you that the new person who sees Satele's armor or Revan's for 20+ mil credits is going to think HOLY CRAP!

 

Ultimately, we'll see whether or not the gamble pays off. If not, they'll likely correct and go back to catering to the loyal pack buying customer base. If it continues in this vein, then it likely means the strategy paid off

[Andryah]

What are the drop rates for Bronze, Silver, and Gold items inside of the Grand Chance Cube?

Although we can’t go into details on specific drop rates, Silver and Gold items will be much more common in the Grand Chance Cube than they were in previous Bronze and Grand Packs.

 

Why not?

 

What exactly are you hiding here? It's not like drop rates are IP or trade secrets in the industry.

 

If you want to rebuild trust with the community, you have to do more then communicate more.... you have to actually communicate in a more transparent and less ambiguous manner as well.

 

I get that some data about how the game works needs to be kept secret... but for the life of me I cannot figure out why drop rates for items in cartel packs is one of them.

 

Is it because if players saw the actual drop rates from the pack loot tables... it would turn them off of buying? That is the logical conclusion when you keep data like this secret.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Andryah

[Osgorion]

Hey folks,

 

We have definitely seen a few consistent topics popping up in this thread and we want to make sure we get answers to those questions. Here they are:

 

In response to the original post and the above one.. What it basically comes down to;

 

So this way you no longer have to create filler items for your new packs as you can have the old items serve as filler for your new releases? Saves you some work I supose.

 

It serves to note also that even silver and gold "Quality" labeled items had it's share of clutter. I have to wonder, are the new silver and gold items going to live up to their labeled degree of quality? Or may they as well be the same old with just the silver/gold stamp slapped on it?

Why so negative you could ask? If I look back on the long history of your CM and it's gamble-ware I have a very hard time to find something positive to note out. I think I might be making a severe understatement if I said I'm not alone in this.

 

Your community, especially the ones that pay you money deserve better in return than more nickel&dime tricks.

 

You claim that these changes are for your community. Yet gambling rules; The house always wins, no matter how you decide to phrase it, no matter how nice you try to wrap it. One would be Naive to believe otherwise.

 

Do you respect your playerbase, those that pay?

Because...; (Long rant, BE WARNED! )

 

 

Before 4.0 we used to have Cartel Reputation Vendors. They're still there mostly. However the Cartel Certificates we used to get trough other packs are now only obtainable trough the Contraband Slot machine at a rate that makes your mind boggle. (And honestly, no one subs this game to have a clickfest on a virtual slot machine.) After 4.0 The Cartel Reputation Vendor system was discontinued. There would be no new vendors, No alternative way to get the old reputations and only aforementioned method to gain certificates which may as well not count at all.

 

On a pleasant note, those items that used to be exclusively Cartel Reputation vendor items now got the ability to be unlocked account wide, for Cartel Coins ofcourse.

This prompted me to finally start spending all the Cartel Certificates I had saved and collect the various items of the reputations which I and many others like me had carefully worked up over the years.

However, none of the items I now bought with my certificates would get it's character-unlock in my collections, even after the vendor re-imbursetimer expired. Thus making it impossible for my collections unlocks to be completed, let alone purchase accountwide unlocks for these.

 

Thinking this was a bug, I reported it. To my dismay however I was later told that this was intentional.

A few weeks ago I saw those Cartel Vendor Exclusive items appear on the GTN. Unlockable versions with a cartel market logo instead of the cartel vendor logo and no reputation requirement... Basically; if you wanted to unlock those items accountwide you'd have to buy gamble packs all over again.

So much for saving all those certificates and working up those reputations.

 

After the 4.0 Patch;

- First you took away the means to get the currency for Cartel Vendors items (This was in your notes beforehand)

- You added the ability for accountwide unlock on those Cartel Vendor Exclusives that were already unlocked before 4.0 (That seemed to be a nice suprise as we were not told about this change anywhere)

- You take away our ability to unlock our Cartel Vendor Exclusives in Collections. (There has never been a warning or info regarding that being changed what-so-ever)

- You re-sell the Cartel Vendor Exclusives in your BSG packs, effectively making them exclusive no longer. (Personally I wouldn't have minded about that at all if we at least had gotten the option to unlock it in collections, Which your RESALE versions DO.)

 

You might as well have spit in the face of everyone who went trough great lengths grinding those Cartel Reputations from your Gamblepacks.

 

TL;DR. Those that spend the extra cash for their Cartel Reputations in the past got the short end of the stick handed to them after patch 4.0.

 

 

The issue I bring up between my spoiler tags is just one of more issues people have been experiencing with your handling of the CM and doesn't exactly do alot of good to broker any kind of trust with your own playerbase.

 

We still even have to deal with a dye system that makes the oldest itteration of MSPaint look like Hypertechnology... all for the sake of more nickel and diming.

 

A proper GOOD way to rebalance outrageous prices/rarity on the GTN is by giving people a CHOICE (Craziest idea, I know right?....). Prices are influenced by Supply and Demand... always has, always will. Work in a system that allows people to make their own choice/take out of older *Rare* items, be it for sale or personal use, should rebalance exactly these 2 factors.

Whenever an item goes stir crazy in price; people will trade in thier tokens or special currency for that item for exactly that reason. Ultimately aiding in making 'Stir Crazy' prices become a thing of the past.

Effectively there will also be a much better supply in those items that have a high demand while those that are less succesful slowly fade out. (Bigtime re-sellers won't be happy, I supose).

So a special currency (New type of cartel certificates with no reputation attached) Which could be traded in for *choice* old items.

After all... "Choice matters"..., right Bioware?

 

There are alot of things that deserve applause of late, your expansion being one of them. I am grateful for these things. Your continued history with the CM and it's many debacles however aren't any of them...

I am certain of this: "Your players, Your Fans, deserve Better!"

I recall a time where you lived up to that unwritten promise..

 

To everyone going trough the effort of reading my post;

I apoligise for the long read.. and for my disgruntled demeanor. Even though my 'disgruntlednessis' has been in the making for some years. I *LOVE* The wealth of the Star Wars Universe.

I like to believe that ,while money is indeed needed, it should still be a means to an end, and not the end.

A trend I've seen evolve in a company I used to love as much as I love the Star Wars Universe.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Osgorion
Typ-o

[Ryenke]

Why not?

 

What exactly are you hiding here? It's not like drop rates are IP or trade secrets in the industry. If you want to rebuild trust with the community, you have to do more then communicate more.... you have to actually communicate in a more transparent and less ambiguous manner as well.

 

I get that some data about how the game works needs to be kept secret... but for the life of me I cannot figure out why drop rates for items in cartel packs is one of them.

 

Is it because if players saw the actual drop rates from the pack loot tables... it would turn them off of buying? That is the logical conclusion when you keep data like this secret.

 

Yup - clever misleading: "We CAN'T go into specifics" isn't the truth. Bioware CAN, Bioware CHOOSES not to. Why do they choose not to? Because the reason (horrible loot drop table) isn't in the customers best interest.

[TUXs]

Why not?

Because Metrics.

[Xo-Lara]

I think they're rolling the dice on this. Once new people figure out they have a shot at all the stuff they missed in the last couple of years, they might be more inclined to buy the packs. And if there's a steady supply of older stuff coming into the economy, then that might act as a deflationary measure too.

 

Throughout this thread, I've seen alot of anger from the old folks who are old hands at buying Cartel packs. Understand that you are likely the minority. Bioware is trying to see if they can grow their market by tapping into new comers. Because I guarantee you that the new person who sees Satele's armor or Revan's for 20+ mil credits is going to think HOLY CRAP!

 

This is very valid point, and I've seen another company owned by EA take a "we're only concerned about the new players we can attract" stance. We'll just have to see. However, what will they do when the new players have all of the commonly dropping armors and they want either rarer armors or new ones too?

 

The chance cube should be added in as a fifth but random drop not replacing normal drops.

[DarthSpuds]

So if the reasoning behind Chance Cubes is that they reduce the "Dev time" for "filler items", why not just do away with the need for filler item altogether.

 

Just put each item up on the CM with a set CC cost.

 

Let players buy what they want, rather than a chance to get nothing at all they want.

 

I had no problem at all dropping whatever CC it cost me to get the Armoured Woodland Varactyl when it was full price - because I wanted, and so I bought it.

 

If it was in a Pack of some kind I would not have spent even 1CC to buy a pack.

 

Would anyone here go the Mall / Supermarket and spend their £/$ on a "Mystery Grocery Pack" hoping to get something you wanted, but knowing the chances are you'll get rubbish you'll never use?

 

So why do it with Cartel Packs?

 

IMO it is dumb behaviour, and even worse it reinforces appallingly bad game development behaviour.

 

The reason Bioware feel it is OK to do this is becomes tons of players have spend who knows how much £/$ on previous Packs.

 

To all players not happy with how this is looking, there is ONLY one way to force a change: Do not buy even a single pack, not one. The moment you do Bioware know, for a fact, they have you hooked again - and three months down the line we'll see more threads like this when they do it again.

 

All The Best

[DayneDrak]

This is very valid point, and I've seen another company owned by EA take a "we're only concerned about the new players we can attract" stance. We'll just have to see. However, what will they do when the new players have all of the commonly dropping armors and they want either rarer armors or new ones too?

 

The chance cube should be added in as a fifth but random drop not replacing normal drops.

 

They sell the extras for credits *shrug*

 

They're basically going for the casino slot machine mentality (real ones, not the in game item). They want to make it pay out often enough to keep people hopeful, but not so often that they can't slowly drain folks for revenue.

[Icestar]

This will actually make it harder to get the new decorations since we will "roll" against the old pack aswell.

 

Decorations is the reason I get packs, I do not care much for new or old armors and weapons. I do not want any old items at all, this is a bad move.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Icestar

[DayneDrak]

I'd also like to add my voice to those wanting the Cartel Certs back.

 

I was gone from the game during the period in which those were dropping. When I came back, I bought a few packs, saw what a crappy deal it was, and stopped. If you put the Cartel Certs back, you'd actually get some cash out of me for packs, because at least then I'd get something that I value out of the packs, regardless of the RNG, at least until I maxed rep

[K_osss]

 

Are there or more less new items in the new pack, with the removal of Bronze items?

There are more Silver and Gold items than there were in previous packs, but less items overall with the removal of Bronze.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

I don't support less items developed per pack even if "they're more gold/silver". That just means less development time creating new gear and more of a chance for me to get older gear. Overall that is less value to me as a paying customer. No thanks.

[AlrikFassbauer]

This is very valid point, and I've seen another company owned by EA take a "we're only concerned about the new players we can attract" stance.

 

EA bought Zynga in the past. I guess that we begin to see the fruit of that now.

[Trobon]

HAHAHA! Oh man, I am so done. This is just too freaking funny. So let's recap:

 

1. You bring a great new way of getting items to people and say that it will be permanent.

2. Two months later you take that new one away.

3. You add in a worse system than we ever had before, killing both what people bought new packs for AND what people bought BSG packs for in one move.

 

I am quite seriously done buying cartel coins and packs from you people. This isn't one of those, "Oh I'm going to boycott, but really will buy things anyway" kind of deal. No, I am quite through dealing with a company that can't even wait half a year to see how the metrics fall before making knee-jerk reactions like this complete bull.

 

Honestly, the fact that I or anyone else ever trusted you to begin with is laughable. To think that I honestly thought you had a clue what you were doing or had any concern for players. Well you sure showed me.

 

So now you have taken someone who spent a good few hundred dollars on your cash shop to someone who could not care less if you release anything. Quite frankly you all are a disgrace to the name Bioware, a company that I have rooted for and cared about since Baldur's Gate. To think that you have any relation to a company that could be forward thinking and take a long view is pathetic.

 

And no, this isn't just about a cash shop. The cash shop is a symptom of a larger issue. Your development is so wildly knee-jerk it makes me thing that you just throw a dart at a board once a month to determine how things should develop for that month until you get the dart out again the next. You don't seem to have a clue how to look beyond your weekly profits and can't seem to even ask yourselves if something might actually work later down the road.

 

How many hours did you waste making those BSG packs to have them go away in two months? How many hours did you waste on this instead of bugs (Even Cartel market bugs like men/women underwear not being unlockable)? Its plain at this point you all are just developing code to throw away so why even bother putting it in the game in the first place when you can just toss it in the trash can next to your desk?

[Blacklynx]

I haven't read all the posts in here but i'll give my opinion,

 

Hey folks,

 

When you open the new Anarchist Pack in 4.1 you will receive the following:

• 2 items- either a new item from the pack (Mounts, Decorations, etc) or a Grand Chance Cube (more on this in a second)
  
• 1 rank 5 or 6 Companion Gift
  
• 1 Scrap
  

 

Instead of a Grand Chance Cube, how about an item the can be used to unlock anything in the colletions, for example 2-3 of the item would unlock a bronze item (mount, weapon or armor set), 6-7 for silver and around 10 for gold. One tradeoff could be that you can't unlock stuff from the current pack. This, i believe, is actually useful instead of rng inside an rng filled with trash.

[Xo-Lara]

They sell the extras for credits *shrug*

 

They're basically going for the casino slot machine mentality (real ones, not the in game item). They want to make it pay out often enough to keep people hopeful, but not so often that they can't slowly drain folks for revenue.

 

Who do they sell to once everyone has the common stuff? It's like trying to sell common low end mounts. There's just too many of them and it certainly won't offset the cost of the pack after a while.

[DayneDrak]

Who do they sell to once everyone has the common stuff? It's like trying to sell common low end mounts. There's just too many of them and it certainly won't offset the cost of the pack after a while.

 

Oh sure, there's no perfect solution. Like I said, slot machine mentality. By buying packs, youre gambling, and for the vast majority of gamblers, its a losing prospect. That's something you have to make your peace with before you start, or else just don't give them money.

[Manathayria]

Hey folks,

 

As you may know, our Cartel Market team has been making constant adjustments to how packs work, since our rework in Fallen Empire. We have heard in the past few months a lot of feedback from players that they really like the functionality of the “Grand Packs.” Think of anything from the Bronze, Silver, Gold Packs to the old Grand packs we released last year. Because of this, we are making some changes to the new pack which will release with 4.1.

 

Currently when you open a Cartel Market pack, this is what you receive:

• 2 items from the pack (Mounts, Decorations, etc)
  
• 1 rank 5 or 6 Companion Gift
  
• 1 Scrap
  

When you open the new Anarchist Pack in 4.1 you will receive the following:

• 2 items- either a new item from the pack (Mounts, Decorations, etc) or a Grand Chance Cube (more on this in a second)
   
  
• 1 rank 5 or 6 Companion Gift
  
• 1 Scrap
  

Now you are asking, what is the Grand Chance Cube? Think of it as the ultimate Grand Pack. Inside a Grand Chance Cube you have a chance to receive any available Cartel Market Pack item, including from the current Pack. Also, the Grand Chance Cube acts as a Grand Pack in that if you open an Armor Lootbox, it will contain the entire armor set, not just a few pieces.

 

This change allows us to place more emphasis on the Silver and Gold items in each pack, as we are no longer building new Bronze items. Now, in place of Bronze items you will receive a Grand Chance Cube. This Cube can contain the rarest of Cartel Market selections, giving you a second chance at highly-desired items.

 

Due to the ongoing changes in the Cartel Market, all of this is subject to change. It is likely that more changes will follow in the future.

 

Let me know if you have any questions on how these new packs work and I will work to clear up any confusion.

 

-eric

You had me right up until I saw how the Chance Cubes work, I don't like those. I feel the chance to get a second gamble item inside a gamble box is a waste - especially when it's taking up a slot that may otherwise have given me something from a new pack rather than old items. I liked the idea of being able to buy specific grand packs on the CM and I miss being able to direct buy the ships for GSF.

 

To address some of the other things you mentioned as far as changes the fact that there are no more 'bronze' armors as it's all silver/gold now mildly annoys me. You really needed to have a very impressive set for me to want to unlock a gold or silver but I pretty regularly unlocked the bronze even if I didn't like the armor look that much. Those often had the 'filler' parts for me such as gloves/boots etc that looked nice with other sets. Those were also the sets I never would have unlocked had they been a higher tier (gold or silver) because the cost for the set seemed too much.

 

At this stage a lot of the looks I've been seeing are recycled from earlier in the game, or reskins of more CM items as well which makes me less inclined to buy them anyway.

 

What I would love to see added instead

 

[*] Keep a few bronze sets, they're often worth unlocking even if they're not 'favorite' sets.

 

Cheaper cost and they often were something more for me to pick up and unlock for the extras. It took less thought to unlock something costing 60cc than something costing 400cc which means I more regularly spent my CC on those items than the gold or silver items.

 

[*]Add the cartel certificates back.

 

As none of the items from the CM vendors for rep unlock to collections anymore either give us the means to get certificates, or remove the certificate requirement as they already require that we have rep from a previous hypercrate drop. We can't get the hypercrate rep anymore nor can we easily get certs so adding them back into new packs or (preferably) removing the certificate requirement from those vendors would be ideal.

 

[*]Grand Packs.

 

While I disagree very strongly with adding these chance cubes inside the packs I would like to see a return to the grand packs that had briefly been available aside from the hypercrates. Those grand packs at least gave players something in addition to the current hypercrate if they were missing set/items from previous packs. I'd like to see those sets and chances added back in on a more regular basis. However, I do not want to see 'grand packs' taking up space in current hypercrates and taking away chances at new items.

 

If the cubes were in addition to and not taking the place of either of the new items in the new Anarchist Pack I don't think you'd see a push away from it, but as is it seems like a crap additional gambling chance added to a pack with fewer chances at getting anything we're going to be willing to spend the CCs to unlock.

[Tsillah]

Why not?

 

What exactly are you hiding here?

 

I suppose they don't want to go into the discussion about actual percentages because then they'd have to admit that they tweak percentages of items even after the packs go live. I can't prove it but I am thoroughly convinced that percentile chances are not fixed but are adapted regularly to control the flow of at least certain items.

[Pscyon]

Are Collection unlock prices going to be adjusted?

There are no plans to adjust Collection unlock prices at this time.

And most likely no plans to adjust the monthly coin grant upwards either. Well thanks for answering that, I guess.

[Reno_Tarshil]

Is it possible that I can get two Grand Chance Cubes in one pack (meaning no new items)?

Yes, this is possible. Just as with previous packs, it is possible to get two Bronze drops together, and in this case that means two Grand Chance Cubes. Keep in mind that you can get a new item from a Grand Chance Cube. It is even possible to get a full lootboxed version of one of the new Gold Armor Sets.

-eric

 

It should not be possible at all to get two chance cubes in a pack. People who buy your backs should always get at least 1 new item from that pack. Making both slots have the potential ruins the appeal of when a new pack launches. People want what's new. They should at least get one promised new item every time they open a pack. You seriously need to re-think this whole thing.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Reno_Tarshil

[Ryenke]

Hey folks,

 

Is it possible that I can get two Grand Chance Cubes in one pack (meaning no new items)?

Yes, this is possible. Just as with previous packs, it is possible to get two Bronze drops together, and in this case that means two Grand Chance Cubes. Keep in mind that you can get a new item from a Grand Chance Cube. It is even possible to get a full lootboxed version of one of the new Gold Armor Sets.

 

-eric

 

Way to mislead. The chance to get a new item out of a Crap Chance Cube has to be unbelievably low.

 

Take all the previous pack items, what, over 1000 of items now? then add the maybe 10 new things in the new pack to it - and combine that with the chance to get a gold or silver will be "better than in the Bronze" BSG pack (what was that infinitesimal chance btw) and you call that a "Grand Chance?"

 

It's pretty obvious to those of us who can read that the Grand Chance Cube will mean a Ball Toss item or similar.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ryenke

[Malachi_Bane]

Hey folks,

Is it possible that I can get two Grand Chance Cubes in one pack (meaning no new items)?

Yes, this is possible. Just as with previous packs, it is possible to get two Bronze drops together, and in this case that means two Grand Chance Cubes. Keep in mind that you can get a new item from a Grand Chance Cube. It is even possible to get a full lootboxed version of one of the new Gold Armor Sets.

 

So, by spending money on a NEW pack I have a very reasonable chance to get ZERO items from that new pack? Why would I ever do that if that was the case?

 

I honestly cannot grasp what you are thinking. Your game runs on microtransactions - that means MANY small purchases which accumulate over time. And yet you take bronze items - the ones with lowest unlockable costs away from new packs and replaced them with random items from old packs instead - none of which are hard to get from GTN even now.

 

People have warned you that this idea sucks and many will not be spending money on those "New items not guaranteed!" packs. Don't act like you didn't see that coming a few weeks down the line.