Rekar Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 This guy is supposed to be the new bad guy right? Why the hell is so such a whinny ***? He gets mad and starts throwing a temper tantrum. What a baby, but then again hes just like how the younger generation is now a days. They don't get it there way they cry about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phalczen Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 This guy is supposed to be the new bad guy right? Why the hell is so such a whinny ***? He gets mad and starts throwing a temper tantrum. What a baby, but then again hes just like how the younger generation is now a days. They don't get it there way they cry about it. He's raw. His training is unfinished (probably on purpose), and he constantly lives in fear of failing to rise to the legacy of Darth Vader's grandson. Is it any different from Anakin in Ep II-III? He views his father as weak, but his father (and notably not his mother) is his pull to the light side. Supreme Leader Snoke is most likely only a fraction of the penultimate dark side user, Darth Sidious. So my guess is that the reason Kylo Ren's training remains unfinished is that Snoke is incomplete as well. Perhaps the most Snoke knows is to "unleash your anger," and so Ren does so at any and every opportunity. Even though JJ has said they are not Sith, to me it seems they both crave power rather than embodying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rekar Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 He's raw. His training is unfinished (probably on purpose), and he constantly lives in fear of failing to rise to the legacy of Darth Vader's grandson. Is it any different from Anakin in Ep II-III? He views his father as weak, but his father (and notably not his mother) is his pull to the light side. Supreme Leader Snoke is most likely only a fraction of the penultimate dark side user, Darth Sidious. So my guess is that the reason Kylo Ren's training remains unfinished is that Snoke is incomplete as well. Perhaps the most Snoke knows is to "unleash your anger," and so Ren does so at any and every opportunity. Even though JJ has said they are not Sith, to me it seems they both crave power rather than embodying it. I get what ya mean , just really disappointed in the movie. I mean it was like a remake of " A New Hope" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaibotLiu Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Because being dark side just by killing a bunch of people is kind of pointless and lame, and one dimensional. They need to establish motivations for why the character has turned to the dark side, it's not supposed to be pretty or especially flattering. You're supposed to dislike the villain, there's only a few proven ways you can achieve that effect in an audience, and they're already touched on a couple of ways with Kylo. They could have made him a more ominous character, they could have made him win his duel with Rey, but that duel exists for the sole purpose of putting one of the characters over, clearly not killing one of them off. Since it's the first film in the new trilogy they need a good feel ending, and Rey is the catalyst to the whole thing. Both Rey and Kylo are set to be in a position to refine and strengthen their skills in the next movie. We need to give them time to mature as characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) in the novelization (only on kindle so far) its clear he has been through a lot and is torn up emotionally. mind you he actually flat out says he's torn apart in the movie. hes a sith warrior who is innately good but desperately wants to be evil. so hes not really the 'new bad guy' hes like a reverse anakin, he starts off evil but may eventually become good. in the novelization he is trying not to hurt or kill rey, and you find out there's some dark side being used when she does beat him. movie doesnt cover this but thats a 2 hour runtime for ya Edited December 21, 2015 by maxetius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaibotLiu Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Also, yes Kylo is essentially a kid. It's not about kids these days, it's the way kids have always been. **** I'm still like that, it's called testosterone. The rage builds up and you take it out on the nearest TV set. It's not exactly whining it's just not knowing how to control your emotions, men in general just aren't good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrolan Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 IMO he's essentially Anakin done right which may have been the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigray Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 IMO he's essentially Anakin done right which may have been the point. Can you imagine how good EP2 or 3 had been, if they had written Anakin this way, or rather if the character could emote the way Driver did. I thought he did a good job of conveying his own fear, insecurity, instability. It made him seem more dangerous. And suspending the blaster bolt in air like that is one of the coolest force displays I've seen in all the movies, up there with Yoda absorbing the lightning imo. It just looked bad ***. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gothshark Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 This guy is supposed to be the new bad guy right? Why the hell is so such a whinny ***? He gets mad and starts throwing a temper tantrum. What a baby, but then again hes just like how the younger generation is now a days. They don't get it there way they cry about it. Kylo Ren, the inept Vader wantabe. He has no redeeming characteristics, and although jarring, and a failure at being a respectable villain, I felt that was the intent of the Character, he is a spoiled brat with delusions of greatness. Although he is by far one of the strongest force users in the films so far. His mental state, and lack of self-identity make him feel like a weak person who makes us unwilling to like him. When compared to Darth Vader’s stoic approach, he is overly emotional and unsure of himself. Vader made us love him for being himself, Ren makes us hate him, for not having a true self identity. Over all I want to see him fail hard, and that’s a good thing to have in an antagonist. Granted, in the long history of Star Wars, I feel this is the first time a Villain made me feel this way, Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, made a plan that took at least 10 years to fulfill, he set up the end of the Republic in such a way everyone besides the Jedi were happy about it. He was a master of manipulation, and a brilliant strategist. Everyone loves him, which is good for a pulp villain. Meanwhile Ren is a guy you can’t like, he is almost as vile as King Joffrey from GoTs. The 1st order, like Kylo Ren, they have a second string feel to them. Although they are defiantly a more realistic threat than Empire was. The fault in them also feels intentional, they seem to be more a Cult than an actual society. Which makes them in many ways not only more dangerous, but also less respectful. The Empire was an efficient Government, which was outlawing Slavery, and bringing Security to the Galaxy at the expense of freedom, and due process. A person could be quiet comfortable with the Empire in charge, conversely, the First Order steals children to raise them as Storm Troopers. They are willing to Murder entire star systems just to make a point. Yes, I know, Alderaan was also destroyed. However, they as a people, and their leadership had always been a thorn in the Empires Side, the first Order struck and destroyed several worlds at once, to include the current Republic Capital world, more as a statement that they should be taken serious. Since the Resistance fighting them, was less an Army of the Republic and more a Vigilantly Mercenary force receiving just enough funds to annoy the First Order. I should also point out the Mysterious Boss of the First Order, the Supreme Leader Snoke. … Say that out loud, and imagine Gollum after losing a fight with a Jedi and getting badly burned. This is the new replacement for Emperor Palpatine, he is stoic yet almost a joke in name and appearance. The disconnect once again pushes our feelings in such a way as to make us innately dislike him. Where I could respect Darth Sidious, and his long term planning and foresight. Snoke who talks about watching the rise and fall of the Sith, the Empire, and he implied the Republic as well, felt as if he was tired of being ignored. I think his Starkiller was an Attempt to show the Galaxy to take him ‘Cereals’. (Yes a south park reference) He and his Order are a real threat to the Galaxy, and make a good antagonistic faction if you want people to naturally dislike them. Unlike the Sith, whom I would join, I dislike the Knights of Ren enough that I will not ever claim to be one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livestick Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 Obviously, he's just jealous because Jacen did the "evil son of Han and Leia" concept better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted December 21, 2015 Share Posted December 21, 2015 (edited) ^^ This is what The First Order and their boss felt like. Edited December 21, 2015 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Kylo Ren, the inept Vader wantabe. He has no redeeming characteristics, and although jarring, and a failure at being a respectable villain, I felt that was the intent of the Character, he is a spoiled brat with delusions of greatness. Although he is by far one of the strongest force users in the films so far. His mental state, and lack of self-identity make him feel like a weak person who makes us unwilling to like him. When compared to Darth Vader’s stoic approach, he is overly emotional and unsure of himself. Vader made us love him for being himself, Ren makes us hate him, for not having a true self identity. Over all I want to see him fail hard, and that’s a good thing to have in an antagonist. Granted, in the long history of Star Wars, I feel this is the first time a Villain made me feel this way, Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, made a plan that took at least 10 years to fulfill, he set up the end of the Republic in such a way everyone besides the Jedi were happy about it. He was a master of manipulation, and a brilliant strategist. Everyone loves him, which is good for a pulp villain. Meanwhile Ren is a guy you can’t like, he is almost as vile as King Joffrey from GoTs. The 1st order, like Kylo Ren, they have a second string feel to them. Although they are defiantly a more realistic threat than Empire was. The fault in them also feels intentional, they seem to be more a Cult than an actual society. Which makes them in many ways not only more dangerous, but also less respectful. The Empire was an efficient Government, which was outlawing Slavery, and bringing Security to the Galaxy at the expense of freedom, and due process. A person could be quiet comfortable with the Empire in charge, conversely, the First Order steals children to raise them as Storm Troopers. They are willing to Murder entire star systems just to make a point. Yes, I know, Alderaan was also destroyed. However, they as a people, and their leadership had always been a thorn in the Empires Side, the first Order struck and destroyed several worlds at once, to include the current Republic Capital world, more as a statement that they should be taken serious. Since the Resistance fighting them, was less an Army of the Republic and more a Vigilantly Mercenary force receiving just enough funds to annoy the First Order. I should also point out the Mysterious Boss of the First Order, the Supreme Leader Snoke. … Say that out loud, and imagine Gollum after losing a fight with a Jedi and getting badly burned. This is the new replacement for Emperor Palpatine, he is stoic yet almost a joke in name and appearance. The disconnect once again pushes our feelings in such a way as to make us innately dislike him. Where I could respect Darth Sidious, and his long term planning and foresight. Snoke who talks about watching the rise and fall of the Sith, the Empire, and he implied the Republic as well, felt as if he was tired of being ignored. I think his Starkiller was an Attempt to show the Galaxy to take him ‘Cereals’. (Yes a south park reference) He and his Order are a real threat to the Galaxy, and make a good antagonistic faction if you want people to naturally dislike them. Unlike the Sith, whom I would join, I dislike the Knights of Ren enough that I will not ever claim to be one. The first order reminded me almost more of a political party then a government Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldskoolfunk Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Kylo Ren, the inept Vader wantabe. He has no redeeming characteristics, and although jarring, and a failure at being a respectable villain, I felt that was the intent of the Character, he is a spoiled brat with delusions of greatness. Although he is by far one of the strongest force users in the films so far. His mental state, and lack of self-identity make him feel like a weak person who makes us unwilling to like him. When compared to Darth Vader’s stoic approach, he is overly emotional and unsure of himself. Vader made us love him for being himself, Ren makes us hate him, for not having a true self identity. Over all I want to see him fail hard, and that’s a good thing to have in an antagonist. Granted, in the long history of Star Wars, I feel this is the first time a Villain made me feel this way, Palpatine, also known as Darth Sidious, made a plan that took at least 10 years to fulfill, he set up the end of the Republic in such a way everyone besides the Jedi were happy about it. He was a master of manipulation, and a brilliant strategist. Everyone loves him, which is good for a pulp villain. Meanwhile Ren is a guy you can’t like, he is almost as vile as King Joffrey from GoTs. The 1st order, like Kylo Ren, they have a second string feel to them. Although they are defiantly a more realistic threat than Empire was. The fault in them also feels intentional, they seem to be more a Cult than an actual society. Which makes them in many ways not only more dangerous, but also less respectful. The Empire was an efficient Government, which was outlawing Slavery, and bringing Security to the Galaxy at the expense of freedom, and due process. A person could be quiet comfortable with the Empire in charge, conversely, the First Order steals children to raise them as Storm Troopers. They are willing to Murder entire star systems just to make a point. Yes, I know, Alderaan was also destroyed. However, they as a people, and their leadership had always been a thorn in the Empires Side, the first Order struck and destroyed several worlds at once, to include the current Republic Capital world, more as a statement that they should be taken serious. Since the Resistance fighting them, was less an Army of the Republic and more a Vigilantly Mercenary force receiving just enough funds to annoy the First Order. I should also point out the Mysterious Boss of the First Order, the Supreme Leader Snoke. … Say that out loud, and imagine Gollum after losing a fight with a Jedi and getting badly burned. This is the new replacement for Emperor Palpatine, he is stoic yet almost a joke in name and appearance. The disconnect once again pushes our feelings in such a way as to make us innately dislike him. Where I could respect Darth Sidious, and his long term planning and foresight. Snoke who talks about watching the rise and fall of the Sith, the Empire, and he implied the Republic as well, felt as if he was tired of being ignored. I think his Starkiller was an Attempt to show the Galaxy to take him ‘Cereals’. (Yes a south park reference) He and his Order are a real threat to the Galaxy, and make a good antagonistic faction if you want people to naturally dislike them. Unlike the Sith, whom I would join, I dislike the Knights of Ren enough that I will not ever claim to be one. I agree with a lot of your description of Kylo, but (and you point out) that is the point of the character. I was talking to someone yesterday that said he was an emotional Darth Vader wannabe... that is the entire point of the character! I actually thought Adam Driver nailed the performance. The more we see Kylo Ren unravel as the film progresses gave so much more impact to Snoke's statement of "bring him to me. it is time to finish his training.". That was a moment that really shed light on so much regarding the character. I thought Driver's interaction with Han was well done, and I liked his emotional range. I love Darth Vader for being so cut and dry evil in the first two films. Vader never misses a beat in those movies as the bad guy and he is an iconic movie villain for being so stoic in his monster nature. Kylo Ren is exactly the opposite of this, but, to me at least, the film pulls it off well. As someone else said in this thread, he was Anakin in Episode 2-3 done right. Hats off to Mr. Driver. I thought he was great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuangTzu Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 I agree with a lot of your description of Kylo, but (and you point out) that is the point of the character. I was talking to someone yesterday that said he was an emotional Darth Vader wannabe... that is the entire point of the character! I actually thought Adam Driver nailed the performance. The more we see Kylo Ren unravel as the film progresses gave so much more impact to Snoke's statement of "bring him to me. it is time to finish his training.". That was a moment that really shed light on so much regarding the character. I thought Driver's interaction with Han was well done, and I liked his emotional range. I love Darth Vader for being so cut and dry evil in the first two films. Vader never misses a beat in those movies as the bad guy and he is an iconic movie villain for being so stoic in his monster nature. Kylo Ren is exactly the opposite of this, but, to me at least, the film pulls it off well. As someone else said in this thread, he was Anakin in Episode 2-3 done right. Hats off to Mr. Driver. I thought he was great. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirenSounds Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Agreed @Gothshark as well To add, I think it makes complete and total sense that Kylo goes completely off the rails when informed BB/Finn escaped. Its much, much more believable as well, because the officer informing him is just completely terrified about what the news means to him (the officer). He knows somewhere down the line that going to tell Kylo, "Hey, we umm.. messed up. The BB unit got away, and the..... the expresso machine is down". Is the short straw order of the day. I never got that feeling from Vader. I get it, it was '77 afterall, so filming some guy go nuts wasnt quite normal back then, but he always seemed more level headed. Kylo though, he's much more believable as how a bad guy using dark Force powers would sort of come into his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted December 22, 2015 Share Posted December 22, 2015 Agreed @Gothshark as well To add, I think it makes complete and total sense that Kylo goes completely off the rails when informed BB/Finn escaped. Its much, much more believable as well, because the officer informing him is just completely terrified about what the news means to him (the officer). He knows somewhere down the line that going to tell Kylo, "Hey, we umm.. messed up. The BB unit got away, and the..... the expresso machine is down". Is the short straw order of the day. I never got that feeling from Vader. I get it, it was '77 afterall, so filming some guy go nuts wasnt quite normal back then, but he always seemed more level headed. Kylo though, he's much more believable as how a bad guy using dark Force powers would sort of come into his own. now see, I got the exact oppisite, I got that vader was the type to have true directed rage, Kylo, with the way he hacked away at computer screens and stuff... oddly I got the impression he was doing it because he felt thats what was expected of a dark side user. a child pantomiming what he THOUGHT an adult would be like, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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