Companion Change Feedback

[Robocles]

98% of these feedback post saying every thing is fine are all saying how the game is in elder content...

 

Math is hard, I see.

[Robocles]

I noticed the same between a lvl 30 influence (koth) and lvl 14 (lana) influence, both with level 65 characters in similar gear.

 

If I cared to take the time, I'd link the math someone did on this... the difference is roughly 19% from 1 to 50 if I remember correctly.

[Kaytrine]

I noticed the same between a lvl 30 influence (koth) and lvl 14 (lana) influence, both with level 65 characters in similar gear.

 

I have a 50 influence Treek on one character, and a lvl 1 influence Treek on my Sorc.

 

The healing is approx 15% between the two. Its insignificant.

[Neoforcer]

Yes what is truly getting lost is not every person leveling is a elder gamer of swtor some are new and having issue and some elder casuals are having issue all so the i bored with ops to easy, i am bored with questing to easy can say it need to be more challenging. They keep sound like a parrot works for me all good who care about new player only my comp live matter.

[tahol]

98% of these feedback post saying every thing is fine are all saying how the game is in elder content...

 

Well I can say how it is in the beginning of the game, but I know you will not accept the answer so it is useless. But hey, as you so clearly want to get an answer you can dismiss, I can give you one:

 

I played my brand-new Marauder (fury) to lvl15 today. She was lvl13 when we arrived to Dromund Kaas, wearing only the green gear you get in Korriban. I decided I try to do the Mandalorian heroic you can pick before you get to Kaas-city, because BEFORE 4.0 I NEVER COULD DO IT, often not even if I was very much over-leveled. It was that hard for me. Never did early game with God-mode-healers, hadn't any interest to do anything with them (just so you get it). So, I have Vette at healing mode, worst gear you can have (unless you are naked) and I died ONCE because I lagged. Vette didn't come to me, game didn't register my keys and three Mandos annihilated me. So, I revived, finished rest of the Mandos without problems and then killed the Very Big Boss, with him my health dropped maybe to 50%. When Baras sent me to building site, I did the heroic there (where you rig the drill), didn't die once. Edit: have to add that Vettes influence was 3-4, don't remember wich. Because if I don't add it you will come and tell me it must have been 50.

 

So, there is an early-game experience for you. Before 4.0 I never did heroics because they were too hard for me, and I didn't want to group for them. Never missed them either. Now, with nerfed healer, dps, tank. whatever, I do them all, at any level, 10-65, doesn't matter, IN ANY GEAR, clicking icons and standing still. You don't accept this answer, I know it, but that is the truth for you.

 

You people are acting like 4 years of this game has suddenly vanished in thin air. It is all "grind this, too much that, too hard, yadda yadda." I have been in this game for a half a year and at that time i have witnessed so many changes that makes things faster and easier. Quick-time-travel had half an hour cooltime when I played my first character on those angient times half a year ago. I could make a list for you but I don't have to because you know them just as well as I do.

 

Actually I believe they gave a devil a pinky-finger when they begin to make those changes, and now nothing is enough. I will never forgive them that they made the idiotic decision to make companions op in the first place and caused this useless *****torm, pitting people against each other, like this community would have needed any of it more. But you people are exaggerating, lieing and demanding your rear ends to be wiped with silk.

Edited November 20, 2015 by tahol

[LordArtemis]

Well, I appreciate the folks are still posting feedback, and hope that they continue.

[idnewton]

Has there ever been a thread with this post rate?

[StarkHelsing]

Has there ever been a thread with this post rate?

Probably has been one yea... till it was kicked into no mans land for being off topic. Funny thing that, it was sort of like this one.

[idnewton]

Probably has been one yea... till it was kicked into no mans land for being off topic. Funny thing that, it was sort of like this one.

 

I don't know, man... 1243 posts in 29 hours?

Edited November 20, 2015 by idnewton

[Helfen]

Your level: Tested on Various Toons leveling and at 65

Roughly Average Item Rating Appropriate for each piece of content

Discipline: Tested All

Companion: As Above

Companion role: All roles tested

Companion Influence level: 10 - 45

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?): Every H2

Your personal experience while playing this content

 

The re balancing was simply far too extreme. Healing companions cannot keep up with the required damage in cases where multiple strong or above mobs are in a pull. Tank companions are sufficient in many cases but in the case of a number of H2 when done at appropriate level, they are extremely unlikely to survive. The missions on voss can be downright painful when completed while leveling, even wearing complete sets from the HM boxes. The Sith lord boss on Belasavis, due to being immune to control was impossible with my dps scoundrel at the highest level possible on the planet while leveling. The damage output was too great for a tank to survive, ot for a healer to cope with.

 

At max level and high influence these problems are lessened but realistically, these issues will punish new players attempting to complete the content when they encounter it.

 

In my opinion, a nerf was warranted for companions, but should have been no more than half of what was actually applied. As it stands the changes are almost laughably heavy handed.

[Joefjr]

I have a 50 influence Treek on one character, and a lvl 1 influence Treek on my Sorc.

 

The healing is approx 15% between the two. Its insignificant.

 

I have noticed this as well, also Influence/Presence in this current companion model is completely BROKEN for Tank roles

 

Pre 4.0: We could gear up our tank companions, gearing them up with tank stats we increase their mitigation and reduced their damage taken as a whole the better the gear they got.

 

Post 4.0.0:Presence/Influence has ZERO effect on their mitigation, so the ONLY difference between a Rank 1 Tank and Rank 50 Tank is their HP and the meager dps increase, yay they will now live a few seconds longer but what hits for 5K at Rank 1 still hits for 5K at Rank 50.

 

Level Sync is also destroying Tank companions, on a lvl sync planet their armor get dropped down below what a Light armor wearer would have. On Nar Shadda my lvl 65 but lvl synced dps sage has more than double the amount of armor than my companion does???

[ChristienB]

There is one thing that just dawned on me with all of this. Imagine a scenario that no one has mentioned, at least not that I've seen:

 

You level from 1-60 with the pre-expansion companions and invest time to get all their influence up to 50, and then you finish the story at level 60. You click start on chapter 1 for the expansion, and poof, all your level 50 influence companions are gone, you wake up to start over with level 1 influence companions to start it all over again from 61-65.

 

If they actually use the influence system to try to find a compromise, by making companion strength/effectiveness tied much more heavily to influence so as to make them stronger, people would end up with a massive shock when they are not able to use ANY of their "strong" companions in the story from then on (at least until recruited later via the story).

 

In thinking of this, it makes me question not so much if companions should have been nerfed, or if they should be buffed, but if they should have ever had he ability to gear them properly taken away to begin with. Companions were not broken pre 4.0, now they are. I'm not sure there is a fix that can address both sides of this debate, let alone fix having toons at full influence at level 60 and then suddenly not having use of those toons after starting a new story arc, short of making their effectiveness tied to gearing them in some way again. Maybe I am wrong, I don't know. But, if you are used to companions functioning at certain levels, and then you go from that to a whole new group of influence 1 companions, I think this might become a problem down the road.

 

Not trying to flame or say either side is right or wrong here, just realized that companions may be more broken in a way than anyone realized. Yes, we can recruit a few of the ones we had before, and they will return at level 50, but not immediately (until you can access the terminal). I'm not sure that I explained what I'm trying to say here well. I apologize if it doesn't make sense.

[JAOMSYH]

Sorry I flushed all my feedback this morning before work.

 

They don't need or want our feedback, remember they have "METRICS".

 

This is just a ploy to say they tried to get a response from the community.

 

You guys at bioware can go ahead and re-insert your heads back up your a.nu.ses because that's obviously where they belong.

[devincor]

Your level 65

Roughly Average Item Rating 216

Discipline Gunnery Commando

Companion Lana

Companion role Healer

Companion Influence level 22(was 25 by end of test)

Which Mission or Star Fortress are you playing (Solo Mode? Heroic Mode?) Planetary Heroics 1-50 (no ilum or makeb)

Your personal experience while playing this content

I went through all the planetary Heroics (in order). Ord Mantell to Taris was fine. Nar Shaddaa is where I started to notice the healing issues. Tatooine, Alderaan - fine. Balmorra through Corellia - healing issues. The healing issues occur when I end up fighting any combination of 4 strongs/elites or more at once. (Disclaimer before the L2P people chime in - I am more than casual but not hardcore, I raid on occasion, know rotations, have all datacrons (except rishi), played every class, and know how to play my character. ) In certain areas of Heroics you face more than 4 strongs/elites at once, at those time my healing companion fell way short of keeping me in my comfortably healed range (around 40-60% health), often relying on me to go into a white knuckle mode (around 10-20% health). Just to be clear, I was using my heals, shield, CC, and everything at my disposal for those fights. Lana was not keeping up with me. i did die twice on Nar Shaddaa as 1) this was the first place to encounter 4 strongs at once and didn't know if her heals would sustain me and 2) had a bad pathing issue where lana somehow pulled a second group of 4.

 

Are the Heroics doable? Yes. Are they fun? Not really. They were very slow to get thru, especially the latter ones. I would have to stop and heal after fights. Having multiple characters I cannot see torturing myself with the tedium of these. They have become work rather than a challenge. I do think a reduction in effectiveness was needed but went too far, but I am not a math person to tell you what to add back. As it stands now, I don't know if i would keep doing these much longer. I don't think I will try the heroic star fortress solo until I get a companion up to 50 influence.

 

My 2 cents : I do think anytime you do a change that affects gameplay more than 15-20% (I am sure others would say less than that) you really need to put it on the test server first. Be honest in you description of the change (aka "a bit") and let us test it there. Do not put it on live servers for the general population to test, it leads to the backlash you are receiving now, and kinda rightfully deserve.

[Thankar]

I've got a serious question that I was wondering about. They put out lvl60 tokens to 'Here start experiencing KotFE with your free lvl60 toon.' This would have attracted new people who hadn't had the chance to really learn their class. The 4.0 companions would have helped those people work through the content and made it more forgivable, until the HM Star Fortresses. Now we hit 4.0.2 and those companions are batted out of the park by nerf wielding devs. Don't you think that is a bit of a bait and switch and shock to those just coming into the game that will drive them away and leave a bad taste in their mouths? Or do the 'The nerf was needed and perfect crowd' not care at all about expanding the player base? Edited November 20, 2015 by Thankar

[Neoforcer]

Well I can say how it is in the beginning of the game, but I know you will not accept the answer so it is useless. But hey, as you so clearly want to get an answer you can dismiss, I can give you one:

 

i have to agree with some of the stuff you talk about but were i disagree is low level new players. Every one talks about there experience as a player that has been playing since being a founder or i been playing a year. I been saying it a problem with new gamer's not i just picked up my 16 mara in green gear. after a year you know how the game engine works how to play other classes were to find out info. what not would you agree?

 

So in short not every on these forums represent the player base as a hole every one coming here is either and elder game member or well over a years worth of play time. There skill level is pretty high when i on planet i see new player complain they hat the change. as well as casual elder players. I am trying to point out making a blanket statement it is all good with out putting some thought into others game play is not feedback other then for your self. Some are being honest in this say i did not really have a issue but i think it was to much of a nerf for some peoples skill then there is others going screw them it about me me me.

[Joefjr]

Their metrics have to be flawed because of lvl sync, with lvl sync the player is forced to a capped lvl while the missions and mob lvls vastly vary, as do the mobs skills and stats.

[LordArtemis]

Both the companion system and level sync had promise IMO.

 

The idea that you would no longer have to gear companions and they could fill any roll, and you could get level-appropriate gear for old content, regardless of your current level.

 

Must have looked good on paper.

 

In practice, both system are deeply flawed IMO, especially for a game that has been on the market as long as this one.

 

Level sync removed overleveling content, one of the cornerstones of casual play IMO. This was mitigated temporarily by companion strength, but when companions were nerfed as strong as the nerf was the problems with the level sync system became apparent to most IMO.

 

The average player that seeks an easy leveling experience, as they have for so long, now has to face two realities....there is no longer any substantial way to build up companions, and there is no way to outlevel difficult content so it can be soloed without issue.

 

This is a drastic change pushed on the game population after three years of constant play. This system needed much more time in development in order to work out the kinks...this is NOT something that was ready to go live IMO, not by a long shot.

 

The best thing they can do now is either to boost the maximum level for level sync by one level across the board, and/or boost influence/presence effect around 5 to 10 percent and boost healing around 10 to 25 percent.

That will likely still not make everyone happy, but it should mitigate any damage this episode of poor planning and implementation caused IMO.

 

If they leave it as is they do so at their own peril IMO.

Edited November 20, 2015 by LordArtemis

[geschmonz]

Their metrics are flawed because they are based on bugs and wrong scalings.

 

One of the bugs is the weapon-companion-bug.

 

Beside that they should find a "is-it-still-fun-metric", and metrics that are less hardcore-player focused but more focused on the players that really pay them.

[PulseRazor]

Leveling from 40-65 has been easy breezy on a Sniper, a Mercenary, and a Shadow.

 

 

 

At Level 65 Heroic +2 is easy with lvl 25 companions, be they in Damage or Tank role, and certainly as a healer.

 

There are a few Heroic +2's that are challenging for me as any class I have been playing (marksman sniper w/tank, Hatred assassin w/healer, Vengeance Juggernaut w/damage) - Namely: Belsavis with the density of Esh-ka and other stealthed npc's. Its still doable, but I have had to run out of the instance on a few occasions, even with 220/216 gear and a rank 30 companion. I am reluctant to say that this is a problem, because I am sure the problem is that I come to Belsavis from Balmorra, where the Heroics are dead easy.

 

Star Fortress is no harder then Heroic +2 world content.

Heroic Star Fortress:

 

I have attempted Heroic Star Fortress solo on my Vengeance Juggernaut, 25 Healer comp with augmented 208/216 gear. It took a long time to make it to the Exarch, kind of felt like corpse-hopping. I had to rethink the arrangement of my skills on my hotbar, had to use skills that I never really used before like Intercede... basically, it was such a challenge that I had to learn how to play my class and train myself to be more conscious of cooldowns, and to activate skills with more efficiency. (Made myself a special bar just for watching cooldowns to assist my rotation efficiency, then applied this theory to all my toons to great effect) -- But I was no match for the Exarch.

 

On my Hatred Assassin, a 220/216 with a 2 piece stalker bonus. a lvl 30 healer, and lvl 12ish alliance specialists, I was able to earn all 4 alliance specials. The journey to the exarch was a LOT smoother (ie, I didn't die once) , though likely because of what I learned fighting my way through it with my Juggernaut. Truly the most satisfying content I have solo'd to this point, it was epic. -- But again, no match for the Exarch. I want to attribute my failure to my lack of player skill, because the exarch is so powerful I commit my 'panic button' mistakes, which usually amount to a whole lot of button mashing. If the community were to claim that the exarch encounter was 'too hard' - I wouldn't join the debate either way, but I feel like I need a bit more seasoning until I would claim I couldn't do it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by PulseRazor

[chosonman]

I'm a legendary player with 16 toons and every datacron except for fleet. My characters are all in pvp gear. Companions feel like their in a good place. Prior to this is was attacked by a tank with a comp healer in open world and could not kill the comp which is rediculous. I think healing in general is op in this game.

[Vyko]

I've got a serious question that I was wondering about. They put out lvl60 tokens to 'Here start experiencing KotFE with your free lvl60 toon.' This would have attracted new people who hadn't had the chance to really lear ntheir class. The 4.0 companions would have helped those people work through the content and made it more forgivable, until the HM Star Fortresses. Now we hit 4.0.2 and those companions are batted out of the park by nerf wielding devs. Don't you think that is a bit of a bait and switch and shock to those just coming into the game that will drive them away and leave a bad taste in their mouths? Or do the 'The nerf was needed and perfect crowd' not care at all about expanding the player base?

As one of the people you're talking about?

 

Yes. Yes i do feel bait and switched.

 

I would also venture a guess that brand new characters weren't taken into account. As someone with no Legacy/datacron bonuses, low-level content where my characters haven't learned CC/defensive cooldowns yet is a nightmare. My level 20 Shadow is fairly routinely dead in 5-8 GCD's with any group of 3+.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Vyko

[Thankar]

I'm a legendary player with 16 toons and every datacron except for fleet. My characters are all in pvp gear. Companions feel like their in a good place. Prior to this is was attacked by a tank with a comp healer in open world and could not kill the comp which is rediculous. I think healing in general is op in this game.

 

I'm sorry but open world PVP is not a reason to nerf all PVE content.

[Darkwords]

Please stop asking us to do your beta testing for you. It just shows your true disrespect for the savvy of your playerbase and your incompetence at releasing a completed patch. We already beta tested the early access week for you, wasn't that enough? You guys know full well what is up here. It would take one, that's 1, GM, designer, janitor, etc., at your business to complete one SF or +2 heroic to see that the companions were somewhat OP. At that time, a decision should of been made, in fact, I am sure it was... let it go to release and then watch the result. The result was a bait and switch to rival and perhaps surpass even the Great Cartell Slot Machine fiasco.

 

I was enjoying 4.0 even with the expected foibles. The story and follow up were fun and something completely different...I was that is, untill the nerf bat reared it's ugly head once more. It is not that I cannot do those things without OP companions. It is that I enjoyed doing it more WITH them.

 

Stop toying with us by giving us "busy" work while you try and decide a way to deal with this mess by putting it on us with your "test and list the grand fubar" requests. It's demeaning, time wasting and angers me greatly.

[Unrealsaber]

Been playing this game since beta been though it all. Seeing as they stated this expansion will focus more on solo aspects and story centered experience where our companions play a major roll then why do our companions feel like paper weights now? If I wanted this way of playing i would of dismissed my companion before this patch and played that way because that's how it is now companions mean diddly.

 

Were the companions OP yes did they over shadow our own skills quite possibly, but to nerf them down to child like infants was over kill.

 

The devs say all heroics are soloable with medium difficulty, okay that's fine what I see most of the complaining is end game grindy feeling we now have. Where before this patch we could knock out our heroic 2s in a quick amount of time, now it feels like a chore.

 

Can I still solo everything yes but it takes 2 to 4 times as long and no one wants that.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Unrealsaber