Combat and dying

[RunningJester]

My son talked me into brushing off WOW as a group of his friends were getting back into it and they wanted me to do dungeons with them. It has been more than a year since I played so I rolled up a new character.

 

I have to say, it was refreshing to actually worry about dying while in combat, or to even die and have a small consequence for doing so.

 

I love SWTOR, have 5 characters in chapter 9 and I am working on the 6th. I love the story, the companion interaction and all that jazz.

 

But combat is so easy that it takes away from the fun of the game.

[LordValnor]

I am likely going to return to WoW because of the strict weapon rules. I just came to SWTOR a few days ago, have a Sith Assassin now and a Juggernaut. I really love my Assassin gameplay but I can not stand the fact that I am forced to have a double bladed lightsaber. It drives me nuts that I can not use what I like for a class / spec. This is the only game I have played that has rules like this still. I should at the very least be able to use the outfit / costume system to make the appearance or what I like. Feels to strict for me, and in an MMO freedom of choices is a big deal. This game has it all other than the weapon locks by class / spec. If that was not the case I would have already subbed.

[Vodolebon]

The funniest thing is when they force a class to use this or that weapon, and then you barely use it.

My Advanced prototype bounty hunter mostly uses her pistol to destroy mission objectives, all the fighting is done with gadgets, and my Lightning Sorc still wonders why he has a lightsaber.

My agent has a rifle and a knife, but in the cutscenes, he's always using a magic pistol that doesn't exist. go figure.

 

I will also add that it made me avoid some advanced classes, not that the skill trees were not interesting, but i didn't want 2 lightsabers, or i wanted 2 pistols, so...

 

I don't have any hopes for this, since it was a day 1 decision, but an rpg where you don't choose your weapon...

[Jerqa]

I am likely going to return to WoW because of the strict weapon rules. I just came to SWTOR a few days ago, have a Sith Assassin now and a Juggernaut. I really love my Assassin gameplay but I can not stand the fact that I am forced to have a double bladed lightsaber. It drives me nuts that I can not use what I like for a class / spec. This is the only game I have played that has rules like this still. I should at the very least be able to use the outfit / costume system to make the appearance or what I like. Feels to strict for me, and in an MMO freedom of choices is a big deal. This game has it all other than the weapon locks by class / spec. If that was not the case I would have already subbed.

 

You are still able to use a single blade lightsaber as an Assassin, but you will not be able to use a few of your abilities that require a double-bladed lightsaber. As long as you are not a "min-max" player it really does not affect gameplay. I use a single blade for my Assassin most of the time, and switch to a double when needed.

 

A lot of the games that I play have weapon restrictions. In EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lord of the Rings online, Age of Conan, and Rift they all have weapon restrictions based on your class.

[RunningJester]

Even WOW has restriction on weapons use. A mage can only use One-Handed Swords, Staves, Daggers, Wands for example.

 

I am actually more annoyed by races being restricted from certain classes in WOW. Why can't my dwarf be a Druid?

[LordValnor]

You are still able to use a single blade lightsaber as an Assassin, but you will not be able to use a few of your abilities that require a double-bladed lightsaber. As long as you are not a "min-max" player it really does not affect gameplay. I use a single blade for my Assassin most of the time, and switch to a double when needed.

 

A lot of the games that I play have weapon restrictions. In EverQuest, EverQuest II, Lord of the Rings online, Age of Conan, and Rift they all have weapon restrictions based on your class.

 

I like to PvP so it is enough of a negative impact to use a single saber. I play LOTRO and no, they weapon restictions for my Guardian and Champion were no where near this. I could dual wield, 2H, use axes, sword, etc. While I understand that this is SWTOR and that we use firearms / lightsabers it is still a matter of cosmetic choices for RP purposes that I find myself unsatisfied. I will play free for a bit, but until I can play with a little bit more freedom I am not going to give up any money lol. I do like the game, just not worth my money if I have to be unhappy with my favored class due to forced weapon type.

[Vhaegrant]

On topic... yeah, basic solo content can be a bit of a snooze fest if you are experienced. One of the joys of having to balance the same content for a wide array of player ability and character roles.

 

Slightly on topic... the weapon restriction for Advanced Classes is a feature of PvP play and acts as a visual representation of character class (in all but a few cases) along with the associated ability animations.

The key word here is 'Tactical Transparency' providing a player with information to make tactical considerations and tailor there gameplay. In general terms if a player has no idea about what an enemy can do they tend to play safe and rely on a very limited set of abilities.

Not that I feel this is the right decision. In a PvE group no one cares what weapon you use, or the animations, as long as you can do the role you signed up for. In a solo environment, hey why can't I do what I want... a point driven home by the very quick adoption of adaptive armour. Yay, I can tank like the best while wearing a bikini

The sad truth is it is a reflection on how trying to make a single interface for a wide range of game styles has compromises.

It's not as if the tech/coding isn't there to deal with using different weapons for the same ability. A Commando has the Ability Stockstrike (shared with Vanguards), a Commando's given weapon is an Assault cannon but they can get by on Blaster Rifles. Use Stockstrike with an assault cannon equipped and they swing it in front of them. Use Stockstrike with a Blaster Rifle equipped and they use the same animation as the Vanguard (an AC that only uses blaster rifles).

 

Completely off topic... you could not drag me back to WoW.

[LordValnor]

Even WOW has restriction on weapons use. A mage can only use One-Handed Swords, Staves, Daggers, Wands for example.

 

I am actually more annoyed by races being restricted from certain classes in WOW. Why can't my dwarf be a Druid?

 

Yeah, but that example is multiple weapons, as an Assassin in SWTOR I get ONE, not even a choice, just ONE weapon type to use. I mean really they could have made a single lightsaber work the same, really was no need to be so strict on weapon appearances.

 

I am also with you on race / class combos. Why restrict things like this? Why not give the players (who pay for the game) the options to play how they want? If you want to be a Dwarven Druid, Troll Paladin, Night Elf Warlock, Tauren Rogue, why not? I get it. Lucky for me I use a Human DK and Blood Elf Hunter so I am cool with my class / race combo but I support those who have a wish to play how they want, because I know the feeling lol.

 

If I could have a single lightsaber on an Assassin, without the gimp it would cause, I would be quite happy. Even dual wield would be fine. Just not a double lightsaber.

[Warrgames]

Yeah, but that example is multiple weapons, as an Assassin in SWTOR I get ONE, not even a choice, just ONE weapon type to use. I mean really they could have made a single lightsaber work the same, really was no need to be so strict on weapon appearances.

 

I am also with you on race / class combos. Why restrict things like this? Why not give the players (who pay for the game) the options to play how they want? If you want to be a Dwarven Druid, Troll Paladin, Night Elf Warlock, Tauren Rogue, why not? I get it. Lucky for me I use a Human DK and Blood Elf Hunter so I am cool with my class / race combo but I support those who have a wish to play how they want, because I know the feeling lol.

 

If I could have a single lightsaber on an Assassin, without the gimp it would cause, I would be quite happy. Even dual wield would be fine. Just not a double lightsaber.

 

You get 2 choice for assassin...

You can say that they are the same basically, just have different looks and I will agree there but that is no different than WoW or any other mmo.

 

Rogue Dual wield

Hunters use range

Warroirs depending on spec use two hand, dual wield or shield and one handed

so on

 

You only believe that you get to choose your weapons.

 

On Topic:

 

5 yrs ago when I quit wow. Leveling was a joke. You couldn't die unless you were brain dead. Throw on leveling gear and you were a god.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Warrgames

[RunningJester]

You get 2 choice for assassin...

 

5 yrs ago when I quit wow. Leveling was a joke. You couldn't die unless you were brain dead. Throw on leveling gear and you were a god.

 

I was not playing 5 years ago, but now leveling and combat in general is exponentially harder in WOW than SWTOR. One has to pay attention to their health bar in WOW, not so much in SWTOR.

 

Also, with 2 hours of solid game play in SWTOR you can easliy be level 15 if not higher. I have been doing WOW off an on since Monday and I have not yet hit 15.

[Zerole]

OP, are you comparing solo gameplay in swtor to group content in WoW?

 

Tacticals are far harder than any sort of leveling dungeon you will find in WoW. It's all faceroll conent while leveling. Towards the middle of WoD, we would pull nearly half the dungeon in a single pull while level and have absolutely no fear.

 

I can only fathom you are comparing story mode solo player stuff in swtor to dungeons in wow, which is patently absurd.

[Warrgames]

I was not playing 5 years ago, but now leveling and combat in general is exponentially harder in WOW than SWTOR. One has to pay attention to their health bar in WOW, not so much in SWTOR.

 

Also, with 2 hours of solid game play in SWTOR you can easliy be level 15 if not higher. I have been doing WOW off an on since Monday and I have not yet hit 15.

 

I disagree with you. I haven't played in 5 years but games don't make the leveling process harder as the game ages. Games add more levels and make leveling easier because they don't want players to feel overwhelmed getting to max level. There a bunch of videos on you-tube about people complaining how easy WoW is.

 

If my plate wasn't full with games I want to play I would download WoW to prove you wrong. Just started B&S and still have to maintain 3 other mmo.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Warrgames

[RunningJester]

OP, are you comparing solo gameplay in swtor to group content in WoW?

 

Tacticals are far harder than any sort of leveling dungeon you will find in WoW. It's all faceroll conent while leveling. Towards the middle of WoD, we would pull nearly half the dungeon in a single pull while level and have absolutely no fear.

 

I can only fathom you are comparing story mode solo player stuff in swtor to dungeons in wow, which is patently absurd.

 

No, I am comparing solo combat in SWTOR to solo combat in WOW. You cannot do a dungeon till at least level 15, till then you are out killing things.

 

In SWTOR solo combat there is basically zero chance of dying unless you run around and get 10 mobs to all attack at once, and that does not always work. With a companion on either tank or DPS one can literally not even hit the attack button once and win the fight.

 

In WOW there is a much larger chance to die, especially at lower levels. My first death on WOW was due to the fact I never looked at my health bar because after playing SWTOR i got out of the habit of doing so.

 

There is much I love about SWTOR, combat is not one of them.

[Zerole]

My experiences with WoW, especially sub level 20, is VASTLY different than yours. You can literally turn on auto attack and afk in WoW and kill a mob. I'm not defending swtor saying solo combat is complex and not way too easy, but saying WoW is a challenge?

 

 

Odd.

[RunningJester]

I disagree with you. I haven't played in 5 years but games don't make the leveling process harder as the game ages. Games add more levels and make leveling easier because they don't want players to feel overwhelmed getting to max level. There a bunch of videos on you-tube about people complaining how easy WoW is.

 

If my plate wasn't full with games I want to play I would download WoW to prove you wrong. Just started B&S and still have to maintain 3 other mmo.

 

Didnt say that WOW was not "easy" but that SWTOR is so much more so. Leveling and combat in SWTOR is much simpler than WOW. A new character can leave their starting world at level 15 after less than an hour or so of game time.

Edited January 20, 2016 by RunningJester

[DarthDrachonus]

I disagree with you. I haven't played in 5 years but games don't make the leveling process harder as the game ages. Games add more levels and make leveling easier because they don't want players to feel overwhelmed getting to max level. There a bunch of videos on you-tube about people complaining how easy WoW is.

 

If my plate wasn't full with games I want to play I would download WoW to prove you wrong. Just started B&S and still have to maintain 3 other mmo.

 

You've obviously not played any of Everquest. The leveling didn't get easier at all. On the contrary it's gotten harder as the game has aged. Still fun. But not easy. Not by ANY means

[Warrgames]

You've obviously not played any of Everquest. The leveling didn't get easier at all. On the contrary it's gotten harder as the game has aged. Still fun. But not easy. Not by ANY means

 

I've tired Everquest and it wasn't fun. It was the first MMO I ever played and didn't make it past level 5.

[Gzerro]

You've obviously not played any of Everquest. The leveling didn't get easier at all. On the contrary it's gotten harder as the game has aged. Still fun. But not easy. Not by ANY means

 

Everquest got much easier as the expansions rolled out. Kunark was super easy compared to pre-expansion, and each expansion after that added various QOL items.

 

End game before the level cap increase with Kunark was also insanely difficult. I recall spending 8 solid hours just helping a friends guild recover from a wipe in the plane of fear (back when you had to physically loot your corpse or lose all of your stuff). Later they added things like corpse pull etc to make risk taking much more trivial.

 

After that I walked to school 6 miles in the snow without shoes.

[SootyTX]

Everquest got much easier as the expansions rolled out. Kunark was super easy compared to pre-expansion, and each expansion after that added various QOL items.

 

End game before the level cap increase with Kunark was also insanely difficult. I recall spending 8 solid hours just helping a friends guild recover from a wipe in the plane of fear (back when you had to physically loot your corpse or lose all of your stuff). Later they added things like corpse pull etc to make risk taking much more trivial.

 

After that I walked to school 6 miles in the snow without shoes.

 

As a former Rathe raid leader - omg yes. Our first attempt at a plane raid (fear? the one where you couldn't sit down without aggroing patrols through the walls) resulted in a similar fate and a bunch of guys from BotS came along to help us get clear without too much perma-loss. Early EQ raiding was a level of brutal modern players can't imagine, lol.

[Zerole]

Everquest is not an example of games staying difficult as they age. The leveling curve today is a fraction of what it used to be, not to mention the points already made about the introduction of better gear making the game inherently easier.

[Cicgnar]

I was not playing 5 years ago, but now leveling and combat in general is exponentially harder in WOW than SWTOR. One has to pay attention to their health bar in WOW, not so much in SWTOR.

 

Also, with 2 hours of solid game play in SWTOR you can easliy be level 15 if not higher. I have been doing WOW off an on since Monday and I have not yet hit 15.

 

I'm sorry but... No. Leveling in WoW is a boring joke, since your health bar is nearly infinite (unless you pull suicide groups much larger than intented... that also happens here. Yet I remember rogues being one of the squishiest classes at first and I distinctly remember myself killing 12 mobs for pull without breaking a sweat) but takes FAR longer than here.

 

I think that, the more time you have to spend to reach endgame, means more time wasted before you reach what you are intended to do. And please, don't argue with that, since WoW and this game have different focus.

 

This game is story-focused. The story drives everything and almost everything you encounter has some reason to be there you have to have previously seen. OPs and FPs are support for the story, something to do while we have our next storyline.

 

WoW is endgame-focused. It has a story, the very same for everyone also, but it's hard to follow, since it's hidden behind walls of text. And even if you DO follow it, or try, since Cataclysm is near to impossible since many things are now scrambled, and some questlines are cut short from their previous endings. Many Dungeons have no reason to exist, storywise, yet they are there still... Because that's what's the game is about. Heroic Dungeons, Raids, Arenas.... And for those you need to hit max-level as fast as you can.

[lilathrone]

I think you should try putting your companion to passive mode. Yeah it's not a solution, but for me the leveling became more fun this way.