The silence from BW is a slap in the face to it's angry consumers

[mrsrachelm]

If you talking about - Companion Nerf, Who is leaving/unsubbing poll - tread they not deleted the put this thread from General to Off-Topic. Yep for BW this unsub wave is kinda off topic.

 

So they basically stuffed in no-man's land even though ti was on GENERAL forums? What does that tell you?

[RogerApple]

We need an answer.

[Ksen]

So they basically stuffed in no-man's land even though ti was on GENERAL forums? What does that tell you?

Yep... it's kinda telling. Well i already unsub today. So now i just sad really.

[Beohbe]

So they basically stuffed in no-man's land even though ti was on GENERAL forums? What does that tell you?

 

That you were wrong about them deleting it?

[Elly_Dawn]

the longtime posters tried to warn those that were screaming "Nerf Now, Comps OP" of what would happen if they did indeed get that nerf, but would they listen, no... they were warned that with Bioware nerf doesn't mean shave 5-10% off, no with Bioware it means Nuke it into the ground... lesson is; be careful of what you wish for, you may just get it, and in spades...

[mrsrachelm]

We need an answer.

 

And we *deserve* an answer.

[Deamandred]

I also just found out, and confirmed it by actually looking for it, that they DELETED a post that was several hundred responses long of people saying they were unsub'g because of the nerf. They CENSORED those who said they were going to unsub! Now THAT tells me they did read the forums but it also tells me a whole lot more....

 

Your surprised. There has been quite a few posts censored recently.

[mrsrachelm]

That you were wrong about them deleting it?

 

Yes, hence the correction. They merely silenced it by throwing into no-man's land and off the General forum because yeah....in "general" forum talking about an update and how it effects you is just never done.

[Jeronas]

What are they going to say beyond what Eric already did 24 hours later? Eric made it clear companions were never supposed to that powerful out of the box and that, while he didn't use the word grind, a bit of a grind was part of the plan. This is further born out by looking at the weeklies, Alliance faction, H2 SF mechanics etc. That said...

 

Most of the feedback only amounts to "this sucks" or "I can't do this" with no details as to what "this" maybe, what their gear or class is, what they companion affection was etc. That is why I started a thread asking for people to provide this info because only with that info do they have a prayer of figuring out what the problem is. So if you don't give data for them to use as a starting point all they could say is what Eric already said again, but perhaps more bluntly... Something akin to "sorry, we understand that people are not happy with having to grind now, it feels tedious to them after flying through the content but this grind was always intended. We are an MMORPG after all and we need to keep you from getting that carrot at the end of the stick for as long as possible." Would that go over well? I don't think so myself.

 

I don't know if you are hoping/expecting BW to say "we are sorry, we hear you we are reverting them back" but I hope not because they are not going to say it and it has nothing to do with pride. The grind that the reversion of companions has revealed was always part of their plan. That grind is how they plan on keeping players playing in the dead space between chapter releases. They now find themselves in a lose/lose scenario because of their rushed and sloppy release. They will likely lose players over this change, however they were going to lose players to boredom if they didn't do it. I know players complaining about the reversion who had, before it, said "I don't know how long I am going to stay because I am sure steam rolling heroics I'll get old at some point. In the end it will just be people debating in hindsight, if the change did more or less damage in the long run than doing nothing. It seems that BW decided that doing nothing was more dangerous.

 

No one would have mind if they actually "TUNED" the companions down a little! Say with 10% or so as start.

 

NOT a whopping 75-80% sledgehammer kneejerk action, rendering companions even more useless than they were before patch 4.0 !

 

They have been nerfed so hard now, that ranking them up now is TOTALLY POINTLESS! People have already shown that a rank 50 companion right now is hardly better than a rank 10!

 

If they want the companions to be like they are now today after patch 4.0.2, then that is just TOTAL ********! I mean why the hell did they even bother overhauling the companion system in the first place then?

As in it´s current state, I much rather have the old companion system back, where with some effort and credits you could make something decent out of your companions! Not to mention that they were unique!

 

Reverting the patch is EXACTLY the right thing to do right now! Revert it back and put it on the PTS with better tweaks and do some ACTUAL testing for a change!

 

I am getting sick and tired from devs dropping crap on us on Live servers, paying 15 bucks a month.... to BETA test their FAIL patches on Live servers!!

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jeronas

[Lesliey]

Keep voting with your wallet and unsub! It´s all you can do!

 

If enough people rage quit and unsub, than the financial impact will be felt up higher up the chain in Bioware and Eric will be forced to roll back the patch!

At it surely seems he has ZERO apathy with the playerbase, totally clueless in math (as 75-80% nerf is not an incremental change in my book! ) and is now hiding somewhere in a corner, UNWILLINGLY to admit he screwed up!

 

Yep this^^ Don't vote, don't make a rage post, just hit 'unsub button and fill in the reason why your leaving, BW loves to analisy data, let them look at the unsub ones!

[Zyphus]

So, you wanted feedback. You are getting it in spades and with very few exceptions, mainly those being the elite hard-core gamers who raid etc, the player base is NOT HAPPY AT ALL with the drastic extent of the companion nerf. There are threads galore and even people posting in the "Suggest Box" area about it as well.

 

What kind of response have we the community gotten? Dead silence. No acknowledgment that they even know we're upset or care. Total and complete silence. Are you ignoring us, BW? Not all of us are on Twitter, you know. I hope those that are are letting BW know of their displeasure. I am considering making a Twitter account for the first time simply to be heard by BW because it sure seems like the community isn't being heard on the forums right now. Or, maybe we are but they simply don't want to acknowledge that they screwed the pooch on this one.

 

Bw, you did a complete turn around from you promise of making the game casual player friendly. You lured us in, made us love the game again to the point many of us encouraged our friends and family to give it another go or even a first-time go and then this is what you do?

 

And now you won't even let us know you hear us? That really speaks volumes.

 

I unsub'd yesterday after playing with the nerfed companions to see if it was as bad as people said (and it is) but as I bought a 6-month sub time, you still have four months left to fix this before I'm gone for good. That's a very generous amount of time. I convinced my husband to come back tot he game. He sub'd only a couple weeks ago and was LOVING the game. He has no legacy thus no perks. Now he's mad because he feels cheated...and he's not wrong. He likely won't continue his sub either if this isn't fixed in a reasonable amount of time.

 

Bottom line: YOU NEED TO TALK TO US! YOU NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE PROBLEM! Then you need to FIX IT and say you are going to fix it and focus on fixing it as a top priority. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

They only understand money. Don't give them anymore. Simple as that.

[Tarkashae]

They have been nerfed so hard now, that ranking them up now is TOTALLY POINTLESS! People have already shown that a rank 50 companion right now is hardly better than a rank 10!

 

If they want the companions to be like they are now today after patch 4.0.2, then that is just TOTAL ********! I mean why the hell did they even bother overhauling the companion system in the first place then?

 

I wonder this as well. Seems like disconnect somewhere.

[Haruen]

The "angry customers" you talk about aren't angry for rational reasons. They're just angry. Why talk to someone throwing a hissy fit? It just encourages their behaviour. If you have a rational message to get out, try that. No one wants to talk to a screaming child.

[StarkHelsing]

The "angry customers" you talk about aren't angry for rational reasons. They're just angry. Why talk to someone throwing a hissy fit? It just encourages their behaviour. If you have a rational message to get out, try that. No one wants to talk to a screaming child.

 

But there are plenty of people asking this in a calm manner, wanting answers or something and they to are being ignored. I just don't understand the silence, they're in hot water. It's not just these forums, twitter is ablaze, the MMO website that reviews these things is screeching at them. They're getting bad publicity all around.

 

And boy, was it a terrible time to do it. It's like they want Bethesda to have all the money.

[Ksen]

The "angry customers" you talk about aren't angry for rational reasons. They're just angry. Why talk to someone throwing a hissy fit? It just encourages their behaviour. If you have a rational message to get out, try that. No one wants to talk to a screaming child.

 

Well.. You see with this approach this as you say screaming child just unsub and take his money elsewhere.

[Ghisallo]

No one would have mind if they actually "TUNED" the companions down a little! Say with 10% or so as start.

 

NOT a whopping 75-80% sledgehammer kneejerk action, rendering companions even more useless than they were before patch 4.0 !

 

They have been nerfed so hard now, that ranking them up now is TOTALLY POINTLESS! People have already shown that a rank 50 companion right now is hardly better than a rank 10!

 

If they want the companions to be like they are now today after patch 4.0.2, then that is just TOTAL ********! I mean why the hell did they even bother overhauling the companion system in the first place then?

As in it´s current state, I much rather have the old companion system back, where with some effort and credits you could make something decent out of your companions! Not to mention that they were unique!

 

Reverting the patch is EXACTLY the right thing to do right now! Revert it back and put it on the PTS with better tweaks and do some ACTUAL testing for a change!

 

I am getting sick and tired from devs dropping crap on us on Live servers, paying 15 bucks a month.... to BETA test their FAIL patches on Live servers!!

 

The thing is their change is not a flat %, its all over the gosh darn map. Not just companion affection but player level and presence all have an impact on it. Simply tuning things down by 10%, then 15% etc would not have come close to accomplishing the goal of enforcing their grind and it is a goal they had to achieve in the window of the movie launch.

 

Tbh while I think some tweeks may be necessary I think most of them need to be in the retuned H2 encounters now. This guy is doing a pretty good thread breaking it down H2 by H2... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=854538. From reading that it looks like the companions are in a decent place but that the content is inconsistent.

 

Reverting it and putting it on PTS would only delay the inevitable and EA doesn't brook delays, they fire people. I say this because if you read the posts of those upset that are the most honest (and understand the mechanical structure of the expac) it's not that they believe that the H2s will always be undoable by them. Heck most of them are doable even now. They are upset because there is now a grind and they don't want a grind. The two that come immediately to mind is one who comes right out and says that BW should make this a SP game and do away with the MMO stuff and another who says simply that they came here for a TOR game, not an MMO that to them "feels like work."

 

The problem is that the design plan for this expac is for there to be a grind. How does reverting the change and putting it on PTS address this core issue?

[RogerApple]

They should really do more.

[Jeronas]

The thing is their change is not a flat %, its all over the gosh darn map. Not just companion affection but player level and presence all have an impact on it. Simply tuning things down by 10%, then 15% etc would not have come close to accomplishing the goal of enforcing their grind and it is a goal they had to achieve in the window of the movie launch.

 

Tbh while I think some tweeks may be necessary I think most of them need to be in the retuned H2 encounters now. This guy is doing a pretty good thread breaking it down H2 by H2... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=854538. From reading that it looks like the companions are in a decent place but that the content is inconsistent.

 

Reverting it and putting it on PTS would only delay the inevitable and EA doesn't brook delays, they fire people. I say this because if you read the posts of those upset that are the most honest (and understand the mechanical structure of the expac) it's not that they believe that the H2s will always be undoable by them. Heck most of them are doable even now. They are upset because there is now a grind and they don't want a grind. The two that come immediately to mind is one who comes right out and says that BW should make this a SP game and do away with the MMO stuff and another who says simply that they came here for a TOR game, not an MMO that to them "feels like work."

 

The problem is that the design plan for this expac is for there to be a grind. How does reverting the change and putting it on PTS address this core issue?

 

The entire leveling experience, you know.... the one that was supposed to be improved with 4.0... is down the drain now!

Were are back to square one, where leveling up on planets is a boring chore again, spending ages going through hordes of trash mobs, spending more time meditating (down time between fights) than actually playing the game!

 

That was the sole reason people quit for! and what they fixed with patch 4.0! And now with patch 4.0.2 they made it even worse than how it was before Patch 4.0 !

 

In all honesty! I rather have the companions reverted back to 4.0, XP slashed in half and being forced to do side missions again. At least it will still be fun and not a total chore!

As I never minded doing all the missions on the planet! That was never the issue! It was the chore of constant downtimes that was the issue!

Patch 4.0 with stronger companions fixed that! Making you kill all those trash mobs faster, feeling like a "real" jedi hero for once and actually having FUN leveling up!

 

So if they want a grind to be in place, especially in the expansion! Then nerfing the companions into oblivion is NOT the right answer! Instead.... look at XP gains first instead!

 

As it´s the XP gains that are the REAL problem! I was already level 65 on my new character when I started the KotFE storyline on my newly leveled Jedi Guardian. ( I only did planetary story and main storyline, same with Hutt and Revan expacs, before starting KotFE. No heroics, no space missions, no side missions... just a few )

Edited November 19, 2015 by Jeronas

[Trythios]

They have been nerfed so hard now, that ranking them up now is TOTALLY POINTLESS! People have already shown that a rank 50 companion right now is hardly better than a rank 10!

 

Yeah I wondered that last night so went and did Makeb H2+. Duo'd up because I find doing H2's as a Tank a pain in the arse. GF used a rank 50 companion in healing mode and for testing sake I used a rank 24, also set to healing.

 

The healing ticks of the rank 24 was 900 and the ticks from the rank 50 was 940-950. Totally worth the sheer amount of gifts needed to bring them to 50 ? You decide..

[mrsrachelm]

The healing ticks of the rank 24 was 900 and the ticks from the rank 50 was 940-950. Totally worth the sheer amount of gifts needed to bring them to 50 ? You decide..

 

That's just obscene. I've always said there needed to be a tweak, sure. But this is absolutely crazy. My poor husband has no legacy yet so...yeah...very painful slog.

[Draqsko]

The "angry customers" you talk about aren't angry for rational reasons. They're just angry. Why talk to someone throwing a hissy fit? It just encourages their behaviour. If you have a rational message to get out, try that. No one wants to talk to a screaming child.

 

Here's rational...

 

Level 65 healer companions now heal for 1.2k to 1.5k ehps, worse if you don't have all the crons, legacy buffs, and influence.

 

Level 60 healer companions, in the gear they got from Yavin and Zoist storylines, were healing for 3k ehps before 4.0.

 

Sorry but you are wrong, a 50% reduction in ability when they are 5 levels higher is a very rational reason to be angry. Anyone with any kind of common sense would admit the nerf is overboard. They are weaker than they were before the xpac was released, despite the fact that they are 5 levels higher. That is not acceptable in any rational sense.

[RogerApple]

That's just obscene. I've always said there needed to be a tweak, sure. But this is absolutely crazy. My poor husband has no legacy yet so...yeah...very painful slog.

 

So you were one of the people complaining for a nerf. Are you happy with what you got. Do you wish maybe you hadn't been so vocal about a nerf. Well you wanted a "tweak" those like you are the reason for this nerf.

[Ghisallo]

The entire leveling experience, you know.... the one that was supposed to be improved with 4.0... is down the drain now!

Were are back to square one, where leveling up on planets is a boring chore again, spending ages going through hordes of trash mobs, spending more time meditating (down time between fights) than actually playing the game!

 

That was the sole reason people quit for! and what they fixed with patch 4.0! And now with patch 4.0.2 they made it even worse than how it was before Patch 4.0 !

 

In all honesty! I rather have the companions reverted back to 4.0, XP slashed in half and being forced to do side missions again. At least it will still be fun and not a total chore!

As I never minded doing all the missions on the planet! That was never the issue! It was the chore of constant downtimes that was the issue!

Patch 4.0 with stronger companions fixed that! Making you kill all those trash mobs faster, feeling like a "real" jedi hero for once and actually having FUN leveling up!

 

So if they want a grind to be in place, especially in the expansion! Then nerfing the companions into oblivion is NOT the right answer! Instead.... look at XP gains first instead!

 

As it´s the XP gains that are the REAL problem! I was already level 65 on my new character when I started the KotFE storyline on my newly leveled Jedi Guardian. ( I only did planetary story and main storyline, same with Hutt and Revan expacs, before starting KotFE. No heroics, no space missions, no side missions... just a few )

 

Stop for a second. I find it hard from your post to tell if you are a genuinely new player, recently returned or existing player. The point of the streamlining was NOT to make the content it self roll over... It was to make it, basically, so you could level by just doing the story. I asked if you were an existing pkayer because then making 12xp universal woukd have meaning for you. That and also making leveling SM FP tactical for the same purpose, to have you only address the class story, was all they promised.

 

Knights of the Fallen Empire also offers players an enhanced experience of the first 50 levels of Star Wars: The Old Republic which have been refined to put more focus on a player-driven story arc.

That was the only thing they ultimately promised. They never said trash mobs would not be a little tedious or that you would not have to meditate between kills. Essentially all they said was "dont worry about the side quests!!!!!".

 

This is actually my biggest complaint with BWs colossal screw up. Their screw up created a false impression. Their pure marketing statements are rather non-specific so unless you read the notes from all the cantinas and/or interviews their marketing statements can be interpreted in a multitude of ways. When the companions were as strong as they were the assumption was that leveling was supposed to be mechanically easier, when it was only supposed to be faster like 12xp also accomplished.

 

As for your last part I have yet to level a toon under the knew rules BUT if you are level 65 by KoTFE just by doing the class story, I too see that as an issue. However that reveals a possible point of misunderstand between us. When I speak of grind I am not speaking of time to kill mobs, I speak of how many times you have to pick up a quest that says " kill those mobs" to get the rewards that give you the power to move to the next challenge. This is where companion power comes into play, in KotFE, not leveling of course.

 

The companion power issue at this stage had two effects in trivializing the H2s. First it allowed people to steam roll the ones they were intended to be able to do as soon as they completed the story and gain access to the weeklies. There is a difference between "doable" and "trivial" to a dev. It next allowed people to do the H2 Star Fortresses that people were NOT intended to do until they had done some grinding for gear, affection and alliance reputation.

[Ghisallo]

Here's rational...

 

Level 65 healer companions now heal for 1.2k to 1.5k ehps, worse if you don't have all the crons, legacy buffs, and influence.

 

Level 60 healer companions, in the gear they got from Yavin and Zoist storylines, were healing for 3k ehps before 4.0.

 

Sorry but you are wrong, a 50% reduction in ability when they are 5 levels higher is a very rational reason to be angry. Anyone with any kind of common sense would admit the nerf is overboard. They are weaker than they were before the xpac was released, despite the fact that they are 5 levels higher. That is not acceptable in any rational sense.

 

You are forgetting affection. Our companions have essentially been "reset" so someone coming in with a "free level 60" is not "behind.". I did indeed see those heal numbers with my level 18 companion. I have one data from (too lazy to get em, was guild summoned to that one)... My presence is a little over 1000, not sure what effect that has. I still completed an H2 Star Fortress and if need be can link a screen shot of the starparse to prove it. So yes the number is A LOT lower than what it was pre-nerf but I can still do the hardest H2 currently in the game... Oh and without the buffs from the gizmos because I was lazy about getting Alliance Rep.

[Draqsko]

You are forgetting affection. Our companions have essentially been "reset" so someone coming in with a "free level 60" is not "behind.". I did indeed see those heal numbers with my level 18 companion. I have one data from (too lazy to get em, was guild summoned to that one)... My presence is a little over 1000, not sure what effect that has. I still completed an H2 Star Fortress and if need be can link a screen shot of the starparse to prove it. So yes the number is A LOT lower than what it was pre-nerf but I can still do the hardest H2 currently in the game... Oh and without the buffs from the gizmos because I was lazy about getting Alliance Rep.

 

I'm not forgetting the affection.

 

IL 50 companions are healing for 1.5k ehps... tops.

 

That is HALF of what they were at level 60 in Yavin gear. Please just stop and go parse it yourself if you don't believe me.