4.0 Lightning Sorcerer Guide

[MusicRider]

PPS: Alternatively can be tested. 40gcds = 60s (0 alacrity) and 40% crit.

 

(a) inst cycle: 1.5+1.5+5x1.5 = 10.5s

(b) hard-cast cycle: 2.5+1.5+1.5 + 4.x1.5 = 11.5s

 

(a) fits in 60s 5 times + 7.5s

(b) fits in 60s 5 times + 2.5s.

 

(a) has 35+4=39 bursts and 5+1=6 waves

(b) has 25 bursts and 10+1=11 waves

 

(a) damage: 39*mean_burst*0.6 + 39*crit_mean_burst*0.4 + 6*mean_wave*0.4 + 6*crit_mean_wave*0.6

(b) damage: 25*mean_burst*0.6 + 25*crit_mean_burst*0.4 + 11*mean_wave*0.4 + 11*crit_mean_wave*0.6

 

Who is higher?

 

PS on PPS: Do acknowledge it depends on the cutoff of the time duration. Eg. Probably cutoff duration at 54-55s might benefit (a) while 60s might benefit (b), but over a long fight the difference should be insignificant.

 

So using average normal and crit damages of the abilities given in the previous post, it yields that in this 60s duration the dps are:

 

(a) using wave on proc only: 3539 dps

(b) also hard-casting wave: 3084 dps

 

There is not even a comparison. For single target damage hard-casting wave (chain ling) is a significant dps loss over the normal filler.

 

Long story short, unless there are adds there is no reason to hardcast chain lightning, and even then once they have the AoE debuff, Force Storm spam until CL proc is probably about as good.

 

Well, CL does have double proc chance and crit/surge bonuses so it does make a difference aoe dps wise, but adds are adds so in practice the outcome is still the same. From a pvp point of view though if allowed to free-cast and having the potential to hit more than 3 targets a hard-casted CL is a very good thing both dps and burst wise.

Edited January 28, 2016 by MusicRider

[mwissie]

PPS: Alternatively can be tested. 40gcds = 60s (0 alacrity) and 40% crit.

 

(a) inst cycle: 1.5+1.5+5x1.5 = 10.5s

(b) hard-cast cycle: 2.5+1.5+1.5 + 4.x1.5 = 11.5s

 

(a) fits in 60s 5 times + 7.5s

(b) fits in 60s 5 times + 2.5s.

 

(a) has 35+4=39 bursts and 5+1=6 waves

(b) has 25 bursts and 10+1=11 waves

 

(a) damage: 39*mean_burst*0.6 + 39*crit_mean_burst*0.4 + 6*mean_wave*0.4 + 6*crit_mean_wave*0.6

(b) damage: 25*mean_burst*0.6 + 25*crit_mean_burst*0.4 + 11*mean_wave*0.4 + 11*crit_mean_wave*0.6

 

Who is higher?

 

PS on PPS: Do acknowledge it depends on the cutoff of the time duration. Eg. Probably cutoff duration at 54-55s might benefit (a) while 60s might benefit (b), but over a long fight the difference should be insignificant.

 

this is nice and all, but incorrect

You're missing increased dmg from weaken mind/affliction (which makes them much closer)

 

@bant's numbers.. thnx for getting him to calculate it ^^

Turns out I'm wrong (checked if he counted affliction, which he did, so I assume all other numbers are correct)

 

So now the only (legitimate) reason to use this rotation is for multitarget fights

BTW, spamming force storm will greatly reduce boss dmg, this rotation will keep you close to max dps on boss, but with double splash (keep weaken mind on all targets if possible)

 

A perfect example of where this would shine is jarg and sorno

 

The only other reason is, that the rotation is easier, you can't really mess is up; but that shouldn't be The reason for anyone

 

Enough said about this I think

(would be nice to add it in the guide, as multitarget rotation or something, but do whatever you like ^^)

[antochx]

Long story short, unless there are adds there is no reason to hardcast chain lightning, and even then once they have the AoE debuff, Force Storm spam until CL proc is probably about as good.

 

So now the only (legitimate) reason to use this rotation is for multitarget fights

 

can also be used hardcast chain lightning on burst phase can be anticipated

 

it is better to train with mwissie rotation because the majority of bosses got add

[MusicRider]

this is nice and all, but incorrect

You're missing increased dmg from weaken mind/affliction (which makes them much closer)

Good point for this. Including affliction and using the numbers above there are 31 ticks in 60s with wave only on proc and 36 when also hard-casting it. Reruning the above adding the affliction factors yields:

 

only with proc: 4136 dps

hard-cast also: 3777 dps

 

difference is 359 dps, still a lot.

Edited January 28, 2016 by MusicRider

[mwissie]

can also be used hardcast chain lightning on burst phase can be anticipated

 

it is better to train with mwissie rotation because the majority of bosses got add

 

it's better to practice and know both rotations, and be comfortable enough to switch between them midfight

good thing is that you can pretty much switch back and forth on will

 

only with proc: 4136 dps

hard-cast also: 3777 dps

 

difference is 359 dps, still a lot.

edit: checked your numbers, and I got a difference of 279 dps

only with proc: TeleBurst(4418.59 * 39 / 60) + TKW(7090.34 * 6 / 60) + WM(1464.08 / 1.99) = 4331.91 dps

hard-cast: TeleBurst(4455.41 * 24 / 60) + TKW(6945.57 * 12 / 60) + WM(1463.57 / 1.66) = 4052.95 dps

difference: 278.96 dps

one change I made is the amount of tele bursts and waves; since this is the rotation: 2.5+1.5+1.5 +3*1.5 (not 4*filler, that's only when glitched), =10secs; fits 6 times in 60 seconds, thus 24 bursts, 12 waves

the other change is that I ignore calculating crits etc, and just picked the calculated average hit (not tooltip dmg)

 

remember though that this static comparison between bursts and waves doesn't fit into reality as easily as looks; another contributor to the difference in dps is that hard-casting will sometimes delay both MC and gust

which is also why using a fully calculated comparison like Bant's is better than small ones (though it's a lot more work ofc)

end of edit

 

interesting thing is that the 'actual' dps difference is 228

it does seem a lot, but in an actual fight it can go either way (even in a single target fight), as this assumes perfect execution of both rotations (which will hardly ever happen in real fights)

but you're all correct that using the normal rotation is best for pure single target fights

 

w.t.f. is this, I'm happy to be proven wrong?

brb, gotta see a doctor

Edited January 28, 2016 by mwissie

[MusicRider]

edit: checked your numbers, and I got a difference of 279 dps

only with proc: TeleBurst(4418.59 * 39 / 60) + TKW(7090.34 * 6 / 60) + WM(1464.08 / 1.99) = 4331.91 dps

hard-cast: TeleBurst(4455.41 * 24 / 60) + TKW(6945.57 * 12 / 60) + WM(1463.57 / 1.66) = 4052.95 dps

difference: 278.96 dps

You can't do that. You need to take into account the crit chances, hence the above formulas I have given just add in the end: + crit_prob*aff_crit_mean_damage*number_of_aff + (1-crit_prob)*aff_nocrit_mean_damage*number_of_aff

 

one change I made is the amount of tele bursts and waves; since this is the rotation: 2.5+1.5+1.5 +3*1.5 (not 4*filler, that's only when glitched), =10secs; fits 6 times in 60 seconds, thus 24 bursts, 12 waves

Didn't double check my but proc regained every 10s and starts from the beginning of it, it would be the 2nd 1.5s so you would have wave gcd 1.5 leaving 8.5s for fillers 8.5/1.5=5.6666 so 4 in the end and 1 in the beginning (which with some server lags and key press delay it should be ok, otherwise it is an extra gcd longer). Am I missing smth here? What glitch are you referring to?

 

the other change is that I ignore calculating crits etc, and just picked the calculated average hit (not tooltip dmg)

Can't do that as I explained above.

 

remember though that this static comparison between bursts and waves doesn't fit into reality as easily as looks; another contributor to the difference in dps is that hard-casting will sometimes delay both MC and gust

which is also why using a fully calculated comparison like Bant's is better than small ones (though it's a lot more work ofc)

end of edit

 

Agree. The thing is that in the full rotation the other abilities are replacing disturbances hence making the two "rotations" look more similar to each other with a closer distribution of disturbances. They become even closer if you still follow the classic priority list, i.e. gust and mind crush before wave (on proc or not), as the number of waves also become more similar. But as you see there is at least a 200 dps difference which is 3-4% dps difference (quite significant for such change). My analysis exaggerates this by being focussed on the comparison of these two abilities.

 

Bottom line IMO, hard casting wave does not really constitute a rotation but a situational application, that is when adds are around, and I say situational cause there are other factors to consider. For example you might want to stick with the single target rotation if the groups rotational aoe dps is sufficient to eliminate the threat of adds, then again a hard-casted wave a few times in a fight is not again so detrimental to the single target dps.

Edited January 28, 2016 by MusicRider

[mwissie]

You can't do that. You need to take into account the crit chances, hence the above formulas I have given just add in the end: + crit_prob*aff_crit_mean_damage*number_of_aff + (1-crit_prob)*aff_nocrit_mean_damage*number_of_aff

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't average hit already taking crit chances into account?, if that's the case you can ignore calculating crit, and just use the precalculated average

 

Didn't double check my but proc regained every 10s and starts from the beginning of it, it would be the 2nd 1.5s so you would have wave gcd 1.5 leaving 8.5s for fillers 8.5/1.5=5.6666 so 4 in the end and 1 in the beginning (which with some server lags and key press delay it should be ok, otherwise it is an extra gcd longer). Am I missing smth here? What glitch are you referring to?

TKW has a 6sec CD, after using the procced TKW you spend 4GCD total (6/1.5=4; including that procced TKW); then hard-cast TKW, then turbulence, then TKW proccs again (since the turbulence cast ends exactly after the 10secs internal CD is over)

so that's 2.5 + 1.5 + 6 secs (1.5 + 3GCD) = 10 secs

the glitch I'm referring to is that TKW can suddenly become an instant ability (without proc, until you relog or get a loading screen), which saves 1 second cast time, which delays turbulence by 0.5 secs, but adds a GCD extra, and makes the rotation a lot less strict; but enough about that, if you want to read more, I suggest you read the previous 2 pages

 

Can't do that as I explained above.

saying I ignored crit chances was a bad choice of wording on my part; I meant that I just took Bant's calculated average (which is basically the result of your formula, but with the BiS crit chance )

 

Agree. The thing is that in the full rotation the other abilities are replacing disturbances hence making the two "rotations" look more similar to each other with a closer distribution of disturbances. They become even closer if you still follow the classic priority list, i.e. gust and mind crush before wave (on proc or not), as the number of waves also become more similar. But as you see there is at least a 200 dps difference which is 3-4% dps difference (quite significant for such change). My analysis exaggerates this by being focussed on the comparison of these two abilities.

it's impossible to fully follow the classic priority list if you're using the hard-cast version of the rotation (since you MUST use TKW on CD/on proc and cannot delay it or the rotation breaks); so the classic rotation will have more MC ability usages, and more gust ability usages (200 dps lost from those 2, using Bant's numbers)

 

Bottom line IMO, hard casting wave does not really constitute a rotation but a situational application, that is when adds are around, and I say situational cause there are other factors to consider. For example you might want to stick with the single target rotation if the groups rotational aoe dps is sufficient to eliminate the threat of adds, then again a hard-casted wave a few times in a fight is not again so detrimental to the single target dps.

it depends on how you define a rotation really.. it has a significant impact on the rotation you use if you consistently hard-cast TKW; that's why I called it an alternative rotation

but correct, that rotation is very situational in when/where you should use it

 

there is no reason why you should not use this rotation if there is ANYTHING in the splash range. the only reason I can think of is when the adds don't actually do any dmg to anyone, but that's the only reason (and very, very rare). not using it will reduce your groups dps (since leaving adds alive increases group dmg taken, which increases healing required, which reduces healer dps output)

the difference in single target dps between both rotations isn't significant enough to actually be worth holding back on splash dmg

especially since in reality the difference in dps depends a LOT on the player and RNG (unless you use the classic rotation perfectly, the hard-cast version might actually work better for you)

 

but ofcourse, there are tons, and tons of factors which I'm not mentioning (mobility is a big factor; too much aoe burst threat is a factor; dmging repair droids on torque is a factor; etc)

 

but if none of that is a factor, hard-casting TKW is The Best rotation (with minimal/insignificant single target dps loss), IF there is even 1 add or boss in the splash range; and remember how many bosses have adds

[MusicRider]

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't average hit already taking crit chances into account?, if that's the case you can ignore calculating crit, and just use the precalculated average

No it does not. The average damage of an ability is computed by (known as expected value, wiki for it if you want to know more):

(1-probability_crit)*ability_avg_nocrit_damage + probability_crit*ability_avg_crit_damage

 

In fact Bant's numbers that were presented before are not 100% percent accurate as the avg damage numbers should be identical in both cases (when hard-cast, or when only on proc), and same applies with the crit rates. But, they had been calculated empirically (frequentist approach) and since they are very close to each other (and also would be to the true expectation) it is a good enough approximation.

 

 

TKW has a 6sec CD, after using the procced TKW you spend 4GCD total (6/1.5=4; including that procced TKW); then hard-cast TKW, then turbulence, then TKW proccs again (since the turbulence cast ends exactly after the 10secs internal CD is over)

so that's 2.5 + 1.5 + 6 secs (1.5 + 3GCD) = 10 secs

the glitch I'm referring to is that TKW can suddenly become an instant ability (without proc, until you relog or get a loading screen), which saves 1 second cast time, which delays turbulence by 0.5 secs, but adds a GCD extra, and makes the rotation a lot less strict; but enough about that, if you want to read more, I suggest you read the previous 2 pages

Ah yes I see. Should be 1 more wave 1 less disturbance. No time to recalculate but it would be just a little bit smaller difference, but still quite high (over 300 on my calcs). Yes show smth, but I usually don't bother with glitches/bugs, which should not be relied on an analysis.

 

saying I ignored crit chances was a bad choice of wording on my part; I meant that I just took Bant's calculated average (which is basically the result of your formula, but with the BiS crit chance )

see above.

 

 

it's impossible to fully follow the classic priority list if you're using the hard-cast version of the rotation (since you MUST use TKW on CD/on proc and cannot delay it or the rotation breaks); so the classic rotation will have more MC ability usages, and more gust ability usages (200 dps lost from those 2, using Bant's numbers)

 

 

it depends on how you define a rotation really.. it has a significant impact on the rotation you use if you consistently hard-cast TKW; that's why I called it an alternative rotation

but correct, that rotation is very situational in when/where you should use it

 

there is no reason why you should not use this rotation if there is ANYTHING in the splash range. the only reason I can think of is when the adds don't actually do any dmg to anyone, but that's the only reason (and very, very rare). not using it will reduce your groups dps (since leaving adds alive increases group dmg taken, which increases healing required, which reduces healer dps output)

the difference in single target dps between both rotations isn't significant enough to actually be worth holding back on splash dmg

especially since in reality the difference in dps depends a LOT on the player and RNG (unless you use the classic rotation perfectly, the hard-cast version might actually work better for you)

 

but ofcourse, there are tons, and tons of factors which I'm not mentioning (mobility is a big factor; too much aoe burst threat is a factor; dmging repair droids on torque is a factor; etc)

 

but if none of that is a factor, hard-casting TKW is The Best rotation (with minimal/insignificant single target dps loss), IF there is even 1 add or boss in the splash range; and remember how many bosses have adds

 

To do that would need to spend gcds to afflict each add, and to be worth it each add has to live long enough. But yes, as I said nothing wrong if taking down adds is primary concern to do that, but also see nothing wrong by going with the more traditional and striaght forwards quake/waves.

Edited January 29, 2016 by MusicRider

[mwissie]

No it does not. The average damage of an ability is computed by (known as expected value, wiki for it if you want to know more):

(1-probability_crit)*ability_avg_nocrit_damage + probability_crit*ability_avg_crit_damage

I'm not sure I follow..

do you mean average number = (1-probability_crit)*ability_avg_nocrit_damage + probability_crit*ability_avg_crit_damage

while you should calculate using this formula "crit_prob*ability_crit_mean_damage*number_of_ability + (1-crit_prob)*ability_nocrit_mean_damage*number_of_ability"?

because as far as I can tell they're basically the same

((1-probability_crit)*ability_avg_nocrit_damage + probability_crit*ability_avg_crit_damage) * number_of_ability = crit_prob*ability_crit_mean_damage*number_of_ability + (1-crit_prob)*ability_nocrit_mean_damage*number_of_ability

 

using your formula with Bant's numbers (using his normal hit, normal crit hit and crit chance), I get pretty much his average hit; so I still don't see what difference it makes?

apart from that he uses a different crit% per ability, while you use 40% for both of them

 

To do that would need to spend gcds to afflict each add, and to be worth it each add has to live long enough. But yes, as I said nothing wrong if taking down adds is primary concern to do that, but also see nothing wrong by going with the more traditional and striaght forwards quake/waves.

yup, putting WM on all adds will increase dmg, but only if they survive long enough, which is why you only do it on a few cases (like jealous male, and all bosses where there are 2 to kill: zorn and toth, EC tanks, jarg and sorno, sword squadron)

 

there is nothing 'wrong' with either rotations it's just that one will be sub-optimal compared to the other, depending on the situation

 

"quake/waves" will lower your primary target dps a LOT more than hard-casting TKW (and staying single target for the rest) would; it's situational, depending on which adds, depending on your tanks/healers etc whether you should go full out AOE, or push a little bit extra aoe dmg, while staying focused on the boss (it also depends on the other dps specs)

[DTalyn]

This is a really helpful guide. I've been wanting to play a Sith Inquisitor for awhile, but was hesitant to do so.

 

Thanks for the guide.

[MusicRider]

I'm not sure I follow..

do you mean average number = (1-probability_crit)*ability_avg_nocrit_damage + probability_crit*ability_avg_crit_damage

while you should calculate using this formula "crit_prob*ability_crit_mean_damage*number_of_ability + (1-crit_prob)*ability_nocrit_mean_damage*number_of_ability"?

because as far as I can tell they're basically the same

((1-probability_crit)*ability_avg_nocrit_damage + probability_crit*ability_avg_crit_damage) * number_of_ability = crit_prob*ability_crit_mean_damage*number_of_ability + (1-crit_prob)*ability_nocrit_mean_damage*number_of_ability

 

using your formula with Bant's numbers (using his normal hit, normal crit hit and crit chance), I get pretty much his average hit; so I still don't see what difference it makes?

apart from that he uses a different crit% per ability, while you use 40% for both of them

 

 

yup, putting WM on all adds will increase dmg, but only if they survive long enough, which is why you only do it on a few cases (like jealous male, and all bosses where there are 2 to kill: zorn and toth, EC tanks, jarg and sorno, sword squadron)

 

there is nothing 'wrong' with either rotations it's just that one will be sub-optimal compared to the other, depending on the situation

 

"quake/waves" will lower your primary target dps a LOT more than hard-casting TKW (and staying single target for the rest) would; it's situational, depending on which adds, depending on your tanks/healers etc whether you should go full out AOE, or push a little bit extra aoe dmg, while staying focused on the boss (it also depends on the other dps specs)

 

To close this as we agree that using wave on proc is the way to go for single target damage at least . The equations you say above are the same. I assume that Banti computed expected value by sampling. Can easily verify that by

0.4107*5803.15 + (1-0.4107)*3453.5 = 4418.50 ~= 4418.59 (I assume rounding errors and floating point computations for this small difference).

 

So if you used these numbers then yes you are safe . One is based on samples (frequentism), the other is based on expected value equation (closer to bayesian interpretation).

Edited February 1, 2016 by MusicRider

[ArcAngelSeth]

My only issue with your guide is that you don't double proc chain lightning. Getting the double insta proc chain lightning is such a huge boost for lightning sorcs. There is no reason to not double cast chain except for the .5ish second wait for the first cast.

[DarthCognusSion]

My only issue with your guide is that you don't double proc chain lightning. Getting the double insta proc chain lightning is such a huge boost for lightning sorcs. There is no reason to not double cast chain except for the .5ish second wait for the first cast.

 

If you are suggesting that I promote utilizing a bug to increase damage, then I am sorry to say that I refuse to do so. If you are suggesting that I promote hard casting chain lightning, then you can look at the previous discussion on this thread and notice that hard casting is a single target dps loss, so therefore it does not have a place in the rotation.

[antochx]

there is no official message to say that this is a bug, so it's not a bug

 

If you are suggesting that I promote utilizing a bug to increase damage, then I am sorry to say that I refuse to do so. If you are suggesting that I promote hard casting chain lightning, then you can look at the previous discussion on this thread and notice that hard casting is a single target dps loss, so therefore it does not have a place in the rotation.

 

you refuse to use the dual proc chain lightning but you recommeded to use bug Bracers and you get 50% (instead of 25%) proc on Thundering Blast without using bug on your best parse

Edited February 18, 2016 by antochx

[mwissie]

there is no official message to say that this is a bug, so it's not a bug

there is no official message to say that you're a human, so you're not a human

kidding aside; a lack of official response does not mean that BW thinks it's okay; most exploits don't get official response until after it's fixed

 

If you are suggesting that I promote hard casting chain lightning, then you can look at the previous discussion on this thread and notice that hard casting is a single target dps loss, so therefore it does not have a place in the rotation.

but it's a huge multitarget dps gain.. therefore it 'should' be at least noted under an aoe rotation section or whatever

[antochx]

there is no official message to say that you're a human, so you're not a human

kidding aside; a lack of official response does not mean that BW thinks it's okay; most exploits don't get official response until after it's fixed

 

the human have not been created by BW

but sage was created by BW

 

This bug exist for 3 years and they never have done nothing to prevent this bug, despite are massive use

while simple solution exist like having a immune against pushback, or have a cooldowns of 15s on the TKW

 

and finally if they really wanted that not using this bug they would simply remove the post in where is said how to have bug

thing that has not been done

[DarthCognusSion]

there is no official message to say that this is a bug, so it's not a bug

 

 

 

you refuse to use the dual proc chain lightning but you recommeded to use bug Bracers and you get 50% (instead of 25%) proc on Thundering Blast without using bug on your best parse

 

First you clearly don't understand what RNG is. I had amazing Forked Lightning and Forked Darkness procs that parse, which is what made it so good. It is a 25% chance to proc, but that doesn't mean it can't proc more or less because not every sorc parse has these things happening exactly 1/4 of the total hits. Good RNG is not a bug, just lucky. Yes I do recommend the bracers that have incorrect stat because they are BiS, but if if makes you feel any better, the actual difference in damage is really not that much. I could put 224 bracers on with an alacrity augment in and lose 50 alacrity, which at 1065 is laughable. That is not to mention the amount of mastery and power that I would actually gain back. Bugging out the Chain Lightning on the other hand is a major dps increase. And just because they haven't said it isn't a bug, doesn't mean it isn't a bug. The same reasoning was used for every exploit, and everyone saw how thsoe worked out. But you know what, since it doesn't matter at all, I'll take off the bracers and change the stats. I have asked nicely before, but I seem to have been ignored so I will say this again. This guide and thread are meant to discuss how to play Sorcerer legitimately. So if you want to discuss your bugs please do so elsewhere, and if you want your precious hardcast and double proc bugs in a guide, write that guide yourself.

Edited February 18, 2016 by DarthCognusSion

[antochx]

I can understand that get 1 2 3 proc more is normal

but twice more proc wasn't

[DarthCognusSion]

I can understand that get 1 2 3 proc more is normal

but twice more proc wasn't

 

You are right. It wasn't normal. It was extremely lucky, which is why it was such a good parse. Most if not all top parses for a given spec are often very lucky either on crits, procs, or lack of misses for those dual wielding classes. I don't understand what you are getting at with this. I am not saying top parses are based entirely on luck, as you must have a deep understanding of the class, rotation, and dpsing in general in order to be that high, but what often sets apart the top parses from each other is sometimes if not mostly a matter of luck.

Edited February 18, 2016 by DarthCognusSion

[antochx]

You are right. It wasn't normal. It was extremely lucky, which is why it was such a good parse. Most if not all top parses for a given spec are often very lucky either on crits, procs, or lack of misses for those dual wielding classes. I don't understand what you are getting at with this. I am not saying top parses are based entirely on luck, as you must have a deep understanding of the class, rotation, and dpsing in general in order to be that high, but what often sets apart the top parses from each other is sometimes if not mostly a matter of luck.

we agree that it comes from a bug

[DarthCognusSion]

we agree that it comes from a bug

 

Either you can't read or you do not understand the difference between luck and a bug. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume its the latter. Luck is when something happens that was not probable though still possible, e.g. you having a higher crit percentage than you do crit chance, or you getting more forked lightning and forked darkness procs than tooltip chance states. Every time one of those abilities is used, there is a chance that it will proc, and nowhere does it say that it can't occur at a greater rate. If you were insanely lucky, it could proc every time, but that is not probable. Do you think that someone getting a lucky amount of crits is a bug too?

 

On the other hand, a bug is something that is not supposed to happen. This is your Chain Lightning "double proc". Lightning Storm has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds w/ no alacrity, so another proc occurring within that window should not happen. If it does, it is a bug, regardless of whether Bioware addresses it.

 

You are right. It wasn't normal. It was extremely lucky...

Notice how I mention the luck of that parse. It was extremely good RNG, but that is all. Try to understand what you are talking about before you start speaking because otherwise you just look foolish. I'm sorry to tell you that you are completely wrong in your understanding of bugs, luck, and rng.

[mwissie]

hardcast *snip* bugs

how is that a bug?

 

On the other hand, a bug is something that is not supposed to happen. This is your Chain Lightning "double proc". Lightning Storm has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds w/ no alacrity, so another proc occurring within that window should not happen. If it does, it is a bug, regardless of whether Bioware addresses it.

it doesn't actually double proc; the actual proc still has a tiny benefit compared to the glitched version (lower force cost); but yeah; either the tooltip is unclear or plain wrong, or this is a glitch (and if you don't want to put glitches in your guide that fine)

don't know why you're strongly opposed to mentioning that hardcasting is a valid/the best option for most fights

 

I couldn't care less what you put in your guide, since I don't use it myself, but it'd make your guide more complete

 

edit:

This guide was meant to give players a strong start point for understanding how to play this class at a high level.

need I say more?

Edited February 19, 2016 by mwissie

[antochx]

 

Either you can't read or you do not understand the difference between luck and a bug. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume its the latter. Luck is when something happens that was not probable though still possible, e.g. you having a higher crit percentage than you do crit chance, or you getting more forked lightning and forked darkness procs than tooltip chance states. Every time one of those abilities is used, there is a chance that it will proc, and nowhere does it say that it can't occur at a greater rate. If you were insanely lucky, it could proc every time, but that is not probable. Do you think that someone getting a lucky amount of crits is a bug too?

 

On the other hand, a bug is something that is not supposed to happen. This is your Chain Lightning "double proc". Lightning Storm has an internal cooldown of 10 seconds w/ no alacrity, so another proc occurring within that window should not happen. If it does, it is a bug, regardless of whether Bioware addresses it.

 

 

Notice how I mention the luck of that parse. It was extremely good RNG, but that is all. Try to understand what you are talking about before you start speaking because otherwise you just look foolish. I'm sorry to tell you that you are completely wrong in your understanding of bugs, luck, and rng.

 

I can understand that get 1 2 3 proc more is normal

but here we talking about twice more proc so we cannot exclude this is a bug

 

you said the Chain Lightning "double proc" was randomly before you know how it works

it's the same here for the Forked Darkness' s proc rate

[DarthCognusSion]

At this point I feel like the conversation is going nowhere. I do not agree with the views on bugs that have been discussed in this thread, both what constitutes them and their use. I feel that discussion on the guide and the class is welcome, and anyone that has ideas I will gladly listen and respond to them. However, as far as the hard casting of Chain Lightning is concerned I feel that I have given my reasons for not including it, and I think that it is my prerogative as the author to not put something in the guide which I do not feel is better than what I have already written. I think that on these topics an impasse has been reached, and any further discussion while likely not result in either side changing positions. With that being said, I think it is best to just put these topics aside, or otherwise discuss them elsewhere. I respect everyone's passion for the class, and I cannot tell you what play style to adopt. I can only suggest what I consider to be the most optimal. I hope whatever play style you choose works for you.

[Bluttoh]

At this point I feel like the conversation is going nowhere. I do not agree with the views on bugs that have been discussed in this thread, both what constitutes them and their use. I feel that discussion on the guide and the class is welcome, and anyone that has ideas I will gladly listen and respond to them. However, as far as the hard casting of Chain Lightning is concerned I feel that I have given my reasons for not including it, and I think that it is my prerogative as the author to not put something in the guide which I do not feel is better than what I have already written. I think that on these topics an impasse has been reached, and any further discussion while likely not result in either side changing positions. With that being said, I think it is best to just put these topics aside, or otherwise discuss them elsewhere. I respect everyone's passion for the class, and I cannot tell you what play style to adopt. I can only suggest what I consider to be the most optimal. I hope whatever play style you choose works for you.

 

Well said, bugs-no bugs; the game is the game, working as intended or not, any advice on playing my sorc is appreciated and the OP has done a lot to advance my game play, thanx OP.