The Current State of this game. Will Swtor make it another year?

[Extinctionzone]

December 2011 we had 208 servers world wide.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=333171#post255

 

less than 4 years later we have 19 servers world wide. http://www.swtor.com/server-status, some of these are complete ghost towns, and could be shut down. If we get real about it, this game could support maybe 5-10 populated servers. given our currently trajectory will this game last another 1-2 years?

 

I don't even remember a honeymoon period with this game. its just been epic fail and backflip one after the other. they never really got it right for significant periods of time. Its sad because its star wars , and to see it butchered worse than Sony's effort with Galaxies (8 year effort) is astounding.

 

2015 SWTOR has....

Story = Singular.

PVP = stale (same maps)

Ops = no new ones.

World sync = Cleverly disguised time sink.

KOTFE = Excellent. but to short, and linear. no replayability once both "choices" have been played.

Class Balance = No (has there ever been a time?)

 

I love star wars, but gaming wise. I feel like they are ruining it. its frustrating and sad....

 

TLDR;

 

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened"

 

I feel you Obi.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Extinctionzone

[Amodin]

This has happened in every game. Welcome to the cycle of life.

[Ghisallo]

Yes it will. The number of servers are irrelevant. We have no clue how many accounts are per server etc. Plus with microtransactions being a large part of the equation, raw player numbers hold less weight. In 2013 and 2014 this game made a fair margin over 100 million a year... Better than all but 3 MMORPGs out there. As long as it keeps making bank, they will keep on going. EQ, UO, EQ2, RIFT and many others are still clicking along. When you need to be concerned is when you see about a years worth of earnings calls where the CFO talks about SWTOR being considered a drain on revenue.

 

Even then, because of the IP, they would probably just put it in maintenance mode until they come up with a replacement. That in large part is why EQ and EQ2 are still going. They keep going because there are enough players to make some profit WHILE also keeping the IP "out there" in the MMORPG genre. This way, if/when they launch EQNext, they have a ready made player base. Also it helps with word of mouth advertising (one of the main ways MMORPGs historically use) because the people still playing are more likely to know the knew game is coming out and spread the word.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Extinctionzone]

This has happened in every game. Welcome to the cycle of life.

 

I know I just feel like with SWTOR, and the possible revival Disney can bring to the franchise, this year and then consequently future years could have been better. Perhaps Disney should give MMO's a go.

[Extinctionzone]

Yes it will. The number of servers are irrelevant. We have no clue how many accounts are per server etc. Plus with microtransactions being a large part of the equation, raw player numbers hold less weight. I 2013 and 2014 this game made a fair margin over 100 million a year... Better than all but 3 MMORPGs out there. As long as it keeps making bank, they will keep on going. EQ, UO, EQ2, RIFT and many others are still clicking along. When you need to be concerned is when you see about a years worth of earnings calls where the CFO talks about SWTOR being considered a drain on revenue.

 

Server population has a direct impact on longevity. if there are less populated servers there are less people playing. if people are not playing. they are not spending. you don't log in to make micro transactions and then log out, you log in. immerse yourself in the game and then get enticed to spend at the store , for that cool cosmetic to finish off your look, or that sweet weapon to finish your combat pose, or try your luck with a gamble bag for that awesome armor set.

 

if people don't play. people don't spend.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Extinctionzone

[Ghisallo]

Server population has a direct impact on longevity. if there are less populated servers there are less people playing. if people are not playing. they are not spending. you don't log in to make micro transactions and then log out, you log in. immerse yourself in the game and then get enticed to spend at the store , for that cool cosmetic to finish off your look, or that sweet weapon to finish your combat pose, or try your luck with a gamble bag for that awesome armor set.

 

if people don't play. people don't spend.

 

I didn't say it doesn't have an impact at all, I said the numbers matter less. There is a formula for these games that some bean counters came up with... 89/10/1. That is to say; 89% of the players pay little or nothing, 10% of the players pay the minimum buy in for full access (subscription ) and 1% pay money hand over fist over that buy in (the whales, patrons, whatever you want to call them. As such raw account numbers carry much less weight than in a 100% subscription game. Heck even the number of subscribers has less influence because of the incredibly disproportionate impact the "whale/patron" has on the bottom line.

 

Now eventually the number of players can drop to a point where that top 11% may be negatively effected BUT that number needs to be pretty low in a genre that has evolved into, largely, people who solo and see other players almost as NPCs and those in guilds. I wish it was like back in the day when I started...EQ, EQ2 etc. There server communities were just that.communities... We used chat to get groups, we used chat to get stuff crafted we had friends list a mile long and you would constantly get tells asking for help, if you wanted to group etc.

 

This has steadily erroded

Edited November 30, 2015 by Ghisallo

[JacksonMo]

This has happened in every game. Welcome to the cycle of life.

 

More importantly, SWTOR haters have been saying this non-stop since the beginning.

 

December 2011 we had 208 servers world wide.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=333171#post255

 

less than 4 years later we have 19 servers world wide. http://www.swtor.com/server-status, some of these are complete ghost towns, and could be shut down. If we get real about it, this game could support maybe 5-10 populated servers. given our currently trajectory will this game last another 1-2 years?

 

This is not even a relevant point to the argument. The 2011 launch was a HUGE event just prior to Christmas. They opened so many servers to accommodate the gazillions of kids out of school on winter break who got the game as a Christmas gift.

SWTOR's big mistake was not anticipating all those kids going back to school by mid-January. By that time, many had raced through all of the leveling content, bypassing the many many side-quests along the way, raced right through the operations that were available at the time, declared the game "beaten" and QUIT.

It took until July to finally merge the servers. By then many more had moved on to other games out of frustration.

Others abandoned their toons to reroll on more populated servers.

 

What you also fail to realize is that those 19 servers are massive compared to the original servers.

SWTOR never released the actual stats, but I've read estimates that put current server capacity at around 10 times those old servers.

 

2015 SWTOR has....

Story = Singular.

 

Actually there are:

8 class stories

too many side quests and bonus series on various planets to count

CZ-198

Oricon

Makeb

Prelude Story Arc

Reven story arc on Rishii and Yavin 4

Ziost

and finally the first 9 chapters of KOTFE

 

PVP = stale (same maps)

(

 

I'll give you this one for free as I'm about as fond of PVP as a fat guy likes the gym.

To this day, I don't understand why they can't figure out how to do cross-server PVP matches. It would, I believe, put PVE servers at a disadvantage against people who get ganked on a daily basis, but it SHOULD resolve the long que times. (probably)

 

Ops = no new ones.(

 

Granted. Another "freebie". And yet, how many are there now? Nine? And they retooled them, so the EV is once again a challenge for 65. The mechanics are the same, but you won't be seeing any Youtube videos of a shadow/sage two-man boss fight for a while.

 

World sync = Cleverly disguised time sink.(

 

Mostly true. The H2 grind for crates will take a while to bore me. However, those bonus series are still waiting for us. A big part of the reason I bypassed them was the fact you actually have to go BACK to the planet several levels later. I NEVER remember to do that, so I've barely scratched the surface on those.

 

KOTFE = Excellent. but to short, and linear. no replayability once both "choices" have been played.

Class Balance = No (has there ever been a time?)

 

I love star wars, but gaming wise. I feel like they are ruining it. its frustrating and sad....

 

TLDR;

 

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened"

 

I feel you Obi.

 

Not sure about the "both" part. We're only through chapter 9 so far, and I recall several cut scene choices telling me "your actions will be remembered".

I also disagree with "too short". Even space-barring every conversation took me several hours to get all the way through.

 

Definitely room for improvement, but light-years away from the stumbling bumbling failure some believe.

 

I will make a prediction. Be looking for a new op or 2 when chapters 10-? rolls out.

Part of the reason they didn't include a new op (from what I've read) was that the same company also released SW: Battlefront at close to the same time, and they didn't want one game to undermine the other.

By the time Chapter 10 rolls out, SW:BF will have time to settle and a new op here, won't take away players from that game.

[Haruen]

Yes.

 

.

[JacksonMo]

I didn't say it doesn't have an impact at all, I said the numbers matter less. There is a formula for these games that some bean counters came up with... 89/10/1. That is to say; 89% of the players pay little or nothing, 10% of the players pay the minimum buy in for full access (subscription ) and 1% pay money hand over fist over that buy in (the whales, patrons, whatever you want to call them. As such raw account numbers carry much less weight than in a 100% subscription game. Heck even the number of subscribers has less influence because of the incredibly disproportionate impact the "whale/patron" has on the bottom line.

 

Now eventually the number of players can drop to a point where that top 11% may be negatively effected BUT that number needs to be pretty low in a genre that has evolved into, largely, people who solo and see other players almost as NPCs and those in guilds. I wish it was like back in the day when I started...EQ, EQ2 etc. There server communities were just that.communities... We used chat to get groups, we used chat to get stuff crafted we had friends list a mile long and you would constantly get tells asking for help, if you wanted to group etc.

 

This has steadily erroded

 

Even the "free" players tend to pay SOMETHING along the way. A few dollars for Preferred status. Maybe a few more for CC's to unlock certain content.

On the other end, not everyone in your "whale" category spends the same amount. I've purchased CC several times, but I wouldn't consider myself a whale. Dolphin maybe? Related to whales. Friendly. But a bit smaller.

If you're gonna do it though, get the $99 one off Amazon. Cheapest price per Cartel Coin you can get, and a free pet.

Edited November 30, 2015 by JacksonMo

[Willowpillow]

@Ghisallo

 

Nice post.

 

I started with UO and I too miss the community as it was back then. Sadly I don't think there is any going back. We had a very different mindset to most players today. Not necessarily better, just different. It was all so new to be in a world with people who had shared interests. I believe that things like reddit and heck even these forums takes the place of in game chat.

 

Mind you some things I don't miss, Corpse runs, no quick travel, huge grinds for rep, faction ect... We put up with a lot back then.

 

I think for this game to get "legs" long term they need to up their game. 22 chapters a year at a minimum if they are going to go hard core story and let PvP and group play slide somewhat.

 

MMOs in general are in an odd place right now. The traditional setup as typified by WoW is getting somewhat stale. However nobody has figured out a decent replacement model yet. I suspect that the technology currently just isn't up to it. When we have decent voice synthesis and a cheap mocap method then I could see story based MMOs just taking off.

[Ghisallo]

Even the "free" players tend to pay SOMETHING along the way. A few dollars for Preferred status. Maybe a few more for CC's to unlock certain content.

On the other end, not everyone in your "whale" category spends the same amount. I've purchased CC several times, but I wouldn't consider myself a whale. Dolphin maybe? Related to whales. Friendly. But a bit smaller.

If you're gonna do it though, get the $99 one off Amazon. Cheapest price per Cartel Coin you can get, and a free pet.

 

Oh agreed there are always nuances that statistics don't cover such as the preferred player but that is a one time purchase. These numbers come from sitting down and watch the long term trends.

[CarlGustaf]

Actually there are:

8 class stories

too many side quests and bonus series on various planets to count

CZ-198

Oricon

Makeb

Prelude Story Arc

Reven story arc on Rishii and Yavin 4

Ziost

and finally the first 9 chapters of KOTFE

 

I started playing this game about 2 weeks after release and I really liked the story the game itself provides. And yes all the things you listed is story but over the time I got throug this and when I level a new alt the traditional way i just skip more or less all cutscene because I know the most of them more or less per heart. I have now around 15 characters at 65, another 10 at atleast 60 and around 10 between 50 and 60. I definitly grinded alot but every singel class story I listend at least once and in this nearly 4 years I'm definitly done with it.

 

So since Makeb (or Ilum if you want so) nearly every singel Story Bioware provides is the same over all Classes. So you hear every singel Cutscene with every singel toon you are playing through. I dont say the story isnt great! But after the 3 or 4 time also the most epic story gets boring.

 

Yes if you are new too the game you have a lot of stuff to do. But even if you are not as long as I am in the game you have since 4.0 only 9 Chapters of KotFE (i played them on 4 or 5 Chars!) whiche is near identical no matter which choices you choose:

 

 

- If you refuse to kneel you will kill Valkorion.

- if you kneel Arcann will do it and also blame you for killing the Emperor!

 

- if you choose to let the Zakuul Gurdian live, Vaylin will kill him and his Companion blames you for it.

- If you kill him his Companion blames you for this.

 

(nearly zero diffrence)

 

 

And thats what I'm supposed too play on every singel Character I create? no thanks.

 

 

but back too Main topic: Yes SWTOR will last at least another Year but Playerbase will rotate in itselfe so we have maybe the same amount of players but at leaste 90% new ones or returning ones the join in for a month and then leave again. But this is probably the best system for Bioware...

[oneupkev]

i think it will be, it's making money and that's what matters

 

even as a sub i've dumped about £45 into CC points this month as i'm kitting out my alts, but i have a monthly gaming budget and don't mind spending on a game i'm enjoying

[Amodin]

More importantly, SWTOR haters have been saying this non-stop since the beginning.

 

Ok, so are you implying that I am a SWTOR hater, or just making a blind assumption?

 

I'm posting here, I obviously have an account for the game, that's the only way I can post.

 

I'll throw in another couple of bones, beings we are on the topic of vague and meaningless posting - I play the game daily, and I've been playing since the first beta players were allowed to participate in. it's a pure fact of the gaming industry. People change their minds, find something better, or play something else. How does stating a blunt fact about something not even directly related specifically to this game exactly make me a hater of the game again?

 

Ah yeah, it doesn't. So then I guess this was just a mere vague, non-meaningful reply to try and 'jab' one at me. Good chuckles. Got me right in the ribs. *laughs and rolls eyes*

[Erasimus]

I believe SWTOR will be around for a few more years at least.

 

However, I also believe most important question is can they change up the game enough to attract and keep additional players. That I can't say. If they don't then it may well be that new content will come at an even slower pace and it will gradually fade into a maintenance only mode for as long as it keeps making money.

 

Having come back, after a year off, for KOTFE it seems obvious to me that a lot less development/maintenance money is being spent than there was during the first couple of years.

Edited November 30, 2015 by Erasimus

[Ghisallo]

@Ghisallo

 

Nice post.

 

I started with UO and I too miss the community as it was back then. Sadly I don't think there is any going back. We had a very different mindset to most players today. Not necessarily better, just different. It was all so new to be in a world with people who had shared interests. I believe that things like reddit and heck even these forums takes the place of in game chat.

 

Mind you some things I don't miss, Corpse runs, no quick travel, huge grinds for rep, faction ect... We put up with a lot back then.

 

I think for this game to get "legs" long term they need to up their game. 22 chapters a year at a minimum if they are going to go hard core story and let PvP and group play slide somewhat.

 

MMOs in general are in an odd place right now. The traditional setup as typified by WoW is getting somewhat stale. However nobody has figured out a decent replacement model yet. I suspect that the technology currently just isn't up to it. When we have decent voice synthesis and a cheap mocap method then I could see story based MMOs just taking off.

 

Ahh corpse runs. Nothing like a 54 man raid wiping and having to have the WHOLE raid run back and reform. Even better losing levels if you wiped enough

 

Lol

 

I think the problem is the following tbh. MMORPGs used to be VERY much a niche game. If you stabilized at 250k subscribers you made a nice profit and it was considered all good. Then along comes WoW. Through the most aggressive marketing and expansion into new markets ever scene by an MMORPG, backed by a solid game, they became a 800 lbs gorilla. The problem is that was a game created by a perfect storm, that storm will never come again.

 

The thing is investors, on seeing that, demand similar performance even if it is a one off. The CEO then orders what the stock holder's asked for. You then get a game with a bloated budget like SWTOR here where, at launch, the CEO said they would only consider it a success if they stabilized with 500k subscribers due to the investment involved.

 

I think, for this genre to survive long term the companies have to embrace the concept of niche again. Embrace that they are an MMORPG and not try to get people from action games and SP games and FPS games (thinking Defiance) etc. If they did this they would have smaller budgets thus lower expected ROIs and then be successful far more consistently imo.

[RogerApple]

I had said before if the game declines further they will have the Pro Nerf Crowd to thank for that. I honestly believe the majority of casuals we're much much happier with the 4.0 thing. This game does have some features that are less then appealing like four different loading screens just to get to your ship. When I came back to this game I was having a blast with my so called over powered companion.

 

I was literally logged in playing all day. Now I can't even log in for more then a few hours. I just do PVP. I honestly and sincerely believe more people were much much happier with 4.0 I think even with the release of the new movie you won't retain a majority of the casuals in the long run. Not that many people are going to want to grind. You are pretty much saying "If you want to dodge the grind and see amazing content at level 60..You have to pay for it"

 

That's exactly what the GTN offers. I could avoid the entire grind of any class by buying that token. People who were so obsess with taking away our over powered. May just be the very same people that may be responsible for the decline looking at it from a business point of view. Majority of casuals are or would been fine with "over powered companion"

[JacksonMo]

Ok, so are you implying that I am a SWTOR hater, or just making a blind assumption?

 

I'm posting here, I obviously have an account for the game, that's the only way I can post.

 

I'll throw in another couple of bones, beings we are on the topic of vague and meaningless posting - I play the game daily, and I've been playing since the first beta players were allowed to participate in. it's a pure fact of the gaming industry. People change their minds, find something better, or play something else. How does stating a blunt fact about something not even directly related specifically to this game exactly make me a hater of the game again?

 

Ah yeah, it doesn't. So then I guess this was just a mere vague, non-meaningful reply to try and 'jab' one at me. Good chuckles. Got me right in the ribs. *laughs and rolls eyes*

 

You're not even the OP, yet you take this as directed SPECIFICALLY AT YOU PERSONALLY?

Seriously, dial back the caffeine a notch.

[Bobs_YourUncle]

Yep, I think they are targeting a player base that will keep them up and running for a while yet. Edited November 30, 2015 by Bobs_YourUncle

[DarkSaberMaster]

When people stop paying their subs and spending their life savings in the CM, then the game will shut down. Anytime before that, nope.

[JeKoCZ]

How is a "single" player story here any different from any other game/mmo? Every mmo has a story (Or it's supposed to have one) which can be played solo or with friends if you have some.

And how is level sync a time sink? I come from a full round of heroics on all the planets and level sync has not affected the time spent on all the planets in the slightest. On Ord Mantell I was able to 1-hit everything and everyone (Even the world boss) at lv60, with level sync this hasn't changed at all. And it's the same on all planets. Mobs hit harder on Voss/Corellia/Belsavis, but they still don't hit hard enough to put you and your precious nerfed/rebuffed companion in any danged whatsoever. On all the other planets is a cakewalk.

This game could survive even with just 1 mega server for pve, 1 for pvp and 1 for rp. Everytime I go on the starting planets there are always a lot of new characters being played. Most are probably alternative characters of someone else as they usually go around with titles and such stuff, but a lot of them are brand new players. And a part of those brand new players stick until to Corellia as I met more than just a few of them in tactical and they were lv40+ f2p players.

Edited November 30, 2015 by JeKoCZ

[omaan]

December 2011 we had 208 servers world wide.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=333171#post255

 

less than 4 years later we have 19 servers world wide. http://www.swtor.com/server-status, some of these are complete ghost towns, and could be shut down. If we get real about it, this game could support maybe 5-10 populated servers. given our currently trajectory will this game last another 1-2 years?

 

I don't even remember a honeymoon period with this game. its just been epic fail and backflip one after the other. they never really got it right for significant periods of time. Its sad because its star wars , and to see it butchered worse than Sony's effort with Galaxies (8 year effort) is astounding.

 

2015 SWTOR has....

Story = Singular.

PVP = stale (same maps)

Ops = no new ones.

World sync = Cleverly disguised time sink.

KOTFE = Excellent. but to short, and linear. no replayability once both "choices" have been played.

Class Balance = No (has there ever been a time?)

 

I love star wars, but gaming wise. I feel like they are ruining it. its frustrating and sad....

 

TLDR;

 

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened"

 

I feel you Obi.

 

If they continue to ignore players problems and issues,yes they will end shortly... I had so many problems with this game (technical,in-game and other) i asked for help but still - no answers. Some of the problems i have solved alone (very difficult but still) and some are still on...

[JacksonMo]

If they continue to ignore players problems and issues,yes they will end shortly... I had so many problems with this game (technical,in-game and other) i asked for help but still - no answers. Some of the problems i have solved alone (very difficult but still) and some are still on...

 

I partially agree with you here, but some folks seem to expect instant solutions to every problem. Over time, they do fix them though. They do seem to take their sweet time on some of them though. Seven months to finally merge servers? Most of my guild at that time had quit, including all but 2 or 3 who earned the distinction of server first Soa kill. (No, I didn't join the guild til a few months later)

[TUXs]

Of course it will...it's Star Wars.

[omaan]

I partially agree with you here, but some folks seem to expect instant solutions to every problem. Over time, they do fix them though. They do seem to take their sweet time on some of them though. Seven months to finally merge servers? Most of my guild at that time had quit, including all but 2 or 3 who earned the distinction of server first Soa kill. (No, I didn't join the guild til a few months later)

 

well for 3 of my problems i haven't recieved a solution for 3 damn month(and iam still waiting)... They are very bad at it.