Item Stack Resale Exploit

[Infernixx]

Are GTN prices going down yet or are they still stupidly high(15mil+ for Hypercrates, etc etc etc)

[sentientomega]

No, you can't. You used to be able to, but they removed that feature.

 

What feature, travelling to Odessen the moment you get a ship?

 

What happens if you try to go to Odessen as a lowbie?

 

NB: I don't have anyone below level 58, so I'm not really in a position to experiment.

Edited December 15, 2015 by sentientomega

[XiamaraSimi]

Are GTN prices going down yet or are they still stupidly high(15mil+ for Hypercrates, etc etc etc)

 

Market seems to be fluctuating, some things are still super high, but crates went from 16m to 10m last i checked, we will probably have to wait a bit longer for it to stabilize once they get don shaking all the rotten fruit out of the tree.

 

As for all the money posts, im guessing they had set thresholds for flagging, IE:

 

◆ Account has X amount of credits, all above X cursory amount checked for timeline of excess amount

◆ Account has X amount if Y item, flagged for cursory check

 

Now as stated, i have had on my banker char around 100m for months, id have plenty more but i have a serious deco habit... 10m for that OPs rancor deco? Sold! Underlurker? Put it on my Tab! Ancient Rakata Beast? 4 please, one for each SH!

 

I didnt get flagged or suspended, but then i knew not to touch those fishy items on the GTN

Edited December 15, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Theeko]

Market seems to be fluctuating, some things are still super high, but crates went from 16m to 10m last i checked, we will probably have to wait a bit longer for it to stabilize once they get don shaking all the rotten fruit out of the tree.

 

I believe even before 4.0 the hypercrates were selling for 10-15 as well

Edited December 15, 2015 by Theeko

[XiamaraSimi]

I believe even before 4.0 the hypercrates were selling for 10-15 as well

 

Not for the newest packs. Embargoed ones? Yeah i can see gougers tossing them up for those prices (not that id pay them) But the pack that just came out a week ago for 16m? Nope!

Edited December 15, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I told him I was the one listing them, but I used my credits which I have obtained before 4.0 to get them I did not make them?

 

Assuming you got the same email other people got I think it's pretty obvious why you were banned ... are you really trying to claim innocence now? Play the "I didn't know there was an exploit" card whilst you bought up and relisted page upon page of the same exploited goods posted on places like reddit to which I believe, as Khevar pointed out, you are part of?

[MeNaCe-NZ]

So you'd rather they be overzealous and punish innocent people rather than take a bit more time vetting out what was actually going on and trying to catch the actual exploiters? Keep in mind that a (legit, not-exploiting customer) isn't going to stick around if they're accused of something(s) they didn't do.

 

I think cheaters are bullsh!!! but it's not fair to punish people who didn't do anything wrong. To use an example:

 

 

First I'm not going into real world examples, they have no bearing on what's going on here - this is not the real world.

 

I never said they should punish innocent people. I'm saying if they are a side effect of trying to fix the economy then so be it. If they are innocent they can put their case forward and I would hope Bioware are giving outcompensation as they have done in the past ( I believe a free weeks sub has been the norm ).

 

 

They didn't have customer service in place, that's exactly my point. The email wasn't valid against my account because I didn't buy or sell stacks of ANYTHING. If there was an online log of things bought and sold that I had access to, I'd super-happily expose it, because I can't see that I did ANYTHING wrong to get even a "warning" email. But keep in mind, I didn't just get a "warning" email - I got suspended.

 

Well if you managed to get to the management level I would have personally wanted to know exactly how you got caught up in it for your own sake as well as being able to share it with others.

 

What did they gauge your activity on that they then managed to label you a cheat?

Only really you can go back to them to get this information ( or anyone else in the same scenario ) - from there it helps further discussion etc. on what the root issue is that is having innocent people caught out and look to solving it for them ( because if you go over the history of the forums the majority of issues are solved by the users not the developers, they're just the people who get to code it and even then they miss the majority of common sense fixes/improvements ).

 

 

The unlocks I sold were 2 level 60 boosts that yes, I bought on the Cartel Market (and had to hold for 2 days, I might add, because you can't just immediately sell **** you get off the Cartel Market).

 

Again, this is my point - they cast a very wide area net without actually checking them out. Then, when I sent in multiple emails PLEADING with them to check, they kept basically putting their fingers in their ears going "LALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU YOU'RE GUILTY WE SAID SO!"

 

OK This is funny - apparently they're still getting my pleading emails, because as I'm writing this, I just got this :

 

 

 

 

It seems like they took the "shoot first, apologize later" approach. Not always the best for customer service. Also, keep in mind, it's easy for you to say what you're saying because you weren't the one banned/suspended unfairly. Like I said, I was like you - I pretty much figured anyone who got banned in games usually deserved it - and I still do to some extent - but only when they actually try to narrow their search rather than just start pulling the trigger left and right.

 

Edit-edit: I'm not bitter, by the way. I would have been had it not been recognized that this wasn't valid, but I'm not now. I appreciate that they took a look through the account and took care of me. I hope that they do the same for every claim of "I'M INNOCENT!"

 

I too would apply a shoot first ask questions later approach but then I would have much better metrics in place on any auto action than to catch someone who might have only sold a couple of unlocks.

 

It sounds like they are applying a filter that basically look at your account activity in terms of credits earned on average over the active life of it ( let's be honest that's probably too smart for them - they wouldn't think to exclude periods of unsub or inactivity ) and compare that to what you did in the past 6 weeks. If you have earned over X amount and the % increase is over X% then auto ban and flag for review for credit removal etc.

 

Pretty stupid blanket rule for auto ban if so ... at the very least they should have something in there to say "Did user purchase X item with real credits" and you can get far smarter from there - ( what did they sell to make credits, were those items X% higher than their usual average which would identify launderers etc. ).

 

To be honest we can never expect a smart approach from Bioware on this issue. Look at the fact they left this going for 6 weeks and the stupid approach they are taking to the future of this game ( which like or hate the focus on story/solo play the way they are doing it is a stupid business model ) - I just hope they can do whatever they can to remedy the economy as much as possible and spend the time required recompensing those caught up that shouldn't have been.

 

It's a shame you got caught up in this but what pisses me off more is another poster in this thread who got suspended for selling items and in their case they clearly and knowingly were taking advantage of the exploited stacks of items yet are trying to profess their innocence which has the negative effect of taking away the spotlight from actual innocent affected players such as yourself.

[Theeko]

Assuming you got the same email other people got I think it's pretty obvious why you were banned ... are you really trying to claim innocence now? Play the "I didn't know there was an exploit" card whilst you bought up and relisted page upon page of the same exploited goods posted on places like reddit to which I believe, as Khevar pointed out, you are part of?

 

It was an auto suspension, I didn't get banned and they said that GTN is fair game I did nothing wrong nothing to prove anymore sorry. Also if someone was truly banned I doubt they would get the chance to get the account back right?

Edited December 15, 2015 by Theeko

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It was an auto suspension, I didn't get banned and they said that GTN is fair game I did nothing wrong nothing to prove anymore sorry. Also if someone was truly banned I doubt they would get the chance to get the account back right?

 

Yeah whatever, just be quiet and stop trying to paint yourself with the innocence brush that actual innocent people deserve. You're just making people look at them in a more dubious light.

 

Plenty of people got suspended/banned ( terminology - meh ) temporarily. Plenty of them blatantly exploited millions and still get to play the game. Not sure where you got the idea from that every cheat was getting perm banned.

[Theeko]

Yeah whatever, just be quiet and stop trying to paint yourself with the innocence brush that actual innocent people deserve. You're just making people look at them in a more dubious light.

 

Plenty of people got suspended/banned ( terminology - meh ) temporarily. Plenty of them blatantly exploited millions and still get to play the game. Not sure where you got the idea from that every cheat was getting perm banned.

 

We have no right to decide whose innocent or to be blamed, that's up to the ones that own this game. Also you refuse to believe the fact that it is indeed possible to making billions throughout the years legitimately.

Edited December 15, 2015 by Theeko

[IslanderRebel]

No, you can't. You used to be able to, but they removed that feature.

 

Only way to Odessen if you aren't on Chapter 9 is to buy the 200K Priority transport to Odessen.

I've also tested non-KOTFE 60s and got denied flying my ship there.

 

As for the exploit, all the naughty boys and girls got charcoal from Bioware.

Edited December 15, 2015 by IslanderRebel

[sentientomega]

Only way to Odessen if you aren't on Chapter 9 is to buy the 200K Priority transport to Odessen.

I've also tested non-KOTFE 60s and got denied flying my ship there.

 

Does that kind of travel restriction apply to any other planets in the game?

 

Or, is this example a first?

 

Personally, I've not noticed any other planet that can't be travelled to before it's time.

 

As for the exploit, all the naughty boys and girls got charcoal from Bioware.

 

To hear people in general chat talk, you wouldn't think the latter existed in the realm of gaming.

Edited December 16, 2015 by sentientomega

[Ghisallo]

I too would apply a shoot first ask questions later approach but then I would have much better metrics in place on any auto action than to catch someone who might have only sold a couple of unlocks.

 

 

But see this is the problem. They went with the cheapest and easiest metric possible THEN went with "guilty until proven innocent" at the same time... it was the worst of both worlds. If you are going to do the later, and want to keep customers, you simply can not do the former.

 

This expac has been one blunder after another and yet they keep on going "lalalala" through the livestreams, forums etc like a bunch of smurfs jazzed up on honey suckles.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Ghisallo

[MeNaCe-NZ]

We have no right to decide whose innocent or to be blamed, that's up to the ones that own this game. Also you refuse to believe the fact that it is indeed possible to making billions throughout the years legitimately.

 

It's up to them hence your suspension and lack of an apology form them within your response.

 

You are more or less arguing a technicality on whether or not it's legit to intentionally purchase exploited goods from the GTN being that using the GTN is a legit activity.

Paint how you want it, you exasperated the issue and what is worse is your claims of how rich you are and "why would anyone need to cheat when it's so easy to make credits in this game" when it turns out you were involved in the whole exploiting issue yourself.

You can reword your own statement back at yourself - why would anyone who was billions need to further stuff the economy by actively participating in the purchase of exploited goods helping people launder credits?

Answer - Greed and selfishness.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

But see this is the problem. They went with the cheapest and easiest metric possible THEN went with "guilty until proven innocent" at the same time... it was the worst of both worlds. If you are going to do the later, and want to keep customers, you simply can not do the former.

 

This expac has been one blunder after another and yet they keep on going "lalalala" through the livestreams, forums etc like a bunch of smurfs jazzed up on honey suckles.

 

To be fair there hasn't been a huge influx of people complaining/posting about getting innocently caught out to the point it might affect sub numbers ( unlike say nerfing companions and the amount of posts we got about that ).

 

This leads me to believe the innocent % is very minimal indeed making it quite manageable for them to address in a timely manner. Two people I've seen in this thread get replies. One was a sorry hereh ave some free game time we're wrong and the other was, to paraphrase "technically you're right - now move along" with no apology or recompense.

So it seems they've got the man power to look into these things quite quickly and in a reasonable manner ( not just auto recompense anyone who complains else the obvious person taking advantage of the exploit would have got the same treatment as the truly innocent player ).

I believe this would only be the case if the amount of complaints received was on the low side else that timeline or difference in treatment would be longer and more common.

[BrienBear]

It's up to them hence your suspension and lack of an apology form them within your response.

 

You are more or less arguing a technicality on whether or not it's legit to intentionally purchase exploited goods from the GTN being that using the GTN is a legit activity.

Paint how you want it, you exasperated the issue and what is worse is your claims of how rich you are and "why would anyone need to cheat when it's so easy to make credits in this game" when it turns out you were involved in the whole exploiting issue yourself.

You can reword your own statement back at yourself - why would anyone who was billions need to further stuff the economy by actively participating in the purchase of exploited goods helping people launder credits?

Answer - Greed and selfishness.

 

*insert Michael Douglas' Wall Street "Greed is good" speech here.*

[Lexhorn]

What is the rate of exploiter who will be/were punished for this ? 10% ? 50%? Or 100%

[sentientomega]

*insert Michael Douglas' Wall Street "Greed is good" speech here.*

 

A slightly different, if brief, speech:

 

"There is no fire like passion. There is no shark like hatred. There is no snare like folly. There is no torrent like greed."

 

Some quote from a homeless character from early Law&Order episode Torrents of Greed (Part One), but amazingly relevant, I find, to this entire situation.

Edited December 16, 2015 by sentientomega

[BrienBear]

A slightly different, if brief, speech:

 

"There is no fire like passion. There is no shark like hatred. There is no snare like folly. There is no torrent like greed."

 

Some quote from a homeless character from early Law&Order episode Torrents of Greed (Part One), but amazingly relevant, I find, to this entire situation.

 

So what I'm hearing is, if I want to illegally download movies, I need to have some greed then.

 

That sounds about right!

 

(That was sarcasm and humor if it wasn't obvious.)

 

(Also, props to another LGBT gamer )

Edited December 16, 2015 by BrienBear

[Theeko]

So what I'm hearing is, if I want to illegally download movies, I need to have some greed then.

 

That sounds about right!

 

(That was sarcasm and humor if it wasn't obvious.)

 

(Also, props to another LGBT gamer )

 

Tbh, Greed is human nature everyone has greed

[TX_Angel]

This leads me to believe the innocent % is very minimal indeed making it quite manageable for them to address in a timely manner. Two people I've seen in this thread get replies. One was a sorry hereh ave some free game time we're wrong and the other was, to paraphrase "technically you're right - now move along" with no apology or recompense.

 

Maybe... but if the number of people posting in the forums is a minor percentage of the total playerbase, how many got a 3 day ban and went "What the heck? Screw this, I'm outta here" without another word?

 

The punishment of the innocent is a serious thing.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Maybe... but if the number of people posting in the forums is a minor percentage of the total playerbase, how many got a 3 day ban and went "What the heck? Screw this, I'm outta here" without another word?

 

The punishment of the innocent is a serious thing.

 

Not many I imagine, it's generally not in human nature to receive a 3 day ban for doing nothing wrong at all in a game they are investing time ( and more importantly money ) into and be all like "meh oh well I'll go play something else".

 

Likewise we could apply the same logic to the companions "Meh they got nerfed, I'm outta here" yet look at the activity around that vs the innocent getting caught up here. No doubt some did indeed just quit but I'm sure this issue would warrant far more "outrage" than that issue if there were any significant volumes of people being affected.

 

I would wager innocents getting caught up are very, very minor based by the lack of communication from them ( here or reddit ).

[Transcendent]

Tbh, Greed is human nature everyone has greed

 

I think you're maybe confusing greed with temptation? Subtle difference.

 

Here's another difference, I looked at the stacks and stacks of companion gifts on the GTN (stacks of 99 that could NOT have been earned in a legitimate fashion, imo). I ignored them, not tempted. I could have bought them and flipped them for a profit, but why would I give my credits to exploiters to make more? That's greed.

 

That also just feeds the players abusing the exploit to do it even more, and potentially harm the community of this game. I'm not saying I've been perfect over the years, but I am able to draw a line under it.

Edited December 16, 2015 by Transcendent

[dscount]

What is the rate of exploiter who will be/were punished for this ? 10% ? 50%? Or 100%

 

Nobody knows but BW at this point. Very unlikely they will publish those numbers either. The fact they posted 500+ being permabanned was more information than I expected.

 

Between the Exploit, NiM update, Rollbacks and now Rak bugged I'm willing to be the sub count going into 2016 is going to be pretty darn ugly for Bioware.

 

Even with the bribe of 30 days free they posted on main page until like Jan 4th I think it was listed.

[Theeko]

Nobody knows but BW at this point. Very unlikely they will publish those numbers either. The fact they posted 500+ being permabanned was more information than I expected.

 

Between the Exploit, NiM update, Rollbacks and now Rak bugged I'm willing to be the sub count going into 2016 is going to be pretty darn ugly for Bioware.

 

Even with the bribe of 30 days free they posted on main page until like Jan 4th I think it was listed.

 

I didn't see any bribe of 30 days?