GSF needs love

[Greezt]

Well, look at it like this : It's like the Matthew Effect : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_effect and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preferential_attachment

Or, in other words : The rich ones are given even more, and the poor ones get taken from.

Like PvP or GSF farming of Newbies or of generally weaker players - by players who have better skill and better gear. It is not below them to squeeze out those who are poor.

 

Well, it is like The American Dream : From low beginnings working into the top.

 

To me, that's a mere illusion, kind of a trap, made up by dark triad people to exploit others on their way up.

Like "you can become a star if you follow my rules ! Only for 10 dollars !"

 

The end result, however, is that mostly dark triad peopl end up being at the top, because they know the brst ways to get there. And they stay there, because they know how to stay in the top as well.

 

Nowadays I tend to believe that a dark triad mindset is almost an requirement to get to the top.

 

Philosophy aside, factually you want to progress, or why are you even playing this game? Why not give everyone a lvl 65 min/maxed toon?

[MDVZ]

Nowadays I tend to believe that a dark triad mindset is almost an requirement to get to the top.

 

And yet the guy that is arguably at the top of GSF (a chap that goes by Drakolich) does the following:

 

Makes tutorial videos on how to fly the ships

Gives one on one training to new players

Has a thread on the forum called 'ask me anything' in which he answers any GSF question

Streams pretty much all the time, in which you can actually hear him not being all dark-triad-y

Has a thread on the GSF forum with all his ship builds

 

If sociopaths lead the game, then he's the top sociopath....right?

[Homodmitrius]

Let GSF go the way of Eve Online and make 150 plus man fleets and lets go to a galaxy far, far away go have some real space battles.

Eve is a battle of flaghsips, GSF is battle of fighters, which more fits Star Wars universe.

[MDVZ]

I assumed that I can just improve the first ship, instead of buying other ones, because they will be of a different class. I want to stay on the same class. I don't really care how it looks, it's always look like a circle anyway.

 

EDIT: That's if I can get past the Tutorial, obviously. Otherwise it's moot point. I should not get ahead.

 

Well, the tutorial will put you in a poorly built T2 scout, which you won't have to begin with anyway.

 

There are 4 classes, each with 3 ships and they all play differently, including within a class. You can have up to 5 ships ready for a match ('in your hanger' or 'on your bar') so that you can be ready to contribute to the team in whatever way the team needs/you can do best.

Edited January 21, 2016 by MDVZ

[MaximilianPower]

I assumed that I can just improve the first ship, instead of buying other ones, because they will be of a different class. I want to stay on the same class. I don't really care how it looks, it's always look like a circle anyway.

 

EDIT: That's if I can get past the Tutorial, obviously. Otherwise it's moot point. I should not get ahead.

 

I understand where you're coming from, but if you really want to give GSF a fair shake, you may at least want to test drive more than one ship. Yes, from the cockpit they all look like a circle, but the feel/playstyle can be vastly different. Zooming around in a scout, lumbering along in a bomber, scoping on a gunship...sure, focusing on a specific ship will increase your req gains/abilities/skillz in that one ship, but perhaps you would have found a different one more enjoyable, or maybe you already have a skillset better suited to a particular type of ship. Can't hurt to give each of them at least a quick spin around the block.

 

Also: note that when you pop your daily/weekly req tokens, every ship in your hangar receives additional requisition. So, ultimately, the more ships you have, the more req you get. Many folks like to accumulate fleet req and save up all of their ship req tokens until they've unlocked a full hangar. I'm not suggesting you do that, but I'd certainly recommend not wasting the 5k fleet req reward from the intro quest on ship upgrades: use it to buy at least one additional ship before moving on to the daily/weekly.

Edited January 21, 2016 by MaximilianPower

[DomiSotto]

Noted. Still need to see if I can manage the controls before deciding anything else. Give me time, I promise not to forget to let you know.

[Vhaegrant]

A better tutorial is something we would all like.

 

Gear does make a difference, but not as much as players think. Certain upgrades do give a visible advantage (armor penetration, or the ion AoE), but most of them don't make that big a difference. The main problem is that the basic ships have trap components on them, and that they deal ridiculously bad damage. Fixing that would be better than taking away upgrades.

 

I don't see upgrades as bribes, I see them as rewards. There's nothing wrong with getting recompense for perseverance. Advancement is a major part of MMOs, so why should GSF be different?

 

Also, it would be kind of boring if you started with all ships mastered...

I'm torn about the rewards. It's a fairly standard situation in tabletop games as well, the longer you play the more powerful your character gets, so really you shouldn't be surprised when a high level character stomps all over a low level character.

That's why I was suggesting more of a buff/debuff for dying/killing someone. That way you still get the sense of advancement in improving ships but it clips your wings if you start dominating or raises you up to provide a bit more of a challenge if you are struggling.

Again, the buff/debuff would only be something for unranked play (social/ learning environment)

 

Probably the biggest thing that keeps me away from GSF though is not having a shared hanger. If they managed to work out how to have a shared hanger across your legacy I'd probably drop by a bit more often. Not sure what the issue here is, they seem perfectly capable of sharing information across legacy for collection unlocks (that one actually goes across account) and achievements.

[Greezt]

I'm torn about the rewards. It's a fairly standard situation in tabletop games as well, the longer you play the more powerful your character gets, so really you shouldn't be surprised when a high level character stomps all over a low level character.

That's why I was suggesting more of a buff/debuff for dying/killing someone. That way you still get the sense of advancement in improving ships but it clips your wings if you start dominating or raises you up to provide a bit more of a challenge if you are struggling.

Again, the buff/debuff would only be something for unranked play (social/ learning environment)

 

Probably the biggest thing that keeps me away from GSF though is not having a shared hanger. If they managed to work out how to have a shared hanger across your legacy I'd probably drop by a bit more often. Not sure what the issue here is, they seem perfectly capable of sharing information across legacy for collection unlocks (that one actually goes across account) and achievements.

 

I actually thought of that long time ago with friends.... I even put a suggestion that requisition should be legacy-wide (like PvP comms). It could really ease players in if they could level/pve while doing GSF, instead of being bound to one toon.

 

Maybe one day...

Edited January 21, 2016 by Greezt

[DomiSotto]

I went through the Tutorial a few times. It's hard to make ship to move where you want it to move on the mini-map. Shooting down the drones was easy. Waited for a pop about 5 min, got a deathmatch. Despite reading and watching the tutorial, did not really quite figure out I suppose how to hit things; either I was too far away, or I should have actually manually targeted them, unlike the drones, that seem to be hit by default. The rest of the controls is fine, switching power there and back, going faster, is easy. I was worried about getting too close to the rocks because I don't know how to turn around and was afraid to crush.

 

Self-destructed twice (rock and ran out of the fighting area), got killed twice, contributed to 1 kill. Did not realize that I have to hit 'ready' button so sat in respawn for a while, thought it was like a PvP arena, when dead is dead. There was nothing on the chat channel, so turned it off.

 

So, 1/20, and I was an exact equivalent of the 4X PvEer in the Arena who just loads and tries to hit things. I also could not see what other people were doing so I did not feel overawed like in the fist PvP match. It's very sterile compared.

[tunewalker]

I went through the Tutorial a few times. It's hard to make ship to move where you want it to move on the mini-map. Shooting down the drones was easy. Waited for a pop about 5 min, got a deathmatch. Despite reading and watching the tutorial, did not really quite figure out I suppose how to hit things; either I was too far away, or I should have actually manually targeted them, unlike the drones, that seem to be hit by default. The rest of the controls is fine, switching power there and back, going faster, is easy. I was worried about getting too close to the rocks because I don't know how to turn around and was afraid to crush.

 

Self-destructed twice (rock and ran out of the fighting area), got killed twice, contributed to 1 kill. Did not realize that I have to hit 'ready' button so sat in respawn for a while, thought it was like a PvP arena, when dead is dead. There was nothing on the chat channel, so turned it off.

 

So, 1/20, and I was an exact equivalent of the 4X PvEer in the Arena who just loads and tries to hit things. I also could not see what other people were doing so I did not feel overawed like in the fist PvP match. It's very sterile compared.

 

So some notes on this, did you have annotations turned on in the tutorial video that was linked? If so then something to note is the "hitting things" problem you were having. Remember to "lock on" to your target either with E (the target ship under cursor) The TAB (target clostest target, just like ground pvp) or with R key (Target ship that hit you) this will give you the ship in a circle then there will be a line coming from that ship and another circle, this is called the "lead reticule" essentially you have to "lead your shots" and this "reticule" tells you where to lead your shots. Since a turret is not moving it does not have a lead reticule (part of why we consider the tutorial to be utter garbage) so just shooting the body gets desired results. Other then that good luck, and even if your aim is perfect, there is the whole "accuracy vs Evasion" mechanic that works the same as Accuracy vs Defense on the ground game.

 

 

 

Edit: for more on topic note, I havent played GSF all that much recently, mostly because I havent played the game itself all that much recently. GSF has not had any changes in so long that its stagnant nature has made it less interesting to me. If they would do ANYTHING with it (especially balance passes) I would probably play more. The rest of the game I dont play as much simply because the people i used to play with just dont play any more, and time constraints can be a real problem for finding another group to take me raiding as a gaurdian DPS in Hard Modes with out much gear and on a server where no one really knows who I am so no faith in my ability to do such things just on my word and with no gear.

Edited January 22, 2016 by tunewalker

[Greezt]

Domi, who don't you do an "a gsf a day" thread? I'm sure you'll find it just as interesting as your PvP one

[DomiSotto]

So some notes on this, did you have annotations turned on in the tutorial video that was linked?

 

Yes, and I have remapped the targeting options as well to what I use in the ground PvP. I will need to rewatch the video now I have seen what it looks like in the game, and refly the tutorial a few times with trying to see if I can rebind L/R strafe and can turn away from targets. Strafe up/Down did not seem to have any effect on the ship movement. I assumed that if I am heading into a rock, I would use that to lift my ship above it. I will also need to remap the starfe L/R, but the Strafe Up and down did not seem to do anything when I tried it in the Tutorial.

 

And, yeah, I will need to move my notes from this thread, because it has little to do with the need for GSF changes.

[ALaggyGrunt]

Strafe is slow and subtle. You don't use it for sudden and fast slides.

[Greezt]

And, yeah, I will need to move my notes from this thread, because it has little to do with the need for GSF changes.

 

By all means, keep them here if you want. I only meant it would be a more interesting read to see a new GSFer's experience in one thread, without all the surrounding arguments by all the pro/anti GSF players here.

[MaximilianPower]

Strafe is slow and subtle. You don't use it for sudden and fast slides.

 

This. To go over that rock in front of you, point your nose up (or down, and go under it, or L/R around it, etcetera). Strafing is not the way to get around obstacles immediately in front of you, it's simply too slow.

 

Upon reflection - and maybe my fellow GSFers can weigh in on this - just starting out, I'd suggest ignoring strafe entirely. Consider it something of an advanced maneuver; you don't need it, and it will only make the learning curve more difficult. I actually didn't use strafe at all (for a while I didn't even even know it existed) for my entire first year of GSF, and I did fine. Now, I use it all the time on a gunship...it's perfect for slowly sliding out from behind an object to get LOS on an enemy, or into cover out of LOS (and also the only way to move a GS when you're scoped in). But I still rarely use it on anything else. Bombers sometimes, to get in just the right position. On a speedy scout, I'm usually boosting too much to make strafing useful (or even viable).

[DomiSotto]

That's very interesting, thank you. I want to get the movement first, since suiciding is so silly. Peculiarly, at the first glance, most binds in GSF are related not to the fighting, but to the movement and the cameras.

[Urglab]

This. To go over that rock in front of you, point your nose up (or down, and go under it, or L/R around it, etcetera). Strafing is not the way to get around obstacles immediately in front of you, it's simply too slow.

 

Upon reflection - and maybe my fellow GSFers can weigh in on this - just starting out, I'd suggest ignoring strafe entirely. Consider it something of an advanced maneuver; you don't need it, and it will only make the learning curve more difficult. I actually didn't use strafe at all (for a while I didn't even even know it existed) for my entire first year of GSF, and I did fine. Now, I use it all the time on a gunship...it's perfect for slowly sliding out from behind an object to get LOS on an enemy, or into cover out of LOS (and also the only way to move a GS when you're scoped in). But I still rarely use it on anything else. Bombers sometimes, to get in just the right position. On a speedy scout, I'm usually boosting too much to make strafing useful (or even viable).

 

Yes, strafing is very useful in certain cases. But best to focus on normal flying, shooting and spatial awareness first.

[PorsaLindahl]

This. To go over that rock in front of you, point your nose up (or down, and go under it, or L/R around it, etcetera). Strafing is not the way to get around obstacles immediately in front of you, it's simply too slow.

 

Upon reflection - and maybe my fellow GSFers can weigh in on this - just starting out, I'd suggest ignoring strafe entirely. Consider it something of an advanced maneuver; you don't need it, and it will only make the learning curve more difficult. I actually didn't use strafe at all (for a while I didn't even even know it existed) for my entire first year of GSF, and I did fine. Now, I use it all the time on a gunship...it's perfect for slowly sliding out from behind an object to get LOS on an enemy, or into cover out of LOS (and also the only way to move a GS when you're scoped in). But I still rarely use it on anything else. Bombers sometimes, to get in just the right position. On a speedy scout, I'm usually boosting too much to make strafing useful (or even viable).

 

Agree. Strafing is for LoS maneuvering for gunships and for those bombers that like to jam themselves into a corner underneath a sat. I've used it on rare occasions with a scout - trying to unseat a bomber from underneath a sat. Slip in around the corner, emp, pop around the corner and kill. But like Max said, scouts are usually going too fast for strafing.

[MDVZ]

I'd say the only times a scout benefits from strafing are sneaking up behind a GS and getting a better firing angle in the process - not essential in the least, but sometimes handy, stripping turrets a little faster without overshooting them, and getting the right angle to kill ticking bombers.

 

All pretty marginal stuff, nothing that makes the difference between win and lose, except maybe the last one.

[Lendul]

This on going discussion on the controls should help show that a big part of GSF needs some love is in the tutorial. A suggestion for your learning experience Dom. I think a secondary control that you might find more useful than strafe to get a handle on would be the roll left/right controls. I use them very frequently while I very seldom use strafe. Think of strafe as more of a peek around the corner control. Edited January 23, 2016 by Lendul

[MDVZ]

This on going discussion on the controls should help show that a big part of GSF needs some love is in the tutorial. A suggestion for your learning experience Dom. I think a secondary control that you might find more useful than strafe to get a handle on would me the roll left/right controls. I use them very frequently while I very seldom use strafe. Think of strafe as more of a peek around the corner control.

 

Yep. Rolling is just above basic controls and well within core skills for a competent pilot, purely because pitch has a much higher turn rate than yaw; pitching to a target is always correct.

[Stradlin]

That's very interesting, thank you. I want to get the movement first, since suiciding is so silly. Peculiarly, at the first glance, most binds in GSF are related not to the fighting, but to the movement and the cameras.

 

Look at Currently Selected Target and (to a much lesser degree) Free Look are the only camera controls you'll have to worry about. Maybe " look behind me!" when dropping mines and drones as a bomber pilot too.

 

WASD and the X - key (movement)

Number keys 1-4 (weapons,systems, engine,co pilot ability)

Spacebar(boost)

LMB&RMB! (Weapons)

Mouse movement in general

 

Energy distribution between engines, shields,lasers (F1-F3)

Targeting nearest enemy, targeting last enemy to attack me and targeting enemy under my cursor( Can't remember the default keys for these actually. It is very good to bind these to places you are comfortable with)

 

Unless I've forgotten something super important, these are the only keys you'll have to worry about in a long time.

[Homodmitrius]

LMB&RMB! (Weapons)

I just wanted to add, that you can lock on your missles and shoot via laser cannons in the same time.

[Eillack]

X-Wing Alliance only $10.00 on Steam

[Stradlin]

X-Wing Alliance only $10.00 on Steam

 

GSS-3 Mangler only 2500 fleet req on Hangar