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AP PT. Too much sustained and too much burst.

Ryuku-sama

By Ryuku-sama
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Ryuku-sama

Ryuku-sama

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I've thought about AP PT since 4.0 unleashed a beast worst than ever on us.

They have so much sustain they are only fourth best DPS spec behind Engineering and Annihilation with their stupid long set up time and Deception with their non-existent burst and positionnal requirement. Engineering have FOUR DoTs : Corrosive Dart, Interrogation probe, Plasma Probe and Electrified Railgun. Annihilation have THREE : Force Rend, Rupture and Deadly Saber. Annihilation energy management is still partly tied to RNG. Deception burst is even lower than Lightning burst unless they sacrifice their Phantom Stride for an extra Discharge.

On the other hand, AP shine even more in raid. They have a straightforward rotation, rather easy energy management unless you AoE the fight all day long. And they are so mobile, no other spec can keep up. They can perform their whole rotation from 12m losing out on Sundered (if no one else can apply it) and some damage on Rocket Punch. But they can still do way more damage than needed to meet every enrage timer from 12m... AS A MELEE spec. And they are a burst spec.

In PvP, they can destroy anyyone in a few GCD. FROM 30m. As a melee spec. They can do with 2 GCD set up and everythign up, 55-65k in 3 GCD.

 

They need a nerf, but not a huge one..

 

Just remove a few things.

First, Railshot can only be use on a DoT'ed or incapacited target. That way, it would force a PT to go in melee range at least once. That's more of a PvP nerf. No more 25k Energy Burst into 14k Railshot backed by 16k Detonator and 4k Explosive Dart. They'd need to get into melee range to get that last 14k avaible. And it would give them a slightly longer set up time which is good considering the amount of burst and how difficult it is to counter it consider the stun DR and 100% instant rotation.

Second, to tie in with the first part, Retractable blade Dot cannot be reseted anymore by Explosive Dart and Railshot. It would be reseted by Rocket Punch. A 4m ability. It would nerf AP in both PvP and PvE by forcing them to go into melee range at least once every 18s, at most once every 9s. It wouldn't be huge, but it would be something makign it harder for them to keep 80% DPS by staying 12m away.

Third, I would reduce Mag blast damage by 10-15%. This would have two effects. It would reduce sustain without affecting burst. It wouldn't be huge, but too much for the goal.

Fourth, considering our huge burst, reduce our surge bonus to 10% like any other class excep Marksman. Note that Marksman should also receive this nerf.

Fifth, since third is too strong of a nerf, I would counter balance it with a buff that would make the class slightly harder to play and make the heat management harder. Raise Explosive Dart damage by 10%, gives it 10% surge like all our other attack would have, reduce its CD to 7.5s and remove it from PPA proc. that way, AP would have two drifitng fillers. TD and ED. Plus Energy Burst.

 

EDIT : Alternatively to my fith point, Explosive Dart damage could be raised by another 50% and its CD not be reduced by Prototype missile Silos.

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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Kaytrine

Kaytrine

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I've thought about AP PT since 4.0 unleashed a beast worst than ever on us.

They have so much sustain they are only fourth best DPS spec behind Engineering and Annihilation with their stupid long set up time and Deception with their non-existent burst and positionnal requirement. Engineering have FOUR DoTs : Corrosive Dart, Interrogation probe, Plasma Probe and Electrified Railgun. Annihilation have THREE : Force Rend, Rupture and Deadly Saber. Annihilation energy management is still partly tied to RNG. Deception burst is even lower than Lightning burst unless they sacrifice their Phantom Stride for an extra Discharge.

On the other hand, AP shine even more in raid. They have a straightforward rotation, rather easy energy management unless you AoE the fight all day long. And they are so mobile, no other spec can keep up. They can perform their whole rotation from 12m losing out on Sundered (if no one else can apply it) and some damage on Rocket Punch. But they can still do way more damage than needed to meet every enrage timer from 12m... AS A MELEE spec. And they are a burst spec.

In PvP, they can destroy anyyone in a few GCD. FROM 30m. As a melee spec. They can do with 2 GCD set up and everythign up, 55-65k in 3 GCD.

 

They need a nerf, but not a huge one..

 

Just remove a few things.

First, Railshot can only be use on a DoT'ed or incapacited target. That way, it would force a PT to go in melee range at least once. That's more of a PvP nerf. No more 25k Energy Burst into 14k Railshot backed by 16k Detonator and 4k Explosive Dart. They'd need to get into melee range to get that last 14k avaible. And it would give them a slightly longer set up time which is good considering the amount of burst and how difficult it is to counter it consider the stun DR and 100% instant rotation.

Second, to tie in with the first part, Retractable blade Dot cannot be reseted anymore by Explosive Dart and Railshot. It would be reseted by Rocket Punch. A 4m ability. It would nerf AP in both PvP and PvE by forcing them to go into melee range at least once every 18s, at most once every 9s. It wouldn't be huge, but it would be something makign it harder for them to keep 80% DPS by staying 12m away.

Third, I would reduce Mag blast damage by 10-15%. This would have two effects. It would reduce sustain without affecting burst. It wouldn't be huge, but too much for the goal.

Fourth, considering our huge burst, reduce our surge bonus to 10% like any other class excep Marksman. Nothat Marksman should also receive this nerf.

Fifth, since third is too strong of a nerf, I would counter balance it with a buff that would make the class slightly harder to play and make the heat management harder. Raise Explosive Dart damage by 10%, gives it 10% surge like all our other attack would have, reduce its CD to 7.5s and remove it from PPA proc. that way, AP would have two drifitng fillers. TD and ED. Plus Energy Burst.

 

Some good ideas, but all together would somewhat cripple the class.

 

I like the idea of making RS require a DOT

I like the idea of making Rocket Punch reset the DOT.

I like the idea of reducing Mag Blast damage, but only by 5%.

 

I do not like the idea of reducing our crit bonus to 10%. The 30% bonus is our only hope of killing a healer. Instead, I say give all classes a 30% surge bonus instead.

 

I do not like the idea of making heat management harder. Name another class that has resource issues in PVP. Bounty hunters are the only one due to how it works (if we're heat capped, we're FKED).

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Ryuku-sama

Ryuku-sama

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I like the idea of reducing Mag Blast damage, but only by 5%.

 

Maybe. I don't know. Would depends on buffing Eplosive Dart to make up for the loss.

 

I do not like the idea of reducing our crit bonus to 10%. The 30% bonus is our only hope of killing a healer. Instead, I say give all classes a 30% surge bonus instead.

 

Then we would need to raise HP again.. Better lower crit damage of the two outliers than raise it across the board.

 

I do not like the idea of making heat management harder. Name another class that has resource issues in PVP. Bounty hunters are the only one due to how it works (if we're heat capped, we're FKED).

 

?? Slingers?? Oper?? Merc?? All tech classes have the same energy management. And AP energy management is currently faceroll easy. Add two more drifting filler and you will have a much harder time... But i guess reducing Explosive Dart cost to 10 or 7 would be needed to make it work.

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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Seyyah

Seyyah

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?? Slingers?? Oper?? Merc?? All tech classes have the same energy management. And AP energy management is currently faceroll easy. Add two more drifting filler and you will have a much harder time... But i guess reducing Explosive Dart cost to 10 or 7 would be needed to make it work.

 

i have one of each at max level... given the fact that each one of them is dependant on energy management they are NO WAY near as challenging as a PT...

 

Dont get me wrong i am not saying PT is extra hard... its just with the classes you mentioned i NEVER EVER EVER run into heat/energy issues whereas my PT CAN run into it if the fight extends for too long...

 

making heat management any harder will also have a very negative impact on PvE side of the game which will be an unpleasent experience.

 

just my 2 cents...

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Ryuku-sama

Ryuku-sama

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i have one of each at max level... given the fact that each one of them is dependant on energy management they are NO WAY near as challenging as a PT...

 

Dont get me wrong i am not saying PT is extra hard... its just with the classes you mentioned i NEVER EVER EVER run into heat/energy issues whereas my PT CAN run into it if the fight extends for too long...

 

making heat management any harder will also have a very negative impact on PvE side of the game which will be an unpleasent experience.

 

just my 2 cents...

 

Try pushing your MM sniper as hard as you can. All those Rifle Shot.. Make them Snipe instead.

Mess even slightly with IO rotation. Use one more Power Shot when you can't burn.. And watch yourself run out.

 

All these four classes have exactly the same energy management system. Under 60% energy, your energy regen lowers until you can't recover. AP has it easier than IO, MM (I only have played these, Scrapper and Gunnery among all the DPS specs of these classes since 3.0). AP can always substitute one Mag Shot filler, not one of the two PPA procs, for a Rapid Shot. AP rotation is flexible. IO and MM aren't.

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JianRin

JianRin

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AP PT passive crit bonus will be nerfed from 30% to 10% this coming patch. Wish granted.

 

Now nobody can kill sorc healers, so we can all divert all power to healing sorc whine thrusters!

 

And it still won't be enough for people.

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rothfussian

rothfussian

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Yes, they did just one of the things you said and now the spec is bordering on useless for PVE content. Bio ware overreacts worse than my ex girlfriend. Looks like HM/NiM teams are going to consist of nothing but mercs and carnage maras. Edited by rothfussian
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Gyronamics

Gyronamics

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Yes, they did just one of the things you said and now the spec is bordering on useless for PVE content. Bio ware overreacts worse than my ex girlfriend. Looks like HM/NiM teams are going to consist of nothing but mercs and carnage maras.

 

Lol. HM/NiM content.

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Kaytrine

Kaytrine

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Yes, they did just one of the things you said and now the spec is bordering on useless for PVE content. Bio ware overreacts worse than my ex girlfriend. Looks like HM/NiM teams are going to consist of nothing but mercs and carnage maras.

 

How is it bordering on useless for PVE? I mean, srsly. AP PTs are still capable of pulling 6700+DPS. THATS SIXTY SEVEN HUNDRED +. Yes, its near impossible to parse above 7k after the nerf, but srsly, what fight in the game right now are AP PTs not viable for? Answer? NONE.

 

After the nerf, Mercs and Maras are top dog in PVE content for DPS. AP PTs had their time up there, so stop complaining.

Edited by Kaytrine
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Jimvinny

Jimvinny

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How is it bordering on useless for PVE? I mean, srsly. AP PTs are still capable of pulling 6700+DPS. THATS SIXTY SEVEN HUNDRED +. Yes, its near impossible to parse above 7k after the nerf, but srsly, what fight in the game right now are AP PTs not viable for? Answer? NONE.

 

After the nerf, Mercs and Maras are top dog in PVE content for DPS. AP PTs had their time up there, so stop complaining.

 

You people need to try some of that sweet sweet nim content. Or master and blaster. Let me know how it goes.

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Ryuku-sama

Ryuku-sama

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You people need to try some of that sweet sweet nim content. Or master and blaster. Let me know how it goes.

 

And you plainly suck if you can't do it with AP. If Madness can be used, the spec among the worst sustained spec every and with the least mobility, if Hatred, the melee spec with low sustain, no survivability and no burst, can both be used in any fight, tell me the most mobile, second most burstiest with decent sustained can't..

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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FSavop

FSavop

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You people need to try some of that sweet sweet nim content. Or master and blaster. Let me know how it goes.

 

Master and Blaster is like 100% mechanics and raid coordination, the only DPS check is in the final burn phase which could be done with 3 DPS in the 3.X days.

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Jimvinny

Jimvinny

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And you plainly suck if you can't do it with AP. If Madness can be used, the spec among the worst sustained spec every and with the least mobility, if Hatred, the melee spec with low sustain, no survivability and no burst, can both be used in any fight, tell me the most mobile, second most burstiest with decent sustained can't..

 

Go grab your madness sorc, get into nim Calphayus, and tell me how the second portal phase goes. I'll wait.

 

Master and Blaster is like 100% mechanics and raid coordination, the only DPS check is in the final burn phase which could be done with 3 DPS in the 3.X days.

 

Are we talking about 3.0 all of a sudden? I'm talking about right NOW. With the current boss HP levels, with the current DPS output. Let me know how it goes. Again, I'll wait.

Edited by Jimvinny
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ltankhsd

ltankhsd

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Go grab your madness sorc, get into nim Calphayus, and tell me how the second portal phase goes. I'll wait.

 

 

Are we talking about 3.0 all of a sudden? I'm talking about right NOW. With the current boss HP levels, with the current DPS output. Let me know how it goes. Again, I'll wait.

 

Yes, I am sure he is gathering his buds right now just to go run it and prove your hyperbole wrong.

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LordZorith

LordZorith

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You guys are still complaining about Ap's... I play Tactics and still hit the odd 24k crit but we don't need a nerf... We are fine.

 

Actually I believe every class is fine to be completely honest excluding Sage/Sorc Madness (think its Madness)/Balance and Healing... and yes I am saying the burst spec is fine. Just me though I think they should remove healing from dps specs of sage/sorc... I am fine with the self heal and bubble heals.

 

Commando healing needs some love though.

 

Though i'd wish BladeRush wasn't a rip off animation of pretty much Leg Slash, Sundering Assault and Merciless Slash... would be fine if it was literally like Massacre...

 

hi all. please tell me rotation PT pyro because in pvp my damage is very liltle.

and say please utilites.

 

Pyro/Plasmatech is fine but honestly I think at the current moment its the lowest parsing spec. I can however easily throw up anywhere 1.5m to 2.5m dmg but its not a spec you can really 1v1 one in... I have done it and won sadly vsing a Assassin though but that was one time only.

Edited by LordZorith
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