KOTFE just not worth the grind

[samhinch]

So I've put 4 toons both republic and empire through the new expansion. Honestly I can't even force myself to remotely care about the story.

 

I'm tired of koth being whiny. I'm tired of only flirting with Lana never getting any further. I'm irritated I can't romance Senya. I absolutely hate Theron Shan, why couldn't I kill him? In fact Why can't I kill more characters instead of being forced to recruit them?

 

BW you really let me down with the big sale of focusing on story, and the woefully inadequate delivery. I'm just disappointed. I think I will return after all the other chapters drop. I don't get tired of things easily but honestly I'm officially tired of this game.

 

Can someone tell me if this game will get better?

[LogunOne]

Depends on what you consider better? … what do you want to do? … you did start playing the most story driven MMO of all time….LOL

 

Have you completed all the planet quest, leveled all 8 classes?

Have you unlocked all your companions?

Maxed out all companion affection?

Are you in 220 or 224 gear?

Have you maxed out all your planetary factions?

How about guild conquests / personal conquests?

Have you maxed your crafting? Are you making 220 gear?

Have you completed all the exploration quests?

Max out your 4 outposts?

How about saving for your very own capital ship?

Edited December 14, 2015 by LogunOne

[ekwalizer]

Depends on what you consider better? … what do you want to do? … you did start playing the most story driven MMO of all time….LOL

 

Have you completed all the planet quest, leveled all 8 classes?

Have you unlocked all your companions?

Maxed out all companion affection?

Are you in 220 or 224 gear?

Have you maxed out all your planetary factions?

How about guild conquests / personal conquests?

Have you maxed your crafting? Are you making 220 gear?

Have you completed all the exploration quests?

Max out your 4 outposts?

How about saving for your very own capital ship?

 

I can answer yes to all of the above to include having my own guild ship.

 

The OPs point remains valid. Among my chief complaints (just like with SoR) is that I must complete the canned story to do anything at level 65 other than raid/pvp. With SoR, we had to complete the story to access the dailies. Here we must complete the story to get access to any of the alliance fluff.

 

This story really only goes one way, with very minor discrepancies between options; just like Makeb (ok, 2 ways but really only one outcome), just like Oricon, just like SoR - so this "return to story" narrative or "story driven MMO" concept is laughable at best. That is what makes its "repeatability" fall short.

 

With the vanilla game we had eight stories to choose from and keep us entertained while grinding alts. But at level 50, we had access to every level 50 daily mission regardless of where we left our stories. Yes, the side quests sucked after about 2-3 toons per side - but this entire story starts to suck after the first play through. That is the OPs point.

 

While we are free to level pretty much any way we can think up, we cannot participate in Odessen "content" without finishing the story. Without spacebar smashing it takes about 6-8 hours to go from start to finish in KotFE.

 

I have no interest in grinding out alliance rep across thirty or so level 60+ characters. But I would like to be able to run the dailies on as many toons as I might choose to do them on.

Edited December 14, 2015 by ekwalizer

[DarthDymond]

At this point, the story is the heart of the product they are selling. If it's not appealing to you, then no, this game is probably not a good match for you. The only exception to that would be if you are brand new to the game and might enjoy all of the level 1-60 stuff.

[Eillack]

At this point, the story is the heart of the product they are selling. If it's not appealing to you, then no, this game is probably not a good match for you. The only exception to that would be if you are brand new to the game and might enjoy all of the level 1-60 stuff.

 

Repeating the same old heroics and the cut & paste SFs....are not story.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Eillack

[DarthDymond]

Repeating the same old heroics and the cut & paste SFs....are not story.

They are neither the heart of the current product (the story chapters are), nor are they likely to be appealing enough (IMO) on their own to carry someone's interest... that was my point.

 

If someone's going to be into this game at this point, then most likely it'll either be because the KotFE story (not the Heroic or SFs) is grabbing them or because the 1-60 game is still new to them and appealing - the post-60 grind isn't going to hook anyone by itself.

Edited December 14, 2015 by DarthDymond

[Frenesi]

They are neither the heart of the current product (the story chapters are), nor are they likely to be appealing enough (IMO) on their own to carry someone's interest... that was my point.

 

If someone's going to be into this game at this point, then most likely it'll either be because the KotFE story (not the Heroic or SFs) is grabbing them or because the 1-60 game is still new to them and appealing - the post-60 grind isn't going to hook anyone by itself.

 

Then what is the heart of the current product? 2 hours of cutscenes per month? I believe such product belongs on TV

Edited December 14, 2015 by Frenesi

[Colow_Leper]

I agree with the OP.

 

Basically I'm grinding to get my characters back to a level to be able to do HM ops again - I've done 4.0 2 1/2 times (lost the will on the third time through).

 

I'm pretty much ignoring 4.0.

[LogunOne]

I can answer yes to all of the above to include having my own guild ship.

 

The OPs point remains valid. Among my chief complaints (just like with SoR) is that I must complete the canned story to do anything at level 65 other than raid/pvp. With SoR, we had to complete the story to access the dailies. Here we must complete the story to get access to any of the alliance fluff.

 

This story really only goes one way, with very minor discrepancies between options; just like Makeb (ok, 2 ways but really only one outcome), just like Oricon, just like SoR - so this "return to story" narrative or "story driven MMO" concept is laughable at best. That is what makes its "repeatability" fall short.

 

With the vanilla game we had eight stories to choose from and keep us entertained while grinding alts. But at level 50, we had access to every level 50 daily mission regardless of where we left our stories. Yes, the side quests sucked after about 2-3 toons per side - but this entire story starts to suck after the first play through. That is the OPs point.

 

While we are free to level pretty much any way we can think up, we cannot participate in Odessen "content" without finishing the story. Without spacebar smashing it takes about 6-8 hours to go from start to finish in KotFE.

 

I have no interest in grinding out alliance rep across thirty or so level 60+ characters. But I would like to be able to run the dailies on as many toons as I might choose to do them on.

 

There is no possible way they could make the story infinity re-playable, and you are not seeing the long term consequences of your decisions that will have impact on the outcome in chapter 10 and beyond.

 

If you don't want to do the story with all your toons then don't, I suspect you'll just hit the play button to catch up any toons you didn't run through chapters 1 to 9 (Notice Chapter 10 starts with a Play button) But really for an MMO is a 6 or 8 run through a story to unlock content that big a deal ....we invest 1000 of hours into these game ....LOL Bioware how dare you put a story roadblock in your game ....hehe

 

I have a feeling Bioware is constructing their stories like this because at the end of the day its still an MMO and without a critical mass of players focused on endgame your traditional MMO endgame fails.

 

The problem with the vanilla design of the game is it entices players to level to max and then start a different toon and do this over and over with many just burning out on the game before they ever bother with the elder game content.

 

The new story is more focused and not class based will collect the community at max level where they need you to be to make larger group elder game and pvp viable again.

 

My guess is with chapter 10 we will see a number of new OP's and perhaps a total revamp of PvP adding a 3rd alliance faction.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

 

My point to the op simply was that not even a single player RPG can stand on its story alone and their are many other challenges and systems the game offers beyond the story ..... but as you claim, if you've done all that and bought the farm twice then maybe its time to take a break

[GalacticKegger]

The problem with the vanilla design of the game is it entices players to level to max and then start a different toon and do this over and over with many just burning out on the game before they ever bother with the elder game content.

How many casuals actually focus on end game? How many guilds have dozens of players but have a hard time fielding Ops teams? Or Conquest parties? Judging by the operations GF queue times and the insignificant number of GF L2P complaints there are a lot of casuals who want little more than a taste of true end game, if at all.

 

If MMO casuals are even close to 50% of the core SWTOR player base then Bioware was stupid (imho) for trashing the level appropriate vanilla design system in favor of a KOTOR 3 wannabe. Because that's half the player population who play SWTOR for a moderately challenging alt progression game. This game gave birth to the term "altoholic." I'm guessing that is why Bioware bumped the character slot capacity all the way up to 40 ... just in case. Yet they killed a moderately challenging alt progression early game by making it one size fits all. That's insulting to Star Wars fans who like choice in their actions, and action with their story.

 

I really wonder how many of those who lamented that SWTOR wasn't KOTOR have actually played KOTOR.

 

The many (as you assume) who burned out on the vanilla design were likely MMO vagabonds. Every MMO has them. They should not be what a AAA MMORPG developer builds their game around. Placating the vocal minority nearly killed this game before it got off the ground. Did they not learn?

Edited December 15, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[FerkWork]

My guess is with chapter 10 we will see a number of new OP's and perhaps a total revamp of PvP adding a 3rd alliance faction.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

 

I guess you didn't read Eric's post

[ekwalizer]

At this point, the story is the heart of the product they are selling. If it's not appealing to you, then no, this game is probably not a good match for you. The only exception to that would be if you are brand new to the game and might enjoy all of the level 1-60 stuff.

 

Many of us were here long before day-1 and were perfectly happy with the product they *were* selling. Pandering to transient casuals is a p!ss pour business model.

[MrLaku]

My guess is with chapter 10 we will see a number of new OP's and perhaps a total revamp of PvP adding a 3rd alliance faction.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

 

My guess is they'll have fire breathing unicorns and ****.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

[DarthDymond]

Many of us were here long before day-1 and were perfectly happy with the product they *were* selling. Pandering to transient casuals is a p!ss pour business model.

Yeah, there is no doubt that a good number of people got burned by the reorientation. What this game is offering now isn't everyone's cup of tea, and I sure don't blame any fans of the more traditional MMO model who are taking their business elsewhere as a result.

 

This game is providing content that I personally enjoy, but whether there are enough people who enjoy it (and are willing to pay the price they're asking for it) to make it a viable model, that remains to be seen.

[ekwalizer]

There is no possible way they could make the story infinity re-playable, and you are not seeing the long term consequences of your decisions that will have impact on the outcome in chapter 10 and beyond.

 

I have made the same case many times. No studio can produce content at the rate at which players will consume it. But two new raids (released together and both bug-ridden) over the course of two years is UNSAT.

 

If you don't want to do the story with all your toons then don't, I suspect you'll just hit the play button to catch up any toons you didn't run through chapters 1 to 9 (Notice Chapter 10 starts with a Play button) But really for an MMO is a 6 or 8 run through a story to unlock content that big a deal ....we invest 1000 of hours into these game ....LOL Bioware how dare you put a story roadblock in your game ....hehe

 

The point is, you shouldn't have to do the story to access the repeatable content. Is it really asking that much to code in a check to see if you have done KotFE on an Imp toon and a Pub toon? If yes, you are clear to proceed without it. Furthermore, any character *not* complete with chapter 9 will NOT get the "Play" button for chapter 10.

 

I have a feeling Bioware is constructing their stories like this because at the end of the day its still an MMO and without a critical mass of players focused on endgame your traditional MMO endgame fails.

 

If that is the case, why completely ignore end-game for over a year now. That's right, over a year. On top of that, they just let one of their Raid developers go to another project. Losing raid staff doesn't imply forthcoming raids.

 

The problem with the vanilla design of the game is it entices players to level to max and then start a different toon and do this over and over with many just burning out on the game before they ever bother with the elder game content.

 

It didn't entice, it provided an option to do so. A segment of players stick to a "main main", another segment "alt hop" based on the needs of their group, another segment is just here for the stories. And so on and so forth.

 

The new story is more focused and not class based will collect the community at max level where they need you to be to make larger group elder game and pvp viable again.

 

How is this any different than vanilla? People were still collected at the fleet, grouped up and did content. I suppose the difference is there is no new content to do now. In reality all they have done is knock us back down to 45, and make us grind back to 50 ... just so we could do the content we had already been doing for nearly 4 years.

 

I was fine with that as a stop-gap. As of last week we know that there will be no new raid at least through February. So what that gives is is exactly 2 raids (Rav/ToS) released between October 2013 (DF/DP) and sometime after February 2016 (future raid).

 

My guess is with chapter 10 we will see a number of new OP's and perhaps a total revamp of PvP adding a 3rd alliance faction.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

 

Chapter 10 will have zero new ops or PvP. That is directly from EM.

 

My point to the op simply was that not even a single player RPG can stand on its story alone and their are many other challenges and systems the game offers beyond the story ..... but as you claim, if you've done all that and bought the farm twice then maybe its time to take a break

 

I fully understood your point to the OP, my point to you was that his complaint is valid. I had no interest, whatsoever, in taking a break from the game until Bioware broke their promise to never go a year without a new raid again. This speaks directly to their trustworthiness. That kind of irked me, but ok I can deal with that. I was a little irritated by the HK-55 gimmick. They killed him, they made the decision to do that (decisions matter right? wasn't that a big selling point?). Yet they reverse it based on forum nerd-rage. Then they tie him into an eight month subscription gimmick. Here's the thing, if a product is in demand - no gimmick is required. So this focus on story has already proven to be a mistake. But for me the final straw was the ridiculous statement about 224 gear being a percent chance drop in NiM but being a guaranteed drop in the featured HM for the week. I'm just no longer willing to financially contribute to Bioware's current level of stupidity. As we speak I am awaiting my time to expire.

[GalacticKegger]

Many of us were here long before day-1 and were perfectly happy with the product they *were* selling. Pandering to transient casuals is a p!ss pour business model.

As much as Bioware will put on their happy pragmatic face while denying it, EA has them by the balls. As I'm sure Disney has EA by the IP balls. But EA did the same thing to Westwood Studios, shutting down Earth & Beyond after, like ... 2 years. E&B was actually way ahead of its time, fun as hell to play and stable when it got axed. This whole thing is a shame. Just a damn shame. Edited December 15, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[GalacticKegger]

How is this any different than vanilla?

Forced game play style. A casual player base who enjoyed level appropriate gameplay through planets and heroics ... who looked forward to working through level appropriate flashpoints between every planet as a right of passage ... who looked forward to working through level appropriate HMs as a large part of their end game ... who looked forward to gearing themselves and their companions similarly to their end game counterparts throughout the entire journey ... who used level appropriateness to fuel and calibrate their entire leveling progression ... no longer have any of that.

 

They. Got. Screwed.

 

On size fits all level syncing, immortal Jeezus Droid solo modes, tactical clusterf***s (that barely work as intended for even the high level characters) and dress-up doll companions took their progression play style choice away from them. What's left is a silver spoon-fed, speed-leveling shell of a MMORPG they once endeared themselves to. WoW players perusing these forums with the hope that SWTOR was different have to be laughing their asses off.

 

Those who would castigate others for merely wanting their progression game play style back (as an option mind you) with chants of L2P need to put those limp leet peens back in their pants. Which may or may not be as entertaining as watching those whose game play was destroyed by this expansion leave for another game.

Edited December 15, 2015 by GalacticKegger

[wmst]

My guess is with chapter 10 we will see a number of new OP's and perhaps a total revamp of PvP adding a 3rd alliance faction.....just a guess but if it come true ...you heard it here first.

 

Riiiiiiiight. Almost fell off the chair after the part about total revamp of PVP by February 11th A man can dream i guess...

[LogunOne]

I have made the same case many times. No studio can produce content at the rate at which players will consume it. But two new raids (released together and both bug-ridden) over the course of two years is UNSAT.

 

Perhaps but Bioware would have to be nuts not to react to the way players are playing the game. If you spend 20 hours a week in the game levelling 22 alts and 5 hours a week ruining Operations what message are you sending to the developers team .... they're tell the team we are enjoying the story so lets make more of that.

 

The point is, you shouldn't have to do the story to access the repeatable content. Is it really asking that much to code in a check to see if you have done KotFE on an Imp toon and a Pub toon? If yes, you are clear to proceed without it. Furthermore, any character *not* complete with chapter 9 will NOT get the "Play" button for chapter 10.

 

And if I don't want to do Operations I should still be able to get the best gear in the game. That's been the cry of casual or more solo orientated players for years in MMO's and they've been told to blow it out there poodoo .... the main tenant of this game has been the story. Is a 8 hour run through a story all that a big a deal

 

If that is the case, why completely ignore end-game for over a year now. That's right, over a year. On top of that, they just let one of their Raid developers go to another project. Losing raid staff doesn't imply forthcoming raids.

 

Lets just call it elder game and from a set of fresh eyes returning to the game to me it has a ton of elder game. It's not all in the form of Operations but their is and elder game for everyone and not just for the top percentage of players in raiding guild. Anything you can continue beyond the conclusion of the levelling game I would consider elder game. Elder game is just the net you put in place to catch players in between content patches. The alliances system, unlocking companions, Planet factions, Weeklys, Daylies, HM-2's, Ops, flashpoints it's all eldergame with paths to the top 3 tiers of gear progression.

 

It didn't entice, it provided an option to do so. A segment of players stick to a "main main", another segment "alt hop" based on the needs of their group, another segment is just here for the stories. And so on and so forth.

 

Having the vanilla game offer 8 very intriguing class story has totally had an impact on how players play this game. They made a game that was fun to level in (for the most part) and made it even better now with the more streamlined levelling pace that works with the story driven nature of this game. Now that you can hide and ignore the “go kill ten rats” crap the levelling experience is allot more fun.

 

How is this any different than vanilla? People were still collected at the fleet, grouped up and did content. I suppose the difference is there is no new content to do now. In reality all they have done is knock us back down to 45, and make us grind back to 50 ... just so we could do the content we had already been doing for nearly 4 years.

 

For same reason your complaining about the story requirements, because its a single non individual class experience people are inclined to level their one or two mains and then move on to a more traditional elder game experience.

 

I was fine with that as a stop-gap. As of last week we know that there will be no new raid at least through February. So what that gives is is exactly 2 raids (Rav/ToS) released between October 2013 (DF/DP) and sometime after February 2016 (future raid).

 

What they have to do is entice more people back to the game. I'm prof that on some level this expansion worked at that. To the veteran player it may seem less appealing but I think for the overall health of the game what they added and revamped in this expansion was necessary to entice new and old players back into the game.

 

I fully understood your point to the OP, my point to you was that his complaint is valid. I had no interest, whatsoever, in taking a break from the game until Bioware broke their promise to never go a year without a new raid again. This speaks directly to their trustworthiness. That kind of irked me, but ok I can deal with that. I was a little irritated by the HK-55 gimmick. They killed him, they made the decision to do that (decisions matter right? wasn't that a big selling point?). Yet they reverse it based on forum nerd-rage. Then they tie him into an eight month subscription gimmick. Here's the thing, if a product is in demand - no gimmick is required. So this focus on story has already proven to be a mistake. But for me the final straw was the ridiculous statement about 224 gear being a percent chance drop in NiM but being a guaranteed drop in the featured HM for the week. I'm just no longer willing to financially contribute to Bioware's current level of stupidity. As we speak I am awaiting my time to expire.

 

I don't think his complaint was about a lack of raiding, his complaint was bioware sold him on story and he felt it KOTFE under delivered and introduced more grind. I just pointed out that a game like this can't stand 100% totaly on story. On your other points ... Yes Bioware has been sloppy, Yes they are now resorting to gimmicks, Yes they are slow to react to obverse bugs and standing on them like its intended. Despite all that from a New or Returning player experience there have been vast improvements to the game that fall in the shadow of the above mentioned miss steps ..... all I'm sayn!

[JouerTue]

nah now it's bad. just speed level to 65 to build your alliance, choices have zero impacts, companions are worse than before, the new ones from SF have zero appeal.

at least design different SFs lol.

devs are ignoring pvp since 2 years, now they are giving the final hits to raiders.

once the last leave nobody will be able to do even HM beside EV/KP, look at zero pugs of EC, rav, tos, DF/DP hm, let alone players capable to clear the ninja removed nim.

 

i can't imagine how they thought people would stay 8 months subbed for one hour gameplay with HK..HK lol i've 51 from ages and 55 is no different, especially now that they are all the same..HK healer..horrible.

 

and considering how the casuals they try to cather at full effort are not the most constant subscribers i'm sure, it's just a fail business model.

 

i know that raids are the most expensive content resourcewise, and that pvpers generate no big income, but that is the core of repeatable content that keeps people entertained constantly during a sub, solid content to buid guilds around and keeping players subbed..not chapters..not the alliance system. vanilla 1-60 is still a lot better. even rishi joke class arc is better than any kofte chapter.

 

killing the MMO part is a mistake. the game is already an infinite chain of instanced, solo, retarded content, with around random planets from a dead past.

[TarkaBear]

I

 

This story really only goes one way, with very minor discrepancies between options; just like Makeb (ok, 2 ways but really only one outcome), just like Oricon, just like SoR - so this "return to story" narrative or "story driven MMO" concept is laughable at best. That is what makes its "repeatability" fall short.

 

.

 

What annoys me with the marketing about 'story'. is that Kotfe is really just the Jedi Knight's personal story. Every other class just got sucked into pretending to be the JK for this expansion.

 

It would've been AWESOME if all 8 classes had their own Kotfe storyline, like the original game. (smugglers shouldn't be doing the same thing as a jedi knight. )

 

Then they could've said it was all about story.

 

Now its all just about 1 story. Theirs. Not our classes.

 

Unless you're a Jedi Knight.

[Sarfux]

I was under the impression that we would get more story and the chapters a little faster than what we are getting. I think this is going a tad slow here tbh. I'm not eagerly awaiting new story though. I have my own things I do in the game. Would be nice for more story though a little more often. If they were going to back to their roots and doing story, they should have done all 8 classes with their own separate story. Just go all out. I understand budget concerns though or not enough people though Edited December 15, 2015 by Sarfux

[cipidani]

nah now it's bad. just speed level to 65 to build your alliance, choices have zero impacts, companions are worse than before, the new ones from SF have zero appeal.

at least design different SFs lol.

devs are ignoring pvp since 2 years, now they are giving the final hits to raiders.

once the last leave nobody will be able to do even HM beside EV/KP, look at zero pugs of EC, rav, tos, DF/DP hm, let alone players capable to clear the ninja removed nim.

 

i can't imagine how they thought people would stay 8 months subbed for one hour gameplay with HK..HK lol i've 51 from ages and 55 is no different, especially now that they are all the same..HK healer..horrible.

 

and considering how the casuals they try to cather at full effort are not the most constant subscribers i'm sure, it's just a fail business model.

 

i know that raids are the most expensive content resourcewise, and that pvpers generate no big income, but that is the core of repeatable content that keeps people entertained constantly during a sub, solid content to buid guilds around and keeping players subbed..not chapters..not the alliance system. vanilla 1-60 is still a lot better. even rishi joke class arc is better than any kofte chapter.

 

killing the MMO part is a mistake. the game is already an infinite chain of instanced, solo, retarded content, with around random planets from a dead past.

 

I share your point! Too much desert around in the game...

[VegasTheLost]

It would've been AWESOME if all 8 classes had their own Kotfe storyline, like the original game. (smugglers shouldn't be doing the same thing as a jedi knight. )

 

Spot on. I can't speak for everyone and I won't, but this way KotFE would be more appealing. Personally I only did KotFE with 1 toon and I don't have any intention to do it with more. Not because I loose stuff, but because there is no character growth at all. We get 1 generic story and that's it. This is cheap. This is just an xpac to have an xpac so BW can get revenue.

 

Just imagine the possibilities if we had 1 class story per month for all 8 classes! Now there would be a reason for me to finish my JK, Trooper and Smuggler story. Now they just shelved at around lvl 40 something. It does however requires work from BW but in return there would be more revenue for them. I would be more than happy to stay a sub. KotFE is just a HUGE missed opportunity for them to get away with sloppy work easy.

[Quraswren]

So I've put 4 toons both republic and empire through the new expansion. Honestly I can't even force myself to remotely care about the story.

 

I'm tired of koth being whiny. I'm tired of only flirting with Lana never getting any further. I'm irritated I can't romance Senya. I absolutely hate Theron Shan, why couldn't I kill him? In fact Why can't I kill more characters instead of being forced to recruit them?

 

BW you really let me down with the big sale of focusing on story, and the woefully inadequate delivery. I'm just disappointed. I think I will return after all the other chapters drop. I don't get tired of things easily but honestly I'm officially tired of this game.

 

Can someone tell me if this game will get better?

 

Sadly it does not get better.

 

The short story was good and you actually did better than me. I made it through the story three times (the third time was a mistake) before I realized it wasn't worth doing again. Might as well keep the companions I got and just level up doing yavin till 61 then heroics so I could feed the lockboxes to one toon.

 

But overall the game does not get better once the story is done. You'll run Star fortress till your sick of it and that happens fast. Decent fora few times but thats about it.

 

Then it's on to the new 250k companion grind because the original grind to 10K just wasn't "grindy" enough plus, they throw about 22 companions at you as if you'd care.

 

On top of the new companion grind, you get an alliance grind as well. Another grind that doesn't really do anything for you nor really drive the story. You think you're doing it for the story but you'll finish it and it's about as anticlimactic as you can get.

 

Then it's on to grinding 4 year old content that been around since launch (heroics) but if that wasn't bad enough, BW added in a down leveling system. So that pretty much sucks while grind out those heroics you have been doing for so long.

 

Then just when you realize how bad those heroics are, you might try FP and OPS. Well those are really old too. Well past their lifespan. So once again you'll find yourself with nothing new.

 

But maybe you like PVP. Well sadly that hasn't seen anything new in about 2 years. So don't get your hopes up there.

 

This is an expansion for people that have never been in SWTOR and it's made especially painful once the story is done. If you have been in SWTOR a while, seen the story. The rest is a battle for that can be the most mediocre.

 

You'll complete a good story and then realize why this game is not doing as well as it should and after all that, I forgot to mention that BW's player retention systems are just atrocious to boot.