adormitul Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Resist? Vitiate never tries to take control of you in KOFTE (Aside from the Arcaan fight where you've already let him in before). And the JK was much less experienced when he was taken over, though the fact that it just took a force ghost telling him ''You're being controlled'' to snap out of it makes me think it wasn't that much of a strong hold You know I think the JK was more brainwashed not directly controlled as those on Ziost and Kyra who actually was the only person that we know of who resisted direct control from the emperor. The JK was mostly brainwashed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 You know I think the JK was more brainwashed not directly controlled as those on Ziost and Kyra who actually was the only person that we know of who resisted direct control from the emperor. The JK was mostly brainwashed. Indeed it was more of a brainwash than direct control. Kira didn't resist the Emperor alone, she instinctively built a Wall of Light with the HoT, thus permanently banning Vitiate out of her mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Indeed it was more of a brainwash than direct control. Kira didn't resist the Emperor alone, she instinctively built a Wall of Light with the HoT, thus permanently banning Vitiate out of her mind. Well yeah who made the wall of light. Do you remember on Ziost that a Jedi Master was not able to do that. On short for now she is the only one who managed to resist control from the emperor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 You know who is a battlemaster well Kyle Katarn was one and Mace Windu another one. Maci windu was not the battlemaster of the jedi order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adormitul Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Maci windu was not the battlemaster of the jedi order. Yeah you are right it was a jedi master called Cin Drallig I guess that the jobs goes to the bloke that has the patience to teach not the one who has the knowledge to teach. Knowledge of all lightsaber forms my *** he went down in seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The problem is this: non-force sensitives can train and be better than many force sensitives. Pre Vizsla hold his own against Maul, mandalorians always fought Jedi, but eventually they lose. Why? Because the best of the best non-force sensitives ALWAYS get defeated by the best of the best force-sensitives. But that's the thing! They didn't die! They weren't defeated! They came out on top of all the Force users that have gone against them! That's what makes them so unique and interesting to Valkorian! With any other person, yes, a Jedi or Sith would have killed them. But these guys are different. They survive and thrive. That's why I don't think it's weird for Valkorian to take an interest in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 But that's the thing! They didn't die! They weren't defeated! They came out on top of all the Force users that have gone against them! That's what makes them so unique and interesting to Valkorian! With any other person, yes, a Jedi or Sith would have killed them. But these guys are different. They survive and thrive. That's why I don't think it's weird for Valkorian to take an interest in them. I guess I see your point and I'll take that as a very weak answer. Still don't think KOTFE is designed for non-force sensitives, but this is the most you'll convince me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I guess I see your point and I'll take that as a very weak answer. Still don't think KOTFE is designed for non-force sensitives, but this is the most you'll convince me I'll take it, even if you did think my answer was weak. Besides, who wouldn't be interested in my smuggler, what with her winning personality and all that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I'll take it, even if you did think my answer was weak. Besides, who wouldn't be interested in my smuggler, what with her winning personality and all that? "I don't like to brag, but... Who am I kidding? I LOVE to brag!" I love smugglers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirandel Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) But that's the thing! They didn't die! They weren't defeated! They came out on top of all the Force users that have gone against them! That's what makes them so unique and interesting to Valkorian! With any other person, yes, a Jedi or Sith would have killed them. But these guys are different. They survive and thrive. That's why I don't think it's weird for Valkorian to take an interest in them. Sorry, can not just let it pass So, you are saying, our PCs are the FIRST in MILLENNIA who "survive and thrive"? And until now there were not a single interesting soul in the whole galaxy?! So, poor Vitiate was dying of boredom and only now, when our PC came to age, found that one interesting person?! Not to mention part about "you, like me, is changing galaxy" - a perfect description of smuggler, sure Edited December 28, 2015 by Mirandel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithKoriandr Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I still do not get how all of them managed to resist Vitiate. IA I get it that person has lets say a ****** barrier that can stop people from controlling him, BH has a iron will but what about the smugler and the trooper they did not show any feats that could imply their strong willed or immune. Also does that mean that JK had a weaker will then the other PC's before he got rid of the emperors control thanks to you know who? Smuggler resisted a force persuade in their own story, just like Hunter did. Smuggler just didn't get the memorable line, like the Hunter did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Sorry, can not just let it pass So, you are saying, our PCs are the FIRST in MILLENNIA who "survive and thrive"? And until now there were not a single interesting soul in the whole galaxy?! So, poor Vitiate was dying of boredom and only now, when our PC came to age, found that one interesting person?! Not to mention part about "you, like me, is changing galaxy" - a perfect description of smuggler, sure No... That's not what I'm saying. My point was that it's not that weird for Valkorian to take an interest in these people, force using or not, because they've accomplished great things, and he didn't expect them to. That was my point. I wasn't trying to insinuate that no one else had ever accomplished these feats before, just that it's not that common and these might be the only ones in recent history to do so. That's all I was trying to say. And another thing- why couldn't a smuggler manage to change the galaxy? Other than not being a Jedi/Sith, what other handicaps do they have? The smuggler is intelligent, cunning, and is an excellent shot. People with humble beginnings have changed the world for the better numerous times in history. I don't see what's so weird about that. Edited December 28, 2015 by Yermog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 No... That's not what I'm saying. My point was that it's not that weird for Valkorian to take an interest in these people, force using or not, because they've accomplished great things, and he didn't expect them to. That was my point. I wasn't trying to insinuate that no one else had ever accomplished these feats before, just that it's not that common and these might be the only ones in recent history to do so. That's all I was trying to say. And another thing- why couldn't a smuggler manage to change the galaxy? Other than not being a Jedi/Sith, what other handicaps do they have? The smuggler is intelligent, cunning, and is an excellent shot. People with humble beginnings have changed the world for the better numerous times in history. I don't see what's so weird about that. Can you start KOFTE when you get to lvl 60 without doing anything else other than class stories? Because if you can't, story-wise each class has at least participated in the events in SoR. If you can, I can see that the story of the smuggler (Soley the story without any of the side quests, FP's, OPS or Expansions) couldn't really be seen as affecting the galaxy THAT much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Can you start KOFTE when you get to lvl 60 without doing anything else other than class stories? Because if you can't, story-wise each class has at least participated in the events in SoR. If you can, I can see that the story of the smuggler (Soley the story without any of the side quests, FP's, OPS or Expansions) couldn't really be seen as affecting the galaxy THAT much. But couldn't the same be said for all of the classes? For example, the Sith Inquisitor, a powerful force user, becomes a member of the Dark Council at the end of that story arc. But, it could be argued that just because s/he became a Council member, it doesn't mean that they changed history. On terms of what the Inquisitor and the Smuggler control at the end, they almost come up even. The Inquisitor only controls one aspect of the Empire, and the Smuggler is the unofficial ruler of the pirate armada and criminal underground. Each of the classes only really changes the galaxy in the later chapters, after the main storyline. Before then, they have power and respect, but don't do much changing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fovzwk Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Can you start KOFTE when you get to lvl 60 without doing anything else other than class stories? Because if you can't, story-wise each class has at least participated in the events in SoR. If you can, I can see that the story of the smuggler (Soley the story without any of the side quests, FP's, OPS or Expansions) couldn't really be seen as affecting the galaxy THAT much. I think you can. But then again it's not really supported lorewise. The game most likely will assume that you did the entire SoR and Ziost plot anyways because otherwise none of KotFE would make any sense. As in the very first chapter couldn't even happen then. Edited December 28, 2015 by fovzwk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 I think you can. But then again it's not really supported lorewise. The game most likely will assume that you did the entire SoR and Ziost plot anyways because otherwise none of KotFE would make any sense. As in the very first chapter couldn't even happen then. Oh, I thought he was asking if the non-force users accomplished as much in the expansions, not if they did anything. Yeah, if you created an insta-60, then their background is the same as a PC played from level 1. The only difference is that your alignment is determined by your class affiliation (Republic characters are all spoken to like they were LS and Imperials are spoken to like they were DS) and you don't have a romance carried over from before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Oh, I thought he was asking if the non-force users accomplished as much in the expansions, not if they did anything. Yeah, if you created an insta-60, then their background is the same as a PC played from level 1. The only difference is that your alignment is determined by your class affiliation (Republic characters are all spoken to like they were LS and Imperials are spoken to like they were DS) and you don't have a romance carried over from before. No, I mean if you leveled up to 60 and only did the class story, could you still do KOFTE? Because for stories like the Smuggler, I can't really Vitiate taking an interest unless the character went through content like SOR or corrella's story. It's nothing to do with their skill, but when he talks about them having an effect on the galaxy, it doesn't really make much sense from JUST the class story for some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yermog Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) No, I mean if you leveled up to 60 and only did the class story, could you still do KOFTE? Because for stories like the Smuggler, I can't really Vitiate taking an interest unless the character went through content like SOR or corrella's story. It's nothing to do with their skill, but when he talks about them having an effect on the galaxy, it doesn't really make much sense from JUST the class story for some The only person who you could say really had an impact on the galaxy might be the Jedi Knight, who temporarily got rid of Vitiate when s/he killed his mortal vessel. And I do mean very temporarily- in the Sith Warrior line, you find him quickly after his "defeat" and help him regain his former strength. And yes, you could still do KOTFE, because for KOTFE, no matter how much extra side content you did, only the main class story matters. That goes for all classes. If you leveled up some characters during the massive XP boost a few months back like I did, you see that doing side missions has practically no impact on the rest of the story, no matter the class. No one ever refers to Mr. So-and-so who you rescued in Chapter Two, they only talk about you taking down your final enemy, or someone else you took out along the way in the main storyline. Edited December 28, 2015 by Yermog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Oh, I thought he was asking if the non-force users accomplished as much in the expansions, not if they did anything. Yeah, if you created an insta-60, then their background is the same as a PC played from level 1. The only difference is that your alignment is determined by your class affiliation (Republic characters are all spoken to like they were LS and Imperials are spoken to like they were DS) and you don't have a romance carried over from before. Actually I heard insta-60 inqs are called Darth Imperius which I dont understand. (Mine is Imperius too) I think Nox would make sense if they assume all imps are DS, even Occlus would make more sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mubrak Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) The only person who you could say really had an impact on the galaxy might be the Jedi Knight, who temporarily got rid of Vitiate when s/he killed his mortal vessel. And I do mean very temporarily- in the Sith Warrior line, you find him quickly after his "defeat" and help him regain his former strength. Actually the Sith Warrior frees Vitiate first, and the Jedi Knight kills the new Voice Vitiate slipped into. Baras' trap was a better idea, but well, guess the JK gets extra points for trying. Who really had an impact on the galaxy, albeit unintended and indirectly, was the Bounty Hunter. With Sareesh not in power, or only after a lengthy regular election campaign, things may have turned out different after Corellia. A weak indecisive republic might have faced an empire that Malgus never had a chance to subvert, an empire that would have been still useful for Vitiate, and still had the respect of the Dread Masters. Edited December 28, 2015 by Mubrak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jauvtus Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Actually the Sith Warrior frees Vitiate first, and the Jedi Knight kills the new Voice Vitiate slipped into. Baras' trap was a better idea, but well, guess the JK gets extra points for trying. Who really had an impact on the galaxy, albeit unintended and indirectly, was the Bounty Hunter. With Sareesh not in power, or only after a lengthy regular election campaign, things may have turned out different after Corellia. A weak indecisive republic might have faced an empire that Malgus never had a chance to subvert, an empire that would have been still useful for Vitiate, and still had the respect of the Dread Masters. The Dread Masters NEVER respected the Empire, only Vitiate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fovzwk Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 No, I mean if you leveled up to 60 and only did the class story, could you still do KOFTE? Because for stories like the Smuggler, I can't really Vitiate taking an interest unless the character went through content like SOR or corrella's story. It's nothing to do with their skill, but when he talks about them having an effect on the galaxy, it doesn't really make much sense from JUST the class story for some As said, if you start KotFE but don't do SoR and Ziost before that the game just assumes you did them anyways because that's the only way the plot can actuallly happen. If the game wouldn't automaticallly assume that you did SOR and Ziost anyways Vitiates interest in non-force sensitive PCs would be the least grave plothole. For once Vitiate wouldn't even be around in the First place. The joint effort of Republic in Chapter I would never be happening as they have no reason to do it. And Lana wouldn't even know you and therefore have no reson to rescue you in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saelinne Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) First, it was Senya that tossed your character back, probably taking them completely by surprise since they weren't expecting that from an ally and she wasn't really radiating hostile intent towards the Outlander. She is Vaylin's mother after all and has a ton of emotional baggage there. Enough that she couldn't kill Vaylin even after beating her into submission. Personally, I'm not entirely certain she didn't toss the Outlander out of the way at least partially because she knew they would win that fight and might not be as hesitant to kill as she proved to be. In terms of combat capability, it's been repeatedly shown throughout the stories that the non-Force Sensitive classes really formidable enough to be peers of the Jedi and Sith ones. This is a period of time where both the Republic and Empire are probably publishing entire libraries of field manuals covering how to kill Force Users and mass-producing equipment that might have been more exotic than practical in Star Wars settings where there are only two known Sith in the galaxy and a Jedi Master hiding out on Dagobah. Or equipment that just wasn't thought of by the writers at the time. In terms of story...yeah, the Emperor's interest probably does fit some classes better than others. Still, I think the Ziost storyline does provide a justification for all classes to ultimately have it. Regardless Faction or class, your character does wind up temporarily thwarting the Emperor when he is in fully on planet eater mode with a side helping of spontaneous immortal monster powers to boot. He even says at the end that he doesn't even really want to kill you except maybe after the rest of the galaxy dies just because you make his life that much more interesting. Still, for someone like the Smuggler or Bounty Hunter who, while incredibly powerful, did still spend most of their respective story do what other people wanted them to do for money, Valkorion's rhetoric about Reaching Your Full Potential and Throwing Off the Chains of the Past may be being thrown about more pointedly than some of the other classes ...damn I wanted to point out that it was Senya that pushes our PC not Vaylin...oh well:) ( is youtube video with the fight I forgot to place (look for after minute 4)) Anyway I completely agree with you on all but have to wonder at your theory about why Senya was able to push our force users (especially JC or SI)....if all it takes for a Sith/Jedi to be taken by surprise is lack of intend to harm...well...isn't that a too big weakness to not be exploited already? As far as I remember we don't hear about Sith/Jedi getting killed by skilled snipers left and right:D jauvtus the JK never defeated the emperor. He/she defeated his Voice (something the SW did earlier than them) and maybe the Emperor miscalculated and almost?/died because his Voices were being defeated so fast or something... SithKoriandr although my SI is my baby and I love her...and try not to cheat on her too much with alts....I fully believe that our non force users are capable of beating even such strong force users (ugh I really want to shorten ''force users''...and then my mind insist I just call them ***********...sorry about the language......just not in the same way that our force users might. One of the reasons I hope the devs will stop using so much fighting cutscenes (at least with our PCs) and leave it to our imagination, but that's not for this thread... Edited December 29, 2015 by Saelinne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codedrago Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Anyway I completely agree with you with you on all but have to wonder at your theory about why Senya was able to push our force users (especially JC or SI)....if all it takes for a Sith/Jedi to be taken by surprise is lack of intend to harm...well...isn't that a too big weakness to not be exploited already? As far as I remember we don't hear about Sith/Jedi getting killed by skilled snipers left and right:D Well, if something you're not expecting happens, you'd be surprised. That goes for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirandel Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 (edited) No... That's not what I'm saying. My point was that it's not that weird for Valkorian to take an interest in these people, force using or not, because they've accomplished great things, and he didn't expect them to. Why would he expect anything from them? Why would he know about their existence at all? Let's read his words again: "In all my centuries, you alone have merited my full attention," Does it really feels right to you considering ANY deeds any of our characters ever did? Even without "changing galaxy part"? Now, saying "why a smuggler can not change the fate of the galaxy" in my books is similar to looking at the rock at the wrong place that made someone important to trip over as a source of a big change. In that meaning - sure, smuggler can do it, but applying a power equal to Emperors for sensible changes to whole galaxy - sorry, but no. I am wholeheartedly agree with another of your post: The only person who you could say really had an impact on the galaxy might be the Jedi Knight, who temporarily got rid of Vitiate when s/he killed his mortal vessel. And I do mean very temporarily- in the Sith Warrior line, you find him quickly after his "defeat" and help him regain his former strength. With a small addition of SW who DID freed Emperor's voice and was personally chosen by Emperor\Vitiate as an Emperor's wroth (an immortal position, that fills in a couple of times in millennia) . I'd say it's close enough to accept "merited my full attention" if only without "alone" part. For the rest of the classes it's rubbish. JC is a not-that-simple but just a diplomat in service of the Republic, and SI is in service of his\her-self and nobody else. Still, JC had to deal with Children of Emperor (and get rid of First Son) and SI had a sit in Dark Council and knows everything about spirits. They can be pressed in to the story without too much of a headache. Can not see it for non-force users. The story is written for light-side JK only. They did not even bother with dark choices much (you have to beg Vitiate to use you and he answers the same way he does in the light options, like you are constantly refusing his power). SW is a stretch, JC and SI are even bigger stretch, non-force users are nonsense and total immersion break. Though, from a pov "better illogical no-sense choices than no choices at all" anything works. All the power to imagination. P.S. For the record, I think non-force users story stopped make any sense since SoR (I'd say Makeb was already a stretch). Edited December 29, 2015 by Mirandel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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