_NovaBlast_ Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) NovaBlast What I cringe at every time i see it "pvp and ops are the core of any MMO " "without pvp and ops this game is DOOOOOOOMED" "story isn't content its just stuff to do when your not doing pvp and ops" "Without pvp and ops you don't have a game " "an online game without pvp and ops is just a single player game not a MMO" I said exactly none of that. This is just further proof that you stick your fingers in your ears, cherry pick what you want to gripe at people about when they post, and then repost without really taking the time to say anything meaningful, just pick on your fellow players because you don't agree with them. I never said you did. In fact i never even implied you did that was my opening statement when compared to yours .I was giving you examples of what i cringe at . Yes i re-post a lot becase so do other people all the ""this is a mmo the game will die with out more ops and pvp" its like a broken record. Sorry, but I cringe every time i see your name at the top of a post because I know you are just going to either: This next sentence was aimed at you hence why i highlighted it yellow . ****In essence i cringe at your whole attitude displayed in this post **** Bioware posted that they were wanting feedback and were willing to answer questions. That's all that's happening here. Why are you so offended by this? We're just asking about content they have provided for 3+ years and have indicated that they will continue to provide in this game in previous streams/cantinas/statements. What's the harm in asking them about it? Why do you care? Why bash your fellow players over it? Your arguments are hollow because nobody on these forums (but you) is talking about MMOs in general, we're talking about this one specifically and it has always included new end game content (until the last year or so). Im not offend by asking questions. i disagree with all the threads that t try to imply the above statements you thought were aimed at you. For the record And i am including THIS MMO in any and all my responses including ones that have definions Really This paragraph is so full of rambling nonsense its unbelievable. Just so we are clear i am saying.... This MMO doesn't REQUIRE ops and pvp and FP to be considered a MMO It also doesn't REQUIRE it to survive I ALSO have every right to state my opinions. IMO they are propaganda nonsense. Story is what makes this game unique in an MMO world, but without the other parts it would be a single player game. No other single player game asks you to pay a monthly subscription for it. If the story was so much greater here than in any other single player game, perhaps people would feel like they were getting their money's worth. Obviously some people (like yourself) do feel that they are getting their money's worth. That's great! But why bash on people who are responding to Bioware's request for feedback just because it doesn't agree with yours? More propaganda nonsense...if it doesn't have pvp ops and fp its a single player game ....really sound like a broken record. That is your OPINION not a fact. this is actually my favorite response to that. The sheer number of assumptions in this post is staggering. A shorter version could simply read: "I firmly believe that Massively Multiplayer means grouping or PvP, and BioWare doesn't focus on those. I don't find any replay value in KoTFE, so no one else will, and players who play for story, quit, only PvPers and Raiders stick around." ... All of which are false. why bash me for disagreeing with your Doctrine? Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post But after reading all of that Imust say .....Wow a whole rant post dedicated to me i am touched....really... I must have really said something that really hit a nerve with you for you to devote this much to attacking me personally. Although I will give you the credit that you did it with coherency and intelligence its not just a fail troll post like so many others that have attacked me . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Trolling others on the forums does nothing to help the community. That's why I'm suggesting you stop doing it.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ really imo your post to me is the biggest troll on this thread you didn't attack my views you attacked me. It jsut happen to be well written but still a troll response. as i said at the start i consider posts that have any versions of the above sentences at the start trolling as well as they are clearly inaccurate. Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post So i will respond...............not sure if you will consider that a good thing or not ................ A- Yes and all the people crusade for "pvp warzones etc" are any different.As an example PVP and ops players have their own dedicated sub forums yet they keep bring their rants and temper tantrums into the general forum. Why ? I don't have the quote but as one poster put "becase they don't get enough traffic" ....hmmm that says something in itself. They are responding to a request from Bioware for feedback. In this thread. On this forum. That's pretty much it. You keep talking about rants and temper tantrums and I think you are being hyperbolic. Your blood pressure will thank you to not inject conflict where there doesn't need to be any. You don't need to attend every fight you're invited to... and you certainly don't need to start fights or make attempts at turning other people's feedback (to Bioware, not to you) into a fight when it doesn't need to be. Live and let live, man. It's a nice way to be. Again, you bring in your version of a "quote" from someone other than me to try to make your argument. First, you're reaching... second, just... why? one that wasn't not specific to this thread alone but in general. even before this thread you find pvp and ops whines in general chat Also the one getting stressed out is **YOU** You are the one that made a whole rant dedicated to me maybe you should take your own advice .I actually find this amusing that you are so stressed out and upset about my comments and opinion you have decided to engage in a personal battle with me . I also thought your post was well written so decied to indulge you. If i do stop responding to you its not a personal victory I have Just decided your a broken record and no longer worth my time. back to your point I am giving Counter feedback to bioware with actual facts and my own opinion. is that not my right ? What no ones allowed to give feed back or counter arguments that is Blasphemous to the almighty MMO MUST include ops pvp and fp or its just a single player game and not worth $15 a month doctrine? What something is worth is a personal choice and I feel I get great value for my money. WHY?One to show you i am not alone in my opinion two some people say thing in a different and sometimes better way than i do. Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post B. First of all ... Truth hurts? SWTOR at its core has ALWAYS been about story. With other side elements and "forced" grouping as they used to hide content behind "group walls" in order to entice people to group. A practice they seem to be stopping for the better. Second: if people keep saying the earth is flat I will keep reminding them its indeed round. My whole point with that is the definition of MMO does not REQUIRE ops ,raids pvp or any such content to be classified as a MMO. It does not turn into a "Single player game" without it either. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ LOL@"Truth hurts". Congratulations, you can read a dictionary. But we aren't discussing all MMOs, we are discussing this MMO and it has always included (up until the last year or so) ALL of the elements including story that make it the game that it is. You may not like grouping with other people, but I do wonder why you play a game that is multiplayer if that is the case. I don't care enough to argue with you about it, it just seems curious to me that you have taken it upon yourself to decide for Bioware what they are doing and what they are not doing. Who cares what the generic definition is? We're talking about this game. In the description of this game from the SWTOR website: "Discover A Fully Featured MMO Join your friends in fast-paced combat encounters including player-vs.-player Warzones, multi-player Flashpoints and Operations, and much more." This IS, whether you like it or not, the game Bioware is attempting to provide. And it DOES include those features. All we're asking is this: Are we going to get more variety of these same features we've been enjoying for so long? If the shoe was on the other foot and they abandoned all new storyline content for PVP maps and new Operations only, you'd be asking the same question of them, or taking your money elsewhere. Why are you so offended when this happens on the other side of the coin? Again, it comes down to this: Live and let live, man. Im talking about this game to. Things change. As i said in my original response to you im not against it . I am against the opinion that its the most important part of a "MMO" Take out all of the story aspects .... the ops pvp fp dies with it ....without story whats the point of he others? would enough people pay if there was random go kill the boss ops fp and pvp with no actual story to hold them together? Take out all the ops , fp an pvp --- you still have a cohesive MMORPG -- by definition one as you stated the for the last year has survived with out any new group" stuff and will probably have to wait till at least close to the end of next year. hmmmmmm Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post As for a significance portion i would disagree not only have I seen on other thread a "10% raiders / pvp" stat from some where all of Bioware's current trends have seem to be opposite of that face ... Making FP soloable , focusing on companion , focusing on story to just name a few . No one has Bio's true metrics so we can only try to extrapolate form the choices they have been making. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No, you don't know the metrics... and in fact you can't even point to anything but something you saw quoted on another thread from another player who also is guessing at facts instead of providing facts. Which is exactly why you should quit talking like you know what Bioware's intention is with the future of SWTOR and bashing people who are asking for information straight from the source. We're not trying to assume, we're asking. Further, they told us to ask. And there are a lot of us asking, both here and on Reddit, and anywhere else we think we might have a chance at getting an answer. Be helpful, or be quiet and let the grown-ups talk. It's advice my grandmother gave me and I think it's sound in most situations, including this one. Yea pvp and ops are sooooop popular that why Eric said the two main thing that have been requested is story and companions .....hmmmmm they are making more things soloable ...and they are concentrating on story.... Again you should take your own advice . As long as anyone keeps making broad statements like these ( again no aimed solely at you) What I cringe at every time i see it "pvp and ops are the core of any MMO " "without pvp and ops this game is DOOOOOOOMED" "story isn't content its just stuff to do when your not doing pvp and ops" "Without pvp and ops you don't have a game " "an online game without pvp and ops is just a single player game not a MMO" I will continue to contradict them whenever i feel its worth my time . That is my right . Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post C Pot calling kettle black --- really you actually included that after the rant you just wrote . Simple solution if people stop responding in a snarky way the most likely result is they will get the same in return ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I don't understand what you're saying here. Are you saying I'm being snarky with you? That I'm trolling you? But you said earlier that you didn't take it that way. It wasn't how I intended it, it was intended as friendly advice. If you want people to read your posts and be taken seriously, please refrain from the "Aww, poor baby" crappola that gets us nowhere as a community. And you keep using the words "rant" and "tantrum" to minimize other people's feedback. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Come down off the high horse for a second and try to see that it accomplishes absolutely nothing except to add to the useless noise when you respond like that to your fellow players. Congrats that is exactly what i am saying. You started this by throwing a temper tantrum becase you don't like the points I'm bring up. I did say your post was well written but if you could read the sarcasm that well your issues. I am not on a high horse I'm knocking people who think their play style is the main an only reason for the existence of mmo's and they would all fall apart with out it ... including you with your " its just a single player game with out ops fp pvp rant" Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post Last paragraph Thank you I do have my own lists of wants though so as with anything nothing is perfect . Not everyone gets exactly what they want ... ill post it at the bottom so you can see that for yourself . Im not throwing a temper tantrum about it . ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Of course you aren't ranting or throwing a temper tantrum about anything. Just the rest of us are. Okay. Glad we agree on that . Acceptance is the first stage of recovery **yes i am being sarcastic ** but its useless to argue this point with you due to you thinking that the majority of pro ops etc posts have been " questions " or "feedback" and not winy temper tantrums mixed with delusion of grandeur Quote: Originally Posted by _NovaBlast_ View Post And for the record and i have said this many times before as well I would be more than happy if they wanted to put in more group things such as FP and ops if they also included a way to solo them for the same rewards. For example letting me use my crew for ops or at the very least some of those awesome droids in the sor solo fp But then I get snarky elitist response as you stated you didn't like above "why should you get the same rewards as us " "we are better than you L2p then you can get that stuff to" "we put "work and "effort" into it so we "deserve" more than you" My response to that is simply ... If you enjoy grouping or if you enjoy HM or enjoy ops .... why do you think you "deserve" more simply becase that is your play style and grouping is something you enjoy as well as that level of difficulty as opposed to someone who doesn't? Again, I haven't said any of this and it is irrelevant to this conversation what you may have been subjected to from other people at other various times. I would just say this to answer the "why do you "deserve" more...": I don't think I deserve more than anybody else in this game who is playing it the way it was intended. As I quoted earlier, directly from the SWTOR website, this game is attempting to provide group content. My question to you is, why does it offend you when we answer the request for feedback that doesn't fit your play style? I think if there is any pot and kettle involved, it's in that regard on your end... not on mine. Why did you feel necessary to attack me because my feedback doesn't fit with your doctrine? Again i never said you did. Really you like reading into things don't you? IF you actually take the time to read what i said that question at the end of the comments was directed at the GENERAL above comments. At no point did i even imply that that question was directed at you,. Actually i was attempting to show you i wasn't pvp ops and fp i was against the attitude that happens when someone offers a compromise and as I said before the attitude that "MMOs exist for the sole purpose of supporting ops pvp and fps" is completely wrong imo and again this was again not directed at you personally but your so high strung and stressed out you just had to find some way to take it personally. Anyways i am finally at the end and i think i have indulged you enough reply if you want but i most likely wont. although anythings possible . disclaimer: any grammar or spelling mistakes i missed was because i got bored and didn't feel like editing anymore. Edited December 4, 2015 by _NovaBlast_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) I never said you did. In fact i never even implied you did that was my opening statement when compared to yours .I was giving you examples of what i cringe at . My only issue is that I feel many of your cringe worthy statements are creating so much cringe your vision is a little skewed. It's not just the lack of new OPs and FPs that is the problem...its the lack of any new repeatable content, regardless of type, combined with the staged release of the story that is the problem. I am actually frustrated as hell too... That we are continuing this Solo v FP v OP Battle when everyone, with the exception of the person that sees quests (even in the story) as getting in the way of story, shares the same issue. Even the bit about "story is what I do between..." Is tinged with hyperbole. If you are speaking of what Nija said he is absolutely right...the story even in KOTOR is not THE game. Without the playable content you have the animated equivalent of one of the "Chose your own adventure" books I read as a kid 35 years ago. Now yes some people may be cool with that but a game with a budget like this one could not survive on that income. The foundation of any video game is what can be played... The very definition says "a game played." Without the stuff to play it is not a video game, it is a movie or a new form of graphic novel. Now for an MMORPG Them Park game you need 2 things, adequate playable and repeatable content and it needs to provide that for the different "rides" (content types.) The reason we don't have it now is because they went all in on a reset of the game world for the benefit of new players... This decision however is causing more than a little consternation among the existing player base and if we could only stop saying "Solo", " FP" or "OP" in a denigrating fashion we might actually get somewhere. Edited December 4, 2015 by Ghisallo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxxxdantexxxx Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) IMO the story-driven part killed the Game nearly after the Release. The Cartel-Shop & F2P saved it. Now I don't understand why BW is listening to that kind of players who subbed at the release then quitted after the story was done, and now subbed again. The only reason this game is still alive, is Star Wars. But if BW keeps ignoring the MMO-part so hard and continues to sell a Online Single Player Game without any difficulty, and companions who are the real Heroes of the expansion, many Players would stop subscribing and switch to Games which earn the title MMO. The HK gift wasn't necessary, maybe the new Player's don't know that there is a way to get HK-51?! The possibility of playing a chapter as HK is just another way to show that OUR characters "The Outlander" is only the Sidekick of this expansion. And I'm sure if the *****torm is big enough BW would release it for every subscriber, so it would just be early access! The promotion of the Stream was ridiculous and irritating, because every time I read awesome and epic in reference with SWTOR everyone should know that it will be the complete opposite! Sry 4 bad English... Edited December 4, 2015 by xxxxdantexxxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 IMO the story-driven part killed the Game nearly after the Release. The Cartel-Shop & F2P saved it. Now I don't understand why BW is listening to that kind of players who subbed at the release then quitted after the story was done, and now subbed again. The only reason this game is still alive, is Star Wars. But if BW keeps ignoring the MMO-part so hard and continues to sell a Online Single Player Game without any difficulty, and companions who are the real Heroes of the expansion, many Players would stop subscribing and switch to Games which earn the title MMO. The HK gift wasn't necessary, maybe the new Player's don't know that there is a way to get HK-51?! The possibility of playing a chapter as HK is just another way to show that OUR characters "The Outlander" is only the Sidekick of this expansion. And I'm sure if the *****torm is big enough BW would release it for every subscriber, so it would just be early access! The promotion of the Stream was ridiculous and irritating, because every time I read awesome and epic in reference with SWTOR everyone should know that it will be the complete opposite! Sry 4 bad English... See the thing is what you say is how they tried to sell it but they never actually said that either... It was more the impression. What did they say? "Going back to our roots" and "all about the story for now." The reason for this is simple really. They just want a BIG boost in subscribers bookending the release of the new movie. At a stockholders earnings call (Q3 2015) the Chief Financial Officer came right out and said the game grew with SoR and they expected MORE with the new movie. To meet this goal they introduced instant Lvl 60's, reset companions so an instant Lvl 60 can evolve with the companions easily and recycled all the content sothese new players say "look at how huge this game is." That's the reason, its not saying "this should have been KOTOR 3" or "we are going to be all story because that s where the money is". If they were they woukd not have made it clear they are making new elder game content... This expac isn't about any existing player, much of the existing player base, including Solo players are finally beginning to wake up to it, they just aren't realizing the why yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_riches Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) IMO the story-driven part killed the Game nearly after the Release. The Cartel-Shop & F2P saved it. If this was the case then the game would be dead already, according to BW its SUBS that pay the most into the cartel market and F2P don't pay for anything in the game and they spend less in the CM. This game has never been heavy on Operations or PvP from day one (since both types of players feel undervalued for ages in terms of content), so looking at this game over other MMO's its unique selling points are: 1) Its a star Wars Title 2) 8 Story heavy classes Now point 1 can only hold a game up for so long, which leaves story. Edited December 4, 2015 by Jedi_riches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salakast Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I ALSO have every right to state my opinions. IMO they are propaganda nonsense. Are you sure you meant this as it reads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 If this was the case then the game would be dead already, according to BW its SUBS that pay the most into the cartel market and F2P don't pay for anything in the game and they spend less in the CM. This game has never been heavy on Operations or PvP from day one (since both types of players feel undervalued for ages in terms of content), so looking at this game over other MMO's its unique selling points are: 1) Its a star Wars Title 2) 8 Story heavy classes Now point 1 can only hold a game up for so long, which leaves story. Well BW more than once has themselves said two things saved the game... The f2p transition and adding elder game and community content they lacked at launch. See here is the thing. EA said that they would only call this game a success if they did not drop below 500k subs. In one interview they stated that the additional content stemmed the subscription drop at "a little less" than 500k and added a couple million f2p accounts. As they were in "failure" land, according to their definition of success, the extra revenue from microtransactions, regardless who pays them, is necessary to balance the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 (edited) Ninja is not exactly right IMO. Like it or not, modern MMOs, story is content, and story is usually at the top of the list of desired items for casual players. Grant it, casuals also generally desire things like appearance modification, housing, ease of travel, minigames, etc, story is at the top because, generally speaking of course, rerolling is a casual staple. Now, again, this game could be different. It has bucked industry trends in a few ways and the metrics may in fact support higher end game/group content/pvp participation than the industry standard. But I think that is likely. That does not, in any way, mean that hardcore or traditional players should be ignored....they need content as well. All it means, if this game is following market trends, is that it is more likely we will see much more story and secondary features pointed at casuals than we will group content...if they want to cater to the likely majority playerbase. I personally think, despite whatever the majority or market trend may be, that an MMO isn't a true MMO unless it has regular group content...but that is me, just my personal opinion. I realize I am likely in the minority in this view. I feel they have likely added content, and may concentrate on future content that caters to the casual player at the expense of some of SWTORs existing traditional players. I have chosen to embrace the casual paradigm. Edited December 4, 2015 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaberMaster Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'll make this brief… Story is not content. To be clear, I started playing this game in the first place because of story. However, even with that enthusiasm and focus, I wasn't planning on playing for very long. Because story doesn't last. I played KOTOR I probably over 30 times, and ME1 almost that much, but that is dwarfed by the amount of time I've spent in SWTOR. The time I've spent in SWTOR has not been because of its story. I've certainly played all of the story content, and I've enjoyed it… the first time through. But now it's over. I have no desire to re-play even the KotFE storyline, despite its excellence. Story doesn't retain ongoing activity in the game. Story is flavor. Content is substance. Content is something that you do in groups, because people are what give meaning and variety to repetitive actions. PvP and GSF are the embodiment of this philosophy, but PvE (especially operations) are as well. Operations, GSF and warzone maps. These are content. These are what players have poured endless hours into repeating, despite the unchanging nature of the boss fights or objectives or terrain. Nobody is pouring that amount of time into any story. SWTOR needs new content. Desperately. There hasn't been a single piece of new PvE content since 3.0. There hasn't been a single piece of new PvP or GSF content for even longer. Without content, communities have nothing to do. Guilds die and players leave. All you have left are solo players who log in for a few hours every week, trickle-consuming the story. I'm not even sure there's a question in here, other than the obvious "when will you release any new content?" And don't say story, because story isn't content. Excellent post KBN. Too bad the powers that be won't give a **** about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyAnn Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Thing is it's probably a different "team" that create new content to the "team" that fix content, its not saying one can do the others job. For the record, yes there are some "game breaking bugs" that are in desperate fix before anybody at Bioware even thinks of leaving for their xmas break, they cannot leave the game in this state over xmas there are too many big problems, companion conversations not progressing, class missions not progessing. Don't hold your breath. They went on Christmas break just LAST YEAR leaving a huge exploit active that they knew about on the PTS before they even launched SoR and didn't fix until they came back in January (and even then didn't fix it right away). They are not known for getting right after bug fixes or even exploits unless the players have a huge uprising, and then people complain about huge uprisings on the forums... if it's the only thing that gets results are people really surprised that it happens over and over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PennyAnn Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Has anyone called out Keyboardninja on the paradox in their post? First they say that Story isn't content, then they say they finished playing through all the Story Content in the next paragraph... but if Story isn't Content then what were they just playing? (Cue Twilight Zone theme) He doesn't need to be called out because he explained it himself. Story is the flavor. For all but a few, the story is not repeatable past 3 or 4 times through it. If they only had people willing to run operations/pvp maps/flashpoints/heroics and other -repeatable- content 3-4 times before they were done with it, this game would have been dead a long time ago. He played through the story to get the flavor and context in which the end game content takes place... the problem is that there isn't any end game content. Star Fortress, a completely soloable flashpoint even on the hardest difficulty with a companion does not qualify as true end game content. He hit the nail on the head for many of us, thus the multiple reposts (vs. the 2 or 3 of you in this thread that disagree with him). No further explanation necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadescythe Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 He doesn't need to be called out because he explained it himself. Story is the flavor. For all but a few, the story is not repeatable past 3 or 4 times through it. If they only had people willing to run operations/pvp maps/flashpoints/heroics and other -repeatable- content 3-4 times before they were done with it, this game would have been dead a long time ago. He played through the story to get the flavor and context in which the end game content takes place... the problem is that there isn't any end game content. Star Fortress, a completely soloable flashpoint even on the hardest difficulty with a companion does not qualify as true end game content. He hit the nail on the head for many of us, thus the multiple reposts (vs. the 2 or 3 of you in this thread that disagree with him). No further explanation necessary. It's not content you enjoy, but it's still content. I've leveled over 20 characters through many of the same stories. That's in addition to PvP and end game PvE. This particular story of 9 chapters did not impress me as something to be replayed, but that doesn't mean the overall idea of story isn't content. I certainly found the vanilla story content to be replayable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zharik Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 IMO the story-driven part killed the Game nearly after the Release. The Cartel-Shop & F2P saved it. Now I don't understand why BW is listening to that kind of players who subbed at the release then quitted after the story was done, and now subbed again. <snip> You answered your own question... They are listening because they feel like they HAVE the long term players regardless of what content they produce for the next year. The returning players represent MORE INCOME from developing more story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletBlaze Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 He doesn't need to be called out because he explained it himself. Story is the flavor. For all but a few, the story is not repeatable past 3 or 4 times through it. If they only had people willing to run operations/pvp maps/flashpoints/heroics and other -repeatable- content 3-4 times before they were done with it, this game would have been dead a long time ago. He played through the story to get the flavor and context in which the end game content takes place... the problem is that there isn't any end game content. Star Fortress, a completely soloable flashpoint even on the hardest difficulty with a companion does not qualify as true end game content. He hit the nail on the head for many of us, thus the multiple reposts (vs. the 2 or 3 of you in this thread that disagree with him). No further explanation necessary. For me and my guild it is content. I been here since launch and never stepped foot in an operation and never will do pvp. So it would depend on what you like to do. As far as the Star Fortress I do it with my friends and not solo. You can do anything in the game and make it a group content. It doesn't have to be operations or hard mode flashpoints to make it group content. My boyfriend and I have leveled our toons together and we do it in a group so therefore we are doing group content. We will also do the new story together as a lot of my guild has down and therefore it is group content. You can make things group content without specifically doing operations. It would depend on who you play with and how you play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurin Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 I'll make this brief… Story is not content. To be clear, I started playing this game in the first place because of story. However, even with that enthusiasm and focus, I wasn't planning on playing for very long. Because story doesn't last. I played KOTOR I probably over 30 times, and ME1 almost that much, but that is dwarfed by the amount of time I've spent in SWTOR. The time I've spent in SWTOR has not been because of its story. I've certainly played all of the story content, and I've enjoyed it… the first time through. But now it's over. I have no desire to re-play even the KotFE storyline, despite its excellence. Story doesn't retain ongoing activity in the game. Story is flavor. Content is substance. Content is something that you do in groups, because people are what give meaning and variety to repetitive actions. PvP and GSF are the embodiment of this philosophy, but PvE (especially operations) are as well. Operations, GSF and warzone maps. These are content. These are what players have poured endless hours into repeating, despite the unchanging nature of the boss fights or objectives or terrain. Nobody is pouring that amount of time into any story. SWTOR needs new content. Desperately. There hasn't been a single piece of new PvE content since 3.0. There hasn't been a single piece of new PvP or GSF content for even longer. Without content, communities have nothing to do. Guilds die and players leave. All you have left are solo players who log in for a few hours every week, trickle-consuming the story. I'm not even sure there's a question in here, other than the obvious "when will you release any new content?" And don't say story, because story isn't content. I think my question is, when will we see a roadmap for the Group MMO Content of the game? I agree that this story was nice. I've played through it 8 times, in part out of necessity, and in part because I enjoyed it the first few times. Doing it another 14 times...not at all looking forward to it any time soon. Raid nights are getting brutal. Nearly every week someone leaves the group, and we are looking for a sub. Ops groups are folding and merging at an alarming rate. The attrition rate is noticeable and heavier/faster than any time I have ever recalled. Even with as frustrating as 3.0 was for Ops groups (with bugs, exploits, and difficulty), this is different. It's depressing, which is a far stronger emotion to deal with and overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genealogymaster Posted December 4, 2015 Share Posted December 4, 2015 Will there be a change to the recruitment process for M1-4X and Lt. Pierce? Trying to wade through all those PvP players who are rude and obnoxious is not fun. Another task would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gindorf Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Wow, so... have they said when they will be answering any of our questions.. because clearly "by the end of week"... hasn't happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joefjr Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 How about making one of the monthly rewards a way to make HK-55 melee instead of range. Just tired of having all these range droids in game, bad enough they destroyed SCORPIO by making her range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raphael_diSanto Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) It's not content you enjoy, but it's still content. I've leveled over 20 characters through many of the same stories. That's in addition to PvP and end game PvE. This particular story of 9 chapters did not impress me as something to be replayed, but that doesn't mean the overall idea of story isn't content. I certainly found the vanilla story content to be replayable. Emphasis mine. This is the important part. Story is content, the same way that raids or ops or pvp or gsf or decorating your house is content. When people say "I want more content" what they really mean is "I want more content of the type I enjoy" Right now, we have content of the type I, personally, enjoy. Maybe at some point in time, others will get content of the type they enjoy. But after seeing SoR, Ziost and now KoTFE, it seems to me to be that BioWare want to spend dev resources on the sort of content I enjoy, rather than the sort I don't enjoy. I'm obviously okay with this. I also understand why others would not be. Feel free to make your case for more of your content. I shall continue to make a case for more of mine. Like a previous poster said - I've been a sub since beta. Never been on a single raid. Raiding, to me, isn't repeatable content. It's generally full of combat, which I find mind-numbingly boring, rather than dialogue or story, which is what I pay a sub for. Edited December 5, 2015 by Raphael_diSanto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LudhaninRolgge Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 For me and my guild it is content. I been here since launch and never stepped foot in an operation and never will do pvp. So it would depend on what you like to do. As far as the Star Fortress I do it with my friends and not solo. You can do anything in the game and make it a group content. It doesn't have to be operations or hard mode flashpoints to make it group content. My boyfriend and I have leveled our toons together and we do it in a group so therefore we are doing group content. We will also do the new story together as a lot of my guild has down and therefore it is group content. You can make things group content without specifically doing operations. It would depend on who you play with and how you play. You are misunderstanding what group content is. Group content is not necessarily what you do in group, but content designed to be played in group. FP, ops, heroics and star fortress (even if the last 2 can easily be soloed) are designed to be played in group. Story on the other hand is not designed to be played in group. You can do it, but that doesn't make it group content the same way soloing old FP was not solo content. It was group content you did solo because, in that case, it was not at level anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghisallo Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Ninja is not exactly right IMO. Like it or not, modern MMOs, story is content, and story is usually at the top of the list of desired items for casual players. Grant it, casuals also generally desire things like appearance modification, housing, ease of travel, minigames, etc, story is at the top because, generally speaking of course, rerolling is a casual staple. Now, again, this game could be different. It has bucked industry trends in a few ways and the metrics may in fact support higher end game/group content/pvp participation than the industry standard. But I think that is likely. That does not, in any way, mean that hardcore or traditional players should be ignored....they need content as well. All it means, if this game is following market trends, is that it is more likely we will see much more story and secondary features pointed at casuals than we will group content...if they want to cater to the likely majority playerbase. I personally think, despite whatever the majority or market trend may be, that an MMO isn't a true MMO unless it has regular group content...but that is me, just my personal opinion. I realize I am likely in the minority in this view. I feel they have likely added content, and may concentrate on future content that caters to the casual player at the expense of some of SWTORs existing traditional players. I have chosen to embrace the casual paradigm. The casual player also wants new playable content... Period. I think people are confabulating "story" with solo playable and repeatable content. The two are different things. If they weren't would WoW still be making over 800 million a year? Would FFXIV not only have just broken 5 million players BUT 5 million subscriptions because they refuse to go f2p? No. People keep talking about the "new casual player that care more about story and fluff" but every MMO that has tried to cater to that has basically face planted and been forced into a f2p mold (ESO, GW2) while the two games that said "that idea is false" have flourished...yes WoW is fading...after over 10 years of doing it... FFXIV with realm reborn is downright resurgent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_NovaBlast_ Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 Are you sure you meant this as it reads? Perhaps if you didn't cherry pick the last line it would make more sense to you. I am obviously talking about everything above that, or maybe were you just in a trolling mood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_NovaBlast_ Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) My only issue is that I feel many of your cringe worthy statements are creating so much cringe your vision is a little skewed. It's not just the lack of new OPs and FPs that is the problem...its the lack of any new repeatable content, regardless of type, combined with the staged release of the story that is the problem. No i think i see things just fine ...perhaps its your vision that is skewed . From what i have read of yours and the fact you seem to think "repeatable content" only means stuff like ops / fp etc or that the lack of these make for a "choose your own adventure book" Depends what you consider to be repeatable... I have reached legacy level 50 without ever doing PVP or OPS Class stories Planet and sub quests Expansions SOR solo fp Bonus seriises Dailies Weeklys I seem to remember my first character i played though the whole game completed ALL Of the Above content avaible at the time and once i was fully geared and had crafting max I started my second i played though the whole game completed ALL Of the Above content avaible at the time and once i was fully geared and had crafting max then i started my third i played though the whole game completed ALL Of the Above content avaible at the time and once i was fully geared and had crafting max Then i started my fourth i played though the whole game completed ALL Of the Above content avaible at the time and once i was fully geared and had crafting max etc..... etc....... ohhh and When new story content comes out ...well...then i have to start at the first again and .... Get the picture.....? great value imo for less than 15$ a month becase i buy in months usually 3-6 at a time. bulk. With the add CC Swtor has more that paid for itself and i got i end up "in profit" in terms of value for money. Even the bit about "story is what I do between..." Is tinged with hyperbole. If you are speaking of what Nija said he is absolutely right...the story even in KOTOR is not THE game. Without the playable content you have the animated equivalent of one of the "Chose your own adventure" books I read as a kid 35 years ago. Now yes some people may be cool with that but a game with a budget like this one could not survive on that income I have made my feelings of KBN post quite clear on a number of occasions ...so i completely disagree with you. Completely disagree with you and your entire post. IMO The only thing i liked about the live stream was they Didn't announce any new pvp ops or FP. I am glad they are focusing on story and tryingto make this a better MMORPG. that is solo-able and does not have content locked behind forced grouping. Also IMO its the Fp pvp and ops are NOT CONTENT to me just minor side dishes filler . The more resources they put into story and companion the better for this *** RPG .**** Has anyone called out Keyboardninja on the paradox in their post? First they say that Story isn't content, then they say they finished playing through all the Story Content in the next paragraph... but if Story isn't Content then what were they just playing? (Cue Twilight Zone theme) I have . "story is not content " is ludicrous.. just as the people who think pvp ops and fp are the "core" or the "glue" of a mmo and the game is "dooooomed" without it. IMO is over dramatic and they are trying to make thier ant hill position seem like a mountain As for surviving that just brings me up to my cringe posts .... ops / fp /pvp are are not the "core " , "foundation" or biggest draw of SWTOR . If you accept that the devs create the content that generates them the most revenue as fact. Then the fact they have not release any ops / pvp and since sor is very telling. Also telling is they have continued to focus on story companions. These a observations not only show that they are surviving but they are also going after their biggest customers.. The foundation of any video game is what can be played... The very definition says "a game played." Without the stuff to play it is not a video game, it is a movie or a new form of graphic novel. Now for an MMORPG Them Park game you need 2 things, adequate playable and repeatable content and it needs to provide that for the different "rides" (content types.) Response to this is mostly in the first paragraph.. Your repeated thoughts are repeated. As for "different rides" I am not saying ops and fp don't have their place. As long as they don't have any content locked behind them that doesn't have the option to be soloed if desired. I'm saying that the people who are crusading for them Including you by this response are having delusions of grandeur about their popularity and importance to the game. The reason we don't have it now is because they went all in on a reset of the game world for the benefit of new players... This decision however is causing more than a little consternation among the existing player base and if we could only stop saying "Solo", " FP" or "OP" in a denigrating fashion we might actually get somewhere No as i stated above IMO they are going after what their metrics tell them are the most loyal types of players and the most used and requested content. Edited December 5, 2015 by _NovaBlast_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) You are misunderstanding what group content is. Group content is not necessarily what you do in group, but content designed to be played in group. FP, ops, heroics and star fortress (even if the last 2 can easily be soloed) are designed to be played in group. Story on the other hand is not designed to be played in group. You can do it, but that doesn't make it group content the same way soloing old FP was not solo content. It was group content you did solo because, in that case, it was not at level anymore. NVM: Not worth the hassle. Edited December 5, 2015 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casirabit Posted December 5, 2015 Share Posted December 5, 2015 (edited) Deleted: Double posted. Edited December 5, 2015 by casirabit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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