QQfest on Sentinels - Truth or L2P?

[PinnyFox]

I don't know, to me the second one seems much more interesting. Keeps me invested in the action, knowing that I have to be an active participant in the fight to succeed.

 

Essentially it's the same reason why I prefer the combat in any Final Fantasy prior to XII compared to XII. FFXII was just - set up gambits, walk around and let the AI do all the fighting for you with minimal required intervention. Lame.

 

Are you going to say that for every. single. fight. you get in? Against strong enemies? Where with a gold you have to use everything you own PLUS a medpack or two (if you aren't dead) and you can just forget about champions?

 

Every so often, sure, make me use all my cooldowns and keep me on the edge of my seat. If it's every single fight ever then no, all that does is wear people out, you can't really say otherwise.

[Nyliana]

I can't speak for PVP sentinels at lvl 50, I am level 32.

 

I love the class. I played scoundrel before (to lvl 22) and was actually disappointed.

 

I can say that I have had no problems PVE. I don't understand the lvl 20-30's complaining about PVE. I rushed story line quests, and did all of them except for the last one with the ship and the super hard guys (should be obvious and not a spoiler) at two levels under the quest. In fact I skipped a lot of side quests and did the planets at 2 levels under all of the mobs.

Was it difficult? The super elites were, sure! It was also one of the most rewarding experiences I've had in an MMO. On that last story fight I had to play perfect, and when I did, I was rewarded for it. If it's not difficult like that for other classes, I would be disappointed in THOSE classes, not sentinel.

 

In PVP at 32 I feel like I'm stomping. Occasionally a 50 will rip me up, but as an earlier poster mentioned you have to play smart and not just run in against 4 people. blowing your cooldowns, MAYBE killing one and then dying, is not the way to play. Since I got my force camouflage I have been able to maintain top 5 for damage in pvp, often top 3.

 

So is it L2P or Buff Sentinel?

My current perception is L2P. I would like to revisit this thread at 50 and report again.

[Sleeptastic]

You guys know that stats in Warzones are normalized right?

[FobManX]

I'm level 37 and I've had no issues whatsoever in PVE. The few times I've died haven't been due to difficulty but just me doing something stupid or being caught off guard.

 

And now that I have Doc I kill at an even faster rate. Pretty much no downtime. I love ending fights with Elites at almost full HP.

[K_osss]

I'm going to side with the learn to play crowd. My sentinel has no problems in pve or pvp. In fact coming from Rift I feel very powerful! It's been going on 3 weeks since release and probably 5 or 6 weeks since sentinels were retooled. Proclaiming they are garbage is premature. Mmo's change all the time they are in constant flux. Let's wait for another month and see how things have gone. Edited December 30, 2011 by K_osss

[thanealpha]

I've been circle strafing with melee dps classes for over a decade. I've worked out a pretty tight set if sequences and keybinded appropriately in this game. I'm one of the top 5 ranked players on my server in another game currently.

 

I'm 42 Sent Combat currently with my live toon (not a fan of dot and control) and I've played several other classes in this game in several warfronts. in beta and live.

 

Oh. I wrecked Valdis at 23 with Kira.

 

Now. All that shows is the game is easy. Which it is. MMOs have been dumbed down more and more for years. The expectation has been set that all players should be able to access all material and be able to win all the time.

 

However in a PvP environment despite the attempts by the developers to the contrary SKILL can matter. In these settings the smallest balance differences can come to light

 

And it's my opinion. Just an opinion folks. That Sents and guards to SOME extent are naturally weaker than the other 3 core classes.

 

Melee dps in particular pure melee dps is almost always at an inherent disadvantage to ranged classes. Classes with kite mechanics. And classes with strong CC.

 

None of which are easily counterable or controllable by Sents.

 

IMHO our dps is NOT enough higher than other classes to compensate for one of the weakest CC skill sets, medium armour, and exceedingly limited range options. All under a mechanic that requires building UP rather than spending down.

 

Address any ONE of those issues and we may be overpowered. Bur those are the pain points leading to alot of our struggles.

 

Can someone L2P and be a better player with better results? Yes

Do we have the weakest class in the game under a lot of common situations? IMHO yes as well.

[Hizoka]

everyone wants something that is faceroll easy... the want everything everyone else has without looking at what the sentinel has. Sents have things other classes would die for, but so many people just QQ we do not have things that we really do not need.

[rukks]

I've been circle strafing with melee dps classes for over a decade. I've worked out a pretty tight set if sequences and keybinded appropriately in this game. I'm one of the top 5 ranked players on my server in another game currently.

 

I'm 42 Sent Combat currently with my live toon (not a fan of dot and control) and I've played several other classes in this game in several warfronts. in beta and live.

 

Oh. I wrecked Valdis at 23 with Kira.

 

Now. All that shows is the game is easy. Which it is. MMOs have been dumbed down more and more for years. The expectation has been set that all players should be able to access all material and be able to win all the time.

 

However in a PvP environment despite the attempts by the developers to the contrary SKILL can matter. In these settings the smallest balance differences can come to light

 

And it's my opinion. Just an opinion folks. That Sents and guards to SOME extent are naturally weaker than the other 3 core classes.

 

Melee dps in particular pure melee dps is almost always at an inherent disadvantage to ranged classes. Classes with kite mechanics. And classes with strong CC.

 

None of which are easily counterable or controllable by Sents.

 

IMHO our dps is NOT enough higher than other classes to compensate for one of the weakest CC skill sets, medium armour, and exceedingly limited range options. All under a mechanic that requires building UP rather than spending down.

 

Address any ONE of those issues and we may be overpowered. Bur those are the pain points leading to alot of our struggles.

 

Can someone L2P and be a better player with better results? Yes

Do we have the weakest class in the game under a lot of common situations? IMHO yes as well.

 

+1

 

Well said.

 

I am loving sent, not having any issues except for UI bugs since I went watchmen. Anyone else get this? Abilities not activating etc?

 

In PvP, sent easily feels like it's the weakest class I've played so far, I have a trooper same level (34) and he feels god mode compared to the sent.

 

I am looking forward to having a pocket healer with me and just going to town. Sentinel is a DPS battery, other class's need to worry about ammo/heat & energy, those resource system's expend alot faster when they are trying to burst (from what I've seen so far), unlike sent's which are an unrelenting dps machine.

 

If your PvPing as combat, just switch. I know, I know, YOU WANT TO BE COMBAT, but it's just not as good at the moment so save yourself the tears.

 

Cheer up sents! Your weakish but your far far far far far from horrid.

 

P.S Force Cammo is soooo sooooooooooooooooo goooood.

[JediPraetorian]

I think the problem might be clicking, honestly.

 

We have just a frickin ton of buttons, and we have to use most of them. If people are mousing about and clicking to try to get that interrupt, oh back to rebuke, oops cauterize is off CD get that dot up swing back over to activate zen. Etc. It's just too much and the Valdis and Angral type fights where you HAVE to interrupt quickly just don't reward people who have to look for/mouse to/click their interrupt. I won't address pvp as I haven't touched it yet but I think clicking in PVP is generally regarded as suicide anyway.

 

I think that people who aren't hunting around for all their skills are probably the ones having more success with the JK. I'm having a blast and I enjoy the difficulty, but I also know that I have about 24 skills I can activate without having to mouse to them and click. People who click because they don't know better or because it's their preferred playstyle are at a disadvantage and this class is somewhat unforgiving of disadvantages.

 

I really think this is it. I was clicking and trying to use one action bar and found myself actually getting angry bc of all the looking around I was having to do. I have a cataclysm mouse that I macro'd into just key binds and just have all my actions bars as 1 to = and then the shift+ ctrl+ and alt+ and forced myself not to click and it has been smooth sailing. I use my periphial (sp) to watch cooldowns and procs and just mash the 14 buttons I have on my mouse. Is it anxiety casuing? Yes. Do I now have acces to every seingle ability and CD I have? Yes. If it was any other class I would probably have switched and never put forth the effort but I love me some Jedi and I study Ni Ten Ichi so it's Dual Wielding all the way.

[kernall]

I've been circle strafing with melee dps classes for over a decade. I've worked out a pretty tight set if sequences and keybinded appropriately in this game. I'm one of the top 5 ranked players on my server in another game currently.

 

I'm 42 Sent Combat currently with my live toon (not a fan of dot and control) and I've played several other classes in this game in several warfronts. in beta and live.

 

Oh. I wrecked Valdis at 23 with Kira.

 

Now. All that shows is the game is easy. Which it is. MMOs have been dumbed down more and more for years. The expectation has been set that all players should be able to access all material and be able to win all the time.

 

However in a PvP environment despite the attempts by the developers to the contrary SKILL can matter. In these settings the smallest balance differences can come to light

 

And it's my opinion. Just an opinion folks. That Sents and guards to SOME extent are naturally weaker than the other 3 core classes.

 

Melee dps in particular pure melee dps is almost always at an inherent disadvantage to ranged classes. Classes with kite mechanics. And classes with strong CC.

 

None of which are easily counterable or controllable by Sents.

 

IMHO our dps is NOT enough higher than other classes to compensate for one of the weakest CC skill sets, medium armour, and exceedingly limited range options. All under a mechanic that requires building UP rather than spending down.

 

Address any ONE of those issues and we may be overpowered. Bur those are the pain points leading to alot of our struggles.

 

Can someone L2P and be a better player with better results? Yes

Do we have the weakest class in the game under a lot of common situations? IMHO yes as well.

 

I just want to start of by saying like many others, I haven't had many issues in the PvE arena. My only real complaint is that to be efficient, you really need to have Doc with you. I can't speak for the other classes, but, I would like to efficiently choose between them, and we really can't.

 

Now, PvP is another critter altogether, and you spotted the larger issue right at the front end. We start with no resources and have to build up to them, while the other classes spend them down. In a sustained conflict, this would be okay, but, PvP is rarely a sustained fight. To complicate matters, we don't have any Focus(Or Centering) generation that works out of combat.

 

My biggest issue though is that this is a very complicated class to play. There are a wide variety of cool downs to manage, and that is unwieldy. A lot of people have identified the larger problem. A good Sentinel player will do good, but an average Sage will do equally as well with half the effort.

 

Also, why the eff isn't there a proper "stance" bar?

[verydanger]

Warzones are not much fun for Sentinels. You will normally be up against an enemy team consisting of 6 to 8 ranged classes - so there's very little you can do besides hoping to catch a straying enemy - your other choice is to leap into that pack of 5 sorcs and nudge someone's absorb shield before you are killed in a stunlock.

 

Okey, slight exaggeration, but not a huge one.

[EverlongAU]

Lvl 31 Sent here, enjoying the class but PvP can be a bit painful, especially if you get focused. The main things I would like to see changed for us is:

 

Macros: If I could combine 2-3 skills onto one hotkey (I'm a keybinder not a clicker) like slash, trinket, charge saber etc then I would be very happy little jedi.

 

Saber throw: This needs it's range doubled and the focus cost removed. Even put a cooldown on it if thats a bit too OP. At 10m range its nothing more than another melee skill. I played a Paladin in WoW and for a long time we didn't have a range pull/damage dealer and it was very frustrating.

 

CC breaker: forgot the name of skill This needs to be 1 minute, or have 5 secs of CC immunity attached to it when used. Popping it then getting cc'd 1 milisecond later makes the skill pretty redundant. For PvP it's almost getting to the point where combat would be the better option purely for the cc break with camo, at 45 secs cd.

 

Number one for me tho is the massive amount of keybinds I need. Hopefully macros will clear this up a bit, but at the moment there is too many skills that I have to put on my hotbar and make a bind for. Add that too cooldown management, focus management and centering management just make the class very cumbersome to deal with.

 

As for the class itself I'm having a blast. I enjoy the challenge that PvE offers in this game, as opposed to wow where i could carve through mass mobs and have very little health loss, here if I make one silly mistake or mistiming it means death This is my 5th mmo and so far, very enjoyable.

 

Oh and yes people we are a pure damage dealer so you being able to interupt on a short cooldown is one of your most valuable skills. Learn it, use it!

 

Oh and one more thing, why is pommel strike my hardest hitting ability? At my lvl it hits for 1000, crits for 1500. Storm is doing half that. We have spent a lifetime understanding and controlling the force yet my biggest damage dealer is smashing them in the teeth with the butt-end of my saber?

Edited December 30, 2011 by EverlongAU

[Uwel]

Truth, l2p? … lulz

 

Lot of people played/playing wow, i did too so its easier to describe what i think.

I had a warrior, and a rogue, my warrior was a tank(but did some bg with him (with other talent ofc)) and the rogue was the pvp char. It was all about „know your strengths and weaknesses”.

 

Do my warrior attacked a frost mage, or my rogue a paladin? Mostly not. Why? Because I knew, they shred me apart.

 

Not every class can compete effectively against every other(of course can if luck is on your side), but who cares? I dont. When I step into the „arena” I know I can be killed.

 

QQing is unnecessary. If you want to be the top dps in warzones roll an aoe class and pull 300k+ damage if that’s your supreme wish… If you want to enjoy the story, and have a little role-play affinity, choose the class that you enjoy playing.

 

I have a sentinel and a gunslinger. Do I enjoy playing gunslinger? So-so… In warzone i can pull the top dps,can kill mobs faster than lighting, and all that goodie, but didn’t really enjoy all the other things (Im much more like a Skywalker, than Han Solo ).

 

Do my sentinel works well? For me, yes. I don’t kill mobs as fast as a trooper, but this way i have more time to learn proper skill usage. But enjoy my own story. I can kill strong,elite mobs with ease. Yep it’s require some thinking before leaping, but I enjoy this. If there’s more than one stronger mob, we’ll kill the weakest then resurrect and kill the strong one. Takes 9-30-120 seconds to res… I dont care, i’m not in hurry.

 

And yes, it’s sad, but swtor isn’t designed to solo play (i mean you must have a companion)

 

„Every Star Wars™ hero needs a companion. Han had Chewie, Luke had R2-D2 — even Jabba had the cackling monkey lizard Salacious B. Crumb.”

why do i forced to use a companion!? thats the only thing that bugs me >.<

but for you, Dear OP, if your main concern is your dps at warzones, then roll a trooper.

 

My way or the highway…

 

Ps: i didn’t wanted to be bookish, these are only thoughts, and everyone can decide between thinking and qqing…

[Derian]

Its not a L2P issue. However, the class itself isn't complete garbage. It can only be considered garbage when you compare it to all of the other classes. As of this moment sentinels/marauder are the worst class in the game.

 

I am a level 50 sentinel with 4/5 pieces of the T2 PVP armor. Even though I have pretty good gear I am still getting out dpsed by tanks and healers. At the end of a warzone I will have about 100-125k damage while the other can have upwards of 250k damage.

 

I must admit though that Sentinels are prob the best 1v1 class. I rarely lose 1v1 and I always beat healers 1v1. Sometimes I am even able to handle 2v1. Now some of you guys might think that "WOW 2v1, HOW IS THAT CLASS GARBAGE!?" well ill tell you. The only way I can win 2v1 is if i pop all of my cooldowns. I need to use 4 Cooldowns that are 45 seconds or longer in order to be able to become good. Which entails the problem with the class. You also have to consider in these 2v1 situations im most likely not facing 2 level 50 opponents.

 

SENTINELS NEED THEIR COOLDOWNSs in order to be efficient while other classes can blast you away without using theirs. At the moment without those cooldowns sentinels are just too damn squishy.

 

Now, I wouldn't have a problem with being too squishy if not for the fact that I am constantly being out damaged by hybrid classes.

 

Another problem I noticed is that every other classes 360 aoe damage has some sort of CC with it. The sentinels force sweep does in fact stun mobs, however it does not stun players which makes it absolute trash. Other classes AOE knocks players back. OH! but wait not only does it knock you back but it also slows you and for others roots you in place. While sentinels does nothing but deal damage....

 

Either way the Sentinel/Marauder class needs some sort of buff.

 

LOL I was doing 150k at level 20 in WZs

[Zackath]

I dont wanna be ''THE NOT REALLY NICE DUDE'' but.. if you are having problem with the sentinel it is most likely that it's not the class that has a problem, it's YOU.

 

Now okay I must say that people are right, we're NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL with the other classes in term of DPS and play the most difficult class in this game: the melee DPS with priority rotation.

 

Just to tell you my experience as a sentinel: I completly destroy anything in 1v1 it is insane. In pvp (open world) I destroyed EVERY sith (including sith assassins that had the jump) and I never lost a fight..... and I'm not an hardcore pvper(althought I'm used to pvp) but I must also say that maybe the reason I was able to solo stuff in PVE so easily may be that I was a bit over leveled for the place... but still im wrecking champions mobs lol with 2 less level than me thats a feat for a melee class with a paper armor.

 

The class does need a couple tweaking.... im 42 and got all the abilities I need to do a raid priority rotation and I'm working on it while question on elites mobs (that I solo easily). The thing is I'm constantly watching my casting bar as I have to focus on watching my cooldowns or else my prirority rotation just completly FAIL and I either miss a so important Merciless strike, a master strike or a DOT. Maybe it's just me but eh I think i'll get used to it but i believe that if they would allow ADDONS.. I'd get one that keep track of my cooldowns in the middle or so of my screen because otherwise I don't see anything else than a casting bar, my HP, my opponents hp.

 

TL;DR

 

The class isnt THAT bad, L2P althought it DOES NEED A BUFF to be on the same level than other classes.

[devilinhell]

Though I will admit I have noticed some of the tendency to primary "two lightsabers" and I try to keep my blades sheathed until I'm actually fighting, heh.

 

Haha, it's missing little tips like these, that you might only read in one place on the entire internet, that make me paranoid about not reading page after page of posts.

[FobManX]

I've had no difficulty issues whatsoever in PVE. Anyone who has had issues needs to pay attention because this is not a faceroll class and some of the class quest bosses actually require you to know how to play half decently, but if you do then like I said you'll have no issues. I'm level 39 so I can say I've had some experience. People say 40+ is harder but then again, people said 20-30 was hard and 30-40 was hard and it never was.

 

PVP...I'm inconsistent in PVP. Sometimes I do well, other times I struggle. Honestly I'm not really a PVP expert by any means so I can't really judge the class on PVP. Usually when I'm on a good team with decent support I'll do well, like top 3-5 in damage(think my highest so far has been 2nd overall, 1st on my team, damn Sorcerers and Mercenaries always beat me!).

[necrotura]

i am not trying to flex my e-peen but at lvl 12 (watchman) i did 110K dmg in a warzone

 

but most of the time if i am stupid enough/get people going out of their way to come attack me 3v1 then sentinel is a bad class

 

infact any person getting 3v1 (or more) and think the class is crappy is kidding them self

 

some warzones i get 110K dmg (at lvl 12) and some warzones im only at 50k (also lvl 12)

 

 

is depends if the sith are pathetic enough to 3v1 me every time i leave the re-spawn area

 

but at lvl 10 pvp was like pulling teeth and looked on forum to see if we get better

 

 

ill see if i can find the screenie of the warzone to prove it

 

 

 

P.S i am a clicker allways have been, all ways will be

 

so its not a clicker thing

 

i think it maybe situational - people rushing into that group of 5 sorc all lvl 50 and wondering why they did not get a kill

[Fword]

Macros: If I could combine 2-3 skills onto one hotkey (I'm a keybinder not a clicker) like slash, trinket, charge saber etc then I would be very happy little jedi.

 

Completely agree.

 

Saber throw: This needs it's range doubled and the focus cost removed. Even put a cooldown on it if thats a bit too OP. At 10m range its nothing more than another melee skill. I played a Paladin in WoW and for a long time we didn't have a range pull/damage dealer and it was very frustrating.

 

I also think the range needs to be increased, but maybe not doubled. Last I herd Blade Storm was not a force skill. Changing that would make us focus tree users happy. Again I may be mistaken on that.

 

CC breaker: forgot the name of skill This needs to be 1 minute, or have 5 secs of CC immunity attached to it when used. Popping it then getting cc'd 1 milisecond later makes the skill pretty redundant. For PvP it's almost getting to the point where combat would be the better option purely for the cc break with camo, at 45 secs cd.

 

This is where I really disagree with you. The difference between good pvp'ers and the not so good is knowing when to use cooldowns. Fact is if you are out numbered and you are the focus victim, you are more than likely going to die. Just be glad they gave you a skill and you didnt have to buy a trinket.

[MasterKai]

Nah. What tree did you put your points into?

 

I'll tell you this, I went down the Focus tree (supposed PvP) but was having a hard time during WZ, dunno if I went for the wrong stats etc. I choose Crit as my secondary stat as according to the tooltop STR is supposed to boost all melee and force damage. Yet Power as a secondary stat seemed to boost my damage way more than crit and surge and so on, which made me go huh?

 

I had to work hard in WZ to deal out 150k damage as a lvl 40 Focus sentinel.

 

I'm currently lvl 42 and while I'm still one point away from Merciless Slash, I can now deal out +200k damage with ease and tend to be a top damage dealer during WZ. The number will go up and down, mind you, depending on your opponent and if they're premade, target you etc, but the point is I'm having way more fun as Watchman. At least my STR + Crit build is finally starting to shine due to all those burns (who also heal you).

 

When I went down the Focus path my build was just wrong (or it seemed so) as Power seemed to be a better secondary stat than crit.

 

Point being, the game is brand new, there is plenty to learn, but I'm sure you'll figure it out. But sentinels are NOT broken. Just harder to master/figure out than other classes. Or that's what I'm being told. Yet, it's all pretty noob friendly compared to hardcore MMOs so there really isn't a reason to QQ at all.

 

Give it some time!

 

This. This exactly.

 

Level 44 Watchman Specced Sentinel. With Doc at my back I can utterly slaughter Elites without losing a quarter of my health bar. In PvP I consistently deal out high amounts of damage with repeated burns to keep my health up a bit and Merciless Slash just mauls through people's health (And having a lot of Crit stuck to my gear makes it even better).