A question for those defending the nerf...

[Ghisallo]

They said they want to play the game as it is designed...

 

So instead of dismissing their companion, they complain to change the design... makes sense to me

 

So it wasn't a mistake on BW's part like Eric said and he, obviously with BW's blessing, is lying to us? Why is anybody still posting here then...if I thought a company bonafide lied to me I would be gone, period. I wouldn't even bother posting on their forums because even iof by some miracle they reverted changes they LIED TO ME. I would never give money to some who outright lied to me, it would simply make no sense.

[Quraswren]

It's a fine line that the Devs have never been able to walk upon.. Make everything too easy, people get bored quickly and leave. Make it too difficult, people get frustrated and leave.

 

The Devs in this game have been known to wildly compensate.

 

But it shouldn't be that hard of a thing to do at least in this area.

 

This is story content. Solo content you want damn near everyone doing. Grind content you want everyone doing. It's a massive grind that was created after we had already done the 10K affection grind. This part of the game, solo stuff and companions, didn't need a nerf to it just because it was easy.

 

Easy is why gamers were doing it so much with content thats 4 year old. The powerful companions made it fun. A fun and entertaining experience that doesn't get old because of companions as BW. It' gets old because its a grind, not because companions made it easy as BW seems to think.. Hell, powerful companions made that garbage grind tolerable doing 4 year old content and one new heroic you are expected to run solo anyway.

 

There is so much wrong with BW's reasoning on this nerf it boggles the mind.

[Sarfux]

Could they have been more open about it? Yes. Could they have given us more information before the change happened? Yes (even though they did communicate somewhat). Could they have put it on the PTS and see how people take it? Yes. Should they have kept the companions the way they were because they took out the option to gear them and then bumped up the numbers tremendously to the point where we didn't have to worry too much anymore and we could have fun? Perhaps....

 

Is the game still fun? Yes. Will this kill it? No, but for once, I am actually slightly disappointed in the communication efforts from BioWare for this big change without consulting the game's players first to see how they would take it. I thought the whole reason the companions were very powerful was BECAUSE of the fact that they took away the option to gear them, and the game was changing in several ways, not just one. I'm fine with them having to be nerfed, but it was WAY too much and it just feels like...they don't really do anything anymore.

 

I am still doing my heroics and missions just as I did before. It's just..a little longer and harder. That's all. I did enjoy it a lot before and I'm more of a casual player I guess you can say because I don't go full on hardcore to get gear, I just go along at my pace, so I actually like the companions the way they were. They needed a nerf, but not THIS much. I'm just confused as to why the nerf was so much without REALLY telling us the numbers or anything.

 

God I hope I'm making sense to you all!

 

BioWare, please put the numbers to what they were or close. I really, really, really enjoyed it even more so. I have to be honest. I can see your viewpoint, but just see ours

 

Pssstt..do it for Sarfux

[Draqsko]

Companions have always been sidekicks to our characters. KoTFE broke that. Tuesday's patch fixed that. I support the fix.

 

Hate to tell you but...

 

They got nerfed below sidekick status, they are now officially red shirts.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedShirt

 

They are used to show how the monster works, and demonstrate that it is indeed a deadly menace, without having to lose anyone important. Expect someone to say "He's Dead, Jim", lament this "valued crew member's senseless death", and then promptly forget him.

 

Describes companions to a T now.

[Ghisallo]

Since you haven't tried it yet, let me post some screenshots:

 

http://imgur.com/a/tX5fh

 

There ya go, IL 10 companion, 1k EHPS... Notice how my focused defense healed for more per tick and in total than any one of my companion's heals. And that was only in 208 PvP gear.

 

IL 50 companion is only hitting 1.5k EHPS. They aren't even equal to 25% of what a player could put out in 208 gear.

 

PS It's a strawman to say that people arguing for rolling back the nerf are just looking for a game to play itself. Sorry, we have factual data that shows that companions basically got dismissed for everyone by the devs, because some of you couldn't be arsed to dismiss them yourself for challenge.

 

AND AGAIN you keep posting numbers when I can show screenshots of a 1.2k heal parse in an H2 SF I cleared.

 

NUMBERS don't mean anything it is the RESULT of those numbers that matter and you refuse to address the results at every turn and only point to numbers. That is the definition of disingenuous.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ghisallo

[Jumajin]

Could they have been more open about it? Yes. Could they have given us more information before the change happened? Yes (even though they did communicate somewhat). Could they have put it on the PTS and see how people take it? Yes. Should they have kept the companions the way they were because they took out the option to gear them and then bumped up the numbers tremendously to the point where we didn't have to worry too much anymore and we could have fun? Perhaps....

 

Is the game still fun? Yes. Will this kill it? No, but for once, I am actually slightly disappointed in the communication efforts from BioWare for this big change without consulting the game's players first to see how they would take it. I thought the whole reason the companions were very powerful was BECAUSE of the fact that they took away the option to gear them, and the game was changing in several ways, not just one. I'm fine with them having to be nerfed, but it was WAY too much and it just feels like...they don't really do anything anymore.

 

I am still doing my heroics and missions just as I did before. It's just..a little longer and harder. That's all. I did enjoy it a lot before and I'm more of a casual player I guess you can say because I don't go full on hardcore to get gear, I just go along at my pace, so I actually like the companions the way they were. They needed a nerf, but not THIS much. I'm just confused as to why the nerf was so much without REALLY telling us the numbers or anything.

 

God I hope I'm making sense to you all!

 

BioWare, please put the numbers to what they were or close. I really, really, really enjoyed it even more so. I have to be honest. I can see your viewpoint, but just see ours

 

Pssstt..do it for Sarfux

 

Wait . . . do you just cut and paste posts between threads now? I read that exact, same post from you yesterday.

[Zem_]

Thank you. I've already given him the same answer in two posts, and he still doesn't get it.

 

That's because most of the nerf whiners aren't arguing with you. They're arguing with straw men of their own making.

 

The biggest point they don't get is that NOBODY was arguing for this exact nerf. It was the devs who chose the magnitude here. We were just speaking the truth: Which was that companions made you invulnerable. Once you are invulnerable, nothing you do actually matters to the outcome of the fight. The game is playing itself. You're just helping. YOU were the companion!

 

I actually wanted a difficulty slider that let us pick the companion nerf amount because I knew the crying would be epic if they did an across-the-board nerf. And I wasn't wrong.

[Pirindolo]

And yet you blame forum posts for the change, and ignore Eric's very clear explanation that BioWare watched the Companion output on their own and saw that they were too powerful for the design they wanted them to be.

 

Sorry, guys, BioWare has stated they were not supposed to be that OP. It's done.

 

Hahaha, so convincing!!! Basically, and in other words: "F@#k you, losers.

[Jumajin]

Hate to tell you but...

 

They got nerfed below sidekick status, they are now officially red shirts.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedShirt

 

 

 

Describes companions to a T now.

 

I know what a red shirt is ********.

 

And I've been in the game since Tuesday. I disagree.

[Draqsko]

So it wasn't a mistake on BW's part like Eric said and he, obviously with BW's blessing, is lying to us? Why is anybody still posting here then...if I thought a company bonafide lied to me I would be gone, period. I wouldn't even bother posting on their forums because even iof by some miracle they reverted changes they LIED TO ME. I would never give money to some who outright lied to me, it would simply make no sense.

 

Because I'm paid until February and I'm going to get my money's worth one way or another. If things don't change in this game by then, you won't have to worry about me posting in the forums anymore.

[Jumajin]

and in other words: "F@#k you, losers.

 

At this point, I'm done with pointing out the obvious to you, so yeah, we'll go with that closing statement.

[Pirindolo]

At this point, I'm done with pointing out the obvious to you, so yeah, we'll go with that closing statement.

 

Thank you for being that honest. That was actually what I was pointing at as the main goal of the nerf claimers. With other words, but that.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Pirindolo

[Ghisallo]

Because I'm paid until February and I'm going to get my money's worth one way or another. If things don't change in this game by then, you won't have to worry about me posting in the forums anymore.

 

Good answer. I can be a self righteous SOB though...I wouldn't care about Feb, I would uninstall now and delete the web site from favorites. BUT will you answer my question about why you will not address the actual effect/result of the nerf and only focus on the numbers as in math it is the result that counts?

 

I say this because in doing what you do you get people riled up who have not even experienced the content. They may not it is still doable because they did not do KotFE content yet. They will just assume impossible. So it at least gives the impression of someone who is upset because their personal desire was thwarted and they are just out to sabotage the future out of revenge.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Ghisallo

[branmakmuffin]

You want the truth? Can you handle the truth? I don't think you can, but here it is: all this uproar is based on nothing but claims about Star Fortress. Other Heroics, the ones I have tried since 4.0.2, running with a rank 1 companion, intentionally using poor tactics during fights, I can't even say I notice a difference.

 

As for Star Fortress, I never tried to solo the H2+ pre-4.0.2 and I'm unlikely to do so now, so I can't comment on it.

[Sarfux]

Wait . . . do you just cut and paste posts between threads now? I read that exact, same post from you yesterday.

 

Well those are my exact thoughts on this. And I don't really want to keep stating the same thing over and over again when I feel the same thing.

[LogunOne]

first the 1% crowd trope is completely unsupported. Next BW's financial model is designed around a grind. Not saying "hard" but a grind. The companions didn't simply make the game less than difficult they eliminated the grind that makes their financial model work.

 

Now if they changed their financial model to b2p like GW2 maybe a different game design would make sense. That said GW2 is in NA, the EU, South Korea and China. SWTOR is in only NA and EU (in terms of server hosting for both). GW2 made 73 million in 2014, SWTOR well over 100 million... same for 2013... where SWTOR made over 150 million. So for 2 years running now the players have told BW "a grind makes money" and THIS is what EA and BW care about.

 

Dude the companions opens up the grind to more people, it doesn’t eliminate the grind. This game has …what 6 strongholds to obtain and decorate, a starship, gear out the whazoo to collect and now dozens of companions to obtain and dress up….LOL ….and Bioware adds more crap to collect with every patch.

You could literally play the game for a century and not collect it all….or go broke in the cash shop ..LOL

[SummerRayne]

: Which was that companions made you invulnerable. Once you are invulnerable, nothing you do actually matters to the outcome of the fight. The game is playing itself. You're just helping. YOU were the companion!.

 

You hit the nail on the head with that comment completely.

[Draqsko]

Good answer. BUT will you answer my question about why you will not address the actual effect/result of the nerf and only focus on the numbers as in math it is the result that counts?

 

Because the numbers are the result of the nerf. It's pretty easy to see that companions are no longer even comparable to players, despite Eric's claim in the post explaining the nerf.

 

They are not a bit weaker, they are 75% weaker than a player. Can you not see that? It's simple math. 9k is too much when players are getting 6k. 1.5k is too little when players are getting 6k. Players didn't get nerfed with companions, yet they claim that they want them to be comparable if slightly weaker. 75% is not slightly.

[HarleysRule]

Hate to tell you but...

 

They got nerfed below sidekick status, they are now officially red shirts.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RedShirt

 

 

 

Describes companions to a T now.

 

4.0 *you* were the Red Shirt. There is a happy median...the only question is if BW can find it. Why does it have to be God mode or hard mode?

[Pirindolo]

You hit the nail on the head with that comment completely.

 

And then why not simply disable a couple of powerful abilities to make it underpowered enough? Why not?

Abilities of companios can be toggled ON and OFF.

[Ghisallo]

Dude the companions opens up the grind to more people, it doesn’t eliminate the grind. This game has …what 6 strongholds to obtain and decorate, a starship, gear out the whazoo to collect and now dozens of companions to obtain and dress up….LOL ….and Bioware adds more crap to collect with every patch.

You could literally play the game for a century and not collect it all….or go broke in the cash shop ..LOL

 

by grind I mean time to complete. That is what MMO companies do. They say "okay we need to make the content so that it takes the average player X amount of time to complete." The grind here was obviously getting to the point you could clear the H2 SF solo... which I cleared in a mix of 192/190 and 186 the day I finished the story because the companions were so dang powerful. The stronghold stuff, character decorations, those are nice but niche as well. That is not the grind that governs how a dev house sets about designing the playable content which is the life blood of an MMO.

[Quraswren]

And yet you blame forum posts for the change, and ignore Eric's very clear explanation that BioWare watched the Companion output on their own and saw that they were too powerful for the design they wanted them to be.

 

Sorry, guys, BioWare has stated they were not supposed to be that OP. It's done.

 

BW was silly enough to let it go for month and month during beta telling closed players its fine and suddenly they needed a nerf a month into live. Sorry to break it to you. If you were in the months and months of closed beta you know companions were supposed to be that powerful.

 

I hate to break it to you but this nerf was a quick design change because people were finishing the grind to quickly for them.

Just like with story at launch, they underestimated (AKA read the data/metrics wrong again) on how quickly gamers will consume content. They turned a 10K grind into a 250K grind and expected it to carry this little to no content expansion into January or whenever they can roll on something longer lasting then the short story.

 

Gamers once again surprised the hell out of them and how to you slow down gamers? You hit them with a nerf that affects every single gamer in SWTOR. The companions.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Quraswren

[Ghisallo]

Because the numbers are the result of the nerf. It's pretty easy to see that companions are no longer even comparable to players, despite Eric's claim in the post explaining the nerf.

 

They are not a bit weaker, they are 75% weaker than a player. Can you not see that? It's simple math. 9k is too much when players are getting 6k. 1.5k is too little when players are getting 6k. Players didn't get nerfed with companions, yet they claim that they want them to be comparable if slightly weaker. 75% is not slightly.

 

Stop being obtuse you know what I mean. The % of a nerf is only as important as the effect it has on game play. Yes Companions are A LOT less powerful BUT with that companion I can still solo the H2 SF withoput the alliance buffs as is the intended FIRST step of their design, what EFFECT did the nerf have? This is the issue you keep dodging.

 

btw I appreciate you raise the numbers, most don't bother. My only issue is numbers are about analysing the actual effect they have on a specific problem. In this case the problem is "how is game play practically effected?" You post the numbers but do not address the problem/question the numbers are designed to effect.

[Jadescythe]

Don't evade the question.please.

 

You wanted more challenge? dismiss the comp.

You wanted more challenge playing a companiomn? set companion in passive mode

You wanted more challenge playing a companion that was doing something? Disable the main healing/dpsing abilities of the companion.

 

No, you didn't want any of these options. Why?

 

There are plenty of games that allow you to complete content without actually doing any work, but the devs have made it clear that was never the intention of this game. Which is why they don't require players to find roundabout ways to make the game difficult by disabling the basic features. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with games that play themselves, just that it has never been this game and Eric's post from two days ago made it clear that the last month, companion power levels were above what they wanted the game to be.

 

You can make the game less challenging for yourself if you choose to and the best part is, it actually involves you taking advantage of systems in the game rather than disabling features as you are asking others to do. Get higher level companions, get better gear, level alts for more bonuses, etc. If the game remains as easy as it was, players who want more than faceroll content are actually PENALIZED for leveling up their Alliance or improving their character's gear because the content was already capable of being completed by their level 1 companion. Companion power levels really aren't in a bad place right now, players are just upset because of the magnitude of the difference from KotFE launch to today.

[SummerRayne]

And then why not simply disable a couple of powerful abilities to make it underpowered enough? Why not?

Abilities of companios can be toggled ON and OFF.

 

 

Again, you are asking the players themselves to disable core aspects of the game and this is somehow rational logic to you?

 

In reality here though, this little companion battle is ridiculous. It is up to the developer to somehow find that balance, NOT the player's. Now granted, it is virtually impossible to please everyone but I do believe Bioware is trying to find that balance. They realized the companions were way too OP so they nerfed them. Chances are they are still striving for that balance and will give them a slight buff in the future. That is just my guess by the way.