GSF needs love

[FlavivsAetivs]

GSF also has separated yaw and roll, unlike battlefront, and I don't know if console-style controllers can do that (my old Joystick, and I'm fairly sure most joysticks do, I played Flight Simulator with does).

 

~ Eudoxia

Edited January 17, 2016 by FlavivsAetivs

[Lendul]

I refuse to fly M/KB. Plenty of games allow for both M/KB and flight stick, this should be no different.

 

Not allowing a flight stick simply because some pleayers do not own one would be like not supporting Razer Nagas because not everyone owns one.

I will ask you the same question I ask everyone else that brings this up. If they implemented Joystick compatibility would you play even though you would be at a disadvantage? GSF is not a flight sim it is a third person shooter with space ships and a z axis. Like others have mentioned usually " I want joystick" translates to I want to fly, but want aiming to be easy(autolock). Which takes a lot of the skill out of the game. Edited January 17, 2016 by Lendul

[ekwalizer]

I will ask you the same question I ask everyone else that brings this up. If they implemented Joystick compatibility would you play even though you would be at a disadvantage? GSF is not a flight sim it is a third person shooter with space ships and a z axis. Like others have mentioned usually " I want joystick" translates to I want to fly, but want aiming to be easy(autolock). Which takes a lot of the skill out of the game.

 

JTL didn't have autolock. And both inputs were equally effective. I knew plenty of very good M/KB aces in SWG.

Edited January 18, 2016 by ekwalizer

[Flixx]

Two things that came to me when thinking how to help GSF and the GSF community.

1) One of the ways SWTOR gains popularity and money is through cosmetic items. I believe players would enjoy being able to show off their ships and other items they have earned or bought in an area that functions similar to the fleets but it's where players can loiter around while in their decked out ships.

2) Have space world boss encounters. Have it instanced and similar to taking out turrets on bases. This would encourage teamwork in a safer environment. This would be a much better tutorial for newer players and it would give an alternative to the players not interested in PVP.

[Lendul]

JTL didn't have autolock.

You didn't answer the question. If they implemented joy stick compatibility would you play even though you would be at a disadvantage?

[Sarfux]

I won't make a long post pointing out my opinions in a half page long essay justifying why I agree with this and then counter argue other points along the way of other posters. I will just leave this here

 

I agree!

[Urglab]

Honestly I don't really understand where the people who only want to play with a flightstick are coming from. SWTOR is a m/k game, that's what the playerbase has. So of course GSF was developed with that in mind. And with GSF being a shooter and not a flightsim... well.

[Sarfux]

Honestly I don't really understand where the people who only want to play with a flightstick are coming from. SWTOR is a m/k game, that's what the playerbase has. So of course GSF was developed with that in mind. And with GSF being a shooter and not a flightsim... well.

It doesn't matter to some that TOR is a keyboard and mouse based game, if some want a flightstick. Then they DAMN WELL BETTER GET A FLIGHTSTICK!! Or they'll be mad at the devs for not doing so. This isn't a space sim or flight simulator. It's a different game. Force yourself to adapt.

[MDVZ]

/signed.

 

What love is difficult to say, exactly, but many points in here are excellent. The top one is, to my mind, make the starter ships, or at least their starter components, decent so new players don't hit a brick wall.

 

Beyond that, I appreciate bioware not making it pay to win, and only slowing advancement if you're FtP, rather than capping it, but it doesn't have much to monetise it. It makes sense for bioware to have something for people to dump money into if they want to, but it's not really in GSF. I think the main thing was supposed to be fleet req from ship req via cartel coins. Fine, but that caps out when you master ships. More paint jobs for ships (people start to take pride in them), decorations and so on with cartel coins might keep people paying.

 

Better integration with the ground game wouldn't hurt either. Even if you could, say, sell requisition for credits or use it to buy gear or whatever, that would get people flying, as it would help improve their characters faster.

[Alec_Fortescue]

They need to REMOVE cartel coins cost of the requisition coversion and make it all-legacy. It's way too grindy and way too expensive to play gsf. and they wonder why it is deserted.

[Urglab]

They need to REMOVE cartel coins cost of the requisition coversion and make it all-legacy. It's way too grindy and way too expensive to play gsf. and they wonder why it is deserted.

 

You don't need to convert ship req to fleet req at all. Just play the game and it will come. Hell you can buy 2 extra ships with the 5k fleet req from the introductory mission. A lot of really good GSF pilots don't even bother subbing, because there's simply no need to. Yes, they don't gain req as fast as subs but they certainly don't lack in ship choice.

[ReverendAnderson]

Which is how they should have designed it to begin with.

 

Post Script: Kill GSF? Really?!?

 

If they redesigned the controls now? Yeah, probably. With the current control scheme, no one with a flight stick could compete even if their sticks did work. If Bioware changed the controls so that sticks were competitive, the mouse controls have to get worse for everybody without a flight stick.

[DomiSotto]

If there is one part of the game I am against them putting anymore resources towards, it's GSF. It has no value added. Yes, a few people like it, but it is such a small minority that is pretty much insignificant, and it has near zero growth potential. It's a game within a game, that has insane amount of rules (like playing all 8 classes!) to be learned from ground up and it has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the game. Why they sank all the resources to create it in the first place is mind-boggling. Swoop races would have had more relevance....

 

Doing anything for GSF is throwing good money after bad.

Edited January 17, 2016 by DomiSotto

[MDVZ]

If they redesigned the controls now? Yeah, probably. With the current control scheme, no one with a flight stick could compete even if their sticks did work. If Bioware changed the controls so that sticks were competitive, the mouse controls have to get worse for everybody without a flight stick.

 

Last I checked, this was a hugely contentious point on the star citizen forums. Sticks/HOTAS have a very high skill ceiling and mouse-aiming is still better. And balancing them seems to be extremely difficult, requiring mouse to be nerfed to work.

[Greezt]

I won't make a long post pointing out my opinions in a half page long essay justifying why I agree with this and then counter argue other points along the way of other posters. I will just leave this here

 

I agree!

 

I just annexed your agreement. So now it's mine. Thanks.

[ReverendAnderson]

Last I checked, this was a hugely contentious point on the star citizen forums. Sticks/HOTAS have a very high skill ceiling and mouse-aiming is still better. And balancing them seems to be extremely difficult, requiring mouse to be nerfed to work.

 

Right. That's what I'm saying. The current controls would need to be nerfed if they added flight stick support, and nerfing the current controls just so some players could compete with flight sticks would kill GSF. Unless there are, somehow, tons of players who are just waiting for stick support before jumping into GSF.

[Nyla]

You don't need to convert ship req to fleet req at all. Just play the game and it will come. Hell you can buy 2 extra ships with the 5k fleet req from the introductory mission. A lot of really good GSF pilots don't even bother subbing, because there's simply no need to. Yes, they don't gain req as fast as subs but they certainly don't lack in ship choice.

 

Just because it's not needed doesn't mean it's not usefull.

 

Both in ground PvP and PvE, I can transfer rewards between characters for free, why do I have to spend CC to transfer req I got on one ship to use it on another ship on the same character and can't do it at all between characters ? If the goal atm is to get more casual players, asking to pay CC to transfer requisition we already earned is beyond stupid.

 

Being an altaholic and despite having played thousands GSF matches, I only mastered 2 ships. I really like GSF but it needs some changes. The difference between a stock ship and an optimized one is huge, mechanics knowledge makes a huge difference between veterans and new players.

It would need cross-server to stop putting together/against people that end matches with 95% miss and less than 5k damage and people with fully optimized ships but I doubt it will ever happen so at least make a better tutorial, make it not skipable for players accounts with 0 GSF match and less grindy (like increasing requisition for the 100 first matches in a legacy).

 

Of course, new maps, a ships balance pass, new modes... would be great too.

[Greezt]

If there is one part of the game I am against them putting anymore resources towards, it's GSF. It has no value added. Yes, a few people like it, but it is such a small minority that is pretty much insignificant, and it has near zero growth potential. It's a game within a game, that has insane amount of rules (like playing all 8 classes!) to be learned from ground up and it has absolutely nothing to do with the rest of the game. Why they sank all the resources to create it in the first place is mind-boggling. Swoop races would have had more relevance....

 

Doing anything for GSF is throwing good money after bad.

 

It has just as much relevance as ground PvP, and if I may say so, it causes no conflict between PvP and PvE. The learning curve is hard, but less so than PvP (you need to learn 4 ship types, and not 8 ACs before counting all the subclasses).

 

"Throwing good money after bad"? Really? I get that some people don't like it (though I always find it funny that PvP'ers hate it, what with all the FoTM facerolling guilds), but it's pretty far-fetched to say that the game is plain bad. It's more balanced than PvP, F2P can play it as well, and it has a much less toxic community.

 

As a last question, why would it hurt you that we got attention? Do you feel it would detract from all the "attention" PvP is getting?

[Swordy]

I don't like GSF because I'm **** at it and don't understand how to play the game.

 

If most were honest they'd probably come up with the same reason.

[PorsaLindahl]

I used to be an avid GSF'er (only missing 3 achievements). But with all of the bugs and some of the idiocy I came across in it, I've all but given up on it. I've played 2 matches in about the last 8 months. And until they address a lot of the issues with it, I, for one, won't be doing it.

[MDVZ]

Right. That's what I'm saying. The current controls would need to be nerfed if they added flight stick support, and nerfing the current controls just so some players could compete with flight sticks would kill GSF. Unless there are, somehow, tons of players who are just waiting for stick support before jumping into GSF.

 

Exactly. Which there aren't.

 

Using star citizen as a reference again, even there the population is overwhelmingly KB&M, and that actually is a flight sim (give or take) at its core. GSF is fundamentally a twitch shooter in space ships.

 

In SC as here, people that like stick are loud (and entitled to their view) and pose an argument that could, as you say, kill the game if they get their way - tailor it to the 1% of people that have a stick and can use it, and you alienate the 99% that don't or can't.

 

Star citizen appears to have found some success in appealing to everyone, but it's taken a very large allocation of time and effort that will just never happen with GSF. It's not realistic to think that the control scheme would be changed.

 

Anyone that wants to see GSF supported really needs to be realistic and pragmatic about it, while understanding that unless Bioware think doing it will make them money, they absolutely will not in a million years do it.

Edited January 17, 2016 by MDVZ

[Stradlin]

Exactly. Which there aren't.

 

Using star citizen as a reference again, even there the population is overwhelmingly KB&M, and that actually is a flight sim (give or take) at its core. GSF is fundamentally a twitch shooter in space ships.

 

In SC as here, people that like stick are loud (and entitled to their view) and pose an argument that could, as you say, kill the game if they get their way - tailor it to the 1% of people that have a stick and can use it, and you alienate the 99% that don't or can't.

 

Star citizen appears to have found some success in appealing to everyone, but it's taken a very large allocation of time and effort that will just never happen with GSF. It's not realistic to think that the control scheme would be changed.

 

Anyone that wants to see GSF supported really needs to be realistic and pragmatic about it, while understanding that unless Bioware think doing it will make them money, they absolutely will not in a million years do it.

 

One thing very present in SC last time I tried it/stalked it's forums was this tribe of utterly disillusioned HOTAS owners,each busy trolling one another over how much it sucks that they all are actually much more accurate&lethal with mouse, than with their epic 500 bux Thrustmaster+HOTAS combo.

 

If you wanna argue it all from POV of immersion, then I totally get it. I mean, if you wanna hold hockey stick while playing NHL, a plastic gun while doing FPS, legit-feeling Joystick in flight sims, knock yourself out! it makes sense some in my books. Notion that mouse would somehow be a by-default inferior control solution for an arcade " space sim" in any other dimension than immersion is kinda flawed.

 

Actual flight sims, where you need to operate along couple of additional axis makes another matter.

....and even there, waters are pretty muddy. Elite: Dangerous is prolly about as SIM as anyone is likely to get in a setting involving FTL space lasors pew. Yet, there is increasing amount of people who make a pretty compelling case for KB+M even for Elite.

 

 

It is utterly useless to have the same tired argument about controls in every GSF thread. Current engine and control solutions work great. It is questionable if anyone ever wants to build something requiring a pad in PC environment. Idea that you begin expecting your MMO players to have an actual, proper Joystick plugged in is pretty far out there.

 

What is everyone's favorite ship? I dig T1 strike!

Edited January 17, 2016 by Stradlin

[ekwalizer]

You didn't answer the question. If they implemented joy stick compatibility would you play even though you would be at a disadvantage?

 

I would be a lot more inclined to play it, yes, even if that came at a personal disadvantage.

[ekwalizer]

It has just as much relevance as ground PvP, and if I may say so, it causes no conflict between PvP and PvE. The learning curve is hard, but less so than PvP (you need to learn 4 ship types, and not 8 ACs before counting all the subclasses).

 

"Throwing good money after bad"? Really? I get that some people don't like it (though I always find it funny that PvP'ers hate it, what with all the FoTM facerolling guilds), but it's pretty far-fetched to say that the game is plain bad. It's more balanced than PvP, F2P can play it as well, and it has a much less toxic community.

 

As a last question, why would it hurt you that we got attention? Do you feel it would detract from all the "attention" PvP is getting?

 

I don't participate in GSF, but I agree with this entirely. It is a valid mini-game that many people find entertaining, challenging and fun. It should be supported just like everything else. ((Even if flight stick support is never added.))

[ekwalizer]

It doesn't matter to some that TOR is a keyboard and mouse based game, if some want a flightstick. Then they DAMN WELL BETTER GET A FLIGHTSTICK!! Or they'll be mad at the devs for not doing so. This isn't a space sim or flight simulator. It's a different game. Force yourself to adapt.

 

No. I choose instead to not participate in it.