Karkais Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 http://whatculture.com/film/star-wars-15-things-the-movies-stole-from-the-expanded-universe.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falensawino Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) its starting to annoy me that Disney are just gutting things from kotor and TOR and yet they are unwilling to acknowledge that the story is and design that Bioware is good enough to remain cannon. So you summed it up nicely. Knights of the Old Republic 1 was good, world changing twist. Everything that has followed KOTOR1 has been weaker each iteration . The 8 class story lines are a disaster, Lucasfilm and Disney are never going to utilize anything from the Old Republic MMO. Edited February 2, 2016 by Falensawino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilathrone Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 So you summed it up nicely. Knights of the Old Republic 1 was good, world changing twist. Everything that has followed KOTOR1 has been weaker each iteration . The 8 class story lines are a disaster, Lucasfilm and Disney are never going to utilize anything from the Old Republic MMO. I agree that KOTOR1 was the peak of the "series", but I also think that Kotor2 is almost as good (and better than anything that canon atm), and SW:ToR isn't that bad either, especially KOTFE, but yea the original class stories aren't even close to the old kotors in story quality (and companion wise) . The only thing I don't like (or even hate) is the milking of Revan. Seriously, they should have excluded him entirely from ToR, his story ended in the novel nicely, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUBBUH Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 TOR has eclipsed the movies for me. SW to me will always include Revan and Malak. Malgus and Satele. If films were made about any of those characters, they'd do just as well if not better i'd argue. Popularity does not determine whether or not a story is good. Canon does not determine whether a story is good. You determine if you like it, period. There are many misconceptions about why Disney decided to gut the entire EU. The reason, is somewhat simple. As usual with most business decisions, is money. Disney did not hold the trademarks on any of the EU characters. So why bother paying ridiculous prices for a Plagueis trademark, when you can simply make Snoke? And make him more kid friendly to boot? The list goes on and on. Also, it is funny too see even the original films be held in such a high regard. They are good, don't get me wrong. But also ridiculously cheesy at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuiwe Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Honestly, who cares? You alone should judge whether you like a story. I mean just look at my order of stories: 1. Consular 2. Trooper 3. Knight 4. Inquisitor 5. Bounty Hunter 6. Smuggler 7. Warrior 8. Agent Is Agent the best written story? Yes. Do I positively hate the everloving crap out of it? Yes. Could I give a definite reason why? Yes. Do I care whether others like it? No. Your character is your own. Love it, cherish the experiences you had with it. With that said, few things: You don't have to like a popular thing. You don't have to like a quality thing. A quality thing doesn't have to be popular(vice versa too). And it's never going to be a cannon. Canon, maybe, but a cannon? Doubtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karkais Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) TOR has eclipsed the movies for me. Same here, although a lot of it has to do with George and JJ Abrams, who have been hard at work infuriating me over all these years since original trilogy. Not seen TFA nor do I ever intend to. SW is dead apart from Bioware universe. Edited February 2, 2016 by Karkais Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilathrone Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Same here, although a lot of it has to do with George and JJ Abrams, who have been hard at work infuriating me over all these years since original trilogy. Not seen TFA nor do I ever intend to. SW is dead apart from Bioware universe. In my opinion movie stuff has value too, I liked them all (except for attack of the clones), but as I said before, Kotor is what made me LOVE Star Wars. At the moment the Kotor franchise (along with ToR) is the Star Wars for me, and movies are side stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haruen Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 No, it's not. Never has been. Rattatak wsa mentioned in "The Clone Wars", so, there's that. As other's note, it's their property, they can do as they like. What's the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUBBUH Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 No, it's not. Never has been. Rattatak wsa mentioned in "The Clone Wars", so, there's that. As other's note, it's their property, they can do as they like. What's the big deal? It is not exactly theirs. TOR, for the most part is the property of BW. Now sure, you can flip open a piece of paper where Disney bought Lucasfilm, who in turn licensed the title to BW to make KOTOR - Absolutely. Technically their property. Got it. However, they did not create this universe. They lack the respect it deserved. They didn't even bother asking before ruthlessly and unceremoniously gutting it, only to bring it back in a bastardized form. Hence, this is what Disney is renowned for with the franchises they purchase. And the 'big deal' so to speak is really quite simple. There will most likely never be a TOR game ever again. And as a very dedicated fan, it kinda breaks my heart to see potential -limitless potential- absolutely distastefully wasted on children TV shows. That is the essential issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haruen Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Uhm, okay. Personally, CW and Rebels is the best Star Wars material since "A New Hope". CW worked to make sense of and undo all the crap of the prequels. But, it's theirs. I follow your argument about "art". But, it's an IP, they paid for it, they can do what they like. Chucking the EU was their first great move. Rebels and TFA showed they knew what they were doing. <shrug> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUBBUH Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Uhm, okay. Personally, CW and Rebels is the best Star Wars material since "A New Hope". CW worked to make sense of and undo all the crap of the prequels. But, it's theirs. I follow your argument about "art". But, it's an IP, they paid for it, they can do what they like. Chucking the EU was their first great move. Rebels and TFA showed they knew what they were doing. <shrug> I never understood the relentless sentiment to the animated series. Even the original 2D CW. Admittedly, I have not been able to endure the first episode of Rebels, but I have seen the first season of CW. To say it is the 'best material' in the last 30 years, compared to the novels, comics, lore, games - I simply disagree. 'TFA showed they knew what they were doing' - Ok, Name one single flaw with Rey. Surely, I can't name a single flaw. This is what passes for great storytelling? Superwoman with a lightsaber? We can do better. It's 2016 and we have seen a golden age of television drama. I will not lower the standard because of the Star Wars title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBubba Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Who cares. I'll just use my imagination and decide what's canon and what's not for myself. I do know that the original R2-D2 toy was a cannon. You just turned his little body right around and bam, droid cannon. I'm pretty sure that's not canon though. Hmm, now I'm getting confused. Is the R2-D2 cannon canon or non-canon cannon? Try saying that ten times really fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBubba Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I never understood the relentless sentiment to the animated series. Even the original 2D CW. Admittedly, I have not been able to endure the first episode of Rebels, but I have seen the first season of CW. To say it is the 'best material' in the last 30 years, compared to the novels, comics, lore, games - I simply disagree. 'TFA showed they knew what they were doing' - Ok, Name one single flaw with Rey. Surely, I can't name a single flaw. This is what passes for great storytelling? Superwoman with a lightsaber? We can do better. It's 2016 and we have seen a golden age of television drama. I will not lower the standard because of the Star Wars title. So did you like TFA and Rey or not really? It's sort of hard to tell based on that last paragraph. On one hand you seem to praise TFA and the people for making it because they "knew what they were doing." and on the other hand you ask if this is what passes for great storytelling, ie: "superwoman with lightsaber." So I was just wondering if you loved the movie or not really? Or liked it but it had it's flaws. I do agree with you about the animation. I wasn't a big fan of the Cone Wars series and felt it was way too over the top. I also don't really see where any of it quite fits in as far as the timeline goes because they are constantly fighting Palpatine who's way more acrobatic and bad!#$ in the cartoon and yet during Revenge of the Sith nobody seems to remember he's the big bad evil emperor. Or what about Anakin's padawan? That's not something you just gloss over and forget. No mention of her in any of the movies because she was made up after the fact which is why I really don't care for any of this being canon. Rebels isn't bad but it's not great either. Sort of like some of the Star Wars games they keep putting out. Some are great and some are not so great. Most are just average. The Star Wars name alone tends to make people grade things higher than they deserve. Star Wars Galaxies was NOT a great mmo even before the NGE came out. There's a reason why they felt they had to take drastic measures and it did not have the subscribers it needed. I just think if it was half as great as everyone's nostalgia seems to recall then it would not have been in such dire straits at that time. Wow put a hurting on it and people preferred Wow. The Force Unleashed was not a great game. The Clone Wars and Rebels are both good kids shows. Not great, not the most legendary, epic, awesomesauce thing since sliced bread and butter. But that's just my single opinion and you are more than welcome to disagree with me because if you love the shows then obviously they are great to you and your opinion is every bit as valid as mine is. It's hard to define what's good and bad because the very definition not to mention the criteria for defining it changes from person to person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
branmakmuffin Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 And the 'big deal' so to speak is really quite simple. There will most likely never be a TOR game ever again. And as a very dedicated fan, it kinda breaks my heart to see potential -limitless potential- absolutely distastefully wasted on children TV shows. That is the essential issue. SW turned into The Muppet Show with RotJ, so not sure what your point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazeTomahawk Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 actually according to Disney the new cannon is the films and the tv shows clone wars and rebels and any other material produced under Disney like the comics and novels So all that super dumb ******* about the "father" and the "daughter " and all that is canon? Lord protect us.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thank GOD it's not!!! The whole 300 year old Revan with the patch work face was just absurd...add to that the emperor being able to destroy Ziost with just the force and this game has gone so far overboard that it's silly. Disney isn't dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qouivandes Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 i would love for this game to be partnered into the fold of what is considered cannon, but $$ will come before emotion for bean counters. outside of that, individual views on what is good and what is bad is just that...individual views. I would not think to tell someone that their enjoyment of the prequels is misplaced any more than I would make veiled insults to parts of the story--cannon or not--that i dont enjoy. Personally, i just didnt enjoy the animated shorts. I couldnt get into the style that they were produced. I enjoyed the Clone Wars movie and enjoyed the series. I missed a lot of Rebels and waiting for the opportunity to start from episode 1 and catch up, but the few episodes i did watch were not enough to encourage me to go out of my way to start. i will also come out and say that i enjoyed episodes 1-6 and while i would have taken the first three in a different direction and/or written a better script, I am not Lucas. i do hope that Disney corrects the Han/Gueedo situation because i dont think Sam Beckett leaps that far away. as for the new movie, JJ played it safe. while i wasnt expecting a time altering reboot of the franchise, i was expecting something ...new. It wasnt all bad and I did enjoy myself, but i was expecting something different. doesnt really matter, though, what i think it should have been or what it could have been its all there. as for tOR...would be nice if they acknowledge this game as being part of the lore. it has a pretty good historical establishment that could actually add to what they bring to the table as we move forward. and, if anything, if they decide to change something it could more easily be chalked up to the 3000 years between time periods. overall, though I would take them acknowledging Kylo Ren's mask being Raven inspired at this point. i would suggest that instead of debating the merits of the material available that a more interesting discussion could be had with discussing the material itself and how it may or may not contribute to what Disney has locked into their galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlazeTomahawk Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Thank GOD it's not!!! The whole 300 year old Revan with the patch work face was just absurd...add to that the emperor being able to destroy Ziost with just the force and this game has gone so far overboard that it's silly. Disney isn't dumb. Revan himself is the joke. "I'm the bestest Jedi ever! No, I'm a super strong Sith Lord! No, I'm the best of both! Look at how awesome I am!" Blah, blah blah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Revan himself is the joke. "I'm the bestest Jedi ever! No, I'm a super strong Sith Lord! No, I'm the best of both! Look at how awesome I am!" Blah, blah blah I could not agree more. That "look, there's 2 of us now" thing was just absurd. Typical Bioware development...they don't stop when they have a good thing, they push it until they are able to ruin it. Look at Yoda, this tiny little green 300 yr old Jedi puppet is he's supposed to be extremely strong in the force, yet the most he can do is flip around and throw things...Revan can literally split himself in two, and the Emperor can destroy entire planets and control anyone he wants... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I prefer to embrace the perspective that nothing Disney does is canon with SWTOR. Disney = alternate mythos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I prefer to embrace the perspective that nothing Disney does is canon with SWTOR. Disney = alternate mythos. Because Jar-Jar wasn't corny as ****? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roccobb Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Because Jar-Jar wasn't corny as ****? Error. Jar Jar not found in memory banks. Try another command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoronmir Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Because Jar-Jar wasn't corny as ****? Yeah, let me clarify ... the entire "Disney" canon is noncanon to me. That includes all the "canon" Disney inherited from Lucas. So, everything from Jar Jar through that pouty, emo, Darth Wet-Diaper from the latest movie is alternate mythos ... to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Yeah, let me clarify ... the entire "Disney" canon is noncanon to me. That includes all the "canon" Disney inherited from Lucas. So, everything from Jar Jar through that pouty, emo, Darth Wet-Diaper from the latest movie is alternate mythos ... to me. THANK GOD! You had me concerned for a moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-darko Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) So how have your sleep in carbonite been since 2012? Edited February 2, 2016 by t-darko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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