*Spoilers* Force Awakens... entertaining but /sigh

[drakensang]

For reasons of symmetry,I would have found it more satisfying, if if we had gotten a girl Vader-wannabe as opposition to the female new hope. Kyla Ren throwing tantrums, attacking innocent consoles, venerating granddad's molten helm and stabbing dad.

[BrianDavion]

 

But I think this movie was intended to be similar, Disney saw what happened with TPM, they had to conquer the fans, and they had immense success, because people who didnt like the movie are really the minority here, and I'm not critiscizing them in any ways, it's just a fact.

.

 

on this I agree. was TFA derivitive? yes, but thatm, IMHO was intended. they where playing it safe, and wanted a movie fans could easily say "THIS IS STAR WARS!"

[Vego_Mohenjo]

I enjoyed the film (even though some douchebag on the fleet saw fit to throw the ultimate spoiler out there), but I thought it did have flaws.

 

First, and most obvious, it's terribly derivative. it's almost note for note the same plot as the first Star Wars film (1977).

 

Second, I don't like most of the villains. Grand Moff babyface is really bad, scowling his way through every line. Andy Serkis is wasted on "supreme leader" Snape... Snope... Snoopy... whatever he's called. Giant obvious cgi is not intimidating or impressive at all... and where did this character come from? The Empire fell, if there was another Sith Lord waiting in the wings, it would have been evident.

 

We needed to see some of what happened when the Emperor was killed. Realistically, the Empire wouldn't just disappear or crumble away. There was an enormous infrastructure in place that would ensure its survival. What would happen is that the Regional Governors, who all had "direct control," would all start vying for power. One or more would seek to become the new Emperor. There needed to be some indication of this. Is Snoopy one of these former Governors? Are there other Imperial factions out there?

 

We needed Luke to say or do SOMETHING. Standing there like a statue was a very weak ending. We needed a "Where did you get that?" scene - if for no other reason than explain how anyone was able to recover the lightsaber that FELL INTO THE GAS GIANT ON BESPIN.

 

There were lots of other plot holes and contrivances, of course, but these are the ones that really stood out for me.

 

Of course, there was lots of GOOD, too.

 

I liked Rey. I liked seeing a strong female character that behaved like a female. So often, it's a male part with a female actor, and it doesn't seem to fit. I didn't think Finn measured up as a great character, but he has room to grow.

 

I liked that Han Solo was HAN SOLO. By the end of Jedi, he had lost what made him who he was. He needed to be cocky, edgy. Here, we see some of the Han of old, just older.

 

I LIKED KYLO REN. Why? Because he's a poser, trying to be Vader... and he's NOT. As someone said before, he's not Vader, he's Anakin. What we're seeing here is his journey to BECOMING Vader. To that end, the killing of Han Solo was a necessary story point. It committed Ren to the dark side, and that was something we needed to see. Kylo Ren was (and is) a far more complex, tormented villain than any we've had in Star Wars before, and I think the film benefitted from that.

 

I may have more on a second viewing.

[BrianDavion]

if there was another Sith Lord waiting in the wings, it would have been evident.

 

the most likely answer has been provided by SW rebels

[Falensawino]

another angsty adolescent in the Skywalker lineage.

 

there's a whole meme about him looking like a trench coat mafia, wanna be goth sans eyeliner on Imgur

 

another camp think his face reminds them of JP from Grandma's Boy

"Adios, turd nuggets."

http://imgur.com/gallery/V8Jvc

http://imgur.com/HDwVj44

 

"Please... sit... on... my... faaaace..."

Edited December 24, 2015 by Falensawino

[Vego_Mohenjo]

the most likely answer has been provided by SW rebels

 

Unfortunately, they don't get credit for anything that isn't IN the film.

[DarknessInLight]

I thought The Force Awakens was a great film. Having said that, I felt that it was a horrible Star Wars film. Here are a list of issues I had with this film:

 

1. It didn't feel like Star Wars. Call me crazy, but from the text crawl at the beginning of the movie until the credits at the end, this film was missing something. Sure, it had Han, Leia, Chewie, etc., it had all the tangibles, it had nostalgia, but it felt like sitting in a familiar place with a good friend, except that friend wasn't there any more.

 

I felt like the Exile in KOTOR 2. I had returned to a galaxy I once knew, but nothing felt right. All six of the previous episodes(yes, even the Prequels) had a magical feeling to them that reminded me of the essence of Star Wars. Many of you know what this feeling is. This film was devoid of that feeling. I can't describe it, but it wasn't there.

 

2. Lack of Originality. The Prequels may not have been perfect, but at least they were original stories. This movie was a rehash of A New Hope with fancier visuals. I hope that this will not turn into the disaster that is the Star Trek reboots. We deserve better.

 

3. Plot points that do not mesh with established canon. This movie feels like a reboot, not a sequel. We are shown a boy who thinks he is Darth Vader's equal, who can stop a blaster bolt in midair, but gets his *** kicked by a total novice in the Jedi arts? Kylo Ren should have crushed Rey instantly with the Force alone given his prowess throughout the film. You can't tell me that she just became instantly strong with the Force when it took Luke 3 years of Jedi training to become strong enough to confront Vader and his Emperor, both of whom are infinitely stronger than Ren. To further back this argument, in the Prequels it took a Padawan almost 15-20 years of their life to attain the rank of Jedi Knight and that was under the proper tutelage of a Jedi Master. Rey has never been trained in the Force/Jedi Arts or she would have known that

 

A. Luke Skywalker was not a myth.

 

B. The Jedi/Sith were real.

 

So, for Rey to just pick up a lightsaber and duel someone as strong as Kylo Ren was in the Force and defeat him soundly is completely absurd, yet it happened. If Padawans are that strong that they can take on trained Dark Jedi and defeat them, then the younglings in the Council chamber should have been able to overpower Darth Vader during Operation Knightfall. The younglings were trained by Yoda himself. See? Something isn't making sense here and this sequel trilogy may have already fallen on its' face.

 

There are more issues, but these are my three main "unforgivables". The Prequels had their flaws, but to me, they were superior in their scope and honored the originals more than this film did, instead of trying to rewrite the lore.

Edited December 28, 2015 by DarknessInLight

[SithKoriandr]

3. Plot points that do not mesh with established canon. This movie feels like a reboot, not a sequel. We are shown a boy who thinks he is Darth Vader's equal, who can stop a blaster bolt in midair, but gets his *** kicked by a total novice in the Jedi arts? Kylo Ren should have crushed Rey instantly with the Force alone given his prowess throughout the film. You can't tell me that she just became instantly strong with the Force when it took Luke 3 years of Jedi training to become strong enough to confront Vader and his Emperor, both of whom are infinitely stronger than Ren. To further back this argument, in the Prequels it took a Padawan almost 15-20 years of their life to attain the rank of Jedi Knight and that was under the proper tutelage of a Jedi Master. Rey has never been trained in the Force/Jedi Arts or she would have known that

 

A. Luke Skywalker was not a myth.

 

B. The Jedi/Sith were real.

 

So, for Rey to just pick up a lightsaber and duel someone as strong as Kylo Ren was in the Force and defeat him soundly is completely absurd, yet it happened. If Padawans are that strong that they can take on trained Dark Jedi and defeat them, then the younglings in the Council chamber should have been able to overpower Darth Vader during Operation Knightfall. The younglings were trained by Yoda himself. See? Something isn't making sense here and this sequel trilogy may have already fallen on its' face.

 

There are more issues, but these are my three main "unforgivables". The Prequels had their flaws, but to me, they were superior in their scope and honored the originals more than this film did, instead of trying to rewrite the lore.

 

Anakin, totally untrained, was powerful enough in the force to do what no other human could do and pilot a pod racer.

[DarknessInLight]

Anakin, totally untrained, was powerful enough in the force to do what no other human could do and pilot a pod racer.

 

You're right, a human flying a pod racer required the Force.

 

Qui-Gon: You must have Jedi reflexes if you race Pods.

 

Dueling a Force Sensitive with a Lightsaber requires training in the Jedi arts. Remember that Luke was no match for Vader on Bespin. Also remember that Anakin's Midichlorian count was over 20,000. Not even Master Yoda had a count that high. He was NOT your typical Force Sensitive. I am curious, though, as to what Darth Sidious' midichlorian count would have been had he been tested.

Edited December 28, 2015 by DarknessInLight

[Vego_Mohenjo]

I'm not sure you're helping your argument by mentioning "midichlorians."

 

That said, I do see your point. If Kylo Ren was as skilled and powerful as he seems to be making out, then he should have easily handled Rey.

 

However, there were some other things at work.

 

First, we don't KNOW how strong Kylo Ren is. Sure, he stopped a blaster bolt in midair, but how skilled with a saber is he? He abandoned Luke's training, so maybe he didn't get much actual combat training.

 

Second, even if we grant the above, he's clearly pretty strong with the Force. Why wouldn't he use THAT to destroy her? My thinking is that he was using his power with the Force for something else... perhaps holding his guts together after taking a laser crossbow bolt.

 

Third, he doubts himself. That's part of his arc. Perhaps he's doing a Thanos, and setting himself up unconsciously.

 

I think all three of these ideas a plausible explanations. You're welcome to disagree, of course.

[DarknessInLight]

I'm not sure you're helping your argument by mentioning "midichlorians."

 

The Prequels are canon, therefore so are the Midichlorians.

[Vego_Mohenjo]

The Prequels are canon, therefore so are the Midichlorians.

 

Oh I know, it's just such a reviled point most people just ignore it.

[BrianDavion]

Unfortunately, they don't get credit for anything that isn't IN the film.

 

yeah see, that additude isn't the one Disney has. first of all expect to wait till the 2nd or third movie to be out right told who Snoke is (remember it took us until ROTJ to know the emperor was a dark side user of great power, and it took us till the prequals to learn just HOW powerful he was) but Disney also wants to us buy "supporting products" to learn the answers to questions. Disney's basicly given us the EU was always claimed to have wanted.

[AztecSoul]

I thought The Force Awakens was a great film. Having said that, I felt that it was a horrible Star Wars film. Here are a list of issues I had with this film:

 

1. It didn't feel like Star Wars. Call me crazy, but from the text crawl at the beginning of the movie until the credits at the end, this film was missing something. Sure, it had Han, Leia, Chewie, etc., it had all the tangibles, it had nostalgia, but it felt like sitting in a familiar place with a good friend, except that friend wasn't there any more.

 

I felt like the Exile in KOTOR 2. I had returned to a galaxy I once knew, but nothing felt right. All six of the previous episodes(yes, even the Prequels) had a magical feeling to them that reminded me of the essence of Star Wars. Many of you know what this feeling is. This film was devoid of that feeling. I can't describe it, but it wasn't there.

 

2. Lack of Originality. The Prequels may not have been perfect, but at least they were original stories. This movie was a rehash of A New Hope with fancier visuals. I hope that this will not turn into the disaster that is the Star Trek reboots. We deserve better.

 

3. Plot points that do not mesh with established canon. This movie feels like a reboot, not a sequel. We are shown a boy who thinks he is Darth Vader's equal, who can stop a blaster bolt in midair, but gets his *** kicked by a total novice in the Jedi arts? Kylo Ren should have crushed Rey instantly with the Force alone given his prowess throughout the film. You can't tell me that she just became instantly strong with the Force when it took Luke 3 years of Jedi training to become strong enough to confront Vader and his Emperor, both of whom are infinitely stronger than Ren. To further back this argument, in the Prequels it took a Padawan almost 15-20 years of their life to attain the rank of Jedi Knight and that was under the proper tutelage of a Jedi Master. Rey has never been trained in the Force/Jedi Arts or she would have known that

 

A. Luke Skywalker was not a myth.

 

B. The Jedi/Sith were real.

 

So, for Rey to just pick up a lightsaber and duel someone as strong as Kylo Ren was in the Force and defeat him soundly is completely absurd, yet it happened. If Padawans are that strong that they can take on trained Dark Jedi and defeat them, then the younglings in the Council chamber should have been able to overpower Darth Vader during Operation Knightfall. The younglings were trained by Yoda himself. See? Something isn't making sense here and this sequel trilogy may have already fallen on its' face.

 

There are more issues, but these are my three main "unforgivables". The Prequels had their flaws, but to me, they were superior in their scope and honored the originals more than this film did, instead of trying to rewrite the lore.

 

Sorry to knit-pick, but for the sake of Star Wars discussion (I just saw the film several days ago), I'll offer my take on point 3...

 

Kylo's injury prior to the duel should be taken into account, as it may have been a detriment to his combat ability (in his handling of lightsaber combat). Personally, I thought it did, even though it seemed that he was trying to draw power through pain during the fight with Finn, to compensate. Aside from that, my interpretation is this... Since Kylo ultimately tried to convince Rey to learn the ways of the force from him, I don't believe he actually wanted to outright kill her from the beginning at all, rather subdue this raw talent for a potential ally to his side.

 

Let's also not forget that Rey demonstrated prior familiarity with melee combat on Jakku, beating odds that put her at a serious disadvantage. Her 'attunement' to the force magnified this skill, one could argue. Faced with this kind of opposition, I saw Kylo overwhelmed with surprise at the 180° shift at the end, more than anything. If his intent was truly to kill Rey, I believe he would have done so before her moment of clarity with the force, with only his injury slowing him down.

 

As for points 2 and 3, I can't fully agree or disagree. We have to remember that episode 4 came out nearly 40 years ago. Since then, the younger generation (myself included) has been handed re-edited versions of the original trilogy throughout recent years, never having seen the original version of the original. Episode 7 feels like a final telling of the original plot points, but with the advantage of being 'up-to-date' with superb visuals and a cast that is brilliantly diverse and skilled to back it up. I'm hopeful that the subsequent episodes will diverge from drawing close parallels with the original trilogy counterparts. if not...

 

The prequels are... special ... After seeing the most recent 'edition' of the original trilogy on VHS prior, I saw episode 1 at the movies at around what I assume to be a young target age? Even then, I cringed at the moments that seemed to be childish in antics and feel. By the end of episode 3, I felt that the entire approach could have, and should have been done better. I did not buy the portrayal of Anakin's romance with Padme, nor his subsequent turn to the dark side at all. Here's to being optimistic that episodes 8 & 9 be unique with believable story arcs...

[SithKoriandr]

The prequels are... special ... After seeing the most recent 'edition' of the original trilogy on VHS prior, I saw episode 1 at the movies at around what I assume to be a young target age? Even then, I cringed at the moments that seemed to be childish in antics and feel. By the end of episode 3, I felt that the entire approach could have, and should have been done better. I did not buy the portrayal of Anakin's romance with Padme, nor his subsequent turn to the dark side at all. Here's to being optimistic that episodes 8 & 9 be unique with believable story arcs...

 

I think a lot of that has to do with the over all writing. Jar Jar, for instance, was meant to appeal to the kids for sure, and maybe he did, but I think George's mistake there, was to think a character meant to appeal to kids couldn't be made to appeal to adults too. While I don't have the hate for Jar Jar as others do (not my favorite either mind you, just not the hate) I don't think George was thinking long term when it came to Jar Jar and only instant child appeal and toy sales.

 

Not to mention, while it may have just been me for sure, I felt calling the children, younglings, was cringe worthy and their way to make up a word for children in this galaxy far far away

[DarknessInLight]

Sorry to knit-pick, but for the sake of Star Wars discussion (I just saw the film several days ago), I'll offer my take on point 3...

 

Kylo's injury prior to the duel should be taken into account, as it may have been a detriment to his combat ability (in his handling of lightsaber combat). Personally, I thought it did, even though it seemed that he was trying to draw power through pain during the fight with Finn, to compensate. Aside from that, my interpretation is this... Since Kylo ultimately tried to convince Rey to learn the ways of the force from him, I don't believe he actually wanted to outright kill her from the beginning at all, rather subdue this raw talent for a potential ally to his side.

 

Let's also not forget that Rey demonstrated prior familiarity with melee combat on Jakku, beating odds that put her at a serious disadvantage. Her 'attunement' to the force magnified this skill, one could argue. Faced with this kind of opposition, I saw Kylo overwhelmed with surprise at the 180° shift at the end, more than anything. If his intent was truly to kill Rey, I believe he would have done so before her moment of clarity with the force, with only his injury slowing him down.

 

If we're gonna take Kylo Ren's injury into account, that it somehow weakened him to the point where he couldn't fight what amounts to a novice in the Jedi Saber Arts, then I'm calling bulls*** on it and there is canonized evidence to suggest otherwise. Saying that she was able to beat those goons on Jakku with a metal staff isn't the same thing as fighting a trained, yet likely amateur(I will give you the point on Kylo Ren being partially trained) Force User armed with a lightsaber. You're comparing Apples and Oranges here. Case in point: Obi Wan and Anakin fighting General Grievous' Magnaguards armed with energy staffs in Revenge of the Sith. Those droids were programmed to use those staffs expertly and viciously and yet Kenobi is able to defeat them with relative ease, as is Skywalker. Now, droids vs. sentients may not be a solid argument, but you have to think that an average person would have been killed by those Magnaguards in a similar situation.

 

When Luke was dueling Vader on Cloud City in Empire, he got in a lucky, glancing blow on Vader's shoulder, one that was powerful enough to make the Lord of the Sith scream in pain. Vader then went berserk and removed Skywalker's saber hand. See what I mean? I can't buy the bowcaster bolt to the ribs "cop-out" for why Rey, an untrained user in lightsaber combat, can just suddenly defeat Kylo Ren, even if wounded, because of the Bespin duel between Father and Son. In Attack of the Clones, it is hinted through the dialogue between Obi Wan and Anakin that saber technique and skill is an important part of wielding a lightsaber, so we can infer that Jedi are trained in use of their sabers.

 

Even Finn had some rudimentary saber training, possibly a part of his "conditioning" within the First Order.

Rey's combat with the saber was clumsy. You can see it in the film. She is lunging and swinging and then dodging and running, whereas Finn stood his ground and actually dueled Kylo Ren, until Ren was hit in the shoulder. He then gave himself fully over to the Dark Side and ended that fight quickly. Speaking of which, there is only one possible way that Rey could have suddenly found the strength she needed to crush him the way she did: She must have embraced the Dark Side of the Force. It explains her sudden strength and brute force to defeat Ren. Watch her after she knocked him down. The look on her face. The Dark Side was there. In the novel I believe she even hears voices telling her to finish him quickly. We all know what happens when someone starts down the Dark Path.....

Edited June 10, 2016 by DarknessInLight

[Wolfninjajedi]

Kylo was toying with Finn and didn't want to kill Rey, but didn't want to given he wanted to teach her. Plus neither really did well against Kylo, Rey was on the backfoot till near the end and Kylo pretty much stomped Finn into the ground before just ending the fight after he got struck.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiByCZ6313U

 

So even with the emotional turmoil of killing his father and the crossbow bolt wound which was sending grown armored troopers flying, he pretty much dominated them both up even without trying.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Wolfninjajedi

[psandak]

Speaking of which, there is only one possible way that Rey could have suddenly found the strength she needed to crush him the way she did: She must have embraced the Dark Side of the Force. It explains her sudden strength and brute force to defeat Ren. Watch her after she knocked him down. The look on her face. The Dark Side was there. In the novel I believe she even hears voices telling her to finish him quickly. We all know what happens when someone starts down the Dark Path.....

 

On that note, let's go back to TPM. Obi Wan loses his master and goes a little nuts fighting Maul very aggressively. Did he slip to the dark side too? Even if he did...Yoda's statement to Luke in ESB - IMO - was touched with hyperbole. He was trying to make a point. Anger and Fear and Hate CAN lead to the Dark Side, but it does not HAVE to.

 

That being said, it could be said that all of the DS problems Luke had to deal with in the EU were because he did slip to the dark side on more than one occasion...that in fact the Dark Side did "dominate his destiny," albeit in a different way than Yoda proclaimed it would; Luke was not consumed by the Dark Side like his father but people and events around him were.

[Pietrastor]

All the throwback/nostalgia references were unnecessary. The new cast, aided by the old favourites is more than strong enough to carry any story on their own. It is something the prequels didn't have (extremly weak Christensen-Anakin and Portman-Padme). The movie didn't need yet another Death Star and other references.

 

Hopefully now that JJ and Disney got it out of their system, Episode 8 can trully stand on its own

Edited July 6, 2016 by Pietrastor

[xdjinn]

Just saw the movie aswell, I understand what you mean though I'm viewing it in a different light.

I liked the movie. To me Kylo Ren is indeed not really a great villain we probably all expected, but to me he seems more like a lost boy who fell victim to the dark side. Thats not necessarily a bad thing. If I'm not mistaken there are only about 30 years between this movie and the previous one? So he's definitely young.

They might have been aiming for a more tragic story for him with a background instead of just go " okay here's a new truely evil bad villain for you guys ".

 

Who knows what lies ahead in his future.

 

Oh you naughty little darkside, making sweet boys into victims....

[kirorx]

Kylo looks nothing. Like han and leia's son. Han may want a paternity test performed. I think the actor did fine with the character, but I would of liked a more "smug" character that looked at least believable as the son of Han Solo.

[kirorx]

I also agree. It was entertaining and gave a lot of fan service, but it was also bad some "meh" to it.

 

Aside from kylo looking for someone elses kid, here are my negatives

 

1: Planet Death Star

 

2: what is the resistance and what happened to the galaxy after ROTJ?

 

3: R2D2 was asleep and waiting for a map to Luke? Lame imo

 

4: Luke pulled a yoda and went into exile? Argh

 

--------

 

The movie was still entertaining and a lot of fun. It is still a good movie and better than all the prequels IMO

[t-darko]

There's a great misconception here on who "owns" the story of Star Wars. Copyright set aside, the void created between '83 and '99 somehow created the illusion that we the fans "owned" the story, but that was never the case, as GL showed us time and time again with his extended and added versions of the OT and finally with the PT and TCW.

 

With the reset of Canon you as a fan have 2 choices really, come along for the ride and all the fun that it's entails, or forever get sidelined and over time be branded an old whining visionless has been fan that always will cry of the better times that was before; you know just like old folks use to do!!

 

A good story never begins with telling you all its twist and turns,; Now either you got the patients to come along for the ride and do the usual fan speculation thing or you demand, much like a 3 year old, to get it all, here and now. If the fact that TFA was going to be a reboot of the franchise, well, that only tells us what level of fandom you currently possess, because; It was never a secret, the information was always out there for anyone to google!!

 

Of course anyone is allowed an opinion, BUT, if someone was surprised, well, then its time to level up in fandom.

Edited July 15, 2016 by t-darko

[Darthflowmotion]

the whole movie was just meh

 

glad i didn't pay for it!

[Nazgren]

There is a running internet theory that Kylo Ren is basically a Snape rip off. After losing someone he was close to / loved (Buried in what appears to be a grave that Luke is standing over?) as a result of his playing with the dark side he becomes a double agent and gets close to the leader of the bad guys (Voldemort / Snoke) and has to murder someone close to him with there permission (Dumbledore / Solo) to gain enough trust with the baddies. There are videos about it by youtube theorists such as the SuperCarlinBrothers and makes for a compelling theory.

 

As for how Rey beats Kylo, there is also another theory that says that like the ripple in the dark side caused by Plagueis and Sidious that pushed the force to create Anakin, the Force also created another Immaculate conception following the death of Sidious or some other event, resulting in a second immaculate conception, Rey (which would make her Anakins brother and Leia and Lukes uncle). This would make her of similar natural ability to Anakin and thus able to b*tchslap Kylo.

 

Both are just theorys, make of them what you will.